Dont lose a gun fight in the first 3 seconds…

General discussion.
Post Reply
toyslr
Senior Member
Posts: 2020
Joined: 26 Mar 2009, 09:56
Location: Cypress, Texas
Contact:

Dont lose a gun fight in the first 3 seconds…

Post by toyslr » 05 Nov 2013, 15:50

Anyone who carries a firearm should read this and watch the video!

I've always been a firm believer in training and shooting the Mozambique drill
(two rounds to center mass / one to the head) and or a modified versions but this
is a completely new thought process and it makes sense.


http://gunmartblog.com/2013/09/30/pro-t ... 3-seconds/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
blueorison
Competition/Training Mod
Posts: 10665
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 14:28
custom title: UT/EA Pistol Captain
Contact:

Re: Dont lose a gun fight in the first 3 seconds…

Post by blueorison » 05 Nov 2013, 16:16

toyslr wrote:Anyone who carries a firearm should read this and watch the video!

I've always been a firm believer in training and shooting the Mozambique drill
(two rounds to center mass / one to the head) and or a modified versions but this
is a completely new thought process and it makes sense.


http://gunmartblog.com/2013/09/30/pro-t ... 3-seconds/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nice ref!

In the end, claiming what's the right method vs best vs. etc... there are too many variables.

I would wait and assess, and not alert the gunman that I was a threat.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

toyslr
Senior Member
Posts: 2020
Joined: 26 Mar 2009, 09:56
Location: Cypress, Texas
Contact:

Re: Dont lose a gun fight in the first 3 seconds…

Post by toyslr » 05 Nov 2013, 16:59

In a fight, nothing is right or wrong! It only matter who wins or survives....
With ALL the "Tactical Trainers" out their debating their system as the greatest
and bestest, everyone seems to forget that the best weapon in a fight is your BRAIN!

My take on it would be the same, wait, le the situation unfold and choose your moment!

I.E. wait for him to turn or move into a position of weakness, allowing you to put him down without it
turning into a full on gunfight

Cwc
Junior Member
Posts: 114
Joined: 04 Jul 2012, 07:19
Location: NW Georgia

Re: Dont lose a gun fight in the first 3 seconds…

Post by Cwc » 09 Nov 2013, 17:58

This is the same method I train at my local range. Hip to head. We call it the zipper.

JoJo
Member
Posts: 397
Joined: 07 Nov 2011, 09:07

Re: Dont lose a gun fight in the first 3 seconds…

Post by JoJo » 11 Nov 2013, 09:00

He makes a lot of sense and a good argument for 20 rounds in the magazine. I have watched it several times now and forwarded a link to some friends. Of course "he who knows everything tactical" takes exception.

Now I have an excuse to use the full body zombie targets my son gave me! Also, I have got to work out a carry solution for my bowling ball body and a 5.7.

ryr8828
Junior Member
Posts: 84
Joined: 03 May 2010, 14:47

Re: Dont lose a gun fight in the first 3 seconds…

Post by ryr8828 » 15 Nov 2013, 04:13

I was taught that the average gunfight takes place in 3 seconds, 3 shots, at 3 yds.

Don't know if this is true or not.

toyslr
Senior Member
Posts: 2020
Joined: 26 Mar 2009, 09:56
Location: Cypress, Texas
Contact:

Re: Dont lose a gun fight in the first 3 seconds…

Post by toyslr » 15 Nov 2013, 15:31

From what I've read in the past the average is 3-7 ft. with anywhere from 3-7 rounds being expended. Most people afterwards report firing less than they actually do.
But you still have to keep in mind the old school 21 ft. rule, that says anyone within 21 ft. can close on you before you can draw, present and fire with any accuracy.

User avatar
Rapier1772
Global Moderator
Posts: 12712
Joined: 20 Aug 2008, 09:00
Location: Kennewick, WA

Re: Dont lose a gun fight in the first 3 seconds…

Post by Rapier1772 » 15 Nov 2013, 16:13

ryr8828 wrote:I was taught that the average gunfight takes place in 3 seconds, 3 shots, at 3 yds.
Don't know if this is true or not.
Curious where that person got the info. I don't think there is such a thing as an "average gunfight" for anyone outside of a war zone.
A civilian won't react the same as LEO or military, unless they've had similar training, which most haven't.
Is the average something which was evaluated with civvies? With cops? With military? What was the situation and the environment (training or real, other people/kids/known location)? There are way too many variables to make any kind of a statement like that IMHO.

That said, my instructors (they were cops instructing civilians for CCW) did say that most shootings occur at close range, less than 10yd, but I don't recall them saying a time frame. There are plenty of vids online of shootouts which put all kinds of holes in the round count theory :laugh:
The shooting is probably over quickly simply due to lack of ammo in most cases :laugh:
Like toyslr said, "Most people afterwards report firing less than they actually do." Shooters will likely be through a full mag before they know it, doesn't matter if GG or BG. (Carry back up mags!!)
How to post pics & videos: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6363
Contrary to popular belief, you CAN fix stupid - it's just illegal.

NYPD3765
Junior Member
Posts: 30
Joined: 26 Nov 2009, 08:10

Re: Dont lose a gun fight in the first 3 seconds…

Post by NYPD3765 » 04 Dec 2013, 12:56

Back in the late 80's early 90's the most gunfights for law enforcement in the U.S. occurred on a thursday night 4x12 tour in the 34 pct. NYC manhattan north, and within 3 yards,lasted about 3-5 seconds. It happened so fast. most cops didn't even realize they shot all six shots from revolver, and reloaded and shot six more. When asked they mostly said they only fired 3-4 times. Shootouts happen so fast you tend to fall back on your training. 25 years ago it was fire six and look, later training was fire 2 than look, now with the new semi-autos it is two to the chest one to the head, seek cover or concealment than look,It is called fail safe. I guess thing do evolve. Now as a retired police officer, I would probably look for cover protect my self and family, and fire only when threatened. I don't think there is any right or wrong in a gunfight as long as you win.

CenCalSplicer
Senior Member
Posts: 1682
Joined: 29 Aug 2009, 18:37
Location: Clovis, CA

Re: Dont lose a gun fight in the first 3 seconds…

Post by CenCalSplicer » 05 Dec 2013, 15:13

Excellent video which presents a lot of food for thought.

Litehiker
Junior Member
Posts: 84
Joined: 16 Aug 2013, 18:25

Re: Dont lose a gun fight in the first 3 seconds…

Post by Litehiker » 20 Dec 2013, 19:11

If there are multiple felons with guns 3 shots to one of them will get YOU killed by the other felon.

Double tap the most threatening, double tap the next one and return your pistol to cover the first while seeking cover (or at least concealment). This is how I was taught by professionals at Front Sight.

I have a Ruger LP9 with laser sight. Plus P ammo should help me but you truly have to hold on tight to that little 9 mm to keep it under control.

Hebs
Junior Member
Posts: 90
Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 10:27
Location: South Carolina

Re: Dont lose a gun fight in the first 3 seconds…

Post by Hebs » 24 Dec 2013, 06:45

I call this the Counter-Strike tactic! hehe... Funny but true... It's relevent in both FPS games and IRL. The whole point of firing center mass initially for me is merely to slow them down/disorient long enough to get a head/neck shot.

Great video.

User avatar
jgreenberg01
Platinum Member
Posts: 3737
Joined: 17 Jul 2009, 14:32
custom title: FNP-45 Cylon
Location: Palm Coast, FL
Contact:

Re: Dont lose a gun fight in the first 3 seconds…

Post by jgreenberg01 » 20 Feb 2014, 04:59

Here, this may help diagnose and resolve the issues that people have with trigger control.

Especially all those "Why am I shooting low-left with my new FsN?" questions.

Image
0100001101101111011011010110010100100000011000010110111001100100001000000111010001100001011010110110010100100000011010010111010000101110

User avatar
Rapier1772
Global Moderator
Posts: 12712
Joined: 20 Aug 2008, 09:00
Location: Kennewick, WA

Re: Dont lose a gun fight in the first 3 seconds…

Post by Rapier1772 » 20 Feb 2014, 07:49

:lmao: :lmao: :clap:
How to post pics & videos: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6363
Contrary to popular belief, you CAN fix stupid - it's just illegal.

User avatar
panzermk2
Forum Supporter
Posts: 11850
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 15:51
Location: Around here it's more like what can we shoot through next.
Contact:

Re: Dont lose a gun fight in the first 3 seconds…

Post by panzermk2 » 20 Feb 2014, 10:37

Rapier1772 wrote::lmao: :lmao: :clap:
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition

"Engineers, the oompa-loompas of science!"

Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz
Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 24 guests