Shotty's first reloading attempt

[Shotty]

I am brand new to reloading and I am having some issues with my first attempt. My gun is the PSA Rock with about 600 rounds through it. I made 30 loads using once fired SS195LF and SS198LF brass. I am trying to emulate the SS197SR round using the following load specs. from LEE data for a 40 grain bullet.
True Blue 5.4 grains
OAL 1.580
40grain V-max bullet
CCI SRP benchrest primers (BR-4) the only ones I could find at the moment.
All tools used to produce them were LEE
Full length sized and trimmed to 1.134 finished with a very light crimp.
I could not find a 5.7x28 gauge anywhere. However I just ordered one directly from Sheridon today to use from here on out.
I shot only 10 of the 30 loads because out of the ten I had three FTF's. I cycled each of the FTF's a second time and they still did not fire. I came back home and after taking the pictures I have posted, I pulled the FTF's apart. Ten more attempts to get the primer to fire on the first one and still it would not fire. 5 attempts on the second one and it finally fired. I did not attempt to fire the third one. One thing I noticed in the pictures is the bright ring on the shoulders of each round. Possibly the krappy Lee dies are not moving the shoulder down quite enough? Would that even cause a FTF? Any help is appreciated.

[towerofpower93]

Sounds like you didn't bump the shoulder back far enough, leading to the round not fully chambering. The failure to fire is a good thing as you may have been slightly out of battery. The one that you cycled a bunch of times before it fired may have been just a bit too long, and the repeated cycling into the chamber may have bashed the shoulder back just enough.

This is my guess based on my own initial failures with the 5.7 round and not pushing the shoulder back far enough.

Looking forward to what others think as well

[panzermk2]

Agreed, EA has had a go/nogo gauge for twenty years not sure how you could not find it.

The Lee 5.7x28mm dies were changed by them about 10 years ago. Their sizer dies have turned to shit and don't properly resize the brass. Also their crimp die has issues. I tried to do a video review of them a few years ago and I went though 5 of them before I got one to work. You shoulder might be bumped out by the shitty crimp die.

On those loaded rounds I see NO CRIMP.

Odds are the damn crimp die is bumping out your shoulder instead of actually crimping the case.

Elite Ammunition 1st through 3rd Parts Lee 5 7x28mm Crimp Die 3 Round Battle
https://youtu.be/pz14X6uVRV8

Lee Crimp Die Fourth Time Is The Charm, very charming it works after 4 tries
https://youtu.be/J_8BEIb2ZTo

[Shotty]

Sounds like you didn't bump the shoulder back far enough, leading to the round not fully chambering. The failure to fire is a good thing as you may have been slightly out of battery. The one that you cycled a bunch of times before it fired may have been just a bit too long, and the repeated cycling into the chamber may have bashed the shoulder back just enough.

This is my guess based on my own initial failures with the 5.7 round and not pushing the shoulder back far enough.

Looking forward to what others think as well

Very likely I did bash the shoulder into place finally. I was "assisting" the slide since I had already pulled the bullet and powder out of the casing. Having never fired a primed only case before, I was quite surprised at the report when the primer finally went off. I have a new respect for those "little" primers now. Everyone should give that a try to see it for themselves. I could see a tray of those going off at once to be a very bad day!

Agreed, EA has had a go/nogo gauge for twenty years not sure how you could not find it.

The Lee 5.7x28mm dies were changed by them about 10 years ago. Their sizer dies have turned to shit and don't properly resize the brass. Also their crimp die has issues. I tried to do a video review of them a few years ago and I went though 5 of them before I got one to work. You shoulder might be bumped out by the shitty crimp die.

On those loaded rounds I see NO CRIMP.

Odds are the damn crimp die is bumping out your shoulder instead of actually crimping the case.

Elite Ammunition 1st through 3rd Parts Lee 5 7x28mm Crimp Die 3 Round Battle
https://youtu.be/pz14X6uVRV8

Lee Crimp Die Fourth Time Is The Charm, very charming it works after 4 tries
https://youtu.be/J_8BEIb2ZTo

Jay I also dont see how I missed the gauge on EA. I have been to EA many times over the past 3 or so years, just waiting for something to be in stock (ammo) I was excited to have gotten some S4 from EA a couple batches back. I have been acquiring 5.7 reload stuff for a while now prepping for the chance to try it. I would have gladly purchased a gauge from EA had I realized it was in stock.

The gauge I have coming should help me to see the issue a little more clearly. I will pick up a set of better dies if needed along with a better crimp die if needed.
The crimps I made were very light, but I was able to see a faint ring on the bullet after pulling them out.

Thanks for the input guys. I appreciate it.

[Shotty]

The gauge has arrived and I checked my reloads along with a bunch of different factory rounds for comparison. I think my rounds look really good. Of the three FTFs that I pulled apart one did not meet the minimum case length requirement. So that may have something to do with the issue. My 20 remaining reloads were all within the tolerances as measured by the gauge. My plan is to try and shoot the remaining 20 reloads to see if they fire. Could the primers I used (bench rest) have anything to do with it?
One of my reloads in the gauge.

A factory SS198LF round.

[Shotty]

I fired the final 20 reloads today. 5 of them FTF. I am beginning to think the FTFs were caused by the necks being moved to far on those casings when they were resized. All of the rounds that failed to fire barely met the minimum length step on the Sheradon gauge. For comparison, all of the factory rounds easily exceeded the minimum length on the gauge. I have never had a problem with factory ammo FTF except for one Federal round on the first mag I ran through the pistol.

[Shotty]

I finished prepping some more brass that I had previously resized. I then classified them using the Sheradon gauge as long, medium, or short. I loaded up 9 that were classified as long, 16 that were classified as medium. I did not load any that were classified as short. All 9 of the long cases functioned correctly. 15 of the medium cases functioned correctly, and one FTF. I ran the FTF through a second time and it fired.
I feel pretty confident that the issue of the FTFs was due to moving the necks back just a hair to much. I also crimped this series a bit more, just enough that I can see it in the gauge. I also noticed the Lee crimp die somehow lengthens a round by 2 thousandths as it crimps the neck.

[panzermk2]

The Lee crimp is pulling the brass and shifting the shoulder. Get the CH4D crimp

[Shotty]

The Lee crimp is pulling the brass and shifting the shoulder. Get the CH4D crimp

I guess that is the only real solution. I might as well get the sizing die and the bullet seater die as well. The Lee seater die is junk, I have to adjust it 1/2" off of the shell holder or it will buckle the necks. Very poor repeatability too.

[Shotty]

I loaded up another 20, checking them with the Sheradon gauge several times during the whole process. All 20 fired but 2 of them did not want to go into full battery until I pushed on the slide to send it in the last 1/8 of an inch. I noticed a lot of brass slivers as I thoroughly cleaned the Rock. It seems the extractor is pretty rough on the brass at some point. I am not sure if it happens during chambering or during ejection or even both.

[panzermk2]

You might want to get my gauge. I would bet money the rounds that passed the sheradon one wold NOT pass mine.
When ever you machine something and even the round itself has a tolerance. A plus or minus. I designed my gauge to be at the min range. that way you would know 100% that it would feed all the way into the chamber. Since the last thing you want is even, just small amount out of battery and have the gun still shoot.

[Shotty]

Loaded up another 150 and went to the range yesterday. Only one round FTF, sending it through a second time it worked. I think I have got this pretty much figured out to my satisfaction. The lee sizing die was actually moving the shoulder just a bit too much. I have also tweaked the setup of the Lee sizing die in a way that allows it to offset the stretch that the Lee crimp die causes. Ill be saving up for a set of the CH4D dies sometime after the first of the year. The Sheradon gauge works good IMO. It has three steps on the head end, the first step shows the maximum headspace allowable. The next step shows the minimum headspace allowable. The last step shows the minimum length allowable for an empty cartridge. The other end of the gauge shows you the max OAL for a finished round.

Yesterday was also the first day I was able to try out my new suppressor on my rock 5.7 I was surprised that it quieted the super sonic rounds as much as it did. I cannot seem to find anywhere that has any sub 5.7x28 rounds for sale ATM. My searches on this forum so far have not been able to find any reload data for a sub for the pistol. Can anyone direct me to the info? Thanks.

[panzermk2]

There should be SS data deep in the reloading section. You might have to manually search.

[Shotty]

I have looked and looked for SS info in this forum and have not found it yet. I give up for now.

Have also looked for info on loads for the FN 27 grain bullets, but I have had no luck. If anyone has seen load info for either, I would appreciate a link.