Why did Pat Tillman Die?

FSNTAC · Post by **FSNTAC** » 13 Feb 2012, 19:58

Why did Pat Tillman Die? Anyone know? anyone believe the U.S. media when it was said he died in a "friendly" fire incident?

FSNTAC · Post by **FSNTAC** » 13 Feb 2012, 20:27

He saw the bombs kill many innocents, he saw the snipers, kill like they pick their teeth. He saw the U.S. troops protect the poppies. :-(
He was a all-American Pro Footbal player. He was a whistle blower. Just didn't get the chance.
May Jesus Bless Pat Tillman.

Comments welcome....

nrv216 · Post by **nrv216** » 13 Feb 2012, 20:49

I don't know much about his story but I just read over what was on ( :facepalm: ) wikipedia real quick. Crazy stuff. I guess I would have to know more about his "whistle blowing" to really understand why the gov would want him dead. The whole missing journal thing is messed up though.

nrv216

flyingirish04 · Post by **flyingirish04** » 13 Feb 2012, 22:40

By posting this BS you dishonor all the soldiers that served over there. Let me tell you something, we burned the poppies, we didn't guard them. Quit regurgitating this Loose Change bull. Snipers kill because it is their duty and they do it legally and within the tenants of just war. As to the bomb droppers. Mistakes are made, they are mistakes, and they are part of war. War is hell.

Tillman's death was terrible, but it was a mistake, and blue on blue action occurs in a warzone. And the journal thing is perfectly normal. You are not entitled to write a journal, and if you do, it can and will be seized for a multitude of reasons, one of which has to do with OPSEC and denying the enemy exploitation of opinions into propaganda. The military is not a democracy, you don't have all the inalienable rights that a civilian does. Just read the UCMJ.

Get a clue, stop posting this anti-military, tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theory nonsense. 9/11 wasn't an inside job either, as you have in the past tried to say.

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » 13 Feb 2012, 23:00

:agree:

war is hell, pure and simple....those of us that have gone thru it or parts of it....understand why it is. show me anything in life where it is a 100% certanity of being right, the real world has way too many variables......chaos (ever hear the phase "No campaign plan survives first contact with the enemy"? it's very true......)

insurgencies are even worst.........

Irish has it right, rather than regurgitate stuff, do your research and vet your sources....

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers.
For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother...."
William Shakespeare, Henry V

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » 13 Feb 2012, 23:02

nrv216 wrote:I don't know much about his story but I just read over what was on ( :facepalm: ) wikipedia real quick. Crazy stuff. I guess I would have to know more about his "whistle blowing" to really understand why the gov would want him dead. The whole missing journal thing is messed up though.

nrv216

there is only one problem with wikipedia, no one vets the data, anyone can enter misleading or wrong data (which if you are going to grad school they will not accept any references that use wukipedia)

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers.
For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother...."
William Shakespeare, Henry V

Post by **Rapier1772** » 14 Feb 2012, 00:58

Lobo wrote:which if you are going to grad school they will not accept any references that use wukipedia

Not just grad school - I don't know of anyone who will allow you to quote wikipedia on a school paper

firestorm248 · Post by **firestorm248** » 14 Feb 2012, 10:20

Rapier1772, I havent heard of any college that accepts wikipedia either, hell i got crap from a teacher for mentioning Wikileaks because she thought it was the same thing. :facepalm:

Irish, we are 100% in agreement on this. :thumb:

P.S. i hate when people start quoting Loss Change, its so full of $h!# on just about every topic it covers.

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » 14 Feb 2012, 19:16

Rapier1772 wrote:
Lobo wrote:which if you are going to grad school they will not accept any references that use wukipedia
Not just grad school - I don't know of anyone who will allow you to quote wikipedia on a school paper

*DOH!* it's been over 10 years since I did under grad, of course my degree for that was in computer science...really hard to wikipeda stuff in that....of course back then there was no wiki leaks and before you ask, yes we used chisel and stone tablets :lmao:

Heresy by thought
Heresy by word
Heresy by deed
Heresy by action
Four! There are four counts of heresy

RockyMtRecon · Post by **RockyMtRecon** » 14 Feb 2012, 22:22

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUCyr3B3IlM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators. The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away."

Whatever happened, it was mishandled "again" by those that should have more honor than to lie about it.

firestorm248 · Post by **firestorm248** » 15 Feb 2012, 05:28

RockyMtRecon wrote:"The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away."

You fail to mention that a M249 can do a pattern like that, ya i would say it was mishandled but I still believe it was friendly fire. As for claiming he saw [profanity] in Afgan, the conspiracy nut crowd loves to claim people did and saw stuff….of course after their dead and it can’t be verified.

nrv216 · Post by **nrv216** » 16 Feb 2012, 18:26

Lobo wrote:
nrv216 wrote:I don't know much about his story but I just read over what was on ( :facepalm: ) wikipedia real quick. Crazy stuff. I guess I would have to know more about his "whistle blowing" to really understand why the gov would want him dead. The whole missing journal thing is messed up though.

nrv216
there is only one problem with wikipedia, no one vets the data, anyone can enter misleading or wrong data (which if you are going to grad school they will not accept any references that use wukipedia)

That is exactly why I used the facepalm smiley to show that my "research" was half-assed and cursory at best. Believe it or not, I got my Bachelor's in Criminal Justice from Loyola University Chicago where they also do not allow wikipedia to be used as a source for any research. I am a staunch supporter of our men and women in the military and the US efforts in both Iraq and Afganistan. I do not doubt that some shady stuff goes on over there, heck, I know guys who have come back and told me about stuff they saw over there. However, like someone else said, war is hell and I do not blame people for the mistakes they make when under extreme stress and physical and mental duress. Do I find the discussion of conspiracy theories entertaining? YES! Do I think that my discussion of any conspiracy theory is disrespectful to those who have served? NO! I simply like to hear all angles of any situation whether I agree with them or not. For any of those who were offended by my participation in this thread I think you misread me.

nrv216

FSNTAC · Post by **FSNTAC** » 27 Feb 2012, 22:57

I am not disrespecting active duty members or vets. That is not my intent. I am trying to share the reason we went to war, and that was to protect oil and gas pipelines mainly running to China. And to protect the (protect them from the Taliban nonetheless).

If you disagree, what do you beleive the reason for th Afghan war was?

I am prepared for a lot of "literal" [profanity].

FSNTAC · Post by **FSNTAC** » 27 Feb 2012, 23:02

I think by saying that Tillmans death was a mistake, you reveal your ignorance to all, because you do not know, and neither do I. The truth is some people do know, and they are not talking.

Post by **MrSlippyFist** » 28 Feb 2012, 07:42

FSNTAC wrote:I am not disrespecting active duty members or vets. That is not my intent. I am trying to share the reason we went to war, and that was to protect oil and gas pipelines mainly running to China. And to protect the (protect them from the Taliban nonetheless).

If you disagree, what do you beleive the reason for th Afghan war was?

I am prepared for a lot of "literal" [profanity].

Show me these oil and gas pipelines to China. As a professional in the energy industry I'm curious as to where they are and where they originate. I think you may have been misinformed somewhere along the line more than once.

As far as Tillman goes, you got one thing right, we weren't there. So what good does speculation do? None, let him rest in peace.

toyslr · Post by **toyslr** » 28 Feb 2012, 09:49

First off Pat Tillman was an atheist so "May Jesus Bless Pat Tillman" doesn't really fit!
If this happened, I'm sure he wasnt the only one to see it. So why just him?? He dies because
he split off from the main force and was in a bad position with out communications and scared
troops. They took minimal fire and were "itchy" on the trigger to respond, seeing people on the high
grounf they believed to be enemy, troops engaged and he did die a heroe for standing up and screaming for them to stop.

flyingirish04 · Post by **flyingirish04** » 28 Feb 2012, 11:55

MrSlippyFist wrote:
FSNTAC wrote:I am not disrespecting active duty members or vets. That is not my intent. I am trying to share the reason we went to war, and that was to protect oil and gas pipelines mainly running to China. And to protect the (protect them from the Taliban nonetheless).

If you disagree, what do you beleive the reason for th Afghan war was?

I am prepared for a lot of "literal" [profanity].

Show me these oil and gas pipelines to China. As a professional in the energy industry I'm curious as to where they are and where they originate. I think you may have been misinformed somewhere along the line more than once.

As far as Tillman goes, you got one thing right, we weren't there. So what good does speculation do? None, let him rest in peace.

And that map is old too. Now it is even more domestic and canadian oil moving into the US. Very little comes from the mideast or overseas at all. In fact, last year, the US was a NET EXPORTER OF REFINED CRUDE PRODUCTS.

Again, FSNTAC you need to start arguing in the world of reality. Not the crackpot half baked theories you have. Why don't you focus on real threats, like Agenda 24, instead of these completely IDIOTIC conspiracies. There are nefarious things going on in govt and in the UN. But what you speak of is completely false. Completely.

And as far as God Bless Pat Tillman, that is still applicable. Just because he was an athiest doesn't stop me from praying for him to at the moment of his soul departing, having a change of heart. I hope he did. And I pray he lives in God's eternal love in the afterlife.

flyingirish04 · Post by **flyingirish04** » 28 Feb 2012, 11:59

FSNTAC wrote:I am not disrespecting active duty members or vets. That is not my intent. I am trying to share the reason we went to war, and that was to protect oil and gas pipelines mainly running to China. And to protect the (protect them from the Taliban nonetheless).

If you disagree, what do you beleive the reason for th Afghan war was?

I am prepared for a lot of "literal" [profanity].

Well it is offensive. Period end of story. You have the right to say what you want, but I will hammer you if you continue down that line of crap reasoning, and bs.

The reason for the Afghan invasion is pretty simple. Destroy the Taliban controlled safety haven for Al Qaeda who attack us on 9.11, and then stabilize the region with a democratic form of governance. You can argue whether or not that doable, but that was the intent. Seriously, you have to ask that?

Oh and btw, there are no pipelines going to china through Afghanistan. :facepalm:

xqrz491 · Post by **xqrz491** » 07 Mar 2012, 11:36

This post/thread seems waaaaaaaay off topic of this forum but since I know more than most about this I thought I'd share the truth with whoever has the ears to listen. I’m going to go out on a limb here and actually tell you all the TRUTH…we’ll see if the truth gets me kicked out of this forum.

I must preface what I'm about to say with this...

This is a sensitive topic and there's a lot of knuckleheads out there (and on this thread) that have their "opinions" that are not rooted in facts or dare I say...reality...or they've simply based what they believe about that situation on what they've heard or been told on the all telling truth box we know as the TV...(seriously now, do people still think the news tells us the truth about such sensitive matters? NOT HAPPENING!!)

Too many people w/opinions on this topic actually don't know jack squat about the reality of the war or how Pat fit into the overall picture. To those naysayers, before you attempt to flame or hammer me on this, (if what I say defies what you think you know) do your own research and don't go on what you "think" The information is out there for those that have the mind to question what they've been told about this and those that have the ears to listen. I can GUARANTEE you this…what the public has been told is a blatant, outright, bold faced LIE!!

I can present to you what I know with confidence because I have somewhat of a unique knowledge of the Tillman situation because I dated the older sister (for 3 1/2 years...ended 3 months ago) of the man/Ranger that was standing 30 feet away from Pat when he was killed, was one of his best friends and actually brought his body home. If you look at the pictures circulating around, he’s in them w/Pat’s coffin both coming off the plane and at his funeral.

To understand the bigger picture you first have to understand who Pat was. He was a phenomenal human being with PROFOUND amounts of character, humility and integrity, that walked away from a big bucks career w/the Cardinals to fight what he thought were the people that dropped our towers. (ya don't see that sort of thing every day).
He was a big, strong guy, a professional athlete w/agility ta'boot, so he excelled in just about everything. Soooo many people w/in his platoon looked up to Pat. As big, athletic and able as he was, he was extremely humble and would go out of his way in many cases to help the little guy that was struggling...THAT says a LOT about the kind of man he was.. No ego!!! So that earned him a LOT of respect...and he earned all the respect he got just by being Pat. The world needs more people like him in it to be honest w/you.

You could easily say that he was a highly revered and respected human being in both the military and in the civvy sector, that possessed the potential to be extremely influential on others w/in his Platoon for one, and being a football star, people in the civvy sector would likely perk their ears up if he had something to say. So, with that said...
He was killed because he was verbally stating that he was going to 'expose' the war for what it really was/is when he finished his service time. After being in country for a period of time and getting deep into "the suck" many times, he was quoted as saying "how illegal this @#$%ing war is" and expressed a desire to let the world know the reality of the things that were going on over there at the time.

Think about it...you've got a highly respected person w/in the ranks of a Ranger Platoon saying things like that. Someone that begins to question EVERYTHING about the war and the orders he was given. That 'could' be viewed as a cancerous element w/the potential to have an effect on moral and potentially cause Rangers to question orders and what their missions were. THAT can be a big issue when you're in a position of power to the extent that you're running a war. What do they do to cancer in the body? In most cases they cut it out.

When one considers the kind of influence a man like Pat could have had on soldiers in war and how many people in the civvy sector would likely listen to what he has to say, then the picture becomes more clear as to why Pat is no longer with us. Simply removing him from the platoon or giving him desk duty wasn’t going to shut him up.

Contrary to what the public has been told or fed about that situation on the all telling truth box we call the TV, the public has been lied to. There's a lot of goings on over there and 'they' don't want the masses to know the truth about, (and if you don't believe that, then you're not paying attention very closely at all) then there would be a big ta'do about the war and what we're "actually" doing.

He was essentially silenced. It was "called" friendly fire because it was an American bullet that went through his head, but there wasn't ANYTHING friendly about how and more specifically "WHY" he is no longer with us.

Now watch all the people come out of the wood works and tell me their “opinion” and criticize me because what I’m saying so defies what they’ve been told or the conclusions they’ve come too based on what…something they saw on the news?

To that end, I really don't care. There's a LOT of keyboard commandos out there….if you get irritated w/what I’m saying because it defies what you think you know, then go to the range and shoot something. I’ve venture a guess that few civilians got as close to this topic as I did. Yeah…the new guy actually knows what he’s talking about and is not sharing an “opinion”. Do the research!!!

firestorm248 · Post by **firestorm248** » 07 Mar 2012, 13:51

I find it amazing to see how many people have made this topic their first and only post :ponder: , coincidence…I think not.

xqrz491 · Post by **xqrz491** » 07 Mar 2012, 13:58

firestorm248 wrote:I find it amazing to see how many people have made this topic their first and only post :ponder: , coincidence…I think not.

Being new here, I was just perusing the forums and it stuck out like a sore thumb. I joined to geek out with other 5.7 nuts and share ideas, experiences and reloading data. As stated in my post here...I have unique knowledge of this situation and the topic title did jump off the page at me.

Post by **MrSlippyFist** » 07 Mar 2012, 14:21

I don't believe what the TV, newspapers or what a best friends sisters ex-boyfriend might say about the situation. When are you going to change the wikipedia entry?

xqrz491 · Post by **xqrz491** » 07 Mar 2012, 15:04

MrSlippyFist wrote:I don't believe what the TV, newspapers or what a best friends sisters ex-boyfriend might say about the situation. When are you going to change the wikipedia entry?

I can't argue with you there...question everything. As the saying goes "trust but verify" (or don't trust and verify). To be quite honest I don't "expect" anyone to believe me, what I hope, is that with the perspective I've given, for those that are genuinely curious, just do the research. Despite the disinformation that's ramped out there and the efforts to sway the opinion of the masses, the truth is out there.

It's not my place in this world to convince anyone of anything they don't want to hear...but that seems to be a issue I've noticed in many people...the truth can smack'em in the face, but they still won't believe it. You're entitled to believe what you will. I'm just sharing information, it's up to the individual to conclude for themselves what resonates w/in them.

Take it easy man!

firestorm248 · Post by **firestorm248** » 07 Mar 2012, 15:11

MrSlippyFist wrote:I don't believe what the TV, newspapers or what a best friends sisters ex-boyfriend might say about the situation. When are you going to change the wikipedia entry?

God this reminds me of…

:lmao:

xqrz491 · Post by **xqrz491** » 07 Mar 2012, 15:21

firestorm248 wrote:
MrSlippyFist wrote:I don't believe what the TV, newspapers or what a best friends sisters ex-boyfriend might say about the situation. When are you going to change the wikipedia entry?
God this reminds me of…

:lmao:

So being critical of someone makes you feel better about yourself I suppose? The person I'm referring to was almost my brother in-law and was standing 30 feet from Pat when he was shot. You guys want to attempt to trivialize it with this "best friends, sisters, ex-boyfriend" nonsense. Are you 12? Think what you want, criticize how you will...but it does nothing more than show me "WHO" is behind the keyboard. Not worth my time, energy or brain power engaging you or feeding into the critical banter of some keyboard commando w/out a clue as to the reality of what happened any more. Numbnuts!!

Post by **MrSlippyFist** » 07 Mar 2012, 15:32

So you aren't going to stick around? Shocking.

I've met people who say they were there, too. I'm sure they were. Every story I've heard conflicts so why would I trust you?

firestorm248 · Post by **firestorm248** » 07 Mar 2012, 15:43

Xqrz491 whether it’s a almost brother in law or a best friend's sister's ex husband, it’s no more provable in court. Its hearsay and nothing more.
Hearsay:
1. Unverified information heard or received from another; rumor.
2. Law. Evidence based on the reports of others rather than the personal knowledge of a witness and therefore generally not admissible as testimony.
3. statement made by an individual within the organization that is based on rumor rather than substantiated facts; gossip.
4. in law, testimony of one person as to the statement of another. It does not prove what the other said but proves the truth of the fact asserted by the other.
5. unsubstantiated information

xqrz491 · Post by **xqrz491** » 07 Mar 2012, 15:51

MrSlippyFist wrote:So you aren't going to stick around? Shocking.

I've met people who say they were there, too. I'm sure they were. Every story I've heard conflicts so why would I trust you?

Once again...I agree with you. If the topic rousts your interest or curiosity, the information is out there.

And yeah, I'm sticking around. I'm not gonna be run off by people with opposing opinions on a topic that is somewhat sensitive and politically charged. I'm comfortable in my own skin and know my own truth. I did put on my big boy pants this morning :p I have thicker skin than that. It's those that are critical, flaming jerks that seem to like to bulldoze someone that doesn't see things or think exactly as they do.... that and those individuals I have no use for.

Post by **MrSlippyFist** » 07 Mar 2012, 16:05

I agree completely. Except that the information may not be out there. So much misinformation designed to distract you from the real problems.

Post by **MrSlippyFist** » 07 Mar 2012, 16:07

BTW, Do not view my deletion of your last post as censorship, we do not allow language like that in the open forum. Rather than waste my time cleaning it up, I just deleted it.

xqrz491 · Post by **xqrz491** » 07 Mar 2012, 16:14

MrSlippyFist wrote:BTW, Do not view my deletion of your last post as censorship, we do not allow language like that in the open forum. Rather than waste my time cleaning it up, I just deleted it.

Fair enough!! Won't happen again.

That guy just irritates the crap out of me. You don't believe me but you're not being a jack wad about it...I don't care for flamers.

xqrz491 · Post by **xqrz491** » 07 Mar 2012, 16:19

xqrz491 wrote:
MrSlippyFist wrote:BTW, Do not view my deletion of your last post as censorship, we do not allow language like that in the open forum. Rather than waste my time cleaning it up, I just deleted it.

Such fun for my first contribution to any thread on this site. I'm done with this thread now.
I came here for 5.7 info, not to get into arguments or deal with jerky people on subject matter of this nature.
Like I said, had I not known what I do, from the source I do, I'd have passed right on over this thread and never engaged here, and moved on to other 5.7 related topics.

What can I say, lesson learned.

SHEEPDOG · Post by **SHEEPDOG** » 09 Mar 2012, 20:15

Welcome to the the forum.

FSNTAC · Post by **FSNTAC** » 15 Jul 2013, 21:02

Check out the proposed oil and gas pipelines from Afghanistan to China.

Research US Banks Narcotic money.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 15 Jul 2013, 21:23

FSNTAC wrote:......................................................

Wow, enlightening post. So relevant & so moving.
And in a thread which has been inactive for over a year?

Brings tears to the eyes. Really. :facepalm:

FSNTAC · Post by **FSNTAC** » 15 Jul 2013, 21:28

Rapier1772 wrote:
FSNTAC wrote:......................................................
Wow, enlightening post. So relevant & so moving.
And in a thread which has been inactive for over a year?

Brings tears to the eyes. Really. :facepalm:

You are right no one has talked about this for over a year.... let's forget all about it. There is waaaaay more important things to talk about like the trayvon martin trail :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

With your brilliant insight and second to none on current events you should highly consider a run for office.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 16 Jul 2013, 00:58

FSNTAC wrote:
Rapier1772 wrote:
FSNTAC wrote:......................................................
Wow, enlightening post. So relevant & so moving.
And in a thread which has been inactive for over a year?
Brings tears to the eyes. Really. :facepalm:
You are right no one has talked about this for over a year.... let's forget all about it. There is waaaaay more important things to talk about like the trayvon martin trail :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

With your brilliant insight and second to none on current events you should highly consider a run for office.

I never said to forget about it but when all you do is hit one button 50+ times (press & hold is more likely), it's pretty obvious you didn't care enough to say anything useful about it either. If you've something relevant to say then go for it but please, at least make it look like an effort (speaking of which, thanks for editing the post).
My point is simply reminding everyone it was a tragedy would have been more insightful than 50 dots. Hell, stir the conspiracy pot if you want for that matter.

FSNTAC wrote:There is waaaaay more important things to talk about like the trayvon martin trail

Ironic use of sarcasm considering you did make more of an effort for your post in that thread this evening.

Stitches1974 · Post by **Stitches1974** » 16 Jul 2013, 04:57

Dear lord. I just saw this post and read most of it. Someone needs to get their facts straight and maybe a few loose screws tightened.

flyingirish04 · Post by **flyingirish04** » 16 Jul 2013, 08:25

HE was killed because some boot Rangers thought they were the taliban force attacking them. Blue on blue. Happens way too often, sadly.

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