Best personal defense ammo?

Discuss 5.7x28mm factory ammunition
UpandComer
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Best personal defense ammo?

Post by UpandComer » 13 Sep 2010, 07:03

Apparently, there are a lot of different cartridges out there in 5.7x28. The question is, which is the best for defense? I'm going to buy 1,000 rounds of SS197SR for the range, but would like to buy 100 rounds to load in my defense mags.

Is it the SS192 white box, SS192 brown box, or S4 UltraRapTOR or EA ProtecTOR?

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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by panzermk2 » 13 Sep 2010, 12:06

UpandComer wrote:Apparently, there are a lot of different cartridges out there in 5.7x28. The question is, which is the best for defense? I'm going to buy 1,000 rounds of SS197SR for the range, but would like to buy 100 rounds to load in my defense mags.

Is it the SS192 white box, SS192 brown box, or S4 UltraRapTOR or EA ProtecTOR?
In this order,

S5, replaced older S4
S4
Protector
SS192/195 primarily difference is lead free primer in the SS195.
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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by User42 » 13 Sep 2010, 17:59

I carry S4. I would recommend more than 100 rounds of carry ammo, as you also want to shoot some of it to make sure your sighted in with it. Practice with the cheap stuff, but sight in for what you plan to carry.
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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by UpandComer » 13 Sep 2010, 23:23

User42 wrote:I carry S4. I would recommend more than 100 rounds of carry ammo, as you also want to shoot some of it to make sure your sighted in with it. Practice with the cheap stuff, but sight in for what you plan to carry.
Thanks! But is S5 better than S4? Seems like S4 is the hardest to get and if S5 is better anyway, well...

As for sighting it in, I don't have a CCW so it would just be for home defense use (i.e. shooting a target within 15 feet). Am I wrong or would you not need to sight it in for those ranges because there's virtually no drop from one ammo to the next at only 15 feet?

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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by jgreenberg01 » 14 Sep 2010, 04:34

There is minimal change at that range. I did a test to compare ProtecTOR, S5 and SS197 at 7 & 15 yards. POA was 1/2" above the dot...

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8441&p=123579&hili ... oi#p123579
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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by User42 » 14 Sep 2010, 18:41

S5 is new, and EA makes the bullets themselves. S4 is made with SS195/192, and requires EA to have the ammo and time to pull it down and reload it to maximum speed. For all its worth, buying new S5 is probably the best idea.
If a man dedicates his life to good deeds and the welfare of others, He will die unthanked and unremembered. If he exercises his genius bringing death and misery to billions, his name will echo down through the millennia for a hundred lifetimes.

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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by fatherfoof » 14 Sep 2010, 22:16

Jay is amazing. Yes I'd like to evaluate the S5's, but how dead is dead? I remember the trauma surgeons saying nobody could withstand a chest hit of the S4's and it stayed in my magazine eversince.
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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by UpandComer » 14 Sep 2010, 23:57

jgreenberg01 wrote:There is minimal change at that range. I did a test to compare ProtecTOR, S5 and SS197 at 7 & 15 yards. POA was 1/2" above the dot...

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8441&p=123579&hili ... oi#p123579
Cool, thanks!

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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by UpandComer » 14 Sep 2010, 23:57

User42 wrote:S5 is new, and EA makes the bullets themselves. S4 is made with SS195/192, and requires EA to have the ammo and time to pull it down and reload it to maximum speed. For all its worth, buying new S5 is probably the best idea.
Where do I buy some S5 and how much?

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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by PainKillaX » 15 Sep 2010, 00:03

UpandComer wrote:
User42 wrote:S5 is new, and EA makes the bullets themselves. S4 is made with SS195/192, and requires EA to have the ammo and time to pull it down and reload it to maximum speed. For all its worth, buying new S5 is probably the best idea.
Where do I buy some S5 and how much?
http://www.eliteammunition.net/catalog/ ... 043830.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by UpandComer » 15 Sep 2010, 14:43

PainKillaX wrote:
UpandComer wrote:
User42 wrote:S5 is new, and EA makes the bullets themselves. S4 is made with SS195/192, and requires EA to have the ammo and time to pull it down and reload it to maximum speed. For all its worth, buying new S5 is probably the best idea.
Where do I buy some S5 and how much?
http://www.eliteammunition.net/catalog/ ... 043830.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's a wicked looking bullet! And wow, $2/round ain't cheap! Guess it's cheap if your life is depending on it though.

Appears to be backordered. Anyone know when they'll have more in stock? Think I might pickup 40 rounds to load two mags with.

Would it really be necessary to sight my 57 in with the S5 if I'd only be sighting it in for 7 yards anyway? Kinda wouldn't want to waste 40 bucks sighting it in. And from jgreenberg's results, seems like it wouldn't matter to sight it in since if I sighted it with the SS197, it's so close to the S5 anyway that it wouldn't make any kind of critical difference.

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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by jgreenberg01 » 15 Sep 2010, 15:59

UpandComer wrote:Would it really be necessary to sight my 57 in with the S5 if I'd only be sighting it in for 7 yards anyway? Kinda wouldn't want to waste 40 bucks sighting it in. And from jgreenberg's results, seems like it wouldn't matter to sight it in since if I sighted it with the SS197, it's so close to the S5 anyway that it wouldn't make any kind of critical difference.
The difference in POI between S5s and ProtecTORs is negligible.
The difference in the POI (elevation) between S5s and SS197s was approximately 1.3" at 7 yards and 2.5" at 15 yards. Bearing in mind that 7 yards is probably the maximum distance you will ever use in a HD situation and typical distances inside a home are measured in feet rather than yards...

At 7-12 feet the difference will be between .5" and .75" which is minimal. I still think that it's better to sight the gun in for the round that you may depend on to protect the lives of you and your family as opposed to what you may use at the range for practice. While I primarily shoot SS197s at the range, I also believe it's important to practice with what you carry (in my case - ProtecTORs and S5s which is what my FsN is sighted for).

By the way, I used to carry ProtecTORs (with a second mag of S5s in a pocket) but after seeing the video of the S5 going through a car hood and subsequently exploding the bone in a pork shoulder, I now alternate rounds in the magazines:

Image
(Plus it looks cool!)
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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by jgreenberg01 » 16 Sep 2010, 03:26

Thanks for the heads up sat, I will change it back until I can look this up...
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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by fd57 » 16 Sep 2010, 12:32

You'll always find/face this. Which is why you need a competent and articulate attorney representing you. Because absolutely will the ammunition (brand, type, weight, etc.) be brought up in trial. I think that is why many folks carry Federal Tactical, Winchester Ranger, and Speer Gold Dots. To be able to articulate that they are carrying what law enforcement are carrying. Law enforcement sidearms aren't "shoot to kill", and there may be some in the jury who will believe/agree that "If law enforcement is doing it then it is okay".

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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by UpandComer » 16 Sep 2010, 17:39

jgreenberg01 wrote:
UpandComer wrote:Would it really be necessary to sight my 57 in with the S5 if I'd only be sighting it in for 7 yards anyway? Kinda wouldn't want to waste 40 bucks sighting it in. And from jgreenberg's results, seems like it wouldn't matter to sight it in since if I sighted it with the SS197, it's so close to the S5 anyway that it wouldn't make any kind of critical difference.
The difference in POI between S5s and ProtecTORs is negligible.
The difference in the POI (elevation) between S5s and SS197s was approximately 1.3" at 7 yards and 2.5" at 15 yards. Bearing in mind that 7 yards is probably the maximum distance you will ever use in a HD situation and typical distances inside a home are measured in feet rather than yards...

At 7-12 feet the difference will be between .5" and .75" which is minimal. I still think that it's better to sight the gun in for the round that you may depend on to protect the lives of you and your family as opposed to what you may use at the range for practice. While I primarily shoot SS197s at the range, I also believe it's important to practice with what you carry (in my case - ProtecTORs and S5s which is what my FsN is sighted for).

By the way, I used to carry ProtecTORs (with a second mag of S5s in a pocket) but after seeing the video of the S5 going through a car hood and subsequently exploding the bone in a pork shoulder, I now alternate rounds in the magazines:

Image
(Plus it looks cool!)
Think I'll sight the laser in for 4 yards/12 feet and then use the adjustable top sights for the range. What do you think?

Also, can you clarify this: "I used to carry ProtecTORs (with a second mag of S5s in a pocket) but after seeing the video of the S5 going through a car hood and subsequently exploding the bone in a pork shoulder, I now alternate rounds in the magazines" I don't understand at all. Is the S5 going through a car hood good or bad? Did someone fire it or it went off accidentally? I don't understand? And why alternate rounds in the same mag?

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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by UpandComer » 16 Sep 2010, 17:42

fd57 wrote:You'll always find/face this. Which is why you need a competent and articulate attorney representing you. Because absolutely will the ammunition (brand, type, weight, etc.) be brought up in trial. I think that is why many folks carry Federal Tactical, Winchester Ranger, and Speer Gold Dots. To be able to articulate that they are carrying what law enforcement are carrying. Law enforcement sidearms aren't "shoot to kill", and there may be some in the jury who will believe/agree that "If law enforcement is doing it then it is okay".
If the guy is in your house, at least in castle states, you can drop a bomb on the guy or toss a grenade between his feet and it wouldn't matter. Hell, you could fire 100 rounds out of a mini gun at him and I'm pretty sure law enforcement doesn't use those. :p

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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by UpandComer » 16 Sep 2010, 17:44

satellitedr3ams wrote:jgreen, court can kinda eat your ass alive "combat" loading. gotta lawyer that comes in the shop said if you think you may have to use it, just empty it or use one type of round in a mag. im almost sure is the one who had a case where the defendant had "combat" loaded the mag, and they said that he premeditated how he was going to kill someone if they attacked him and it worked out worse for him in the long run, even though it was for self defense. just informing you of this.
What is combat loading for us noobs?

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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by fd57 » 16 Sep 2010, 17:57

Regarding the "if the guy is in your house ..." statement. I respectfully disagree, and will add that it depends upon the state that you live in, regarding your course of action in defending yourself and/or your home.

And never, ever, doubt the value of finding a good attorney now, before you need one, and having that point of contact in place for when you do need one. Preventative vs. reactionary. Ounce of prevention ...

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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by blueorison » 16 Sep 2010, 18:04

UpandComer wrote:
satellitedr3ams wrote:jgreen, court can kinda eat your ass alive "combat" loading. gotta lawyer that comes in the shop said if you think you may have to use it, just empty it or use one type of round in a mag. im almost sure is the one who had a case where the defendant had "combat" loaded the mag, and they said that he premeditated how he was going to kill someone if they attacked him and it worked out worse for him in the long run, even though it was for self defense. just informing you of this.
What is combat loading for us noobs?
He meant he originally loaded up with Protectors; after seeing S5's ballistic results, he now alternates S5's with his Protectors.

His phrasing of "Combat Loading" refers to hotly-loaded +P/+ ammunition or specially crafted ammunition meant to take down higher-threat targets instantly. Such an example would be Speer Gold Dot, +P+ loadings of HP's, or S4.

Hope that helps.
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Re: Best personal defense ammo?

Post by panzermk2 » 16 Sep 2010, 21:15

UpandComer wrote:, I now alternate rounds in the magazines" I don't understand at all. Is the S5 going through a car hood good or bad? Did someone fire it or it went off accidentally? I don't understand? And why alternate rounds in the same mag?

You need to check out this thread. We shot through auto body panel simulating having to shoot a BG through a car door or other barrier.
This thread has pictures, vidoes and in depth explanations of not only the S5 but ALL of our product line.

http://99.172.28.100/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8623" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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