Bad day at the gun show

Discuss the politics behind the gun industry.
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Mister Freeze
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Bad day at the gun show

Post by Mister Freeze » 20 Jan 2013, 06:29

3 accidental shootings at gun shows yesterday, 2 at the weapons checkpoint at the door. Too many people trying to beat the ban, many of whom aren't ready for a gun yet, are going to create an increase in these accidents, fueling the fire. :facepalm:

nrv216
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Re: Bad day at the gun show

Post by nrv216 » 20 Jan 2013, 13:29

Libtard at work made sure to point that out to me.
:facepalm:
nrv216

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Re: Bad day at the gun show

Post by Driller » 21 Jan 2013, 06:24

I don't go to those things because of the unknown amount of gun safety some folks are aware of. In door gun ranges are off my list also. When I can see bullet holes on the walls next to your lane at an indoor range you have to wonder who the idiot was that did that and is he on the lane next to you today?

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Re: Bad day at the gun show

Post by blueorison » 21 Jan 2013, 14:39

Gun shows have too many backward, uneducated thinkers and mall ninjas.

Both of which are horribly adverse to your health and well-being, physically, and mentally.

It is all too often that firearm owners assume that other firearm owners belong in some special camp that makes the acceptable into their "tents". What they don't realize is that firearm owners are just normal population that purchased or happen to own firearms. They are just as susceptible to non-firearm owner statistics of being unsafe, stupid, arrogant, Call-of-Duty-idiots, and accepting of many other adjectives, as others of the public domain, are.

In fact, all-too-often these negative traits are exacerbated by their ownership of a firearm. Quite depressing, really.

I always decline, politely, when invited.

I've been to 3, in the past, and haven't gone in the past 3 years.

There are many awesome people at gun shows. However, the cost-benefit is such that the masses outweigh the few, in my experience. If you are planning to attend a gun-show, I wish upon you that your experiences be worlds more positive than mine. :thumb: :cya:
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
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Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
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Re: Bad day at the gun show

Post by The Keymaster » 25 Jan 2013, 03:32

I was at the Indy 1500 gun show last weekend. Apparently the guy that shot himself was reloading his pistol while walking to his car. I just can't fathom the stupidity. Responsible gun owners really need idiots like this right now. There is an ND at virtually every Indy 1500. Last year a dealer shot himself while in the building.

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Re: Bad day at the gun show

Post by toyslr » 25 Jan 2013, 07:13

As 2nd amendment advocates and experienced owners its our duty to assist "newbies" not to take them by the hand but if someone has TRUE interest in learning then we should help them gain the knowledge it takes. I've worked many gun shows and saw the mall ninjas, rambo wanna-bes, and the internet wonders. But I have also meet some VERY experienced shooters and made some good friends. AS many of you know, I am also in the car business and am an avivd racer. You see the same things at the drag strip as you do at the shows. Just because someone can afford to build a 10 second car, it doesn't mean they should be driving it at full speed down the track

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Re: Bad day at the gun show

Post by FN574me » 30 Jan 2013, 21:51

It's not only gunshows. Recently some LEO guy discharged a gun intercepted by a TSA agent. I forget which airport that was at. TSA called the law, and the LEO was trying to secure and clear the handgun. He probably forgot about one of the cardinal rules, finger off the trigger until you are ready to take the shot. People are people and will make mistakes.

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Re: Bad day at the gun show

Post by blueorison » 30 Jan 2013, 22:03

FN574me wrote:It's not only gunshows. Recently some LEO guy discharged a gun intercepted by a TSA agent. I forget which airport that was at. TSA called the law, and the LEO was trying to secure and clear the handgun. He probably forgot about one of the cardinal rules, finger off the trigger until you are ready to take the shot. People are people and will make mistakes.
Forget is the incorrect verbiage, IMHO.

Poor training, inadequate training, poor practice, lack of correct mindset.

People run around at full tilt with loaded handguns, around barriers, barricades, obstacles, everyday in competition. Only the unsafe ones (easy to spot) get DQ'd.

He was standing still, in a controlled environment.

However, I wasn't there, so I'm just speaking from paper, from what was written.

I'm not saying this applies to you, but usually those who have committed the grievous error find it easier to empathize with others who have. I'm not claiming perfection or that I'm above such a crime.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

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Re: Bad day at the gun show

Post by toyslr » 31 Jan 2013, 08:53

How many rounds down range do you think Michael Bane from Personal Defense T.V. and many other firearms related shows has down range?
Watching last night and in the middle of a reload during a .22 rimfire challenge he blew a ND down range. Instant DQ but it happens, if you spend
enough time at the range or fire enough rounds, somewhere someway it will catch you atleast once.

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Re: Bad day at the gun show

Post by panzermk2 » 31 Jan 2013, 09:23

toyslr wrote:How many rounds down range do you think Michael Bane from Personal Defense T.V. and many other firearms related shows has down range?
Watching last night and in the middle of a reload during a .22 rimfire challenge he blew a ND down range. Instant DQ but it happens, if you spend
enough time at the range or fire enough rounds, somewhere someway it will catch you atleast once.

Not as much as me and I have avoided an ND. I have very strict rules about testing ammo and when a firearm will be discharged. If it is varied in the slightest the person will get a serous ass reaming from me. Well I have only one other person who tests ammo and He follows the rules very closely.
Jay Wolf
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Re: Bad day at the gun show

Post by blueorison » 31 Jan 2013, 09:29

toyslr wrote:How many rounds down range do you think Michael Bane from Personal Defense T.V. and many other firearms related shows has down range?
Watching last night and in the middle of a reload during a .22 rimfire challenge he blew a ND down range. Instant DQ but it happens, if you spend
enough time at the range or fire enough rounds, somewhere someway it will catch you atleast once.
I don't know who Michael Bane is, Toys. I don't have a TV.

Competition shooters, amateurs and professionals, spread around this quip: "There are only 2 kinds of shooters; those who have been DQ'd, and those who will be". Everytime someone says that near me or to me, I do not endorse it.

I understand that they are saying that there is a high percentage that someone who has shot for a long time will slip up and ND, break the 180 line, etc. Very famous and top shooters will repeat this line.

Even though I understand what they're saying, that statement in itself can easily be misconstrued by people who don't know what they're trying to say; it could be mistaken for an affirmation instead of a warning.

I don't repeat it to anyone. Even if one day, I get DQ'd, I'll never repeat it to anyone. TO ME, the statement comes from a selfish and self-righteous place. And I dislike selfish more than anything. Selfish one of the main reasons our society and this generation saddens me. Selfishness is one of the major reasons our children are screwed-up. Parents spend more time and consideration on themselves than their kids. I'm sure what I've said here will be misconstrued. That's why I don't ever talk about the statement and how I feel about it when people say it around me. I just walk away, because I understand what they're saying, and everyone says it. I just don't embrace its origins.

:ponder:
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

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Hobknob
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Re: Bad day at the gun show

Post by Hobknob » 31 Jan 2013, 13:09

I used to work the International Handgunner Comperition and most years somebody would get DQ'd for an AD/ND....some were just tards, some were strong, sharp competitors.

Only remember one guy actually shooting himself though....granted he only had one arm and in order to rack the slide, he would rake the gun against his chest. Gun snagged on his shirt or slipped a little and he dropped it. He managed to catch it pretty quick, but in the process he accidentally inserted his finger in the trigger guard and "caught" the gun as it was pointed at his leg (resulting in an unintended perforation).

Special curcumstances sometimes arise.
BTW, he was agreat shot and left plenty of symmetric folks in the dust when he was running the various stages.
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Re: Bad day at the gun show

Post by toyslr » 31 Jan 2013, 13:55

If you haven't had it happen you will, if you don't think you will or it can't then I hope you atleast keep your muzzle down range...

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Re: Bad day at the gun show

Post by blueorison » 31 Jan 2013, 15:55

I have a lot of respect for that guy who only had one arm/hand. It takes a lot of mental and physical prowess and confidence to do what he did. However, you should never catch a falling gun. I would take the DQ from a loaded gun on the ground rather than risk being unsafe. I have dropped a gun before; but it was at home, empty; I don't keep them loaded. I had to stop my instinct to catch it, and let it fall to the ground, even though it was a cold gun. I've seen a shooter drop a gun after tripping over stairs; it was a hot gun; she let it fall and took the DQ because she knew it was the safe thing to do.

It happens 99% because people try to go too fast, and exceed their window of safe operation.

There definitely are factors outside your control. That's the other 1%. The fact is that most of it is in your control.

One of the match directors shot himself in the knee. If you ask him, he'll tell you it was his fault. Then I've seen people's guns go off on their own, with no fingers in the trigger guard. They chose to "risk" taking down their 1911/2011 trigger to 1.5 lbs and that was the result. They subsequently went back to 2.5-3lb triggers. It was still their decision, in the first place.

If you make the decision to operate outside your abilities to remain safe, it's on you.

I tone it back and don't try to go "high speed low drag" unless I am certain I can handle it.

Most of the time, that means thousands of rounds down-range to know your capabilities. I don't have that luxury, so I don't go there.

I don't wish to argue with any of you. I don't like arguing. These days, I'd rather keep my opinions to myself than submit to contention.

Telling someone "If it hasn't happened to you, it will", in regards to an ND? It's not the same as "If you haven't got in a car accident, you will". The latter is perfectly acceptable and logical, and not at all negative. You don't have the appearance (to even a stranger) of wishing harm upon them, as there are MANY drivers on the road, and you aren't saying they would be at fault. They could be hit from behind from someone else, etc.

Telling someone that "You will have an ND" is completely different. It's on them. There is no one else at the range that you can hold accountable unless someone actually physically accosts them and causes their gun to go off, unintentionally.

I've already said more than I should, and wanted. I don't ever bring this up when my friends I shoot with mention that little cute phrase... "There are 2 kinds of shooters...". I know it's a waste of my breath and an argument.

It's just negative energy and I'm a positive person. What I say is that "There are people that CARE to try to be safe, and others - consciously or subconsciously - that do not care."

As Jay once told me; it's not what you're saying, it's the delivery. I get what you guys and what my friends I shoot with are saying. Truth or not, it doesn't matter because their delivery is so negative.

:cya:
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

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Re: Bad day at the gun show

Post by SHEEPDOG » 31 Jan 2013, 17:36

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