Home Grown SS 190

Reloading info for the 5.7x28mm

Moderator: Grantness

Buffman
Silver Member
Posts: 2919
Joined: 12 Jan 2009, 22:48
Location: SW Michigan
Contact:

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by Buffman » 27 Sep 2013, 08:51

I'll buy the 1000 if someone will commit to at least buying half or more.

Cashflow
Junior Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 19 Aug 2011, 09:24

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by Cashflow » 27 Sep 2013, 09:57

Guys, right next to the 1000 count is a 500 count for 90 bucks. I would like to hear what you find out about the load for 5.56 since I'm building an SBR in that caliber.

Buffman
Silver Member
Posts: 2919
Joined: 12 Jan 2009, 22:48
Location: SW Michigan
Contact:

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by Buffman » 27 Sep 2013, 12:28

durr ;) if someone wants to go in on the 500 then I'd be game. I only want like 100-150.

User avatar
c1demo
Platinum Member
Posts: 92
Joined: 31 Mar 2011, 03:50

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by c1demo » 27 Sep 2013, 19:40

Buffman wrote:durr ;) if someone wants to go in on the 500 then I'd be game. I only want like 100-150.
I bought 1000, I can send you 100 to test.

Buffman
Silver Member
Posts: 2919
Joined: 12 Jan 2009, 22:48
Location: SW Michigan
Contact:

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by Buffman » 27 Sep 2013, 19:53

C1demo,

I think I got it taken care of :) Thanks for the offer.

CoryS78
Junior Member
Posts: 15
Joined: 05 Sep 2013, 18:48

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by CoryS78 » 28 Sep 2013, 09:46

Hey guys, been lurking for several weeks since i got my PS90 but first post, this thread raised my curiosity... has anyone tried loading S109 62gr into a 5.7 with the intention of subsonic fire with a suppressor? I have a box of the 40gr vmax which I recently started reloading, but this is a different use case.

I'm well aware of the challenges with reloading 5.7 and without regular access to a outdoor range I'm hesitant to attempt any load development on a new bullet, especially at the upper range of the bullet weights for this cartridge.

User avatar
grimmond
Gold Member
Posts: 495
Joined: 15 Dec 2012, 14:27
Location: Washington

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by grimmond » 28 Sep 2013, 11:57

CoryS78 wrote:Hey guys, been lurking for several weeks since i got my PS90 but first post, this thread raised my curiosity... has anyone tried loading S109 62gr into a 5.7 with the intention of subsonic fire with a suppressor? I have a box of the 40gr vmax which I recently started reloading, but this is a different use case.

I'm well aware of the challenges with reloading 5.7 and without regular access to a outdoor range I'm hesitant to attempt any load development on a new bullet, especially at the upper range of the bullet weights for this cartridge.
I can tell you it will not stabilize out of the FiveSeven and keyholes. Also it is really too heavy of a round for 5.7x28 loads.
"Let us never forget that good intelligence saves American lives and protects our freedom."
-Ronald Reagan

User avatar
jmz5
Site Admin
Posts: 11105
Joined: 18 Aug 2008, 21:26

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by jmz5 » 28 Sep 2013, 13:01

If someone bought a large lot that is willing to part with a few, I'd be willing to trade a year of gold membership for a hand full for testing.

PM me if interested.
كاف

Buffman
Silver Member
Posts: 2919
Joined: 12 Jan 2009, 22:48
Location: SW Michigan
Contact:

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by Buffman » 28 Sep 2013, 15:53

I'm giving some to the local loader to see what can be made up in 556

He thinks a slower twist is needed but since these are stabilized from a 1:9 already, so we are going to try.

CoryS78
Junior Member
Posts: 15
Joined: 05 Sep 2013, 18:48

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by CoryS78 » 28 Sep 2013, 16:08

grimmond wrote: I can tell you it will not stabilize out of the FiveSeven and keyholes. Also it is really too heavy of a round for 5.7x28 loads.
I was worried about that... guess i'm in for 1000 of the 32gr :)

I'm happy to split a few hundred out, if anyone wants some let me know. I'll hold off putting in an order for a day or two in case i need to get more than 1k of them... also looking at the 50gr frangible, probably going to pick up some of those for a nice home defense round.

Cashflow
Junior Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 19 Aug 2011, 09:24

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by Cashflow » 28 Sep 2013, 21:13

jmz5,

PM sent.

crazymikie
Junior Member
Posts: 9
Joined: 30 Mar 2010, 13:44

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by crazymikie » 29 Sep 2013, 04:44

These are pretty large - almost .1" longer than a 55 FMJ - be careful when using load data for normal 30-ish grain projectiles. Keep in mind there is reduced case capacity when selecting a power charge.

User avatar
grimmond
Gold Member
Posts: 495
Joined: 15 Dec 2012, 14:27
Location: Washington

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by grimmond » 29 Sep 2013, 09:35

For those interested in loading these. The SS190 factory OAL avg is 1.59"/ 40.5mm.. Searched high and low on the net for any load data and only came up with one small post on another forum. I'm not sure how good it is but they listed using CCI400 primers, and started at 5.8gr True Blue and took it up to 6.5gr. Unless one of the senior members or others here have done any testing or has any different information to share this is all I could find.
"Let us never forget that good intelligence saves American lives and protects our freedom."
-Ronald Reagan

crazymikie
Junior Member
Posts: 9
Joined: 30 Mar 2010, 13:44

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by crazymikie » 29 Sep 2013, 15:38

Here is what I found-

OAL: 1.570" (Feeding issues were happening at 1.59")
Federal SR Primer
Trim to length: 1.132"
5.6 - 6.4 gr VV 3N37
Loaded with Lee dies with no crimp
All 1X fired brass

The max load yielded about 2050 fps out of a 4.75" barrel and had a 10 fps ES for 5 shot group. I didn't think going higher than that was a good idea since the case was full. I would have prefered to use 3N38, but it would have been a very compressed load. According to QuickLoad, this should be around 45k PSI (take that for what it's worth). Shoulder movement seems to be pretty consistent with factory SS197 ammo and there isn't any excessive case head expansion.

Use this at your own risk. I have some AA#7 powder I may try to use- it might yield a little more velocity.

User avatar
grimmond
Gold Member
Posts: 495
Joined: 15 Dec 2012, 14:27
Location: Washington

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by grimmond » 29 Sep 2013, 15:59

Interesting. Let us know how it goes. I plan on working it up with True Blue, Longshot, And VVn105.
"Let us never forget that good intelligence saves American lives and protects our freedom."
-Ronald Reagan

crazymikie
Junior Member
Posts: 9
Joined: 30 Mar 2010, 13:44

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by crazymikie » 29 Sep 2013, 17:20

It seems like the factory stuff clocked 1950-2050 out of a pistol, based on some videos I saw, so I figured aiming for that range was the way to go.

My guess is N105 will be too slow to get good velocity out of it. QL says a full case (6.4 gr) will only be 1800 fps. These velocities were optimistic for 3N37, so it might actually be slower than that. From other calibers I've used 3N37 with, the burn rate seems to have slowed down a bit since the QL data was collected because those figures were optimistic as well. I don't have any N105, so I'm not sure if it is off as well.

According to QL, some good starting loads for True Blue and Longshot would be 5.0 grains (that would put you at 30k PSI and should clock around 1770 fps out of a pistol. 45k PSI gets you up to 6.0 grains which should be about 1770 fps from a pistol. Again, I take no responsibility for these calculations, and use them at your own peril ;) For these projectiles, both powders seem like they should perform very similarly.

Hope that helps!

Mike
grimmond wrote:Interesting. Let us know how it goes. I plan on working it up with True Blue, Longshot, And VVn105.

tal35
Junior Member
Posts: 28
Joined: 21 Feb 2009, 13:30

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by tal35 » 09 Oct 2013, 20:32

I was told by the guy at RMR that a law enforcement agency had the ss190 and did not want AP, so it was pulled down and reloaded with another bullet.

The factory powder load on the ss190 is 6.7 grains of powder with an OAL of 1.5800 to 1.5820 from the samples I had, which is the same as the law enforcement 27grain bullet , also 6.7 grains, from what both my scales say.

I reloaded a 30grain varmint grenade with 6.2 grains of true blue with oal of 1.491" at 2601fps approx.
and 45 grain solid barnes with 5.3 grains of true blue 1.59oal approx. 2009 fps both at 83 degrees F.and was using the ar15 16 inch upper for testing. I use the AR upper first and then PS90 , and Pistol. I would rather have the AR rifle go than the FN guns.
Last edited by tal35 on 13 Oct 2013, 18:43, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
grimmond
Gold Member
Posts: 495
Joined: 15 Dec 2012, 14:27
Location: Washington

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by grimmond » 10 Oct 2013, 13:39

So I received an official response from the ATF Firearms Technology Branch today. Even though both the m855 and the ss190 round do not fit the AP make up definition, the ATF says they are both classified as AP. They stated that only the m855 bullet has been exempted. Further more they stated that by Federal law it is not illegal to use or possess AP ammunition. But as we all know the laws of your individual state may restrict it. So unless your state has laws against it you are good to go. I will attempt to post their official email later.
"Let us never forget that good intelligence saves American lives and protects our freedom."
-Ronald Reagan

User avatar
grimmond
Gold Member
Posts: 495
Joined: 15 Dec 2012, 14:27
Location: Washington

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by grimmond » 10 Oct 2013, 18:33

[email protected]

1:54 PM (5 hours ago)

Mr. XXXXXXXX,

This email is in response to the email you sent to the ATF Firearms Industry Program Branch (FIPB) concerning the legality of FN SS190 ammunition. Please see the attached link.

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2005/ ... istol.html

The SS190 round is AP. The M855 is also AP ammunition, but has been exempted. It is not illegal to use or possess AP ammunition.


If you have additional questions, you may email the ATF Firearms Technology Branch at [email protected].

If you have further any further questions, please write our branch at the address below:


ATF Firearms Technology Branch

244 Needy Road

Martinsburg, WV 25405
I guess they didn't like me asking any questions about an outdated document by the final comment of "further any further". Other then me copying the note over, I only removed my name from the intro. Also let me reemphasize that you need to double check with your individual state, county, and city for their own imposed restrictions.
"Let us never forget that good intelligence saves American lives and protects our freedom."
-Ronald Reagan

crazymikie
Junior Member
Posts: 9
Joined: 30 Mar 2010, 13:44

Re: Home Grown SS 190

Post by crazymikie » 11 Oct 2013, 04:27

Thanks for the clarification on that.

Just a word of warning- I've done some testing with 3N38 and it was pretty consistent with the figures from QuickLoad. I'm not sure if my batch of 3N37 is just really different or if the formulation has changed, but it's definitely a lot slower than the sample use for calculations in QuickLoad.

If you have an older batch of 3N37, please be sure to start really low and work up slowly. The lot number on mine is 19.8.2011.

I just got my hands on some more brass that I'm processing now and I'll try to play around with some other powders.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests