In a pinch, what would you prefer?
In a pinch, what would you prefer?
In a pinch, what would you prefer?
9mm 147gr. HST @ 1050fps - 360ft/lbs
5.7x28 40gr. Vmax @ 2050fps - 375ft/lbs
I know there are TONS of other options, just looking for the preference between these two :thumb:
9mm 147gr. HST @ 1050fps - 360ft/lbs
5.7x28 40gr. Vmax @ 2050fps - 375ft/lbs
I know there are TONS of other options, just looking for the preference between these two :thumb:
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
I gel tested the 9mm 147gr. HST a while ago and it was nothing impressive.
Viltaliy has the pics somewhere after we cut it out of the gel block.
Viltaliy has the pics somewhere after we cut it out of the gel block.
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
Good to know... I Personally think the 5.7 with the 40gr. is the better choice, just looking for others opinions :laugh:panzermk2 wrote:I gel tested the 9mm 147gr. HST a while ago and it was nothing impressive.
Viltaliy has the pics somewhere after we cut it out of the gel block.
I think the HST is definitely one of the better options in 9mm, I have a mag full of them in the gun in the closet, just in case my five seven is no where to be found...
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
Oh. One of THESE threads again.
Why is it the OPs of these threads NEVER seem to state under what circumstances the ammo is being used? How many times have we gone over this...
What are we shooting...?
Why is it the OPs of these threads NEVER seem to state under what circumstances the ammo is being used? How many times have we gone over this...
What are we shooting...?
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
Depends on what we're shooting If there's a good chance someone is wearing soft body armor, I'll take the 5.7
- flyingirish04
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
I have to disagree with you jay. I am very impressed with the HST line of projectiles. Nothing comes close as far as consistent expansion.
That being said, I voted with the ProtecTOR. I truly believe the hydrostatic shock received from that round would out do the impressive expansion of the HST.
That being said, I voted with the ProtecTOR. I truly believe the hydrostatic shock received from that round would out do the impressive expansion of the HST.
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
The round in the poll is not a ProtecTor, but for sake of the question it doesn't really matter too much, same idea... Jay's got the ProtecTor round @ 2092fps - 389 ft/lbs -flyingirish04 wrote:I have to disagree with you jay. I am very impressed with the HST line of projectiles. Nothing comes close as far as consistent expansion.
That being said, I voted with the ProtecTOR. I truly believe the hydrostatic shock received from that round would out do the impressive expansion of the HST.
I left it open ended on purpose. How am I suppose to know what I will be shooting at when a bad situation arises???blueorison wrote:Oh. One of THESE threads again.
Why is it the OPs of these threads NEVER seem to state under what circumstances the ammo is being used? How many times have we gone over this...
What are we shooting...?
----------
I have two options - what is everyones opinion of what they would choose if they had to choose one over the other, going into something unknown...
Last edited by iFire on 26 Jan 2011, 22:52, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
Sorry to bring in such a dark fact, but I think that Malik Hassan and Jarred Laughner just performed a real-world comarison, and the 5.7x28 won hands down.
:facepalm:
:facepalm:
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
I don't pick a caliber in threads like "this vs that", especially all those SHTF scenarios, but I do like the simplicity of your question.
That's a pretty easy question. The number one assumption I would make in a defensive situation is that the threat has to be stopped immediately and as quickly as possible.
The NUMBER ONE priority in an unknown danger situation TO ME, is to put
1. the most rounds on target (A-zone)
2. as quickly as possible
3. and making the first shot count the most in the critical hit zone
the .454 is a great powerful round, but if you miss the first shot, or hit his foot instead of A zone, it does no good, as follow-up shots don't come quickly enough to stop the threat. That is my short enlightenment sentence to using big, high-recoiling calibers in unknown defensive situations. Of course, that doesn't mean I recommend a .22 LR.
Now, if I have to shoot the 9mm with something other than my platforms, like a regular sig (not the P210, which I find a joy to shoot), then I will pick 5.7x28mm anyday, as it only exists in the pistol form with the FsN, and I know I can do it with this pistol. This is because some 9mm guns have different physical characteristics that make them slower for follow-up shots. No matter the shooter, the advantageous of some platforms are simply mechanical and cannot be argued. (For example, you cannot argue that identical guns with identical 9mm ammo that have different lengths of trigger reset can be shot in the same time).
So you inevitably also have to consider the platform (well, I do, anyway), and which you can shoot most efficiently.
If your question is under the assumption that you can shoot just as well with either caliber, I would probably pick the 5.7x28mm, because of the disturbance and fragmentation it creates.
Sorry for the longer post.
That's a pretty easy question. The number one assumption I would make in a defensive situation is that the threat has to be stopped immediately and as quickly as possible.
The NUMBER ONE priority in an unknown danger situation TO ME, is to put
1. the most rounds on target (A-zone)
2. as quickly as possible
3. and making the first shot count the most in the critical hit zone
the .454 is a great powerful round, but if you miss the first shot, or hit his foot instead of A zone, it does no good, as follow-up shots don't come quickly enough to stop the threat. That is my short enlightenment sentence to using big, high-recoiling calibers in unknown defensive situations. Of course, that doesn't mean I recommend a .22 LR.
Now, if I have to shoot the 9mm with something other than my platforms, like a regular sig (not the P210, which I find a joy to shoot), then I will pick 5.7x28mm anyday, as it only exists in the pistol form with the FsN, and I know I can do it with this pistol. This is because some 9mm guns have different physical characteristics that make them slower for follow-up shots. No matter the shooter, the advantageous of some platforms are simply mechanical and cannot be argued. (For example, you cannot argue that identical guns with identical 9mm ammo that have different lengths of trigger reset can be shot in the same time).
So you inevitably also have to consider the platform (well, I do, anyway), and which you can shoot most efficiently.
If your question is under the assumption that you can shoot just as well with either caliber, I would probably pick the 5.7x28mm, because of the disturbance and fragmentation it creates.
Sorry for the longer post.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
I see I'm the only one who voted HST, no scientific reason, it's just what I prefer if I must use a pistol. But out of a SBR, I would take the 5.7.
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- flyingirish04
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
My mistake. Its just that is the only 40gr VMAX that I would ever shoot in that situation.Forest Fire wrote:The round in the poll is not a ProtecTor, but for sake of the question it doesn't really matter too much, same idea... Jay's got the ProtecTor round @ 2092fps - 389 ft/lbs -flyingirish04 wrote:I have to disagree with you jay. I am very impressed with the HST line of projectiles. Nothing comes close as far as consistent expansion.
That being said, I voted with the ProtecTOR. I truly believe the hydrostatic shock received from that round would out do the impressive expansion of the HST.
Last edited by flyingirish04 on 27 Jan 2011, 07:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
SS196?
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
I piss on SS196s and only use 197s for plinking.
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
Being the 5.7 forum there is perhaps an affection for the round others may not share. I just never cared for 9mm.
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
I was going to say, they aren't worth much unless you collect your brass and reload.
The drop on them at 25 yards is sickening. When other rounds are still on the rise, SS196's are already dropping.
I had to try to qualify with them (it was all the SO could find) and adjusting for their being so underpowered caused me to have to run the qual twice. All of my 25 yard and 15 yard shots were low (aiming center mass) and were just outside of the qual line. Once I got inside the 15 yard line, they were pretty much on target.
Nothing wrong with the Hornady 40 gr bullet, they just need to put more 'oomph!' behind it.
The drop on them at 25 yards is sickening. When other rounds are still on the rise, SS196's are already dropping.
I had to try to qualify with them (it was all the SO could find) and adjusting for their being so underpowered caused me to have to run the qual twice. All of my 25 yard and 15 yard shots were low (aiming center mass) and were just outside of the qual line. Once I got inside the 15 yard line, they were pretty much on target.
Nothing wrong with the Hornady 40 gr bullet, they just need to put more 'oomph!' behind it.
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
SS196 has a muzzle velocity of what - maybe ~ 1600 fps?Cyberfly wrote:SS196?
These are MY personal loads with a muzzle velocity of 2050fps... NOT SS196
Anyway - ProtecTor or My load - same idea - powerful 5.7 round...
You got it. All assumptions equal, only variable is the round being used...Blueorison wrote:If your question is under the assumption that you can shoot just as well with either caliber, and I am using my guns; even though I am able to produce the same times and accuracy with both, I would probably pick the 5.7x28mm, because of the disturbance and fragmentation it creates.
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
blueorison wrote:I don't pick a caliber in threads like "this vs that", especially all those SHTF scenarios, but I do like the simplicity of your question.
That's a pretty easy question. The number one assumption I would make in a defensive situation is that the threat has to be stopped immediately and as quickly as possible.
The NUMBER ONE priority in an unknown danger situation TO ME, is to put
1. the most rounds on target (A-zone)
2. as quickly as possible
3. and making the first shot count the most in the critical hit zone
the .454 is a great powerful round, but if you miss the first shot, or hit his foot instead of A zone, it does no good, as follow-up shots don't come quickly enough to stop the threat. That is my short enlightenment sentence to using big, high-recoiling calibers in unknown defensive situations. Of course, that doesn't mean I recommend a .22 LR.
Now, if I have to shoot the 9mm with something other than my platforms, like a regular sig (not the P210, which I find a joy to shoot), then I will pick 5.7x28mm anyday, as it only exists in the pistol form with the FsN, and I know I can do it with this pistol. This is because some 9mm guns have different physical characteristics that make them slower for follow-up shots. No matter the shooter, the advantageous of some platforms are simply mechanical and cannot be argued. (For example, you cannot argue that identical guns with identical 9mm ammo that have different lengths of trigger reset can be shot in the same time).
So you inevitably also have to consider the platform (well, I do, anyway), and which you can shoot most efficiently.
If your question is under the assumption that you can shoot just as well with either caliber, I would probably pick the 5.7x28mm, because of the disturbance and fragmentation it creates.
Sorry for the longer post.
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
Well, I'd prefer to have the 5.7x28. Cause I don't have a 9mm to put those bullets in :lmao:
But really, I just like everything about the FsN and its round. Until they make a 20+1 1911 chambered in .45 ACP the FsN has a place in my lineup. Hell, even after that.
But really, I just like everything about the FsN and its round. Until they make a 20+1 1911 chambered in .45 ACP the FsN has a place in my lineup. Hell, even after that.
Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
50/50, cause I'd prefer my 5.7 but the odds are if I needed to use one it would be the HST. No Kahr PM57 available :p
If it were full size vs full size I'd give the edge to the 5.7 but not by much.
If it were full size vs full size I'd give the edge to the 5.7 but not by much.
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
They already make one. STIPainKillaX wrote:Well, I'd prefer to have the 5.7x28. Cause I don't have a 9mm to put those bullets in :lmao:
But really, I just like everything about the FsN and its round. Until they make a 20+1 1911 chambered in .45 ACP the FsN has a place in my lineup. Hell, even after that.
@Freeze: shut up you troll :thumb:
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
I'm 100% certain that he did not use HST. I would ascertain he used WWB FMJ. One idiot with a 9mm proves nothing.SeaHawkDriver-B wrote:Sorry to bring in such a dark fact, but I think that Malik Hassan and Jarred Laughner just performed a real-world comarison, and the 5.7x28 won hands down.
:facepalm:
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
I'm glad he didnt use HST...jmz5 wrote:I'm 100% certain that he did not use HST. I would ascertain he used WWB FMJ. One idiot with a 9mm proves nothing.SeaHawkDriver-B wrote:Sorry to bring in such a dark fact, but I think that Malik Hassan and Jarred Laughner just performed a real-world comarison, and the 5.7x28 won hands down.
:facepalm:
Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
He bought his ammo from WM. they don't have HST unless of the 135gr .40 S&W flavor.
Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
Definitely the 5.7 rounds.iFire wrote:In a pinch, what would you prefer?
9mm 147gr. HST @ 1050fps - 360ft/lbs
5.7x28 40gr. Vmax @ 2050fps - 375ft/lbs
I know there are TONS of other options, just looking for the preference between these two :thumb:
Standard pressure 9mm ammo does not impress me at all. I keep the hottest high velocity loads in my HK P7 9mm for defense. Namely Corbon Powrball 100gr+P. It chronos north of 1500fps and 500fpe of energy in my pistol.
For "trail defense" (i do walk blackbear country up in the Pa mtns at times) i use Buffalo Bore 124gr+P+ FMJ flat nose ammo at right about 1350fps and 500fpe of energy for that. I also have some of the Doubletap 147gr+P flat nose FMJ ammo too.
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
I'm a big fan of magazine capacity. Unless the energy from the round GREATLY surpasses the 5.7 round that is being used for comparison (like I can blow an arm off or something :clap: ), I want the gun with the most shots. It's like having more tries at the "shootout slot machine" with the payoff being a hit to the CNS.
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
This was an easy one for me. I have absolutely no use for a 9mm. NATO round designed so no one gets hurt. I'll add one comment that a .45 is a .45 expand or not. if there is a faster delivery system than the 1911 please let me know because i want one. IMHO
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
What common handgun caliber can you "like blow an arm off" with?ShockedNKansas wrote:I'm a big fan of magazine capacity. Unless the energy from the round GREATLY surpasses the 5.7 round that is being used for comparison (like I can blow an arm off or something :clap: ), I want the gun with the most shots. It's like having more tries at the "shootout slot machine" with the payoff being a hit to the CNS.
:skep:
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
Exactly.blueorison wrote:What common handgun caliber can you "like blow an arm off" with?ShockedNKansas wrote:I'm a big fan of magazine capacity. Unless the energy from the round GREATLY surpasses the 5.7 round that is being used for comparison (like I can blow an arm off or something :clap: ), I want the gun with the most shots. It's like having more tries at the "shootout slot machine" with the payoff being a hit to the CNS.
:skep:
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
or
those are the closest i can think of
Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
The .500 S&W......It will actually take off two arms at once - the bad guys arm AND your own arm! :laugh:fzr confused wrote:
those are the closest i can think of
Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
I picked 9mm just because I'm more familiar with it, there's tons of surplus and it's cheaper to buy.
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
This is my take. The 5.7. Why? Because I have 6 20rd mags that I can carry comfortably. There has been enough tests have been done to prove the worthiness of the 5.7. I never needed the test's when I fist seen the P90 and IOM about 8 years ago! I always wanted the pistol variant. It revolutionizes the whole mindset of protection in my opinion. That amount of rds is is a lot of fire power.....id dont care who ya are thats more than enough for any situation one might find themselves in! Accept maybe a 14 ft Kodiak bear lol or grizzly!!!
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
They don't sell Corbon DPX with the Barnes solid copper hollowpoint (also offered as loaded ammo by Doubletap, and soon by Buffalo bore at true +P+ energy levels) where you live?flyingirish04 wrote:I have to disagree with you jay. I am very impressed with the HST line of projectiles. Nothing comes close as far as consistent expansion.
The Barnes SCHP expands like gangbusters.
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
Most of the time I leave the house I have my PF9 loaded with 147gr HST +Ps... That being said, I do not like 9mm, its just that the gun is so convient to carry.
Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
:agree:fzr confused wrote:
those are the closest i can think of
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Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?
Shot a 2" snub S&W 500.
I love that revolver. It is beaaaaaaautiful!
I love that revolver. It is beaaaaaaautiful!
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
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