New Member Checking In

Reloading info for the 5.7x28mm

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rbking
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New Member Checking In

Post by rbking » 24 Jul 2015, 18:23

Long time reloader. Just bought a 5.7, 4 months ago.

Working up heavy bullet loads, with Armscore 62 grainers and AA 9. The AA 9 is old stuff I had leftover from years ago. Use to load 10 mm with it. Had 3/4 of a pound, in my powder stash. Glad I kept it, can't find anything else locally.

Very difficult time, obtaining slow burning powders where I live. Was only able to buy a can of Longshot. Which I intend to use after the AA 9, runs out.

I shoot in a National Forest at a elevation of 6,400'. Recently the tempts have been in the mid 70's to low 80's.

Shoot my loads over a ProChrono Digital, @ 12" distance. I shoot 10 shot strings, and get the average of the 10 shots for my data.

First data I would like to share is from Federal and FN factory loads. As I would like some input regarding shooting at 6,400', @ 75 to 82 degrees, at that elevation.

Federal, 5.7 X 28. Average of 10 shots 1,578 FPS

FN, Blue Tip 5.7 X 28. Average of 10 shots 1,682 FPS


Thanks
RICHARD

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Rapier1772
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Re: New Member Checking In

Post by Rapier1772 » 25 Jul 2015, 12:38

Good luck, it can be difficult for loads with heavier bullets (>55gr) to stabilize out of the FsN. The only success I've had with heavier bullets is with certain subsonic loads & even then they are pretty finicky.
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Re: New Member Checking In

Post by rbking » 25 Jul 2015, 16:33

Rapier1772 wrote:Good luck, it can be difficult for loads with heavier bullets (>55gr) to stabilize out of the FsN. The only success I've had with heavier bullets is with certain subsonic loads & even then they are pretty finicky.



So far I have only shot at targets, my 6.3 grain & 6.7 grain, AA 9 loads. With the 62 grain Armscore bullet. Good groups off-hand at 33'. But 4"" below point of aim. Clean holes, no keyholing. Velocity average for the 6.3 grain load, (8 shots), 1427 FPS. The 6.7 grain, AA 9 load. (7 shots), average velocity 1503 FPS.

Problem I have been having with these loads, is fail to feed jambs. Fired case is extracted and ejected. Fresh round from mag gets hung up trying to chamber. Almost as if the loads are underpowered? Not enough pressure, to cycle the slide back far enough.

Tried adding more AA 9, for a hotter load. Up to 1600 FPS, with no success. Still having FTF jambs.

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Re: New Member Checking In

Post by NLVMike » 26 Jul 2015, 21:34

king, welcome aboard. Keep posting your results, as they are very interesting.

I have some very unscientific thoughts about your FTF jams. If the spent case is ejecting, the load has plenty of power to drive the slide all the way back. It sounds more like timing than power. The action is pretty sensitive to timing when the slide goes back. The lacquer on the cases has something to do with the delay. It appears the system is designed around bullet weights between 27 and 40 grains. Heavier may require a fancy recipe to get the burn right.

Keep on posting.

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Re: New Member Checking In

Post by K-C » 27 Jul 2015, 08:15

Welcome, good luck on finding pistol powder of any type! We have the same problem here in Canada. Also, we have a great shortage of .22 rimfire ammo...

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Re: New Member Checking In

Post by rbking » 27 Jul 2015, 08:48

NLVMike wrote:king, welcome aboard. Keep posting your results, as they are very interesting.

I have some very unscientific thoughts about your FTF jams. If the spent case is ejecting, the load has plenty of power to drive the slide all the way back. It sounds more like timing than power. The action is pretty sensitive to timing when the slide goes back. The lacquer on the cases has something to do with the delay. It appears the system is designed around bullet weights between 27 and 40 grains. Heavier may require a fancy recipe to get the burn right.

Keep on posting.


Great minds think alike. I'm in the process of removing the lacquer coating. It vexed me for awhile. Finally chucked the bottom half, of a Lee hand case trimmer in a electric drill. Clamped the drill to a workbench. And polished the lacquer off with coarse ScotchBrite pads. :D Slow going, but it gets the lacquer off with no problem.

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Re: New Member Checking In

Post by rbking » 27 Jul 2015, 09:05

K-C wrote:Welcome, good luck on finding pistol powder of any type! We have the same problem here in Canada. Also, we have a great shortage of .22 rimfire ammo...



I hear you! Have been using Winchester A A Super - Handicap shotgun powder, for my 45 ACP loads. For over a year now. It's good stuff. Burning rate is approximately 1/2 grain slower, than my Accurate Arms #2 powder loads. It's really strange that for awhile, this was the only fast burning powder available.

Sorry about whats happening in Canada. Things have been loosening up a bit powder and .22 ammo wise in my area. Bought 2 cans of 231 last week. Some of the local stores also have .22 ammo available, for the first time since the 2012 election.

Makes me laugh. :lmao: The Walmart scalpers, with their garages full of .22 ammo. Aren't going to have any buyers. For their $70 a brick, Remington Thunderbolts.

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Re: New Member Checking In

Post by panzermk2 » 27 Jul 2015, 10:46

rbking wrote:
NLVMike wrote:king, welcome aboard. Keep posting your results, as they are very interesting.

I have some very unscientific thoughts about your FTF jams. If the spent case is ejecting, the load has plenty of power to drive the slide all the way back. It sounds more like timing than power. The action is pretty sensitive to timing when the slide goes back. The lacquer on the cases has something to do with the delay. It appears the system is designed around bullet weights between 27 and 40 grains. Heavier may require a fancy recipe to get the burn right.

Keep on posting.


Great minds think alike. I'm in the process of removing the lacquer coating. It vexed me for awhile. Finally chucked the bottom half, of a Lee hand case trimmer in a electric drill. Clamped the drill to a workbench. And polished the lacquer off with coarse ScotchBrite pads. :D Slow going, but it gets the lacquer off with no problem.

Removing the coating will only create issues.
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NLVMike
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Re: New Member Checking In

Post by NLVMike » 27 Jul 2015, 11:22

King, I agree with Jay. The lacquer is necessary to create the delay. I am a pretty serious amateur at this, so this observation should be taken with a few grains of salt. In the most recent iteration of the Savage 17HMR semi-auto, they have added an interrupter to the bolt in order to delay the blowback. This seems to have solved the semi-auto consistency problems with the 17HMR. I believe that the lacquer has a similar purpose on the FsN. When you add a heavier bullet, the lacquer can't delay the bolt enough, so the feeding is unreliable. Removing the lacquer would make it worse.

I could be way off base here, but I've been told that if I write it on an internet forum, it becomes truth. :)

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Re: New Member Checking In

Post by GONRA » 27 Jul 2015, 13:42

GONRA sez the lacquer coating is an IMPORTANT PART OF THE FN FiveSeven RETARDED BLOWBACK SYSTEM.
Acts asa lube to allow cartridge case to slip out of the chamber under high pressure without blowing the case head off.
Special super axially strong 5.7x28FN cartridge case, spring loaded barrel are the other parts.
All these factors are important in the FiveSeven pistol.
Last edited by GONRA on 29 Jul 2015, 13:24, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Member Checking In

Post by bruteandbear1 » 29 Jul 2015, 08:08

GONariah

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Re: New Member Checking In

Post by Rapier1772 » 29 Jul 2015, 12:34

Problem brute?

King,
Steel media tumbling also gets the lacquer off but I'll echo the others & advise against removing it. One thing they didn't mention here (but it is elsewhere on the forum) is removing the lacquer build up in your chamber.
Remove the barrel assembly from the slide & soak the chamber in carburetor cleaner (do NOT get carb cleaner on the polymer), then clean out the chamber with a Q-tip or similar until it is clean. I would do this before going the stripped brass route.
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Re: New Member Checking In

Post by rbking » 30 Jul 2015, 18:45

Results from today's shoot. Utalizating AA 9 powder and Armscorp 62 grain bullets.

Much better results today. As I noted previously, the cases were scrubbed to remove lacquer with ScotchBrite. Chamber was polished of residual lacquer, using a oversized bronze bore brush,(lubed with WD 40), chucked in a electric drill.

Loads were the same that I chronographed previously. These had all given me numerous fail to feed jambs.

6.3 grains of AA 9. 1.585 +/- .005 OAL, = Average velocity, 1,427 FPS

6.7 grains of AA 9. 1.585 +/- .005 OAL, = Average Velocity, 1,503 FPS

6.9 grains of AA 9. 1.585+/- .005b OAL, = Average Velocity, 1,570 FPS


Had the most problems with the 6.3 grain load. Round #3, was a fail to feed jamb. 5 of the 10 shots, keyholed on the 15 yard target.


6.7 grain load was perfect. No jambs. Bullets didn't keyhole.

6.9 grain load. Last cartridge from the mag. jambed. Didn't feed into chamber. Bullets didn't keyhole in target.

Lack of lacquer coating, affects ejection pattern of fired brass. It goes everywhere. Behind, to the side, in front etc.

Fired Brass appeared to be in excellent condition. Primers and necks same as fired commercial brass.

Need to get more A A 9 powder to continue my experiments. Haven't seen any AA pistols powders for over 2 years now.

I might wind up going to Bruno's, to get some Viha Vuori N105. If I can't get my hands on some more A A 9

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Re: New Member Checking In

Post by NLVMike » 30 Jul 2015, 22:51

King, interesting results. Nothing like real world observation. It trumps my speculation every time. I think that's why the snipers like to use Data Observed from Previous Encounters (DOPE) to dial in their scopes. What part of the world are you in? I might have some powder that would be fun to try with those loads.

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Re: New Member Checking In

Post by rbking » 30 Jul 2015, 23:06

NLVMike wrote:King, interesting results. Nothing like real world observation. It trumps my speculation every time. I think that's why the snipers like to use Data Observed from Previous Encounters (DOPE) to dial in their scopes. What part of the world are you in? I might have some powder that would be fun to try with those loads.



I'm in North Eastern AR. Appreciate the offer but shipping powder, is a major and expensive hassle. The 2 contacts I have made recently swear up and down, that they can get A A 9. I will see how it plays out? Both were actually selling powder. So they aren't your run of the mill gunshow commando, BS artist.

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Re: New Member Checking In

Post by blueorison » 31 Jul 2015, 09:35

rbking wrote:
NLVMike wrote:King, interesting results. Nothing like real world observation. It trumps my speculation every time. I think that's why the snipers like to use Data Observed from Previous Encounters (DOPE) to dial in their scopes. What part of the world are you in? I might have some powder that would be fun to try with those loads.



I'm in North Eastern AR. Appreciate the offer but shipping powder, is a major and expensive hassle. The 2 contacts I have made recently swear up and down, that they can get A A 9. I will see how it plays out? Both were actually selling powder. So they aren't your run of the mill gunshow commando, BS artist.

Welcome to the forum!

"So they aren't your run of the mill gunshow commando, BS artist."

Yeap. I avoid gunstores, public gun ranges, and gunshows, like the plague.
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Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
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Re: New Member Checking In

Post by rbking » 06 Aug 2015, 19:45

More chrono testing this afternoon.

Going to hang it up on A A 9 powder. Don't want to fool around with any compressed powder loads. With the 62 grain Armscorp bullet loaded to 1.585 +/- .005 Overall length. The amount of AA 9 to the base of the bullet, is approximately 6.7 grains. I have shot loads with as much as 7.2 grains of AA 9. The fired brass looked OK, no worse that fired Federal or FN. Just don't want to push my luck, with compressing smokeless. Going to start loading with the can of Longshot, that I picked up.

Shot 2 different loads this afternoon. Same powder charge, of 6.6 grains of A A 9. With and without small rifle magnum primers.

6.6 grains of AA 9, with Winchester Small Rifle primers. 10 shot average, 1476 FPS.


6.6 grains of A A 9, with CCI Magnum Small Rifle primers. 10 shot average, 1487 FPS.


Great disapointment! Even though I polished all the lacquer off the brass. Had fail to feed jams, (2) in each 10 shot string.

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Re: New Member Checking In

Post by grimmond » 08 Aug 2015, 10:09

rbking wrote: I might wind up going to Bruno's, to get some Viha Vuori N105. If I can't get my hands on some more A A 9
If you can get VVn105 I would buy it in a heart beat. It works very very good across the board. Its one of my favorite powders, unfortunately I cannot seem to find it at all.
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