Libyan and Afghan Wars

FSNTAC · Post by **FSNTAC** » 13 Feb 2012, 20:06

Why did the U.S. get involved in Afghanistan and later on Libya?

Was Afghanistan not about oil and gas pipelines to China? And ultimately Heroin?

Was the Libyan war not about "defending" the dollar?

Has anyone here been in Afghanistan protecting the poppy fields?

ryr8828 · Post by **ryr8828** » 14 Feb 2012, 15:07

Please lose this clown.

Thedirtyheat · Post by **Thedirtyheat** » 14 Feb 2012, 15:24

You will always be able to find negative reasons and twist for everything maybe some of them are true, and everyone is entitled to think what they think, just a little curious with where you are hoping to take this or for this to go? Seems to me like you are just trying to start an argument over nothing pointlessly. If there were a reason for this post I could understand more and possibly give some good insight but seems as though there isn't but maybe I'm missing it?

Post by **MrSlippyFist** » 14 Feb 2012, 15:38

Oil and gas pipelines to China? WTF? You got any sources?

SeaHawkDriver-B · Post by **SeaHawkDriver-B** » 14 Feb 2012, 16:16

I oppose any notion of what is a defacto politically-run war in Afghanistan. Screw Afghanistan, the conditions there are being misreported by the media, and snubbed by the brass. Its a bad situation, the taliban rule anything and everything outside of the ISAF areas. They don't want our values, they don't want democracy, and frankly, neither do I. Democracy is a failed experiment, only a republican form of government has any chance at greatness.

The sooner the US pulls out of A-stan and lets those ungreatful and corrupt freaks rot in their own filth the better.

Ariac · Post by **Ariac** » 14 Feb 2012, 16:35

I don't think that walking away is really that great of an option. Walking away from a mess that we helped create, will only serve to create a bigger issue down the line. Hell that is part of what got us into this whole mess.

As far as democracy being a failed experiment is pretty much a given. Look back to Athens and the whole ostricism process if you want some insight. I think our founding fathers hit pay dirt with the construction of a democratic republic. The Constitution provides for the "thing of the people" ie the republic part. The democratic part is intigral in the running of a government, since not all things can be enumerated in such a document as a Constitution. Rather we must use it to guide the democratic process. Our problem in my opinion is that we have stop using it as a guide, but rather not see it as a old piece of paper. Americans need to realize that adherance to the principles laid down are integral to keeping us who we are, and we must make our politicians adhere to them. (ymmv)

FSNTAC · Post by **FSNTAC** » 27 Feb 2012, 23:23

MrSlippyFist wrote:Oil and gas pipelines to China? WTF? You got any sources?

Yes. Human source a sniper in Afghanistan.

Look it up.

Did you know that cash for clunkers was a USG program to send China our steel, because we are China's [profanity].

FSNTAC · Post by **FSNTAC** » 27 Feb 2012, 23:33

ryr8828 wrote:Please lose this clown.

Really? I am a clown for posting in the politics and activism forum, something that I care about and want to share...because I think it is a complete lie being accepted by 99% of Americans like yourself. Open your mind and start questioning what your media and government tells you.

Thedirtyheat · Post by **Thedirtyheat** » 28 Feb 2012, 03:44

Sigh a sniper in afghan is this marky mark in the shooter ? Haha sounds familiar hahaha! Like you're sources for this are just not there it would seem like and you are just hoping to stir up controversy. Like honestly I would love to hear what your sources are other then sniper from a movie. You honestly sound like a 16 year old who has watched to many movies and maybe read some really crappy sources. Really..... Sigh you know what I won't waste my time or knowledge on someone so ignorant? Or I don't even really have a work to described you other then a stupid idiot.

Website · Post by **jgreenberg01** » 28 Feb 2012, 05:07

Thedirtyheat · Post by **Thedirtyheat** » 28 Feb 2012, 05:16

Congrats your source of a cat is more reliable then his, because atleast that's real hahaha

Website · Post by **jgreenberg01** » 28 Feb 2012, 05:41

Thedirtyheat wrote:Congrats your source of a cat is more reliable then his, because atleast that's real hahaha

I posted that meme simply because I believe that cats are responsible for the wars in Libya, Afghanastan and Iraq. It's a little known fact that Pat Tillman was killed by a cat. The economy is in the toilet due to cats... or should I say Kats?!?!?

I don't even think that cat is American... I believe it was from a litter in Kenya.

All of this is true because I posted it on the interwebs.

I'm just sayin'...

Post by **MrSlippyFist** » 28 Feb 2012, 07:45

FSNTAC wrote:
MrSlippyFist wrote:Oil and gas pipelines to China? WTF? You got any sources?

Yes. Human source a sniper in Afghanistan.

Look it up.

Did you know that cash for clunkers was a USG program to send China our steel, because we are China's [profanity].

Sniper for which team?

If you're so scared take some Mandarin language classes.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 28 Feb 2012, 10:08

Keep it civil, we can do this without the name calling

flyingirish04 · Post by **flyingirish04** » 28 Feb 2012, 12:04

SeaHawkDriver-B wrote:I oppose any notion of what is a defacto politically-run war in Afghanistan. Screw Afghanistan, the conditions there are being misreported by the media, and snubbed by the brass. Its a bad situation, the taliban rule anything and everything outside of the ISAF areas. They don't want our values, they don't want democracy, and frankly, neither do I. Democracy is a failed experiment, only a republican form of government has any chance at greatness.

The sooner the US pulls out of A-stan and lets those ungreatful and corrupt freaks rot in their own filth the better.

That isn't actually correct. Save a small part of the country that is pretty brutal, the majority of Afghanistan is in better shape then before we came. Not to mention its geographic strategic position in the world. If we are able to come to some kind of normalcy over there, it is a pretty solid mission.

The media is trying to say it is failed, but that isn't actually true. It will never be America, but to say it isn't getting better is simply not know what they heck you are talking about. At all.

They are corrupt, but no more so than Pakistan, India, Jordan, or Malaysia. They are probably less corrupt and morally bankrupt than China and Russia. We can't continue to look at it and compare to the US. We need to look at it and compare it to the rest of the 3rd world.

As far as getting out, I will leave that to the opinion of Patreaus and Odierno. I worked for those guys in the surge in Iraq and they understand COIN. As far as I am concerned, as long as they think we need to be there, I am supporting we stay. They say go, I say go.

CenCalSplicer · Post by **CenCalSplicer** » 29 Feb 2012, 22:19

jgreenberg01 wrote:
Thedirtyheat wrote:Congrats your source of a cat is more reliable then his, because atleast that's real hahaha
I posted that meme simply because I believe that cats are responsible for the wars in Libya, Afghanastan and Iraq. It's a little known fact that Pat Tillman was killed by a cat. The economy is in the toilet due to cats... or should I say Kats?!?!?

I don't even think that cat is American... I believe it was from a litter in Kenya.

All of this is true because I posted it on the interwebs.

I'm just sayin'...

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

SeaHawkDriver-B · Post by **SeaHawkDriver-B** » 01 Mar 2012, 18:24

Ok a 10lb brain in the Pentagon comes up with COIN on the back of a bar napkin and we're supposed to drink the Kool-Aid, I dont think so, and several thousand dead American servicemen and women have paid the ultimate price already. I've worked with plenyt of stars, and sat in on the VTC's taking notes... let me tell you something about generals, and admirals. They might be great leaders, but they're just men. They're not Gods, their not geniuses, they're just men.

This has nothing to do with catch phrases or politcal quack speak about strategic places in the world, it has to do with the straight-up no-<profanity removed> belief system as to whether or not we should be involved in politically-run wars. Whatever you want to believe is fine with you. Having our soldiers picked-off onsies-twosies is a disgrace and a sham. <profanity removed> Afghanistan. Thats what they say about us, its time we return the favor.

flyingirish04 · Post by **flyingirish04** » 01 Mar 2012, 19:44

Seahawk, once again, you are coming from a completely intellectually dishonest frame of mind. Yet you bark on.

Anyway, no crap, flag and general officers are just men. In fact some I look at as less then men. Casey I wouldn't piss on if he was on fire. That charlie foxtrot of a man is accountable for several of my friends and unit members deaths due to his incompetence. Oh, and I actually briefed him a few times in Iraq. Once, I told him he was out of his mind on a certain issue, and I was right. He dismissed me from the room, but couldn't challenge me directly being the coward that he was. Instead he had is COS chew out my Cell Colonel I was adcon to at the time. But, guess what, the FragO never was dropped on my desk. If it did, I would have had to bite the bullet.

And it has everything to do with strategy and geographic superiority of bases and deployed forces. And guess what, war is political, ALWAYS. That is one of the main reasons it is complete hell. Remember, as an American professional warfighter, you don't get to pick your wars. Only mercenaries do. You should keep that in mind if you really are a 60 driver and Naval Officer.

But until you check yourself and recognize who the heck you are speaking too like some belligerent ingrate, you are always going to get flack for what you say. Patreaus and Odi EARNED my respect by being conventional guys that thought unconventionally and ran a real COIN op that worked. SO they have it in spades.

When they say the mission is over, I will support that. I care little for the ranting of who is little more than a chihuahua with a spiked collar trying to pretend he is some kind of junkyard dog.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 01 Mar 2012, 20:39

flyingirish04 wrote:Casey I wouldn't piss on if he was on fire.

But would you if he wasn't on fire? :ponder:

flyingirish04 · Post by **flyingirish04** » 01 Mar 2012, 21:31

Yep. Unless he liked it...then no.

Thedirtyheat · Post by **Thedirtyheat** » 02 Mar 2012, 03:41

Hahaha, I have to agree with Irish here, coin was adopted by the army because SOF units were using it and it was yielding extremely effective results and someone had the balls and thought process to say these guys are doing this let's try it on a bigger scale and it has worked much better then anything being done before

SeaHawkDriver-B · Post by **SeaHawkDriver-B** » 02 Mar 2012, 14:25

flyingirish04 wrote:Seahawk, once again, you are coming from a completely intellectually dishonest frame of mind. Yet you bark on.

Anyway, no crap, flag and general officers are just men. In fact some I look at as less then men. Casey I wouldn't piss on if he was on fire. That charlie foxtrot of a man is accountable for several of my friends and unit members deaths due to his incompetence. Oh, and I actually briefed him a few times in Iraq. Once, I told him he was out of his mind on a certain issue, and I was right. He dismissed me from the room, but couldn't challenge me directly being the coward that he was. Instead he had is COS chew out my Cell Colonel I was adcon to at the time. But, guess what, the FragO never was dropped on my desk. If it did, I would have had to bite the bullet.

And it has everything to do with strategy and geographic superiority of bases and deployed forces. And guess what, war is political, ALWAYS. That is one of the main reasons it is complete hell. Remember, as an American professional warfighter, you don't get to pick your wars. Only mercenaries do. You should keep that in mind if you really are a 60 driver and Naval Officer.

But until you check yourself and recognize who the heck you are speaking too like some belligerent ingrate, you are always going to get flack for what you say. Patreaus and Odi EARNED my respect by being conventional guys that thought unconventionally and ran a real COIN op that worked. SO they have it in spades.

When they say the mission is over, I will support that. I care little for the ranting of who is little more than a chihuahua with a spiked collar trying to pretend he is some kind of junkyard dog.

You find a way make every post that someone gets passionate about... about YOU, don't you. This isn't about you, or about me, with your snide insults. Its about the wars in Afghanistan. You really come across as some sort of territorial buck that hears antler-rattling in the woods, and comes and pisses on everyone when his "due respect" isn't given.

YOU AGREEING WITH WHAT I POST IS NOT A PRE-REQUISITE FOR THE VALIDITY OF ITS CONTENT; NOR DOES IT NECESSIATE YOU TRYING TO OUT-PISS EVERYONE IN THE CONTEST.

Here on the internet, your personal credentials, whomever you are, do not transgress into you always being right. This is the internet, its anonymous, faceless, nameless, and 90% of the information on it is just as false and bogus as shoe polish writing on a used car lot.

I admit, in the real world, you out-do me in every category, you're some super black ops guru who knows everyone and maybe you played patty-cake with CENTCOM for sixteen years straight.. or .. maybe you did nothing of the sort. I don't care, it doesn't matter. On here, you're just an electronic text box like everyone else. Regardless, off the the content of the OP, which is Afghanistan... not how awesome you are.

You and I, are fundamentally NOT going to agree here, period. I believe that the that the wars in A-stan and others similar are not worth the price in blood the US is paying for it, plain and simple. Thousands upon thousands of caskets coming home via C-17, with no end in sight. No use of overwhelming force, no end game, no definition of victory.... just an ongoing game of politically-limited war, occupation, and insurgency where our soldiers continue to get picked-off onesies/twosies day by day, week by week, year by year, decade by decade. I do not agree with it, and never will. You, in some sense, seem to support it, and thats fine by me. You're entitled to your opinion and I'm not going to try and insult you or pound my chest with who I "say" I am, or what I claim to know, to try and convince you otherwise.

You can check the insults and name calling if anyone here needs to 'check' something; the chiuaua with the spiked collar comment was uncalled-for, so was your remark about being a belligerent ingrate who "doesn't recognize who I'm talking to"... oh, OK Mr. internet text box, lets everyone stop, take two steps backwards, and kiss your rear end for a little bit before we DARE post something you dont like. What I put on the internet is nothing more than raw and unfiltered opinion for all to read. Again, you agreeing with it, is not a pre-requisite for its validity. Its a text box, and nothing more. What you can "check" at the door is your personal lecturing. Yes, thank you Professor Von Clauswitz, all war is indeed politics by other means. Thats not to say that this 'war', which is a BLATANT disregard of the constitution (yeah, remember that document you're sworn to support and defend?), is nothing but an extremely limited political use of military force in a foreign sovereign nation that tries to push 'democracy' out the barrel of an M4 or predator drone, onto a population that despises our very presence on BOTH sides of the fence.

I dont agree with it, FUNDAMENTALLY, and I retain that my opinion is just as valid as yours, no matter how much pre-planned strategic rhetoric you want to pour out here.

flyingirish04 · Post by **flyingirish04** » 02 Mar 2012, 22:41

Yip yip.

:facepalm:

I see your 'internet persona' is full tilt right now. Ok, I will bite...

The constitution? This coming from the guy that quoted Heinlein's satire "Starship Troopers" as an ideal society. Right...

Guess what? I happen to know the weight of a casket as I walked it to a C17. Not thousands, no. 3 of them in fact. And it is about me. Me and all the others that actually served in that sandbox, in the mission you seem to know so much about. The generals that abandoned conventional wisdom and embraced a warfare that was working on a small scale and then made it work on a larger scale. It is about them too. More importantly it is about the heros that didn't come back. Heros that believed and gave their all for the mission. A good mission, in a bad place.

What it isn't about, is you. My guess, it never will be. En Shallah. :cya:

Thedirtyheat · Post by **Thedirtyheat** » 03 Mar 2012, 08:52

Oh look at flying Irish busting out some Loga Arabia, haha

Website · Post by **jgreenberg01** » 03 Mar 2012, 09:03

Since my local translator in on vacation, I googled it. Di you mean "Insha'Allah"?

Yeah, yeah, my OCD is coming through...

flyingirish04 · Post by **flyingirish04** » 03 Mar 2012, 10:02

We always spelled it En Shallah in the dez. It is just as accurate. Arabic translates multiple ways. Not with all words, but with some. For instance: Al Doura, or Al Dora. Usama or Osama. Kazamiyah or Khadamiyah. En Shallah or Inshaa'Allah or En'Shallah or inshallah.

I should have put it: ن شاء الله‎! Then it would be 100% right. :thumb:

Thedirtyheat · Post by **Thedirtyheat** » 03 Mar 2012, 11:03

Haha yea but less people would have understood it.

FSNTAC · Post by **FSNTAC** » 23 Nov 2012, 19:24

ryr8828 wrote:Please lose this clown.

Anyone who types things in the interwebs "letterbox" that makes you uncomfortbale should be blotted out. I agree.

Ether anyone?

FSNTAC · Post by **FSNTAC** » 23 Nov 2012, 19:33

Thedirtyheat wrote:You will always be able to find negative reasons and twist for everything maybe some of them are true, and everyone is entitled to think what they think, just a little curious with where you are hoping to take this or for this to go? Seems to me like you are just trying to start an argument over nothing pointlessly. If there were a reason for this post I could understand more and possibly give some good insight but seems as though there isn't but maybe I'm missing it?

The reason for this post is to make people think beyond what they hear on the TV. Or read on the internet.
Yes my proposal does lean to the left, but I am far from a Lefty. It is the political mass media mindmachine that I am concerned about. It is killing in the name of Patriotism.

Wars in the name of protecting the US Dollar. Wars in the name of paying off our debts...China anyone?http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Sou ... the-US-bid

Humans believing in their government instead of their creator. Humans believing in their government or their military instead of the peace that the creator wants.

The guise of regime change so the countrys' people can live freely.

FiveseveNForum.com

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