9MM Guns

57js · Post by **57js** » 02 Sep 2011, 08:31

I am looking into cheaper semis to shoot at the range other than my FsN (already have .22LR revolvers). I am thinking 9mm though I am open to .40S&W depending on the price of the ammunition. As much as I would like to get a 10mm or a .45, that ammo is probably going to be too expensive. I was considering the Beretta PX4, but several people have steered me away from it. I am considering the FN FNX-9, IMI Baby Eagle II, and SIG P226 though I think the SIG is going to stretch my budget. I know Blue will refer me to CZ so I should also look into it.

Just interested in everyone's thoughts on which would be a good range gun. I carry the FsN, and don't plan to carry this new gun.

Thank you.

RC57 · Post by **RC57** » 02 Sep 2011, 10:16

I really like my FNX-9. It's rather nice for a $500 pistol. Ammo price isn't too bad either. Also, it's extremely easy to transition between it and my FNX-40, FNP-45, and FNP 45 Tactical. It definitely has a different feel and layout than my FsN though, so muscle memory doesn't really work between the FNX-9 and FsN.

Post by **panzermk2** » 02 Sep 2011, 10:45

Sig Pro or CZ.

57js · Post by **57js** » 02 Sep 2011, 13:28

panzermk2 wrote:Sig Pro or CZ.

Is there a specific CZ model recommended? Will also look into the Sig Pro, thanks.

flyingirish04 · Post by **flyingirish04** » 02 Sep 2011, 15:08

Sig 228 will last through thousands of rounds. I own one that I am selling on the forum.

Sig Pro is cheaper and nice too.

I don't own any CZs so I can't help you. I don't love them like blue or panzer, but I will admit the ones I have shot are great shooters, and really don't have any weaknesses.

Post by **f3rr37** » 02 Sep 2011, 16:53

I just picked up a CZ-75B earlier this week. I put 100 rounds through it last night and love it.

Post by **panzermk2** » 02 Sep 2011, 19:26

57js wrote:
panzermk2 wrote:Sig Pro or CZ.
Is there a specific CZ model recommended? Will also look into the Sig Pro, thanks.

CZ-75B

CZ-40B

And for something small the RAMI.

Post by **blueorison** » 02 Sep 2011, 20:04

Listen closely, sir.

Hear the whisper in your ear...

C...Z...SP...01...

Or CZ 75B. It cost less, and I prefer used guns. If you do, too, you can get one at sub $300.

SeaHawkDriver-B · Post by **SeaHawkDriver-B** » 03 Sep 2011, 07:29

Just what I would do.

$450 for a Glock 23, shoots .40 SW till the cows come home. Even if its just a range toy its still a Glock, dependable enough for any defensive situation if thats all you had. Drop in a Wolf aftermarket barrel and you can reliably shoot 9mm out of the same gun, switching back and forth to whatever caliber suits your fancy. Dozens of aftermarket parts available, and cheap too, including the ulta-hi-cap magazines, threaded barrels for suppressors, night/tritium sight optionss, and lights/lasers made specifically for the Glock.

57js · Post by **57js** » 03 Sep 2011, 11:50

blueorison wrote:Listen closely, sir.

Hear the whisper in your ear...

C...Z...SP...01...

Or CZ 75B. It cost less, and I prefer used guns. If you do, too, you can get one at sub $300.

Who would have thought that you would have recommended a CZ? :laugh:

I prefer used revolvers, but I am a little more concerned as to used semis. I guess it is because there is more than can go wrong with a semi if it isn't well cared for by the previous owner.

I will look into the SP01 and 75B in addition to the models that Jay recommended. I understand that the steel Baby Eagle II from IMI (the model I am looking at) is similar to the CZ (probably 75B, but don't know for sure). Is that true, and if so, what are the main differences?

57js · Post by **57js** » 03 Sep 2011, 11:54

I went to the local gun store today to pick up some supplies, and tried out the FNX-9 as well as the PX4 Compact. I have eliminated those two models from consideration so I am now down to several of the CZ models that Blue and Jay recommended in addition to the IMI Baby Eagle II and the SIG SP2022 (which I am assuming is the Sig Pro that Jay recommended). Looks like I have more models to look at today than yesterday. Guess that shows that I shouldn't ask you guys for advice!

57js · Post by **57js** » 03 Sep 2011, 11:57

SeaHawkDriver-B wrote:Just what I would do.

$450 for a Glock 23, shoots .40 SW till the cows come home. Even if its just a range toy its still a Glock, dependable enough for any defensive situation if thats all you had. Drop in a Wolf aftermarket barrel and you can reliably shoot 9mm out of the same gun, switching back and forth to whatever caliber suits your fancy. Dozens of aftermarket parts available, and cheap too, including the ulta-hi-cap magazines, threaded barrels for suppressors, night/tritium sight optionss, and lights/lasers made specifically for the Glock.

I have heard good things about Glocks for several people, but for some reason I don't like them. Can't really put my finger on why, but I don't want to own one. I shot a compact .40S&W model, and it was fine though I don't see myself buying one.

Post by **blueorison** » 03 Sep 2011, 12:07

Nothing will beat a CZ at the same pricepoint.

Nothing.

Don't buy the IMI, it's a copy. Get the CZ. FYI CZ triggers are a bit gritty from factory but smooth out insanely much after 300 rounds. Extremely smooth.

I'm working on a CZ from one of the shooters on my squad, actually. It's lying in pieces all over my table haha

57js · Post by **57js** » 03 Sep 2011, 12:36

blueorison wrote:Nothing will beat a CZ at the same pricepoint.

Nothing.

Don't buy the IMI, it's a copy. Get the CZ. FYI CZ triggers are a bit gritty from factory but smooth out insanely much after 300 rounds. Extremely smooth.

I'm working on a CZ from one of the shooters on my squad, actually. It's lying in pieces all over my table haha

I have noticed several SP01 models. The regular one, tactical, and the phantom. I am thinking that the SP01 is probably a little too much, but I will look at the 75B.

57js · Post by **57js** » 03 Sep 2011, 12:47

blueorison wrote:Nothing will beat a CZ at the same pricepoint.

Nothing.

Don't buy the IMI, it's a copy. Get the CZ. FYI CZ triggers are a bit gritty from factory but smooth out insanely much after 300 rounds. Extremely smooth.

I'm working on a CZ from one of the shooters on my squad, actually. It's lying in pieces all over my table haha

Just noticed that the SP-01 Phantom is close in price to the CZ75B though the Phantom model is polymer. How does the Phantom model compare with the regular steel SP-01? The steel version is about $80 more.

I heard good thing about IMI which is a reason why I am considering it (plus it is about $50 cheaper than the CZ).

Thanks.

Post by **blueorison** » 03 Sep 2011, 13:27

Get the steel version. If you like polymer guns (I like them the same as steel, doesn't matter to me) then you could get the Phantom. I would recommend the steel version for you, however.

The Phantom fits really nicely in your hand, also, and is lighter. I would pay the difference and go for steel for a range gun.

57js · Post by **57js** » 03 Sep 2011, 16:26

blueorison wrote:Get the steel version. If you like polymer guns (I like them the same as steel, doesn't matter to me) then you could get the Phantom. I would recommend the steel version for you, however.

The Phantom fits really nicely in your hand, also, and is lighter. I would pay the difference and go for steel for a range gun.

Steel one might be over my limit, and it doesn't appear to be in stock anywhere I usually go to. What are the differences between the 75B and the SP01?

57js · Post by **57js** » 03 Sep 2011, 17:19

blueorison wrote:Get the steel version. If you like polymer guns (I like them the same as steel, doesn't matter to me) then you could get the Phantom. I would recommend the steel version for you, however.

The Phantom fits really nicely in your hand, also, and is lighter. I would pay the difference and go for steel for a range gun.

I can't find any of the CZ's for a reasonable price in stock at my usual places, but they all have the IMI steel version. Is the CZ that much better where I should wait for it to come in or is the IMI version very similar? I don't mind waiting a bit (Nevada'a NICS CCW exemption is in flux right now), but don't want to wait four or five months.

Thanks.

Oldbindlestiff · Post by **Oldbindlestiff** » 03 Sep 2011, 17:31

I find this sort of embarassing considering that I cut my eye teeth shooting High Standard .22's and Colt 1911's. While I still own both brands (retired after years of Bullseye competition), my carry pistol is a Glock 17 (9mm) or 30 (.45ACP). Drop in a Ghost Rocket trigger and you will have a pistol that is so reliable that it is quite boring. The CZ's are quite acceptable; just not my favorite.

Gene

Post by **blueorison** » 03 Sep 2011, 20:58

57js wrote:
blueorison wrote:Get the steel version. If you like polymer guns (I like them the same as steel, doesn't matter to me) then you could get the Phantom. I would recommend the steel version for you, however.

The Phantom fits really nicely in your hand, also, and is lighter. I would pay the difference and go for steel for a range gun.
I can't find any of the CZ's for a reasonable price in stock at my usual places, but they all have the IMI steel version. Is the CZ that much better where I should wait for it to come in or is the IMI version very similar? I don't mind waiting a bit (Nevada'a NICS CCW exemption is in flux right now), but don't want to wait four or five months.

Thanks.

Buy it online. The member on my team who bought the Pre-B got his for $280 off Wideners. Buds would be a good place, as is gunbroker.

There is no big difference between the SP01 and 75B as far as being a range gun. They are both good.

57js · Post by **57js** » 04 Sep 2011, 09:27

blueorison wrote:
57js wrote:
blueorison wrote:Get the steel version. If you like polymer guns (I like them the same as steel, doesn't matter to me) then you could get the Phantom. I would recommend the steel version for you, however.

The Phantom fits really nicely in your hand, also, and is lighter. I would pay the difference and go for steel for a range gun.
I can't find any of the CZ's for a reasonable price in stock at my usual places, but they all have the IMI steel version. Is the CZ that much better where I should wait for it to come in or is the IMI version very similar? I don't mind waiting a bit (Nevada'a NICS CCW exemption is in flux right now), but don't want to wait four or five months.

Thanks.
Buy it online. The member on my team who bought the Pre-B got his for $280 off Wideners. Buds would be a good place, as is gunbroker.

There is no big difference between the SP01 and 75B as far as being a range gun. They are both good.

I did go onto Bud's, and they don't have either the 75B or SP01 though they do have the Phantom for $520. My local place has the 75B, but when it would cost $60 more. Gunbroker is also higher than Buds when you add in shipping as Buds has free shipping. I should be notified when it comes in, but who knows how long that will be.

Post by **blueorison** » 04 Sep 2011, 14:51

I just mentioned a few sites. There are many others.

57js · Post by **57js** » 04 Sep 2011, 14:57

blueorison wrote:I just mentioned a few sites. There are many others.

I did look through most of them, and Bud's or GB is usually the cheapest. I did find the CZ 75B in 40 S&W for a very good price on GB. Have you shot that model? I prefer 9mm for the price of ammo and capacity of the magazine (the CZ I found comes only with 10 round mags), but how good is the 40 S&W? I see ammo costs more than 9mm, but no where near as much as 10mm or 45s.

Post by **blueorison** » 04 Sep 2011, 15:04

Stick with the 9mm.

No point paying for .40 for a range gun.

If you want to save money, get the Phantom, it's just as good as the steel.

I was out actually shooting a P01 and SP01 today. They were brand new and needed breaking in.

flyingirish04 · Post by **flyingirish04** » 04 Sep 2011, 15:15

There is a 75B at my local gun shop. Brand new, 9mm but they want $625 for it. Apparently cost for CZs went WAY up recently.

Post by **blueorison** » 04 Sep 2011, 15:30

CZ's didn't go way up.

I spoke to Angus over email last year, he warned me of an approximate 10% increase.

That 75B, unless it is shiney, is overpriced.

57, I did homework for you.

http://www.wholesalehunter.com/product. ... ctid=52520" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There you go, it's even cheaper than the one you found.

Get it before it is gone.

Blue out.

57js · Post by **57js** » 04 Sep 2011, 16:31

flyingirish04 wrote:There is a 75B at my local gun shop. Brand new, 9mm but they want $625 for it. Apparently cost for CZs went WAY up recently.

$625 is nuts. Buds sold it for $488 when it was in stock, and my local place has it for $499 (add in 8.1% sales tax). Since so many places don't have any in stock, I suspect there is more of supply issue at this point.

57js · Post by **57js** » 04 Sep 2011, 16:35

blueorison wrote:CZ's didn't go way up.

I spoke to Angus over email last year, he warned me of an approximate 10% increase.

That 75B, unless it is shiney, is overpriced.

57, I did homework for you.

http://www.wholesalehunter.com/product. ... ctid=52520" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There you go, it's even cheaper than the one you found.

Get it before it is gone.

Blue out.

Thank you. I was hoping for the regular steel CZ75B, but they didn't have any in stock. That place is definitely cheaper than Buds. I might want to wait for the all steel version from what everyone seems to recommend. Something up as most places are out of both the CZ75B and the steel SP01.

57js · Post by **57js** » 04 Sep 2011, 16:41

blueorison wrote:Stick with the 9mm.

No point paying for .40 for a range gun.

If you want to save money, get the Phantom, it's just as good as the steel.

I was out actually shooting a P01 and SP01 today. They were brand new and needed breaking in.

I agree with you about the .40 S&W. I think the 9mm will do an excellent job as a range gun, and if I decide to carry it in the future. I found 1000 rounds of 9mm of once fired BVAC ammo for about $175.

I heard the Phantom has a different trigger feel than the steel version.

Breaking in a gun. Tough job.

Post by **blueorison** » 04 Sep 2011, 17:23

It does have a slightly different trigger, IIRC.

I know the BVAC you're talking about. I have shot it. I would go with WOLF crap 9mm over it.

After 500 rounds the trigger is revolver smooth on a CZ. I'm doing a trigger job for a member of my team as I type this, but it is unnecessary once you break your gun in.

The Phantom feels very good to shoot and manipulation in dynamic shooting.

flyingirish04 · Post by **flyingirish04** » 04 Sep 2011, 17:33

57js wrote:
flyingirish04 wrote:There is a 75B at my local gun shop. Brand new, 9mm but they want $625 for it. Apparently cost for CZs went WAY up recently.
$625 is nuts. Buds sold it for $488 when it was in stock, and my local place has it for $499 (add in 8.1% sales tax). Since so many places don't have any in stock, I suspect there is more of supply issue at this point.

I know. That is what I said, and that is the story I got from the assistant manager there. I buy a lot from them, and work exclusively with the manager, who wasn't there. So I can't say for sure that is the truth. I am not in the market for a 75B anyway so I didn't push it. I did notice that the CZ Rifles were up too. Apparently they are really behind on manufacturing. They are just now getting some of the guns they ordered 6 months ago. On a good note, they have a RAMI there for $329. It was used by in good shape. I almost bought it. If it is still there Tuesday, I just may make an offer.

flyingirish04 · Post by **flyingirish04** » 04 Sep 2011, 17:38

blueorison wrote:It does have a slightly different trigger, IIRC.

I know the BVAC you're talking about. I have shot it. I would go with WOLF crap 9mm over it.

After 500 rounds the trigger is revolver smooth on a CZ. I'm doing a trigger job for a member of my team as I type this, but it is unnecessary once you break your gun in.

The Phantom feels very good to shoot and manipulation in dynamic shooting.

I actually think the Phantom is one of the best feeling poly guns out there. And I am not a poly fan at all. Don't like the feel. But the Phantom feels good. Personally, I would go with that if it is cheaper. From my experience the trigger didn't feel that different at all, but I am shooting my buddy's broke in guns when I shoot CZs.

57js · Post by **57js** » 04 Sep 2011, 17:59

blueorison wrote:It does have a slightly different trigger, IIRC.

I know the BVAC you're talking about. I have shot it. I would go with WOLF crap 9mm over it.

After 500 rounds the trigger is revolver smooth on a CZ. I'm doing a trigger job for a member of my team as I type this, but it is unnecessary once you break your gun in.

The Phantom feels very good to shoot and manipulation in dynamic shooting.

If you prefer Wolf to BVAC, I might as well look for some other cheap range ammo since I am not a big Wolf fan.

I shoot mostly S&W revolvers, and if the CZ trigger is that smooth once it is broken in, the gun should be great to shoot. I like the FsN, especially after having the accurazing done on it, but I really enjoy my S&W 681 trigger.

I am going to have to seriously consider the Phantom from what people are saying. Then it is off to get 9mm ammo. This is going to be an expensive week.

57js · Post by **57js** » 04 Sep 2011, 18:03

flyingirish04 wrote:
57js wrote:
flyingirish04 wrote:There is a 75B at my local gun shop. Brand new, 9mm but they want $625 for it. Apparently cost for CZs went WAY up recently.
$625 is nuts. Buds sold it for $488 when it was in stock, and my local place has it for $499 (add in 8.1% sales tax). Since so many places don't have any in stock, I suspect there is more of supply issue at this point.
I know. That is what I said, and that is the story I got from the assistant manager there. I buy a lot from them, and work exclusively with the manager, who wasn't there. So I can't say for sure that is the truth. I am not in the market for a 75B anyway so I didn't push it. I did notice that the CZ Rifles were up too. Apparently they are really behind on manufacturing. They are just now getting some of the guns they ordered 6 months ago. On a good note, they have a RAMI there for $329. It was used by in good shape. I almost bought it. If it is still there Tuesday, I just may make an offer.

The last year or two seems to be crazy to get guns and parts. The local store I go to didn't get in a CMMG .22LR for several months, and then only a few which didn't last too long on the shelf. I guess CZ is behind as well on some of their steel models.

I remember buying my FsN in 2009 for about $980 which I thought was high until I saw that they are now going for over $1100 around here.

57js · Post by **57js** » 04 Sep 2011, 18:07

flyingirish04 wrote:
blueorison wrote:It does have a slightly different trigger, IIRC.

I know the BVAC you're talking about. I have shot it. I would go with WOLF crap 9mm over it.

After 500 rounds the trigger is revolver smooth on a CZ. I'm doing a trigger job for a member of my team as I type this, but it is unnecessary once you break your gun in.

The Phantom feels very good to shoot and manipulation in dynamic shooting.

I actually think the Phantom is one of the best feeling poly guns out there. And I am not a poly fan at all. Don't like the feel. But the Phantom feels good. Personally, I would go with that if it is cheaper. From my experience the trigger didn't feel that different at all, but I am shooting my buddy's broke in guns when I shoot CZs.

I shoot mostly revolvers which are steel/aluminum, and the FsN which is polymer. I might not know what I am missing with a steel semi since I never shot one before, but you and Blue have good things to stay about the Phantom so I have some serious thinking to do.

The steel CZ75B is cheaper than the Phantom, but no one has them at a decent price. The steel SP-01 is more than the Phantom. If the steel CZ 75B was available at a good price, I would go with it over the Phantom. I just wish I knew when the 75B would be in stock because if it will be in a few weeks, I will certainly wait for it.

flyingirish04 · Post by **flyingirish04** » 04 Sep 2011, 19:17

Yeah, gun parts are tight. I waited 4 months for my Lilja barrel blank. Virginia, the office manager in Plains told me she has never seen business as jumping as now.

I have had a 454 Casull Ruger Alaskan on order for 5 months. Savage has yet to release rifles they promised out in Feb. GreyBull Precision is 6 months out on their rifles, luckily their optics are only 2 months out. Burris is short scope rings even!!! The only thing that isn't tight is components for reloading. Which a couple years ago, you couldn't find.

flyingirish04 · Post by **flyingirish04** » 04 Sep 2011, 20:23

And the endorsement for the phantom is kool-aid free. I don't own a single CZ pistol, I prefer the feel and accuracy of Sigs. But I would buy a Phantom before I ever bought a poly SigPro or 250.

Post by **panzermk2** » 04 Sep 2011, 20:36

57js wrote:
blueorison wrote:Get the steel version. If you like polymer guns (I like them the same as steel, doesn't matter to me) then you could get the Phantom. I would recommend the steel version for you, however.

The Phantom fits really nicely in your hand, also, and is lighter. I would pay the difference and go for steel for a range gun.
I can't find any of the CZ's for a reasonable price in stock at my usual places, but they all have the IMI steel version. Is the CZ that much better where I should wait for it to come in or is the IMI version very similar? I don't mind waiting a bit (Nevada'a NICS CCW exemption is in flux right now), but don't want to wait four or five months.

Thanks.

Buy it from our sponsor Tanners. Ray jr, can ship it to your FFL. Hard to beat his prices.

Post by **f3rr37** » 04 Sep 2011, 22:22

Unfortunately Ray isn't a CZ stocking dealer... I asked. I picked up my CZ-75B from Keith's Sporting Goods in Gresham, OR, for $469.

57js · Post by **57js** » 05 Sep 2011, 08:35

flyingirish04 wrote:And the endorsement for the phantom is kool-aid free. I don't own a single CZ pistol, I prefer the feel and accuracy of Sigs. But I would buy a Phantom before I ever bought a poly SigPro or 250.

That is saying a lot since I was looking into the SigPro and the P250.

CZFAN · Post by **CZFAN** » 14 Sep 2011, 10:06

I own a Few CZ's and my 3 fav's are PCR, Duty P07, SP01. Also the older Steyr M9's are Ranked highly if you can find them.

Check out my intro post below.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=555&start=1320" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

57js · Post by **57js** » 16 Sep 2011, 18:56

Well I went ahead and ordered a 75B which should I get in several weeks. How many magazines come with it, and does CZ include a speed loader? If not, what do you guys recommend?

Looking forward to taking it out to the desert to see if Blue and Jay's ravings are accurate.

Post by **blueorison** » 16 Sep 2011, 20:34

57js wrote:Well I went ahead and ordered a 75B which should I get in several weeks. How many magazines come with it, and does CZ include a speed loader? If not, what do you guys recommend?

Looking forward to taking it out to the desert to see if Blue and Jay's ravings are accurate.

CZ is a combat pistol, as I've said, many times. Do you think using a mag loader is part of their combat course? :lmao:

Kidding aside, each pistol comes with a different number of magazines, usually 1 or 2.

It's one of the best to me, but YOU have to decide what works the best for you, and not rely on what I think

Sorry if I came off as rude, I don't mean to be. I just don't like to be held accountable to someone's "test" of whether what I said was "true". I'm sure you will have a great time shooting it and love the CZ :thumb:

__________

I went back to read my review, and you're totally right, it was pretty raving HAHA

I guess I have to own up there...

57js · Post by **57js** » 17 Sep 2011, 07:17

blueorison wrote:
57js wrote:Well I went ahead and ordered a 75B which should I get in several weeks. How many magazines come with it, and does CZ include a speed loader? If not, what do you guys recommend?

Looking forward to taking it out to the desert to see if Blue and Jay's ravings are accurate.
CZ is a combat pistol, as I've said, many times. Do you think using a mag loader is part of their combat course? :lmao:

Kidding aside, each pistol comes with a different number of magazines, usually 1 or 2.

It's one of the best to me, but YOU have to decide what works the best for you, and not rely on what I think

Sorry if I came off as rude, I don't mean to be. I just don't like to be held accountable to someone's "test" of whether what I said was "true". I'm sure you will have a great time shooting it and love the CZ :thumb:

__________

I went back to read my review, and you're totally right, it was pretty raving HAHA

I guess I have to own up there...

I just hope the magazines are easier to load than the Glock 17C magazines I loaded back in 2009 which was when I shot my first gun. Those rounds were a pain to load, and I was never able to fully load that magazine. Then my friend showed me his speed loader for his Glock, and loading went much quicker.

Combat pistol so part of the combat course is to bring 10+ fully loaded magazines to the range so you don't have to worry about reloading the magazines until you have plenty of time later. Got it.

One or two magazines? Wow that is unusual as many manufacturers try to standardize their products. I found extra magazines for $30 a piece, and will do a little more digging to see if there is a better price, but I think I will pick up a few extra magazines. I still have three for my FsN which is fine for me, but probably should have at least three for the CZ.

You didn't come off as rude, you gave your opinion which is all that I asked. When shopping for certain products, including guns, people need to hear from other people who have used the product for a while especially since either it is impossible to shoot the gun before hand or shooting a rental gun for thirty minutes won't tell too much about the gun. Like a ten minute test drive a car, that doesn't tell you too much at all. Both you and Jay are often right (hope Lisa isn't reading this

) so I respect your opinions, and I haven't heard of anyone saying one bad thing about the CZ so it is the right decision to make.

Post by **blueorison** » 17 Sep 2011, 08:42

Thanks for understanding, 57J

If you have any questions that you need a quick answer to, feel free to PM me and I'll do my best to help out.

The Glock 17C mags and all Glock magazines; I feel that these are the easiest mags to load out of any gun. Were you loading 10 round mags? If you were, those are always hard to load because the springs are very firm and have strong resistance.

CZ's should hold 14-15 rounds, and the rounds are not hard to load at all, to me.

Many competitors at USPSA, LE included, use maglula and other magazine loaders. I would recommend to you that you build up your dexterity and finger strength by hand loading your ammunition. I'm not going to get into a long post, but people do not understand how important it is to load their magazines by hand, and how this simple exercise is very important in helping you become a good shooter. It might seem trivial, but it really isn't. I've mentioned before; I deem it so important that no one on my team is allowed to use a magazine loader.

Tachycardia · Post by **Tachycardia** » 17 Sep 2011, 09:19

You can get 18 and 20 round mags as well, and even with a new may I have never had an issue with CZ

Tachycardia · Post by **Tachycardia** » 17 Sep 2011, 09:28

Actually let me know if you need mags, I can get them for less than $10 near where I live

I am a bit of a cz fanatic as well' Blue has created the ultimate monster with me.

The close proximity of the CZ Custom shop did not help matters.

If you need sights or anything just pm me, I get discounts as I spend a lot at the shop and I would be happy to help

57js · Post by **57js** » 17 Sep 2011, 13:01

blueorison wrote:Thanks for understanding, 57J If you have any questions that you need a quick answer to, feel free to PM me and I'll do my best to help out.

The Glock 17C mags and all Glock magazines; I feel that these are the easiest mags to load out of any gun. Were you loading 10 round mags? If you were, those are always hard to load because the springs are very firm and have strong resistance.

CZ's should hold 14-15 rounds, and the rounds are not hard to load at all, to me.

Many competitors at USPSA, LE included, use maglula and other magazine loaders. I would recommend to you that you build up your dexterity and finger strength by hand loading your ammunition. I'm not going to get into a long post, but people do not understand how important it is to load their magazines by hand, and how this simple exercise is very important in helping you become a good shooter. It might seem trivial, but it really isn't. I've mentioned before; I deem it so important that no one on my team is allowed to use a magazine loader.

Thank you, I appreciate it. Maybe this forum should be re-classified for the FsN and CZ 75B models since the CZ is also discussed quite often here.

It has been a few years so I don't recall what size magazines I was using. I know it wasn't the 33 rounders. I live in Nevada where we can have any size magazines we want, but it could have been a ten round magazine at the range. Wouldn't surprise me since people aren't buying too many of them here. It was probably me since I never even held a pistol before I shot that Glock. Nervous doesn't begin to describe how I felt. I probably drove the RSO crazy because I was asking him if I was loading the magazines correctly, and operating the gun correctly several times. The range showed me previously how to load the mag, but it was the first I was touching ammunition I didn't want to screw up. It took me a short time to figure how to probably load the FsN mag which tells you how bad I was.

CZ mags are supposed to hold 16 rounds though I saw that someone sells a 19 round magazine as well. I expect it will be hard to load the magazines at first due to the spring resistance, but maybe if I load them as much as I can and let the magazines sit for a bit, it will help the springs.

I have a couple of .22LR Black Dog magazines. I was able to get 15 rounds in one, and 18 in another before I could put any more in. Each magazine holds 26 rounds. Took it to someone I know who was able to force each enough rounds in each magazine to max it out, left the ammo in there for a week or so, and no problems filling the magazines now. Hopefully I can get the same result with the CZ magazines.

57js · Post by **57js** » 17 Sep 2011, 13:04

Tachycardia wrote:You can get 18 and 20 round mags as well, and even with a new may I have never had an issue with CZ

I saw 19 round magazines on some website (want to say it is the CZ Custom shop), but it was out of stock. Never saw the 20 round magazines. How far do they stick out, and where can I find them?

Really wishing I found a cheaper hobby.

57js · Post by **57js** » 17 Sep 2011, 13:06

Tachycardia wrote:Actually let me know if you need mags, I can get them for less than $10 near where I live

I am a bit of a cz fanatic as well' Blue has created the ultimate monster with me.

The close proximity of the CZ Custom shop did not help matters.

If you need sights or anything just pm me, I get discounts as I spend a lot at the shop and I would be happy to help

Thank you. I will certainly need some additional magazines. Don't know exactly how many, but probably two or three. I found 16 round magazines ranging from $30 online to $50 at my local shop. I keep trying to buy locally, but the prices aren't letting me do that.

I just posted asking about 20 round magazines. Do you know how much they are?

Thanks.

Tachycardia · Post by **Tachycardia** » 17 Sep 2011, 18:31

57js wrote:
Tachycardia wrote:Actually let me know if you need mags, I can get them for less than $10 near where I live

I am a bit of a cz fanatic as well' Blue has created the ultimate monster with me.

The close proximity of the CZ Custom shop did not help matters.

If you need sights or anything just pm me, I get discounts as I spend a lot at the shop and I would be happy to help
Thank you. I will certainly need some additional magazines. Don't know exactly how many, but probably two or three. I found 16 round magazines ranging from $30 online to $50 at my local shop. I keep trying to buy locally, but the prices aren't letting me do that.

I just posted asking about 20 round magazines. Do you know how much they are?

Thanks.

Place by me has 15rd mags for 10 bucks and some 18rd as well.

The 20 rounders are $47 new from CZ Custom, I'll look and see if there are any used locally.
I have a couple of 15 rounders I'll never use if you want them, just pm me an addy

Tachycardia · Post by **Tachycardia** » 17 Sep 2011, 18:32

http://czcustom.com/CZ-Magazines-Mags.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here are new ones.

Gunbroker is a great place for used ones, Backpage as well

Valorius · Post by **Valorius** » 17 Sep 2011, 19:03

I just got a Sig P228 (US M11) about a month ago. Have always been a fan of the model, so when i saw a police trade in for $385, i snatched it up faster than a speeding bullet.

My P228 w/ 18rd Mec Gar P226 magazine, X-grip, and tritium front sight.

It shoots like a laser beam. For anyone looking for a 9mm, i cannot recommend the Sig P228 highly enough.

57js · Post by **57js** » 18 Sep 2011, 09:11

Tachycardia wrote:http://czcustom.com/CZ-Magazines-Mags.aspx

Here are new ones.

Gunbroker is a great place for used ones, Backpage as well

I was looking for their magazines, and only found the factory magazines. Thanks. I do go on GB from time to time, and have seen them there.

57js · Post by **57js** » 18 Sep 2011, 16:37

Tachycardia wrote:
57js wrote:
Tachycardia wrote:Actually let me know if you need mags, I can get them for less than $10 near where I live

I am a bit of a cz fanatic as well' Blue has created the ultimate monster with me.

The close proximity of the CZ Custom shop did not help matters.

If you need sights or anything just pm me, I get discounts as I spend a lot at the shop and I would be happy to help
Thank you. I will certainly need some additional magazines. Don't know exactly how many, but probably two or three. I found 16 round magazines ranging from $30 online to $50 at my local shop. I keep trying to buy locally, but the prices aren't letting me do that.

I just posted asking about 20 round magazines. Do you know how much they are?

Thanks.
Place by me has 15rd mags for 10 bucks and some 18rd as well.

The 20 rounders are $47 new from CZ Custom, I'll look and see if there are any used locally.
I have a couple of 15 rounders I'll never use if you want them, just pm me an addy

Sent you a pm. Thank you.

sib1948 · Post by **sib1948** » 19 Sep 2011, 19:47

I love my HK P30. Very accurate and flawless performance with over 3000 rounds fired over the last several months. More pricey than other models mentioned, but "You get what you pay for" with HK quality.

57js · Post by **57js** » 03 Oct 2011, 16:39

blueorison wrote:...
Many competitors at USPSA, LE included, use maglula and other magazine loaders. I would recommend to you that you build up your dexterity and finger strength by hand loading your ammunition. I'm not going to get into a long post, but people do not understand how important it is to load their magazines by hand, and how this simple exercise is very important in helping you become a good shooter. It might seem trivial, but it really isn't. I've mentioned before; I deem it so important that no one on my team is allowed to use a magazine loader.

I haven't received my CZ 75B yet, but the extra magazines that I ordered did some in today. I decided to load them up now with all 16 rounds, and I had no problem. Blue is certainly right (did I actually say that?

). It was a little tougher to put the last round or two in, but it wasn't bad at all. I am going to pass on the mag loader since I don't think I need it. I should have the 75B next week, and I look forward to taking it out to the desert.

Post by **blueorison** » 03 Oct 2011, 17:08

57js wrote:
blueorison wrote:Blue is certainly right (did I actually say that? )

Am I usually wrong? I don't get what you are saying... :ponder:

Post by **Rapier1772** » 03 Oct 2011, 18:33

I think he just didn't want to feed your ego by saying you were right yet AGAIN

You said no one on your team is allowed to use them - how many rounds did they load on those days? I ask because the shooting courses I have taken actually had us buy a loader. We were going to be shooting at least 400 rounds that day & they didn't want us spending half the day loading mags.

Post by **blueorison** » 03 Oct 2011, 18:44

Haha... I gotcha. In all honesty I don't get pride from people saying I'm right. Regarding certain information I post (not all) I already know I'm right, or I wouldn't post information out there. Some people's personality lends them to put a disclaimer on everything ".02".. etc.

While I always encourage shooters to do "what works for them", there ARE absolutes that are so inclusive that they can be taken as general statements; as such, I hardly place disclaimers on them.

For example; loading ammunition using a magloader. 99% of people will never load more than 1000 rounds in one day. So I can pretty much tell people the right way (unless a disability does not permit) to load mags is with the fingers on your hand. My purpose is to help others see the light. However, this intention seems to be misconstrued. Oh well. Can't please everyone. You guys that are taking my advice as something to find fault with so that you can say "AHA! YOU MESSED UP!" are totally missing the point. If you want me to stay off your thread, just say so and I'll leave; gladly. I don't need to spend time trying to help just to see you try to start an argument or pissing contest. I'm didn't want to rant here, but I'm kinda tired of people doing it, lately.

To answer your question, on a training day, my team will shoot 400-600 rounds per day. On a regular practice day, we only shoot 100 rounds and I cap it at that. Practice days are for reviewing and reinforcing what we have learned on training days. Training days typically last 6 hours.

Every round is used wisely and efficiently. Quantity=/=quality. Case in point; the invite match that I just held for the forum saw each competitor only use 300 rounds for 2 days of running and gunning and 7+ stages.

CenCalSplicer · Post by **CenCalSplicer** » 03 Oct 2011, 19:06

Awesome match BTW!!!!

57js · Post by **57js** » 03 Oct 2011, 20:14

blueorison wrote:
57js wrote:
blueorison wrote:Blue is certainly right (did I actually say that? )
Am I usually wrong? I don't get what you are saying... :ponder:

I was just joking around with you. Hence the big smile.

57js · Post by **57js** » 03 Oct 2011, 20:17

Rapier1772 wrote:I think he just didn't want to feed your ego by saying you were right yet AGAIN

You said no one on your team is allowed to use them - how many rounds did they load on those days? I ask because the shooting courses I have taken actually had us buy a loader. We were going to be shooting at least 400 rounds that day & they didn't want us spending half the day loading mags.

That is it. I was joking around with Blue a bit, and he usually is right.

57js · Post by **57js** » 03 Oct 2011, 20:25

blueorison wrote:Haha... I gotcha. In all honesty I don't get pride from people saying I'm right. Regarding certain information I post (not all) I already know I'm right, or I wouldn't post information out there. Some people's personality lends them to put a disclaimer on everything ".02".. etc.

While I always encourage shooters to do "what works for them", there ARE absolutes that are so inclusive that they can be taken as general statements; as such, I hardly place disclaimers on them.

For example; loading ammunition using a magloader. 99% of people will never load more than 1000 rounds in one day. So I can pretty much tell people the right way (unless a disability does not permit) to load mags is with the fingers on your hand. My purpose is to help others see the light. However, this intention seems to be misconstrued. Oh well. Can't please everyone. You guys that are taking my advice as something to find fault with so that you can say "AHA! YOU MESSED UP!" are totally missing the point. If you want me to stay off your thread, just say so and I'll leave; gladly. I don't need to spend time trying to help just to see you try to start an argument or pissing contest. I'm didn't want to rant here, but I'm kinda tired of people doing it, lately.

I don't think there are too many people who don't value your advice. When I ask for advice, I would like to hear from a lot of people especially if it goes against the way I am leaning.

I admit I was skeptical because of my previous experience hand loading Glock 17C magazines. It takes me a very short amount of time to load the FsN magazines, but I had major problems with the Glock probably because of the 9mm rounds as well as it is the first time I ever loaded a magazine. I was expecting to have the same problem with the CZ based on the fact that it is also a 9mm. Happily you were right, and my worries were unnecessary. I was joking around when I made my comment, and I thought the large smile would be enough to show it, but I have problems with people knowing when I am serious and when I am not in person. It is even harder online.

Post by **blueorison** » 03 Oct 2011, 20:33

I know for fact it is hard for me, especially from people I have never hung out with before.

I find that although it may seem to be "taking it too seriously" as Fuzzy has pointed out recently, I'd rather be clear than misconstrued. Which is why I prefer conversing in PM's or on the phone. I usually make more friends that way, and good ones at that.

It's how I met all of the people that were at the invite match.

I think next time, because of my lack of ability to read what people say online, I'll just PM you with a reply, hope you don't mind.

57js · Post by **57js** » 04 Oct 2011, 06:49

blueorison wrote:I know for fact it is hard for me, especially from people I have never hung out with before.

I find that although it may seem to be "taking it too seriously" as Fuzzy has pointed out recently, I'd rather be clear than misconstrued. Which is why I prefer conversing in PM's or on the phone. I usually make more friends that way, and good ones at that.

It's how I met all of the people that were at the invite match.

I think next time, because of my lack of ability to read what people say online, I'll just PM you with a reply, hope you don't mind.

PM is fine. I understand what you are saying. I joke around a lot, but I say almost everything with a straight face so even people who know me can't always tell when I am serious. It is that much difficult on the computer because people don't see the slight clues I might give off that I am not serious. I try to be the same online as I am in person, but it doesn't always work out right. I am going to have to change that at least until the person knows me a bit better. Usually I joke around with friends or people I get along with well. When I stop joking around with someone, that is usually an indication of a problem between us. Except online since it doesn't always come through as I expect.

I do appreciate all the advice you have given.

jnomad66 · Post by **jnomad66** » 05 Dec 2011, 22:49

Looking at the sp-01 tactical, it seems like a killer deal in a range gun. Also, it comes stock with night sights, for around 600 shipped. My question is, is the sp-01 to large to conceal for EDC? Is it a range/duty gun, or can it be CCW'ed?

Post by **blueorison** » 05 Dec 2011, 23:06

jnomad66 wrote:Looking at the sp-01 tactical, it seems like a killer deal in a range gun. Also, it comes stock with night sights, for around 600 shipped. My question is, is the sp-01 to large to conceal for EDC? Is it a range/duty gun, or can it be CCW'ed?

It is a range/duty gun. However, I know many that CCW it. I personally wouldn't, but I do not have a large body frame. Here's a guide to go by; if you can CCW a 1911 COMFORTABLY, the SP01 will CCW appropriately. If not, get a P01.

jnomad66 · Post by **jnomad66** » 05 Dec 2011, 23:35

Thanks, that's something to think about. I have a decision to make, I've already decided that a CZ 9mm will be my christmass present to myself, I'm just trying to decide which one. I want the sp-01 tactical, but a p01 or a RAAMI would be a lot more practical.

Post by **blueorison** » 05 Dec 2011, 23:55

I wouldn't worry if I were you.

The P-01 is VERY shootable. Think Glock 17 to Glock 19. The 19 isn't smaller; it's practically standard-sized, even though it is a "compact". Same goes to the P-01. Your hands aren't coming off the bottom grip or dealing with hard recoil from +P+.

I wear a medium/large glove and I shoot with it fine.

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