California legal?

[binthere55]

Hi all!.....I have a question that begs to be answered by someone that really knows the answer.
I just purchased a 5.7 in dark earth color, USG model. I was told by the buyer, (and I believe him) that
he had sold and shipped a couple of these to California in the last couple years. No issues.
Well, my gun is at my FFL and they say they cannot register it to me here in California.
The reason?....The California "list" of approved handguns does not list the dark earth color, only the
black matte color. So my FFL told me they cannot register it and won't even try.
The only difference in the black USG and this dark earth USG is the COLOR!!!
Does anyone here, PLEASE! , have a definitive answer to this most frustrating situation?
I mean, I know Calif gun laws defy all logic and reason, but really?.....Is this the final
answer I must accept?....Somehow I don't think it is. Has anyone here recently shipped an FN 5.7 ( not black)
to California to a buyer and knows that it got registered ok and can either tell me how they did it,or direct
me to an FFL here that knows how to do it?......I REALLY want this gun and do not want to have to ship it back
and get a black one if I don't have to.......any help here?....ughghgghg This has been hell!......THANKS!
Mike in Ca.

[dhpierre]

Sorry but it seems like the bad news that you got from your FFL is true. According to the State of California Dept. of Justice, Bureau of Firearms, Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale, The only FsNs certified for sale in CA are the FN 5.7 I.O.M. (Matte Black) and the FN 5.7 U.S.G. (Matte Black). You can look this up for yourself at: http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

CA gets real picky and asinine about it's handgun list and most companys don't want to pay to have every model that they make tested. According to the CA DOJ, Bureau of Firearms:

"Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement."

[CenCalSplicer]

Was this a private party purchase?

Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement."

If not, find a used one that has been fired once and you're gtg.

[dhpierre]

Was this a private party purchase?

Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement."

If not, find a used one that has been fired once and you're gtg.

That's good to know. He may still get his FsN! :clap:

[57js]

I believe the single shot exemption is still the law in California. Costs more money, but that should allow you to purchase a firearm that isn't on the approved list.

[CenCalSplicer]

There are off list FsN's on calguns every now and then but they want an arm and a leg for them. I hear that the all black versions shoot just as well. That could just be a rumor...

[Rapier1772]

I hear that the all black versions shoot just as well. That could just be a rumor...

Only if you leave the bar code sticker on

[CenCalSplicer]

I hear that the all black versions shoot just as well. That could just be a rumor...

Only if you leave the bar code sticker on

Haaa, I almost forgot about that. Definitely keep the sticker on it.

[leanbike]

California is a pretty triply place for firearms. last year, it took my ffa guy 7 months to get my 57 to clear the doj website. in the mean time he collected every calif ffa gatekeeper's contact info as he got passed up the ladder. the only thing that we could surmise is that this particular black 57's serial number was never passed on to the calif doj. But i am sooooo glad i had the patients.

[500SWfan]

California is a pretty triply place for firearms. last year, it took my ffa guy 7 months to get my 57 to clear the doj website. in the mean time he collected every calif ffa gatekeeper's contact info as he got passed up the ladder. the only thing that we could surmise is that this particular black 57's serial number was never passed on to the calif doj. But i am sooooo glad i had the patients.

"Patients"? Are you a doctor? :p
Sorry, the grammar nazi in me just reared its ugly head
Congrats on the 5-7.

[ByteMe72]

As a fellow inmate of the Kommiefornia asylum, I can confirm that this is indeed true. The California DOJ is absurdly picky/strict about the "Not unsafe handgun roster" and even a color/finish difference makes for a different model in their eyes, which requires a specific listing for just that model.

There are two ways around this BS:

1. Private party tranfers: PPTs are exempt from the list. Unfortunately, that means the pistol must already be owned in the state.

2. Single-Shot Exemption (SSE): single-shot pistols with barrels longer than 6" are also exempt from the list. The pistol must be purchased in the single-shot configuration to start with, and once in your possession may then be modified back to whatever configuration you'd like (as long as it meets all other applicable laws except the roster).

For the PPT route to work, the pistol must already be owned in the state. The most common path to this is law enforcement purchases. LEOs are exempt from the roster, even for personal purchases, and when/if they decide to sell a firearm they are free to sell to whomever, even the unwashed masses. These transfers are supposed to be "infrequent" and there is plentiful evidence that the DOJ *DOES* keep an eye on officers that sell "too many" weapons. A couple have even been busted for it; the DOJ doesn't like the notion of cops setting up as private gun shops I guess. If you have a LEO friend, you may be able to go this route.

For the SSE route, the pistol must be modified (it can be done by the FFL). You will need to obtain a 6" or longer barrel (this is one of the reasons you'll see people crop up on this board asking about where to buy longer barrels for the FsN) and some sort of gadget to lock the magazine release and plug the magazine well so that only one round at a time can be fed into the chamber manually. This gizmo must be installed such that it will require tools - even just a screwdriver - to remove (i.e. you can't just stuff something in there, it has to mechanically become part of the pistol and completely preclude removal of said gizmo without some sort of tool and dissassembly process). Once the FFL certifies that the pistol is "single-shot" it is exempt and fully transferable. Once you are in possession, you may then freely configure it back by getting rid of the gizmo and swapping back to the factory barrel. Stupid, yes, but this is Kommiefornia after all. Many tens of thousands of "off-roster" guns legally enter the state every year this way. Check here for very specific legal and process details: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/show ... p?t=383692 This includes a list of FFLs that will do this sort of thing. If your FFL is not on the list (seems likely based on your post) you will need to have your FFL send it over to one of the FFLs that WILL do the work. Expect to pay extra and take extra time.

[bobapunk]

I have a Matte Black FsN I'll trade you!

[Ehmark]

So how exactly did I get my OD FsN if only black is approved?

[MrSlippyFist]

So how exactly did I get my OD FsN if only black is approved?

A dealer, LE, other peace officer or some other party that was exempt bought it, and sold it to you or someone else. That's how people in PRK legally get pistols that are off-list. Thru PPT.

[huddleston101]

So how exactly did I get my OD FsN if only black is approved?

A dealer, LE, other peace officer or some other party that was exempt bought it, and sold it to you or someone else. That's how people in PRK legally get pistols that are off-list. Thru PPT.

uuumm hammer met nail :p

[Ehmark]

No. I bought it new from a dealer. It was special ordered for me.

[MrSlippyFist]

How is that not exactly what I just said?

It is a bit of a grey area. Those who can get them do a PPT to make it legit, obviously at a premium. DEALERS can get the weapon. THEN they can sell them privately in a PPT. Legally making the off-list weapon available to joe-schmoe. I would have obtained one while in PRK if it weren't for the outrageous prices for a simple service.

If you obtained an off-list weapon by other means, I wouldn't be advertising it.

[ByteMe72]

Well, there is also simple user error. I have read anecdotes of some folks innocently going into shops, ordering items (like an OD FsN) that are off-roster, and having them transferred by an FFL that doesn't know any better (which blows my mind, but it happens: FFLs are human too). The responsibility for identifying rostered items lies with the FFL and if they err, there's nothing to catch them but an audit. It can be trickier than you think, since FFLs/dealers can obtain MANY items that are usually not available to ordinary citizens here (think "high capacity" magazines, off-roster handguns, etc.). Keeping track of what is legal for whom can be a full-time job in itself; it's breathtakingly easy to make a mistake when you're talking about something as simple as a different color frame. There are no alarms that go off at CALDOJ if some FFL somewhere is mistakenly transferring an off-roster gun. If it went down exactly as you say then it shouldn't have happened; there was a mistake made somewhere along the line by the FFL.

I think it likelier that what you saw as a "brand new special order" from your point of view might have been a consignment from their point of view. The gun itself was indeed probably new, as in not handled/fired by a consumer, but had probably previously been owned by somebody in-state (possibly a LEO, perhaps a personal posession of a dealer). That doesn't change the fact that it is now yours and you are now part of the brotherhood!