wap powder
Moderator: Grantness
wap powder
hello everyone
got my fiveseven last fall and love it.I started reloading for the pistol and have had a lot of luck with 30- 45 gr bullets and true blue powder.I've read this forum from front to back and have found the reloading data price less . theres a lot of smart people reloading the 5.7x28 on this forum and I'm greatful they share there loads with everybody.
Now my question I've got 5lbs of wap [win action pistol] powder that seems to be in the right burn rate for the 5.7x28. so where would a good starting point be with a 30grn berg bullet and wap powder ? I was thinking 4.5gr would be a good starting point?
so what do you all think? I would be greatful to any and all help with this load or even a don't do it it's the wrong powder.
thanks agian for sharing your load data
evileye
martin smith
got my fiveseven last fall and love it.I started reloading for the pistol and have had a lot of luck with 30- 45 gr bullets and true blue powder.I've read this forum from front to back and have found the reloading data price less . theres a lot of smart people reloading the 5.7x28 on this forum and I'm greatful they share there loads with everybody.
Now my question I've got 5lbs of wap [win action pistol] powder that seems to be in the right burn rate for the 5.7x28. so where would a good starting point be with a 30grn berg bullet and wap powder ? I was thinking 4.5gr would be a good starting point?
so what do you all think? I would be greatful to any and all help with this load or even a don't do it it's the wrong powder.
thanks agian for sharing your load data
evileye
martin smith
- panzermk2
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Re: wap powder
Be careful with the 30gr Berger.
It has allot of bearing surface and pressures climb very fast with what would seem like light loads. This is a safety thing. We experimented with them allot and they never really worked for us. They will work but only at moderate velocities.
I also have 800 of them left over from our experimenting that I am going to load into .223 for plinking ammo or sell I don't know which.
It has allot of bearing surface and pressures climb very fast with what would seem like light loads. This is a safety thing. We experimented with them allot and they never really worked for us. They will work but only at moderate velocities.
I also have 800 of them left over from our experimenting that I am going to load into .223 for plinking ammo or sell I don't know which.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition
Pr. Elite Ammunition
"Engineers, the oompa-loompas of science!"
Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz
Re: wap powder
panzermk2
thank you for the heads up on the berger bullets. would there be a better bullet to try with this powder ? safety is always a good thing when reloading thats why I came here to ask questions about reloading the 5.7x28. you guys are the best
evileye
martin smith
thank you for the heads up on the berger bullets. would there be a better bullet to try with this powder ? safety is always a good thing when reloading thats why I came here to ask questions about reloading the 5.7x28. you guys are the best
evileye
martin smith
Re: wap powder
This thread title is racist...
:lmao:
:lmao:
"...And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: wap powder
I would start with the V-max. You can get our pulled blue tips cheap for experimenting. We have not done anything with WAP because all of our powder data and experience with it for other loads gave us the impression it would not be good for pushing to the speeds we wanted. This does not mean it won't work great for middle of the road loads. Make sure to share your results.evileye wrote:panzermk2
thank you for the heads up on the berger bullets. would there be a better bullet to try with this powder ? safety is always a good thing when reloading thats why I came here to ask questions about reloading the 5.7x28. you guys are the best
evileye
martin smith
Sometimes a fresh look can find a gem that has been passed over.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition
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"Engineers, the oompa-loompas of science!"
Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz
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Re: wap powder
aw man, panzer, your icon is so wapped.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
Re: wap powder
Plugged some numbers into QL, and with a Hornady 40g V-max - it looks like this powder has potential.
Maybe I'll see if I can snag some and try it out.
Maybe I'll see if I can snag some and try it out.
Re: wap powder
sharky47
did QL give a safe starting load for WAP powder ? and what kind of pressures are we looking at with this powder ?
evileye
martin smith
did QL give a safe starting load for WAP powder ? and what kind of pressures are we looking at with this powder ?
evileye
martin smith
Re: wap powder
Win Action Pistol falls on the burn rate chart very close to HS-6 and Ramshot Silhouette. I would definitely heed the warnings about pushing it with those bullets and that powder. I've had a lot more lost and pierced primers using HS-6 than True Blue.
"How the Hell did I get here?"
Re: wap powder
5.0 grains gives you 61.6% case fill, 33884 psi, and 2131 fps
6.0 grains gives you 73.9% case full, 49195 psi and 2453 fps
This is based on a Hornady 40g v-max and a 16" barrel.
EDIT - pressure curve is nice and gentle. Also, QL (at least for this cartridge) overestimates velocity, you can expect 100-200 less than what it predicts.
6.0 grains gives you 73.9% case full, 49195 psi and 2453 fps
This is based on a Hornady 40g v-max and a 16" barrel.
EDIT - pressure curve is nice and gentle. Also, QL (at least for this cartridge) overestimates velocity, you can expect 100-200 less than what it predicts.
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Re: wap powder
A nice and gentle pressure curve can get your hand blown off.sharky47 wrote:
EDIT - pressure curve is nice and gentle.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition
Pr. Elite Ammunition
"Engineers, the oompa-loompas of science!"
Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz
Re: wap powder
Please elaborate.
Ramshot True Blue has an almost identical curve.......
Ramshot True Blue has an almost identical curve.......
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Re: wap powder
Not it does not, not even close when speaking in terms of ballistics.
Just be very careful.
Just be very careful.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition
Pr. Elite Ammunition
"Engineers, the oompa-loompas of science!"
Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz
Re: wap powder
*Disclaimer* - I am using Quickload, which is a mathematical simulation - NOT real world, I am very aware of this......
Ok, now that that's out of the way - according to QL, the curves are damned near the same - if they were very different, even a computer simulation would show some sort of discrepancy.
Now I know with blowback/delayed blowback weapons - there is much more to consider than just max pressures - different burn rates can have all kinds of strange behaviors with an unlocked breech - especially when we're talking about a bottle-necked high-velocity blowback round.
I do not what to sound like some putz on the internet trying to call you out - because I know you have spent considerable time developing this cartridge - but I do honestly want to know your reasoning behind the "gentle pressure curve" to "exploding gun" connection. I am asking this from an honest curiosity standpoint.
Ok, now that that's out of the way - according to QL, the curves are damned near the same - if they were very different, even a computer simulation would show some sort of discrepancy.
Now I know with blowback/delayed blowback weapons - there is much more to consider than just max pressures - different burn rates can have all kinds of strange behaviors with an unlocked breech - especially when we're talking about a bottle-necked high-velocity blowback round.
I do not what to sound like some putz on the internet trying to call you out - because I know you have spent considerable time developing this cartridge - but I do honestly want to know your reasoning behind the "gentle pressure curve" to "exploding gun" connection. I am asking this from an honest curiosity standpoint.
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Re: wap powder
That is my statement and I am not going into it any further. It is getting into an area of proprietary information. I put forth that statement as a warning.
Take it or leave it.
I will state again for the record in the world of ballistics they are very different. Things are measured in milliseconds for a reason.
This is my last post on this subject.
Take it or leave it.
I will state again for the record in the world of ballistics they are very different. Things are measured in milliseconds for a reason.
This is my last post on this subject.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition
Pr. Elite Ammunition
"Engineers, the oompa-loompas of science!"
Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz
Re: wap powder
Oooooookaaaaaay........
That certainly is you choice to make and I don't begrudge you for making it.
Moving on - is there anyone else here who would like to have an open, rational discussion regarding the effects of different pressure curves on the safety of this cartridge?
I both find it fascinating - and would like to remain safe - so anything I can learn that will help me.......has my attention.
That certainly is you choice to make and I don't begrudge you for making it.
Moving on - is there anyone else here who would like to have an open, rational discussion regarding the effects of different pressure curves on the safety of this cartridge?
I both find it fascinating - and would like to remain safe - so anything I can learn that will help me.......has my attention.
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Re: wap powder
Sharky47sharky47 wrote:Oooooookaaaaaay........That certainly is you choice to make and I don't begrudge you for making it.
Moving on - is there anyone else here who would like to have an open, rational discussion regarding the effects of different pressure curves on the safety of this cartridge?
I both find it fascinating - and would like to remain safe - so anything I can learn that will help me.......has my attention.
Yes, I am another one, that's wants some open,rational discussions etc.
Go into the QL other screens and pull up the Millisecond Bullet travel -vs- pressure screens and then compare the info.
I am using this standard of the following info for the 5.7 case, case capacity of 12.35 grs, and a total bbl length of 122.00 mm.
I also check the different bullets types/lengths and start pressures, will change drasticlly, depending on the bullet used, ie, 35Gr HVMax -vs- Nosler 35gr LF etc. I set the bullet seating depth to .185" Case Neck LENGTH, or a total overall case length of 1.466", or if the bullet is long enough, then I use a max cartridge length of 1.585" which is very close to the maximum magazine overall length.
If you want to find out more, check some of the "FAVORITE LOADS" given for the pistols and do so comparisons, then you have more unanswered questions!!!!! From what I have found on just the internal variations of the internal case capacities waves some flags to me!
I am working on some info also, also check out the foriegn powder selections, I have found several of these powders that are as good or better than US powders, running bullet travel -vs- presure curves -vs-time etc.
More info later,
I can't wait untill the new shop is finished with the Oehlers and pressure testing equipment is set up for testing, all indoors .
Don
ps, I'll probaly be blackballed or banned from here, but so be it.
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Re: wap powder
Kerberos wrote:This thread title is racist...
:lmao:
...that's WOP...
Re: wap powder
Don - we may need to put our heads together, I design and machine all my own rifle bullets.
If you have access to real testing equipment........I can see some seriously cool "open-source"* load development going on here.......
*not that there is anything at all wrong with proprietary info, but I am not in the business nor do I have any interest in being in the business - this is my hobby.
If you have access to real testing equipment........I can see some seriously cool "open-source"* load development going on here.......
*not that there is anything at all wrong with proprietary info, but I am not in the business nor do I have any interest in being in the business - this is my hobby.
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