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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:49 pm 
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Mtn Man in Flatland

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AMax doesn't compare with SMKs. No way, no how. They are severely less as a VLD. And I can usually get SMKs as cheap if not cheaper than the AMax's They used to be the cats pajamas though. IN any case, you are buying VLDs, there is ZERO reason to not load Berger or better custom bullets unless they don't have it in your caliber. For a while, the new Berger 300 Hybrids in 338 were crap, but the fixed the OTM design, and now I use that instead of the 300 SMKs.

And their brass isn't close to as good as Norma and it is usually priced about the same. Winchester's new brass is almost as good in my testing, so for the calibers I can't get Lapua in or Nosler Custom, I usually jump down to Winchester. The Hornady ain't worth it.

I wouldn't by any hornady component other than a few of their Varmint bullets and even then there are better options on the market in most calibers. Their 87 gr 6mm is pretty solid still though.

Now loaded ammo, that is another story. But I don't buy much loaded ammo these days. Just 223, 9mm, and 45 every once in a while if it is a good deal. I can reload everything else for way less, and more accuracy.

Hornady has a great brand identity. It is solid loaded ammo, and not bad components, but it is 2nd tier in my book. Plus the whole Z-Max zombi crap makes me want to puke. :D


Last edited by flyingirish04 on Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:57 pm 
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flyingirish04 wrote:
Amax doesn't compare with SMKs. No way, no how. They are severely less as a VLD. They used to be the cats pajamas though. IN any case, you are buying VLDs, there is ZERO reason to not load Berger or better custom bullets.

And their brass isn't close to as good as Norma and it is usually priced about the same. Winchester's new brass is almost as good in my testing, so for the calibers I can't get Lapua in or Nosler Custom, I usually jump down to Winchester. The Hornady ain't worth it.

I wouldn't by any hornady component other than a few of their Varmint bullets and even then there are better options on the market in most calibers. Their 87 gr 6mm is pretty solid still though.

Now loaded ammo, that is another story. But I don't buy much loaded ammo these days. Just 223, 9mm, and 45 every once in a while if it is a good deal. I can reload everything else for way less, and more accuracy.

Hornady has a great brand identity. It is solid loaded ammo, and not bad components, but it is 2nd tier in my book. Plus the whole Z-Max zombi crap makes me want to puke. :D


I whole-heartedly agree with Irish. Not even close. Shoot 6-800 yards and you'll realize why.

If Irish and I see face to face on this... :cya:



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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:28 pm 
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odd, everything ive read on snipershide said they had similar performance. i havent tested myself because i have a ton of SMKs but i did plan on testing a load once my supply dries up


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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:41 pm 
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spyderco monkey sez:
ATK was developing a new plinking round for the FN.

GONRA sez: Make SURE it's not that Lead Free primer crap
unless yer gonna shoot it up immediately.
Make sure its THIS stuff:
* Usual arms companies: normal lead styphnate hydrate / tetrazene primers.
* Federal (ATK?): basic lead styphnate / tetrazene primers.

Above "lead primers" (read RWS 1920's era "sinoxid" patent)
have essentially infinite shelf life and are Just Fine.
YER NOT GONNA GET LEAD POISENING!
Have nice weekend......


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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:39 pm 
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Mtn Man in Flatland

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srt-4_jon wrote:
odd, everything ive read on snipershide said they had similar performance. i havent tested myself because i have a ton of SMKs but i did plan on testing a load once my supply dries up


I haven't read that, but I don't go on snipershide much. Too many pretenders. I am guessing they are telling you to shoot 308 168 gr AMax's? First, a 308 is not a naturally long range round, and even if you use it, the 175 SMKs are way better.

I know that AMax's for any kind of LR hunting are not generally used anymore. In fact, SMKs are getting dated as well. The new OTM Hybrids are where the LR projectile market is going IMO.

But people love their Hornady. They make Z-Max! ;)



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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:11 pm 
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flyingirish04 wrote:
But people love their Hornady. They make Z-Max! ;)



:cool: :guns: :patriot: :monkey: :cool: :guns:



:p


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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Mtn Man in Flatland

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:laugh:



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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:29 pm 
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I shoot the 175gr smk because i get pulldowns for cheap. like i said, i have zero 1st hand knowledge on the amax, just what i have read


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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:53 am 
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Mtn Man in Flatland

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Well, I will give you this on AMax, they make a decently made 50BMG precision projectile. I just don't shoot a 50BMG



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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:16 pm 
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Talked to Hornady yesterday, they denied the rumor, say they have no plans for a 5.7 loading.

I talked to Wolf, they may be interested if I can give them the # of 5.7 weapons in circulation and # of rounds sold each year. Anyone got any info on that?


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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:09 pm 
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i highly doubt it will be anywhere close to enough to get wolf to make it. it cant hurt but i wouldnt get any hopes up


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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:40 am 
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flyingirish04 wrote:

Hornady has a great brand identity. It is solid loaded ammo, and not bad components, but it is 2nd tier in my book. Plus the whole Z-Max zombi crap makes me want to puke. :D


Hornaday TAP .223 is THE standard for law enforcement! My duty AR is loaded with .223 TAP Urban.


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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:14 am 
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Mtn Man in Flatland

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I have never heard that about TAP.

My best friend deals ammo to the military and LE. My cousin is part of Portland SERT as one of their snipers, and his day job is running R&D and procurement of new equipment for them.. A ton of my friends from the service are some type of LE now.

Ballistic tip ammo is HIGHLY frowned upon in most departments just from a PR perspective, not to mention the crap projectile the v-max is in comparison to other ammo out there at any kind of range. Their 75 gr I have heard are nice, but that isn't what is in the urban. And it is not as efficient of a bullet as a SMKS or the new BTHP from Nosler in the BH ammo.

I was under the impression most use some version of a 77 gr BTHP for a duty round. They also use HSM predetor rounds for a ton of there close range high ground support where shooting thru windows is a must.

Fly, you can weigh in from your perspective. EARs can too. I was always under the impression that TAP was a marketing gimmic to get people to buy TACTICAL ammo. Not that isn't good, but that most dept went with a more generic or more LEO only round like the ranger or HSMs line.

In any case, there is ZERO chance it is 'THE standard'. I am sure though that several LEOs use it and love it, like yourself.

The fact still remains that there are many higher quality choices out there. :thumb:



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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:35 am 
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flyingirish04 wrote:
In any case, there is ZERO chance it is 'THE standard'.


Irish, you are way out of line here. I completely disagree with you.

Don't you know that TAP is the standard of tacticool operators on their xbox's and mall ninjas everywhere?!

They are the true SME's. You just are jealous they have 100 more loaded mags than you sitting in their safes. :lmao:

:cya:



_________________
I do not deserve this life I have been given.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Please realize correlation =/= causation.
Plural opinions don't equate to truth.

I throw sub-MOA rocks.

Stop relying on others to do the work for you. Challenge the brainwashed.
Shoot more, worry less.
Use the search function.
Smile. Always. .' ]
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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:36 am 
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You are right. I apologize. :)



I do own some TAP still. Not completely ANTI-HORNADY. Didn't want to give that impression. Not even ANTI-TAP. Have some of their buckshot, some of their 223, and 9mm and 45 as well. Shot a ton of it. I would stick with HSTs for pistols, and several other options for rifle. And their Buckshot, I believe even hornady went with another shell and wad now that is better.



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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:14 pm 
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flyingirish04 wrote:
You are right. I apologize. :)



I do own some TAP still. Not completely ANTI-HORNADY. Didn't want to give that impression. Not even ANTI-TAP. Have some of their buckshot, some of their 223, and 9mm and 45 as well. Shot a ton of it. I would stick with HSTs for pistols, and several other options for rifle. And their Buckshot, I believe even hornady went with another shell and wad now that is better.


TAP used to be sooo much tacticooler (yes I said tacticooler) when it had the black casings. Everyone knows black is the most accurate color for casings. Now its got nickel casings so you can see how many rounds are in your gun! To think, I actually used to have to keep track of how many rounds I fired myself. If Hornady could somehow just combine z-max and tap I would never shoot anything else.

Obviously I am joking, but TAP does shoot really well out of my glock 21sf and, therefore, I usually have some on hand.

nrv216


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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:07 pm 
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nrv216 wrote:
flyingirish04 wrote:
You are right. I apologize. :)



I do own some TAP still. Not completely ANTI-HORNADY. Didn't want to give that impression. Not even ANTI-TAP. Have some of their buckshot, some of their 223, and 9mm and 45 as well. Shot a ton of it. I would stick with HSTs for pistols, and several other options for rifle. And their Buckshot, I believe even hornady went with another shell and wad now that is better.


TAP used to be sooo much tacticooler (yes I said tacticooler) when it had the black casings. Everyone knows black is the most accurate color for casings. Now its got nickel casings so you can see how many rounds are in your gun! To think, I actually used to have to keep track of how many rounds I fired myself. If Hornady could somehow just combine z-max and tap I would never shoot anything else.

Obviously I am joking, but TAP does shoot really well out of my glock 21sf and, therefore, I usually have some on hand.

nrv216


You know, walmart FMJ also shoots really well out of my glock! WAIT, pretty much all 9mm shoots well out of a glock, nevermind. :lmao:



_________________
I do not deserve this life I have been given.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Please realize correlation =/= causation.
Plural opinions don't equate to truth.

I throw sub-MOA rocks.

Stop relying on others to do the work for you. Challenge the brainwashed.
Shoot more, worry less.
Use the search function.
Smile. Always. .' ]
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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:14 pm 
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60gr urban tap (vmax bullet) is the only tap round that comes close to min penetration. You'll only get 6-7" with 40gr tap , and that certainly isn't any standard. I believe a lot of standards are some of the barrier blind 62gr open tip match stuff


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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:30 am 
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nrv216 wrote:
flyingirish04 wrote:
You are right. I apologize. :)



I do own some TAP still. Not completely ANTI-HORNADY. Didn't want to give that impression. Not even ANTI-TAP. Have some of their buckshot, some of their 223, and 9mm and 45 as well. Shot a ton of it. I would stick with HSTs for pistols, and several other options for rifle. And their Buckshot, I believe even hornady went with another shell and wad now that is better.


TAP used to be sooo much tacticooler (yes I said tacticooler) when it had the black casings. Everyone knows black is the most accurate color for casings. Now its got nickel casings so you can see how many rounds are in your gun! To think, I actually used to have to keep track of how many rounds I fired myself. If Hornady could somehow just combine z-max and tap I would never shoot anything else.

Obviously I am joking, but TAP does shoot really well out of my glock 21sf and, therefore, I usually have some on hand.

nrv216


TAP is not "Black" or "Nickel", I think you are referring to Hornaday FPD. Not TAP.


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 Post subject: Re: News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:41 am 
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Hornady FPD is part of TAP.

http://www.hornady.com/store/TAP-FPD-handgun

From Hornady's own mouth.



_________________
I do not deserve this life I have been given.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Please realize correlation =/= causation.
Plural opinions don't equate to truth.

I throw sub-MOA rocks.

Stop relying on others to do the work for you. Challenge the brainwashed.
Shoot more, worry less.
Use the search function.
Smile. Always. .' ]
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