Bringing Privately Owned Weapons to War

[SGT J]

I was going to work it out with supply to take my .57 pistol w/ me next trip to Iraq or Afgan.; that is, if I can ensure it will be reliable for me (had some problems that still need a resolution). Provided that it is reliable, I think that the .57 would be a hell of a lot better for us then standard M9's.

[Wollychop]

contractor?

[SGT J]

contractor?

Nope. But with my unit, we get more leeway with what kind of gear we can get/bring/use then the average unit. As long as I can get the weapon logged in with my supply so I can bring it back without hassle, I can bring it with out risk of losing it. My supply SGT knows more about that then I do, though.

[Wollychop]

Good luck with that. There are some prisoners in Arifjan for doing the same thing.

[Mister Freeze]

Indeed. You've got the right idea, and a good chain of command would support you, but it's not that easy. Case in point; Talked to my LTC about my AR-10 to Kuwait. No problem with ammo, parts support, or justification. BUT other commands we would work with would question it and MP's inspecting on the return trip might confiscate it and the Unit wouldn't assume the cost. There are ways, and I know them, and if your unit is friendly to it, great. I don't think you'd find a ready supply of ammo, though.

[User42]

I will be with a unit doing mostly drug ops in South America pretty soon, I want to find out if I can get on the VBSS team and possibly bring my own sidearm. It would be a good excuse to buy one of those SERPA leg holsters. If I get that I will try for the FS2000 too, but I don't think that would fly. It would take some persuasive explanations, and will probably get rejected when they actually see it. I will give it a try though, nothing to really lose for them saying no. I will keep you posted if it happens.

[Wollychop]

I'll say that you should absolutely ensure you are in compliance with regulatory measures at all echelons.

It might be that "your unit" has no problem letting you sign your POW into the arms room and transport it in a sensitive items container, etc.

But the instant, for example, that you set foot on soil in theater and your unit falls under CFLCC or other higher command, you also fall under their policies and regulations. Sadly, ignorance is not a defense. Like freeze said, you might lose your weapon. You might also lose a few months of your time.

That being said, I'm a believer in being able to bring and use your own equipment. However, I can understand the accountability piece as far as the chain of command is ensured. The first question they will ask is how the item is accounted for (as a "privately owned" sensitive item not on your MTOE or other property laydown). The next thing they will ask is how that item being possessed by one person possibly enhances mission effectiveness of the unit as a whole. Finally they will want to know whose ass to fry if something happens with that weapon.

I just want to make sure that you go on more than the word of your "supply sergeant".

User42, if that is what I'm thinking, believe me it is a hell of a lot of fun!!

(Topic Split)

[MrSlippyFist]

I saw this same issue come up on another board. Some marine said he was looking for an M1A socom for his brother to take to Iraq. I said WTF, they'll give him an M14. And when 2 dozen other prior service people asked him how the F he gets to take a personal weapon, the OP clammed up. Weird. Did they ask you to get 100 feet of flight line before you were allowed to take a personally owned weapon?

[Wollychop]

Did they ask you to get 100 feet of flight line before you were allowed to take a personally owned weapon?

The spool of flight line is usually located next to the chemlight batteries and grid squares.

[SGT J]

Did they ask you to get 100 feet of flight line before you were allowed to take a personally owned weapon?

The spool of flight line is usually located next to the chemlight batteries and grid squares.

I was told that if I just filled out form BA 1100 NS, that I could take whatever I want. :thumb:

I appreciate the advice and discussion, but this isn't my first trip, my unit isn't an ordinary unit, and incidentally my "supply SGT" isn't an ordinary supply SGT (though it would be cleared through more then just him). So when I say that we have leeway with the gear we can take, then that means that I can take gear that most regular army or marine units cannot take. So again, appreciate the advice but I kind of know what I am doing here.

That said, it is a moot point, as I don't think I am going to bring my personal weapon simply because of the ammo not being a standard round, and I am also not sure I want to risk damaging my own weapon. But, considerations are still on the table.

That all aside, this is not a bad thing to discuss. My situation is an exception. In most cases, if Joe is considering taking his own weapon, he should NOT do so. If he gets permission from the proper channels, he shouldn't end up with an article 15 or worse. However, even with that permission and an unlikely chance of getting in trouble, there is never a guarantee that the weapon will make it back home for many different reasons. It just isn't worth the hassle and loosing your shit.

One last note: for those who don't know, I did not start a new thread on this topic; it was split off from another thread on Gov. Agencies currently using .57. My response was to indicate that certain military units would consider it if allowed.

And that is all I need to say on the topic; will not be responding further... thanks! :patriot:

[MrSlippyFist]

I had a TS clearance and was considered special ops (GSR). Deployed with SF and scouts, and they didn't even get to take personal weapons. What's your MOS?

I wouldn't take an FsN without a good resupply. If I had the choice, I'd take a highly reliable 9mm. The ammo I got for my Beretta was crap.

[Wollychop]

For clarification, I split the topic because I considered it to have drifted enough to warrant a new thread, and to preserve the intent of the original.

[SGT J]

I had a TS clearance and was considered special ops (GSR). Deployed with SF and scouts, and they didn't even get to take personal weapons. What's your MOS?

I wouldn't take an FsN without a good resupply. If I had the choice, I'd take a highly reliable 9mm. The ammo I got for my Beretta was crap.

Sorry man; do to a current situation I do not feel comfortable giving any personal info out re: military background on a forum at this time.

That said; there are ways to take personal weapons over, and it is easier if you are under a different command (SOCOM, BFsB, etc.); my unit did it last time. However, people much higher in the chain of command then I have to condone it and sign the proper memorandoms to make it happen. Most unit COs, to include Specialized units, do not want to go through the trouble or incure the potential risk, so what you said about not being able to bring personal weapons doesn't surprise me (and as I understand that what I say may be hard to believe). So we will just have to take what I say at face value and leave it at that.

As to 9mm ammo; yea, it sucks; I agree with you there. It is no better then Winchester target ammo due to NATO restrictions on hollow point rounds. What makes a 9mm effective is being able to get the proper round that will expand and do more damage without overpenatration. I wish I could bring my own rounds, but I would have a harder time getting a NATO banned round over then a .57, and that WOULD get me in some trouble! So, I think I will stick with what they give me with that.

[Wollychop]

Expanding munitions are restricted by Declaration III of the Hague Conventions, not specifically NATO.

[MrSlippyFist]

Yeah, OK. Why don't you PM me your MOS, Unit, and commander's name, Artos. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt - but as you stated this is the internet. If you are truly the high-speed hard charger who has a CO that will let you take your own toys, then you should ask for an invite to out LEO/Mil side.

[69ranchero351c]

Yeah, OK. Why don't you PM me your MOS, Unit, and commander's name, Artos. I want to give you the benefit of the doubt - but as you stated this is the internet. If you are truly the high-speed hard charger who has a CO that will let you take your own toys, then you should ask for an invite to out LEO/Mil side.

o no u didn't! thats what i was thinking while reading this thread.

[MrSlippyFist]

It's not him, He is just concerned about OPSEC and rightly so.

[EARS]

If the gentleman is serious, where does he think he would be sufficant amounts of ammo? Why would the military let anyone bring Privately Owned Weapons to a forward area of operation? Maybe things have changed, but I know when I was in, there would be no way anyone Command would authorise it or condone it.

[Mister Freeze]

Did they ask you to get 100 feet of flight line before you were allowed to take a personally owned weapon?

The spool of flight line is usually located next to the chemlight batteries and grid squares.

Don't forget the muffler bearings, bottle of rotor wash, and a stack of form ID-10T's

[User42]

Yea I don't really expect it to happen, and I'm Navy so I wouldn't need case apon case of ammo and the odds of me ever actually firing it anger are slim. I just found out the VBSS school is now 8 weeks instead of the old two weeks, I need to hurry up and apply for it. Even if we were carrying some special forces and didn't need crew members for VBSS, I would see if I can bring it just to practice with it when we do shooting quals. I will be on a warship, so the whole moving places and changing commands and rules doesn't apply, if the CO approves it then its all good. Maybe I can convert some of the security guys and get a few new members here. I already know one guy in security here that plans on buying one soon.

[RadCat]

Yea I don't really expect it to happen, and I'm Navy so I wouldn't need case apon case of ammo and the odds of me ever actually firing it anger are slim. I just found out the VBSS school is now 8 weeks instead of the old two weeks, I need to hurry up and apply for it. Even if we were carrying some special forces and didn't need crew members for VBSS, I would see if I can bring it just to practice with it when we do shooting quals. I will be on a warship, so the whole moving places and changing commands and rules doesn't apply, if the CO approves it then its all good. Maybe I can convert some of the security guys and get a few new members here. I already know one guy in security here that plans on buying one soon.

Before I say anything, let it be known That I am joking ... Ok??

We all like to dream/wish upon what "if" they would allow any of these "un-issued" personal thingies in the field. On my old days in the "job" many of my buddies wished they could use something better than the 158 gr RN lead bullets in their .38 Special's. No dice !!!! An this was "local". You got involved in an incident with unauthorized ammo and your ass was grass, with the Captain doing the reaming without any vaseline.

"User42", you sound like a nice guy. Hell, you ARE a nice guy. But using "unsupported" equipment on the field can also get your ass in trouble when you don't find supply parts or ammo, or if something goes breaking, etc. You would be better off strapping that "Serpa" holster with FsN and P2000 "IF" you joined the local "mall (cop) ninja" force. They tell me those items are actually very "in" with the Mall Security Units, usually the Special Ops Divisions. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Please, don't be offended. I just could not resist it. But as for bringing privately owned weapons to war ... the only war I could think of that it would be allowed is our own domestic war ... mostly at the range or the City dump (and at some of the three gun matches from USPSA Clubs). ( or at the Mall :lmao: :lmao: ) So, there, I had my fun. I feel so much better now. I am sure you've got thick skin. :thumb:

[User42]

Yea I doubt I will even be allowed on the boarding team, my skills are definitely needed elsewhere. I am going to try though, I think its a pretty good way to introduce myself

[Fudd]

It's not fair to say that personally owned weapons are never allowed.

My CO on board a destroyer allowed me to bring both my Beretta 92F and M-1A aboard during the late '80's when we were doing convoy escort and patrols in the southern Persian Gulf and Straits of Hormuz. We were concerned with the potential of hostile boardings by IRGCN forces while patrolling at slow speeds in defined areas. CO, XO all Department Heads and E-8 / E-9 were issued and carried sidearms. My personal match grade M-1A, hand built by an armorer from Crane was in a rack on the bridge and was used on several occasions for mine clearance. When I wasn't wearing it, the Beretta was in my stateroom safe, not the armory.

Fast forward to Gulf War I. We were doing board & search (in fact we were the first guys to do it because we were in Haifa when Saddam rolled into Kuwait). Another DD, another CO. Same rules - personal weapons aboard, except I had switched from the Beretta tent peg pounder to a HK P7M13. Same M-1A used for board & search cover as a designated marksman with spotter from the SPQ-9 radar paltform. We did the whole package as flagship for interception ops in the Gulf of Aqaba and Red Sea; CH-46 with guys on a rope behind the boarded ship's bridge, Captain's gig with boarding team from astern, SH-2 with M60 door gunner hovering across the forecastle, bridge wing .50 M2HB and M-60, and marksman with spotter up high for precision engagement as we came alongside. It made boardings much more "compliant".

When we went ashore in Israel, we left our stuff on the ship and my liaison (Israeli LCDR) asked me what I was carrying. When I told him "nothing", we drove over to his house and he gave me a M1911 and inside the pants holster before we headed to Tel Aviv for some night time recreation.

Don't know what the deal is now, but it sounds like everybody has gotten completely anal about this $hit.