5.7 is an overpriced .22WMR !!!

[PeterGunn]

When someone says that the 5.7 is nothing more than an overpriced, underpowered pistol chambered in what is essentially a centerfire version of a .22 Magnum rimfire, jusy how do you respond ??

I'm not really looking to educate the masses, but I do have a few know-it-all friends who need to be properly informed.

And I figure this isn't the first time this has come up. I'd like to be able to share 2 rebuttals, simple and technical as well. So ... what do you tell them ??

[Llagoud]

I get tired of arguing with fools, I just agree.

"Yep you're right" :laugh:

That really pisses off someone that wants puff up their chest and argue.
Especially since they know I do not agree and I think they are a fool. :lmao:

[PainKillaX]

Step 1: :facepalm:
Step 2: :lmao:
Step 3: :gavel:

Then lay down the facts. You have a pistol that is:
-Lightweight
-High capacity
-Extremely accurate
-Low recoil
-Fires the same bullet as a .223/5.56x45 NATO
-Has numerous loads available (if not from the factory)

Factory rounds ARE very underpowered. However, Jay loads up some HOT rounds. If I remember correctly at ~2000fps the bullet creates devastating wound channels, yes?

[EARS]

"If it's so little, under powered, etc, do you mind holding this target for me and step down range?" :guns:

[darksidemxer]

Show tthem that all the 22wmr comparison data is done out of a freaking rifle....and that the 5.7 is a pistol that still yields better results and that the ammo used in most test shown is the "sissy" ss197. Also show them some of the meat chunks the 5.7 has blown open...or go into the hunting section and find some photos of the things its dropped *in my case the wound cavity I found after cutting it open* or just laugh at them and say "believe what u want"

[flyingirish04]

I just tell them then don't buy one, more for me.

[SeaHawkDriver-B]

I find a lot of irony in a statement like that. Mostly becuase we all know that if a more 'traditional' weapon manufacturer ever created and released their own pistol chambered in .22WMR or a .17HMR it would be HAILED from the far corners of the gun world as the best thing since sliced bread. Heck they'd probably just call iw the .223 short magnum or some variation thereof. A straight-shooting varmit caliber high-capaicity polymer semi-auto that can be double fun as a plinker, a common caliber backup gun to their favorite brush rifle, and a unique self-defense round with anti-armor potential. You'd have every slack-jawed yocal gun writer east of Montana drumming up stories of how its the best coyote-defense gun they've ever picked up, and long-bearded reloader types with stashed hordes of 1911 .45's and Colt Peacemakers scrambling to load their own rounds and publish results.

BUT.... BUT.... that isn't the case. Its not the case becuase of one simple reason: it wasn't "their" idea. A foreign manufacturer, albeit one with heavy ties to John Moses Browning, came up with the theory and saw it to fruition by themselves. They put a revolutionary round into a revolutionary pistol, shipped-it overseas, and gave it a funky name. The result of all that is why we have so much unfounded animosity to what is probably one of the best modern handguns on the face of the Earth.

So the next time somebody tells you its just an overblown .22WMR, or a slow fat .17HMR.... just say. "I wish they'd chamber a pistol *namely the one they have in their hand* in that, it'd be one HELL of a gun!".

[Buffman]

Per my steel plate .22WMR from a pistol hardly left a mark. Even Factory SS197SR did more damage to it. I wish I would have had the AMT Automag II to test some solids on that level II I had.

[blueorison]

I get tired of arguing with fools, I just agree.

"Yep you're right" :laugh:

That really pisses off someone that wants puff up their chest and argue.
Especially since they know I do not agree and I think they are a fool. :lmao:

^ Yeap!

That's what I do. It really shocks them, because they expect you to argue back.

You can bring the horse to the water, but you can't make her drink.

I'm tired of bringing the horse to the water, though. I just let her parch.

Now if they ask questions, I answer it truthfully and politely. But if they just want to berate me and try to get a reaction, all they will get is a losing score once the match starts.

[Mister Freeze]

"which would you rather be shot with?"

Buy them a 22Mag and trade fo r a 5.7.

[mabbott74]

Show them this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0npFXEHfeA0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It shows FN rounds (factory loads) out of a hand gun out performing 22 magnum rounds fired out of a rifle.

[DmL5]

When someone says that the 5.7 is nothing more than an overpriced, underpowered pistol chambered in what is essentially a centerfire version of a .22 Magnum rimfire, jusy how do you respond ??

Kel-Tec claims only 1,230 ft/s with a 40 grain bullet from their new .22 WMR pistol, the PMR-30; this gives a resulting muzzle energy of 134 ft/lbs. Combat Handguns chronographed EA's 5.7x28mm Protector at over 2,000 ft/s from the Five-seveN pistol, again with a 40 grain bullet; this gives a resulting muzzle energy of 355+ ft/lbs.

The velocity difference between the two is nearly 800 ft/s; the EA 5.7x28mm load is about 65% faster than the .22 WMR and produces nearly three times the muzzle energy. Even FN's SS197SR has a muzzle velocity about 500 ft/s higher than the .22 WMR. These are all pistol to pistol comparisons, with similar barrel lengths and identical bullet weights.

The .22 WMR velocity increases significantly when it's fired out of a rifle, but so does the velocity of 5.7x28mm out of the P90 or PS90. The new 5.7x28mm firearms being developed by Excel Arms and Savage Arms utilize longer barrels (18-24 inches), so they will put the 5.7x28mm even further ahead of the .22 WMR. Most .22 WMR chronograph tests you will find online are using rifles with 20+ inch barrel lengths.

[ynoty3k]

When someone says that the 5.7 is nothing more than an overpriced, underpowered pistol chambered in what is essentially a centerfire version of a .22 Magnum rimfire, jusy how do you respond ??

Kel-Tec claims only 1,230 ft/s with a 40 grain bullet from their new .22 WMR pistol, the PMR-30; this gives a resulting muzzle energy of 134 ft/lbs. Combat Guns chronographed EA's 5.7x28mm Protector at over 2,000 ft/s from the Five-seveN pistol, again with a 40 grain bullet; this gives a resulting muzzle energy of 355+ ft/lbs.

The velocity difference between the two is nearly 800 ft/s; the EA 5.7x28mm load is about 65% faster than the .22 WMR and produces nearly three times the muzzle energy. Even FN's SS197SR has a muzzle velocity about 500 ft/s higher than the .22 WMR. These are all pistol to pistol comparisons, with similar barrel lengths and identical bullet weights.

The .22 WMR velocity increases significantly when it's fired out of a rifle, but so does the velocity of 5.7x28mm out of the P90 or PS90. The new 5.7x28mm firearms being developed by Excel Arms and Savage Arms utilize longer barrels (18-24 inches), so they will put the 5.7x28mm even further ahead of the .22 WMR. Most .22 WMR chronograph tests you will find online are using rifles with 20+ inch barrel lengths.

.... are... are you a ghost?

P.s. You can finally sell items on the forum. You might be the slowest person to ever hit 50 posts! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[blueorison]

Actually, DmL is a very old member from back in the old forum days, and he can always sell items, because he's a supporting member

@ DmL: I like your avatar, sir! It's simple and clean. Two things I look for on a firearm; simplicity of use, and robustness.

[Cyberfly]

DmL has been around since BEFORE I was around. He's probably forgotten more about this platform than I'll ever know.
That said, some people simply can't wrap their minds around just WHAT this weapon truly is. Whenever people ask this question, I'm always reminded of the last time I had to qualify with mine.
The Rangemaster saw the barrel of the weapon and threw a fit! LEO's can't qualify with no #$* .22's! They aren't allowed! I quietly explained to him that it wasn't a .22, that this was a 5.7 X 28MM and that the Sheriff had authorized it. That should have shut him up because once your Sheriff authorized a weapon, that's it, but...it WAS his range. 'What the hell is a 5.7 by whatever the hell?' I tried to explain that it was a low weight, hi-velocity round, fired from a high capacity weapon with superior knock-down and created a nasty wound channel, but he ignored me and stomped off muttering to himself.
When we were preparing to load our weapons and make ready on the range, he had to see mine. Once he did, he threw another fit. 'Thats rifle ammunition! You can't be firing rifle ammunition on my range!' I showed him my weapon. It clearly was a pistol with a 4" barrel. So I asked him, 'WTF is it? A .22 or a f#$%*ng rifle?'
We exchanged a few snotty words, he threatened to not let me qualify, I threatened to sic the Sheriff on him, he eventually let me shoot. But when I did, he AND his assistant Rangemaster were on either side of me. After the first three rounds were fired, I heard his assistant tell him, 'That ain't no damned .22!'
Some people just have to learn for themselves. Some learn harder than others. Some never learn.
Some are just jealous.
Some just can't wrap their minds around the concept.
Those of us who can get to enjoy the fruits of our open-mindedness! hehehe

[jmz5]

Factory rounds ARE very underpowered.

I get sick of seeing that statement every day. Someone just recently took down a hog with one of these so called under powered rounds. :facepalm:

http://fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=9408" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Cyberfly]

Maybe people are just getting used to Jay's rounds?

[darksidemxer]

Lol I love showing people my hogg pics and they always ask, "what rifle did u use" I tell them the fsn and they stare in disbelief lol

[sabotteur]

We just remind them of the carnage of Ft. Hood. That usually shuts them up.

[darksidemxer]

I stopped using tthat one because I got tired of the "he had restricted ammo" or the "a marine can kill with a dart gun they are so good" arguments

[PainKillaX]

Factory rounds ARE very underpowered.

I get sick of seeing that statement every day. Someone just recently took down a hog with one of these so called under powered rounds. :facepalm:

http://fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=9408" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes I know, and it's happened a few other times. I suppose I've fallen on a bandwagon, as that statement or a variation is posted on the forum constantly. And I probably am not helping when I say it discussing ammunition too. I personally like my 197. It's nice to shoot paper and I'm sure it can handle large rodents and small game (I'm sure because there's proof). I'd prefer some EA but if it was 197 between me and a baddie, 197 is better than dirt and I bet it would do its job.

You have to admit though, seeing what Jay can do, you'd think FN could make something just a wee bit hotter. Why would they make their rounds go slower over time rather than faster? Other than all that "cop killer" round rubbish.

[ddouglas]

Perhaps FN does make something a wee bit hotter. What about the performance of the LE rounds? Has that data been posted here?

[PainKillaX]

Perhaps FN does make something a wee bit hotter. What about the performance of the LE rounds? Has that data been posted here?

While I am extremely curious on this topic, I meant for Average Joe.

[ynoty3k]

I know the story, I was just joking around.

Blue: I don't remember saying anything requiring editing but oookay.

[KiloTrooper]

I would just reply with "I pity your ignorance." and move on to another subject. It ain't worth it and don't mean nuthin.

Kilo

[04WRX]

Its funny because this statment 99% of the time comes from somone who does not own a 5.7 and is just jelious. I just smile and say haters gon hate. Fighting these people is like a farting into a tornado its just pointless

[blueorison]

Its funny because this statment 99% of the time comes from somone who does now own a 5.7 and is just jelious. I just smile and say haters gon hate. Fighting these people is like a farting into a tornado its just pointless

Not if my fart is like a .50 cal and yours is like a .22 magnum.



I agree. I just smile and let them talk. They inevitably run out of boring stereotypes and fallacies to spout about the 5.7, then they ask me what I think. I tell them, "Oh, I guess pretty much all that you said."

Throws them off. Real off.

[04WRX]

hahaha ive told people that it shoots a .22 super ultra mag and they always think thats the coolest.