Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Reloading info for the 5.7x28mm

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grimmond
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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by grimmond » 07 Jan 2015, 20:09

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From the FSN it is not going fast enough to fragment as you can see in my 20% Gel test. Depending on the powder used I have chronographed it as high as 2004fps using the EFK threaded barrel. My Normal load avg 1910fps.
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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by Rapier1772 » 07 Jan 2015, 20:20

Well that's kinda sucky. I bought these for the 5.7 platforms but I may have to use them in the AR-15 if they don't play well. :cry:
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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by blueorison » 08 Jan 2015, 01:38

Rapier; I sent you a PM on the testing of the LeHigh rounds Grimmond sent me.
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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by PainKillaX » 08 Jan 2015, 02:31

Are they made to fragment, or tumble and yaw like the 28gr open tip rounds?

Second question, what twist would it take to stabilize a 45gr round out of a .223/5.56? My impression was that 1:7 was better for 62+ and 1:9 was <55, with 1:8 falling somewhere in between. Do they make other twist rates, at least for ARs?

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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by grimmond » 08 Jan 2015, 07:31

According to Lehigh they are designed to fragment from hydrolic pressure, but it requires a faster velocity. They did not appear to tumble or fragment in that gel unless I am reading the results wrong. They were designed as a round for the AR15 and they have them already loaded for those that don't reload. They have no issue with any of the twist rates in the AR that I have heard of.
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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by bruteandbear1 » 08 Jan 2015, 07:38

They appear to tumble when i do my testing!! I love them but they require a faster velocity to fragment. I have shot a pork shoulder with one and it got a bigger wound channel than my buddies 45acp hydrashock:-). So even though they don't fragment the wound channels are pretty amazing. I use them for self defense and they are also the most accurate of all my reloads.

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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by kmiles » 11 Jan 2015, 04:45

My box of 500 of these showed up yesterday. Did anyone else notice if their box says "obsolete" after the bullet description? I am wondering if we are getting the last run of these bullets. If so I might order another box to put on the shelf for later use. I am about to the point of losing the battle of not getting a PS90, so the extra velocity out of the PS90 may make these bullets act as designed. My will power has been strong enough to keep from buying the PS90 since I bought the FsN 3 years ago, but I think that may change soon. If I could find a good deal on a new or slightly used tri-rail, I would buy it today.

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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by JollyRogers » 11 Jan 2015, 05:19

kmiles wrote:...Did anyone else notice if their box says "obsolete" after the bullet description? I am wondering if we are getting the last run of these bullets. If so I might order another box to put on the shelf for later use...
From their website:

NOTE

1. Original Design

2. Released the Eco/Green Bullet in April of 2014 - Replaces this design

3. One TIme Offer - Selling in Bulk at a discount to clear out inventory

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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by kmiles » 11 Jan 2015, 06:31

I see that now. Did not go into the bullet details when I ordered. I guess I will get a couple more boxes for the shelf.

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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by grimmond » 11 Jan 2015, 08:15

Guys just a FYI. The new design is the exact same and the metal was changed slightly for PRC. The only difference is in the composition of the metal. I have both versions and they look identical. The new metal has no lead in it to be California compliant. I have fired both many times and have not noticed any difference. If you want a cheap price buy the old. But there is not an issue with production.
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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by kfeltenberger » 11 Jan 2015, 13:49

I really wish companies wouldn't kowtow to California...but I guess that's a discussion for another thread.

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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by bruteandbear1 » 12 Jan 2015, 14:05

grimmond wrote:According to Lehigh they are designed to fragment from hydrolic pressure, but it requires a faster velocity. They did not appear to tumble or fragment in that gel unless I am reading the results wrong. They were designed as a round for the AR15 and they have them already loaded for those that don't reload. They have no issue with any of the twist rates in the AR that I have heard of.
Grimmond I shot a level 3A vest strapped to a filing cabinet with the 3/32" sheet metal dividers in them. When it went through the vest and through the dividers the hole was much bigger than the bullet and it also tumbled through all 3 of the dividers and found the bullet caught on the bottom of filing cabinet. When I shot my pork shoulder the wound channel was much bigger than my 27 grain reloads and also bigger than the 45acp pork shoulder test.

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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by kmiles » 16 Jun 2015, 10:14

I finally loaded up some of these for testing this past weekend using True Blue, once fired brass with CCI Small Rifle primers. These loads were for the FsN with a stock barrel.

I started at 5.2 grains of True Blue, and worked up to 5.8. I have not purchased a chrono yet because my range is an elevated platform, so it would be difficult to set up there, so no speeds. Loaded 5 of each, and all functioned fine. The 5.2 seemed a bit weak on the recoil, but it got better as I went up. Saw some very slight flattening of the primers at 5.7 grains. At 5.8 the flattening of the primers and "flowing" of the primer strike point was much more pronounced. I am not comfortable above 5.8 grains, and will back down to 5.6 when I load them in bulk.

Accuracy was about the same across the range and is most likely a factor of the shooter more than the load or bullet. Our pistol range is 15 yards, and was hitting about a 4 inch group at that range, unsupported. Out of 35 shots fired, all but 1-2 would be head or heart shots easily.

We have some 1/4" and 5/16" scrap steel at work, so I might take bring the FsN to work and see if and at what ranges they will go through.

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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by jkelley209 » 16 Jun 2015, 11:40

Go to about 17 minute mark i've chrono'd all the True Blue it should help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTM2MswyLgg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by kmiles » 17 Jun 2015, 05:49

Have you done a video with the 45 gr. controlled chaos? It looks like that video is only using the 40 gr. vmax. The max loads and velocities differ quite a bit between the 2 bullets.

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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by jkelley209 » 17 Jun 2015, 07:30

no but i did one with the 35 grain V-Max max load 8.2 grains Accurate No. 7 blew the primers right out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xld71Nn83xQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by grimmond » 17 Jun 2015, 09:19

kmiles, I and others have found the max to be 5.8gr.. Above that is damaging to your pistol and self. 5.4gr to 5.6gr will be ok for bulk. 5.6gr to 5.8gr will shorten the life of reloading the brass.
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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by panzermk2 » 17 Jun 2015, 11:23

jkelley209 wrote:no but i did one with the 35 grain V-Max max load 8.2 grains Accurate No. 7 blew the primers right out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xld71Nn83xQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
8.2 of #7?

WTF You went straight to the max?

With that FPS you where at 65k PSI.

You really need to stick to tried and tested load data here on the forum.


Your friggin lucky to still have a hand.
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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by jkelley209 » 17 Jun 2015, 12:10

Jay, How do you get the velocities you get?

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Re: Lehigh Defense "Controlled Chaos"

Post by panzermk2 » 17 Jun 2015, 12:41

jkelley209 wrote:Jay, How do you get the velocities you get?
For one thing thousands of rounds tested over almost a decade now, thousands invested in ballistic lab equipment and also using non commercial powders.

For every powder a hand loader can buy in a jug there are 10+ not counting custom blended commercial powders.

These keg powders they are called, even though they don't come in kegs anymore, have no load data. Just density, size, shape and energy measured in joules. You have to start from scratch and create all load data.
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