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Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 13 Mar 2016, 16:45
by Kiran04
So adding the Lee crimp to a few of my loads has resulted in them no longer extracting properly, if at all. It seems as though the gun short strokes. It does not cycle back far enough to eject the spent casing and chamber the next round. It still fires good and straight. The bullet is accurate and without an action cycle the recoil is almost negligible, I would, however, like my gun to function correctly. It did not function well in my AR57 either. The casing got stuck behind the bolt catch almost like it stayed glued to the extractor and never came out. I had to take it home to get it out.

This load has worked without the crimp. I guess I can just take the crimp out. Any ideas what the cause is or what it is about the crimp that causes the actions to cycle incorrectly?

1.580" OAL, 6.4 grains VV 3N38, Hornady 40 grain Vmax, CCI Small rifle primer

Re: Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 15 Mar 2016, 12:57
by Kiran04
No one?

Re: Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 15 Mar 2016, 13:41
by fntech1
Dear Kiran04: "This load has worked without the crimp. I guess I can just take the crimp out." Hey! Problem solved. Stop the crimp, and forget about the reasons why.

Re: Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 15 Mar 2016, 15:37
by panzermk2
Without out pictures there is nothing to go on.

At an absolute minimum we need hi res hi mag pics.

Re: Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 16 Mar 2016, 01:50
by grimmond
How about you check your pm inbox.

Re: Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 18 Mar 2016, 19:44
by Kiran04
Thanks grimmond. So I reloaded another batch without the crimp and low and behold, no issues. The AR57 cycled and entire 50 round magazine. All of the brass looked like it should after coming out of that gun. Still curious as to the culprit of the short stroke is. Even though I can obviously reload just fine without crimping, it still bugs me just because I bought the damn thing and I'd like to use it, and I also like to know why things do what they do.

Re: Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 24 Mar 2016, 18:49
by DoubleJ
What bullet? Possible you're bulging something, slowing down cycling and causing failures. Not sure. I don't crimp any 5.7 rounds except my cast ones, since I have to expand the mouth to seat them, and I only crimp the expanded portion out, no more. If there's no crimp groove or cannelure, there doesn't need to be any crimping, unless it's a 357Sig.

Re: Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 24 Mar 2016, 20:04
by Kiran04
DoubleJ wrote:What bullet? Possible you're bulging something, slowing down cycling and causing failures. Not sure. I don't crimp any 5.7 rounds except my cast ones, since I have to expand the mouth to seat them, and I only crimp the expanded portion out, no more. If there's no crimp groove or cannelure, there doesn't need to be any crimping, unless it's a 357Sig.
40 grain vmax. Factory rounds are glued. I figured they were for a reason so I tried the next best thing, the crimp. Unfortunately, that did no aid my cause.

Re: Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 04:09
by DoubleJ
Factory rounds are glued specifically to create inconsistent velocities and kill the Savage bolt rifle before it ever hit gun stores. FN might make great guns, but they should probably talk to Hornady or somebody about their ammo.

Re: Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 15:51
by panzermk2
DoubleJ wrote:Factory rounds are glued specifically to create inconsistent velocities and kill the Savage bolt rifle before it ever hit gun stores. FN might make great guns, but they should probably talk to Hornady or somebody about their ammo.
LOL wow where did you come up with this jem of bullshit?

FNH glued the bullets in place all the way back to 1988 when they developed the round and no they aren't glued in to be inconsistent.

It had nothing to do with the Savage rifle's prototyping a 5.7 rifle just a few years ago.

In fact I know the guy who was incharge of that program and the owner of the one and only Savage rifle in 5.7.

The gluing has no affect what's so ever as to what firearm it can be fired out of.

I also know for a fact WHY they are glued in and in fact the glue helps the ammo perform better.

Re: Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 25 Mar 2016, 20:27
by DoubleJ
Well, it was a joke, but as long as we're on the subject...

Aren't you the one making brass and ammo that's better in every way than FN's stuff due to it's inconsistent performance, brass thickness, powders used, powder charges, primers and glue application?

Norma doesn't glue bullets in. Lapua doesn't glue bullets in. Hornady doesn't glue bullets in. Black Hills doesn't glue bullets in. Bench rest guys don't glue bullets in. Do you glue your bullets in?

I also believe 1000% that Savage killed the 5.7 bolt rifle because the one supplier of factory ammo, FN, supplies ammo that's far too inconsistent in performance to deliver the groups that all Savage rifles are famous for. There's literally no other reason that it could have been killed. Other than being small, it's just a bottleneck rifle round, very easy to build a rifle around. If there is another reason, get that guy on here to give us the scoop, first hand.

Re: Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 27 Mar 2016, 08:05
by Grocerius Maximus
If its a 'semi-delayed' blowback, crimping will effect the 'semi' part, in a different way than glue/bond/tight neck tension.

Re: Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 28 Mar 2016, 06:33
by Kiran04
Is it worth gluing the rounds?

Re: Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 28 Mar 2016, 07:56
by kmiles
No need to glue the bullets in. Velocities from hand loaded ammo can easily exceed that of factory ammo with a lot more consistency.

Re: Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 28 Mar 2016, 10:18
by panzermk2
DoubleJ wrote:Well, it was a joke, but as long as we're on the subject...

Aren't you the one making brass and ammo that's better in every way than FN's stuff due to it's inconsistent performance, brass thickness, powders used, powder charges, primers and glue application?

Yes yes I am

DoubleJ wrote: Norma doesn't glue bullets in. Lapua doesn't glue bullets in. Hornady doesn't glue bullets in. Black Hills doesn't glue bullets in. Bench rest guys don't glue bullets in. Do you glue your bullets in?
There is a very specific reason the bullets a re glued in, it has been done before and it has to do with the how the round operates.

Yes I crimp but I uses a very special crimp designed by me just for this round.

DoubleJ wrote: I also believe 1000% that Savage killed the 5.7 bolt rifle because the one supplier of factory ammo, FN, supplies ammo that's far too inconsistent in performance to deliver the groups that all Savage rifles are famous for. There's literally no other reason that it could have been killed. Other than being small, it's just a bottleneck rifle round, very easy to build a rifle around. If there is another reason, get that guy on here to give us the scoop, first hand.

That was part of the problem but not all of, availability came into play also and other things I can't comment on.

Re: Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 02 Apr 2016, 13:10
by NLVMike
I like that statement "the groups that all Savage rifles are famous for".

I will have to study a little more. I have a couple of Savage rifles, and I like them, but I didn't realize the groups were famous. My non-Savage rifles are going to be dissappointed. :)

Re: Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 02 Apr 2016, 14:29
by DoubleJ
For what a Savage rifle costs, they should shoot AK groups. I know everyone now has a cheap bolt gun that'll do sub minute groups, but Savage always has, at the expense of that barrel nut that makes everyone throw up of course.

Re: Failure to extract with lee factory crimp

Posted: 02 Apr 2016, 22:39
by Grocerius Maximus
DoubleJ wrote:For what a Savage rifle costs, they should shoot AK groups. I know everyone now has a cheap bolt gun that'll do sub minute groups, but Savage always has, at the expense of that barrel nut that makes everyone throw up of course.
I find it hilarious that everybody and their 2nd cousin are copying all the Savage unique features, did the patents run out?. Pinned floating bolt heads, barrel nuts, bladed triggers. Mossberg 4x4/MVP has all three. Rem 783 same deal but the trigger isn't a blade.

Who has ever copied 'three rings of steel!'?