I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

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ShockedNKansas
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I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 12 Aug 2012, 11:43

I have been researching value black rifles and have settled on either the Smith and Wesson M&P Sport or the Palmetto State Armory M4. I know the Smith and Wesson is without a dust cover and forward assist, but people just rave about how they shoot and frequently utter the magic words, "it shoots like a much more expensive gun." That being said, the PSA M4 seems to have better components (plus the dust cover and forward assist) and has a great reputation. The warranty on the M&P is lifetime, I'm not so sure about PSA.

Any opinions? Any other value AR's to consider that I might have missed?

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by fzr confused » 12 Aug 2012, 12:20

the s&w shoots pretty good not gunna lie. my uncle picked 1 up and loves it. i have a rra and i love it, comparing the 2 in my eyes (no where near a professional or all knowing) they both seem rather equal minus what you mentioned already. to me, spending much more than 8-900 on an ar is pointless until you go all the way to fully built and custom. i would not think twice about picking up either another rra or the s&w to save a few bucks. i really want to pick up another ar and put the bump fire on it for shiggles.

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 12 Aug 2012, 16:07

The RRA's seem to be hovering around 900-1000. I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the PSA for 699.00. The reviews have been stellar. Thousands and thousands of rounds without a misfire. Many compare it to the 1,100.00 Colts. :)

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by blueorison » 12 Aug 2012, 16:57

I have seen firsthand both S&W and PSA **** up.

Shoot 3G long enough, and you will see almost every brand **** up.

The end.
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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 12 Aug 2012, 17:14

blueorison wrote:I have seen firsthand both S&W and PSA **** up.

The end.
Very definitive sounding...

In that vein, I guess one could expect every brand of rifle to **** up at some point or another. The PSA I am looking at has quality components such as a chrome molly vanadium FN 5.56 Mil Spec barrel. The rifle seems to have excellent fit and finish and has a lot of fans on the big AR forums. Also, the fact that FN has a hand in the rifle seems like destiny.. :patriot:

I'm pretty much sold on this baby unless someone can locate a better rifle for the same price. Most agree that this is the best AR you can buy for the money - component-wise.

The elections are coming so I need to secure a "black assault rifle" now. :)

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by jgreenberg01 » 12 Aug 2012, 18:19

blueorison wrote:I have seen firsthand both S&W and PSA **** up.

Shoot 3G long enough, and you will see almost every brand **** up.

The end.
My DPMS has never ****ed up. But then again, I only have about 2k rounds through it.
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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by fzr confused » 12 Aug 2012, 18:41

i have approx 10k rounds through my rra and can not recall a single problem with mine, besides maybe a failure to fire which was ammo related.

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by Team Helotes » 12 Aug 2012, 20:23

Look at Stag, both of mine shot great.

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by c1demo » 13 Aug 2012, 03:30

The elections are coming so I need to secure a "black assault rifle" now. :)[/quote]

And high capacity magazines!

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by toyslr » 13 Aug 2012, 05:49

Eventually everything will fail one way or the other! Never dealt with PSA but hear good things, S&W well it is nice to have a forward assit, just in case.
I own several Colts (fanboy!) and RRA's

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 13 Aug 2012, 07:16

Image

She's on her way to my FFL. I'm tickled ****less. 699.00 + 16.41 s/h. Classic Firearms are good people.

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by fzr confused » 13 Aug 2012, 10:09

Nice! Enjoy it!

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by flyingirish04 » 13 Aug 2012, 10:35

I don't like either, but that's me.
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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by Cyberfly » 13 Aug 2012, 13:36

flyingirish04 wrote:I don't like either, but that's me.
Elitist... :p
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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 13 Aug 2012, 14:46

"Barrel: A proprietary blend of Hammer forged chrome molly vanadium made by FN that is referred to as "Machine Gun Steel" by virtue of its use in FN's M249 and M240 weapons. The hammer forging process work hardens the steel, making it more durable. In addition, the chrome process for the bore allows for a lining almost twice as thick as a standard M16 for enhanced durability. Chambered in 5.56 NATO, with a 1/7 twist, M4 barrel extension. Mil-spec phosphate coated, MP and HP tested. Barrel is finished off with an F-marked front sight post with sling swivel, and A2 flash hider.

Upper: Forged 7075-T6 A3 AR upper is made to MIL-SPECS and hard coat anodized black for durability. Featuring machined T marks, and a mil-spec finish. These uppers are made for us right here in the USA by a mil-spec manufacturer, and are marked with the Palmetto State Armory logo on the left side, up front, just below the rail.

Bolt: Bolt is made of Mil-spec Carpenter 158 steel, Shot peened, and MPI. Gas key is secured with grade 8 fasteners and staked per mil-spec. Bolt carrier is parkerized outside, chrome lined inside, and laser engraved with the Palmetto State Armory logo."
This gun has me really excited. Apparently PSA is really close to an FN factory. They keep good company. :)

Now I need to get a 5.7 upper. :clap:

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 16 Aug 2012, 18:34

Well I picked up my AR from the FFL today. I'm a happy boy. Now the ammo, optics, sling, and extra mags need to arrive.... .... .... :guns:

The rifle came with a Magpul PMAG.. man I LOVE that mag. It is very intelligently designed and sturdy feeling.

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by blacklabelop » 16 Aug 2012, 19:01

i only run pmags.. im like 100 deep

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 16 Aug 2012, 20:08

blacklabelop wrote:i only run pmags.. im like 100 deep
Niiiiice.

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 23 Aug 2012, 19:19

Well, here is my new rifle. Optics are on and I have a healthy stack of ammo on the table. I have broken down the rifle and am now fairly versed in AR care (it was more complicated than I thought). The optics are bright and I can keep it on medium intensity (I think there are 9 brightness settings) outdoors. However, if I am in some bright sun, it will probably require the max brightness.

There is unlimited eye relief and only 1 inch parallax at 50 yards, after that no parallax. The tube is aluminum and feels like great quality. The 30mm mounting ring was included and was very solid and quite heavy. I haven't shot it yet to see how it holds zero, but it should be fine -- "High recoil rating. Tested with .375 H&H Magnum for 1000 rounds.".

Oh... and when my Magpul MBUS is up I can co-witness easily. Once I get everything sighted in, I will be Ninja-ready.


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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by flyingirish04 » 24 Aug 2012, 06:37

Cyberfly wrote:
flyingirish04 wrote:I don't like either, but that's me.
Elitist... :p
When it comes to firearms...a bit. I am picky when I am adding to my collection. But I always say 'too each their own'.

Back to the AR. Looked at those vortex aimpoint style red dots. They seem well constructed. Vortex makes pretty decent midrange pricepoint scopes and sights for sure.
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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by blacklabelop » 24 Aug 2012, 08:03

Sweet!

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by jmz5 » 28 Aug 2012, 03:47

Get a hogue grip too, they are worth their weight in gold.
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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by FARGO » 28 Aug 2012, 11:04

Just built one, got the lower (a bushmaster) from a friend who got it at a gun show. It was brand new, 200 bucks with an A3 stock and LPK already installed. I ordered my upper from palmettostatearmory.com they do really nice work, their uppers are made from FN parts and are not too expensive, i paid 517 for a full upper. You can pick one up from them for about 300 bucks just depends on what you are looking for.

I built this one for the sole purpose of dragging it through the woods and not having to worry about scratching it up. Its extremely reliable, I would say this build is nicer than a few of my ARs that were in the $1500 to $2500 range. Its by no means a tack driver but hey, i can put MOA groups down range with open sights just fine.

Palmetto also has great prices on ammo, their PMC X-tac prices are always the best, free shipping included.

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by Cwc » 28 Aug 2012, 20:05

Anyone have any thoughts on Windham Weaponry. Looks to be a mil spec at a good price.

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 30 Aug 2012, 09:51

jmz5 wrote:Get a hogue grip too, they are worth their weight in gold.
I am definitely looking into a new grip, because the standard one that came with the rifle has a little edge around the bottom of the trigger guard that really irritates my finger. I think I've heard of people grinding that edge off, but I'd rather just get a new grip.

I have heard tremendous things about the Magpul MOE grip. Do you know anything about those?
FARGO wrote:Just built one, got the lower (a bushmaster) from a friend who got it at a gun show. It was brand new, 200 bucks with an A3 stock and LPK already installed. I ordered my upper from palmettostatearmory.com they do really nice work, their uppers are made from FN parts and are not too expensive, i paid 517 for a full upper. You can pick one up from them for about 300 bucks just depends on what you are looking for.

I built this one for the sole purpose of dragging it through the woods and not having to worry about scratching it up. Its extremely reliable, I would say this build is nicer than a few of my ARs that were in the $1500 to $2500 range. Its by no means a tack driver but hey, i can put MOA groups down range with open sights just fine.

Palmetto also has great prices on ammo, their PMC X-tac prices are always the best, free shipping included.
I think MOA groups are the definition of a tack driver aren't they? :) I've shot the rifle now and I can assure you, the gun is a helluva lot more accurate than I am. I need to find an outdoor range with a bench so I can really see what it does.

And yes, Palmetto has GREAT prices on ammo. I picked up a bunch of PMC ammo in all different flavors. But I didn't get free shipping. Free shipping must be a very special occurrence. Their shipping prices are VERY fair though.
Cwc wrote:Anyone have any thoughts on Windham Weaponry. Looks to be a mil spec at a good price.
Yeah, Classic Arms has one of their rifles. Apparently some of the original employees of Bushmaster (before it was sold) have started this new company and intend to build "the finest AR type rifles in the country." Take their bravado with a grain of sale, they are Bushmaster...

I would say to get the PSA long before you consider a Bushmaster/Windham, but feel free to research customer's experiences online. I'm sure there are plenty of people that have tried them out.

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by flyingirish04 » 30 Aug 2012, 11:41

But Bushmaster is named after a snake!!!! And it has a snake on the lower!!!
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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by jmz5 » 30 Aug 2012, 15:19

ShockedNKansas wrote:
jmz5 wrote:Get a hogue grip too, they are worth their weight in gold.
I am definitely looking into a new grip, because the standard one that came with the rifle has a little edge around the bottom of the trigger guard that really irritates my finger. I think I've heard of people grinding that edge off, but I'd rather just get a new grip.

I have heard tremendous things about the Magpul MOE grip. Do you know anything about those?
I still prefer the hogue over the magpul. They are a great company, but if it says magpul on it, it does not mean it is the best.
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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 30 Aug 2012, 15:27

jmz5 wrote:
ShockedNKansas wrote:
jmz5 wrote:Get a hogue grip too, they are worth their weight in gold.
I am definitely looking into a new grip, because the standard one that came with the rifle has a little edge around the bottom of the trigger guard that really irritates my finger. I think I've heard of people grinding that edge off, but I'd rather just get a new grip.

I have heard tremendous things about the Magpul MOE grip. Do you know anything about those?
I still prefer the hogue over the magpul. They are a great company, but if it says magpul on it, it does not mean it is the best.
I will try and get my hands on both of those and see how they fit. My hands are not small.

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by Cwc » 02 Sep 2012, 19:22

Picked up a Windham yesterday with a recommendation from a friend at the range. Put 500 rounds thru it today. Superb accuracy and flawless operation.

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 02 Sep 2012, 20:48

Cwc wrote:Picked up a Windham yesterday with a recommendation from a friend at the range. Put 500 rounds thru it today. Superb accuracy and flawless operation.
I'm glad it's working out for you. I LOVE my PSA though.. :)

If you need a nice value optic for your nice value AR, check out my other thread on optics. They have my red/green dot scope on sale for 119.99. It is usually 170-180 everywhere else. Crazy sale!

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by Cwc » 03 Sep 2012, 17:40

I'll check it out. Thanks

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 05 Sep 2012, 10:44

I got access to an INDOOR 100yd rifle range the other day so I decided to bring the AR and get her sighted in. I chose to sight in the red dot first, and then the irons later. I was using PMC Bronze .223 55gr FMJ-BT. My red dot is 4 MOA, so it isn't exactly a very tiny dot. It would cover the blacked out portion of my target which was about 6 inches across. The bullseye was white and about 1.5 inches (no way I was going to see that).

There wasn't much airflow in that range, and being left handed, I got a healthy blast of gasses right in my face after each shot. Because of this I wasn't too steady handed and was holding my breath a lot. I understand why people complain about stock/milspec AR triggers as mine is pretty stiff (especially compared to my FsN). I will be looking for a new trigger and grip soon.

My spotter saw me hit a couple bullseyes in a row, but for the most part, each 3-5 shot group was in the 2-5 MOA range. I don't think that's too bad considering the gun is new, the trigger is stiff, my red dot is large, I wasn't breathing, and I was high on primer chemicals... A buttery smooth trigger probably would have made a difference. A 2 MOA red dot would be nice as well, but this gun is more for self-defense, so the 4 MOA dot is better for me. I would suspect that if I am going to do much long distance rifling, I should use a properly magnified rifle scope. I think my red dot scope is 1x mag? It's basically nothing.

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 05 Sep 2012, 10:52

On sighting in your "irons".

Now that my red dot is accurate, I want to align my irons to it. I have a Magpul MBUS for the rear sight and a standard A2 sight on the front. The thing that is kind of weird to me, is the rear sight hole seems quite large when co-witnessing through my scope. Perhaps I can explain further. You know how the front sight post in a pistol aligns tightly between the rear sights? Well, with my AR irons, the front post can move a lot to the left and right and still be inside the rear sight circle. Of course the idea is to put the front post in the middle of the circle, but it seems like this setup allows for a lot of error -- especially at long distances. Since my red dot sits on top of my front post and has no parallax beyond 50 yards, this isn't a huge problem. But for people that use irons only, how do you shoot accurately with so much room for your front post to move around in the large, rear sight circle?

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by f3rr37 » 05 Sep 2012, 11:45

You learn to be very steady. You may want to find the military's M16 user manual, it will give you a good start on getting proper sight alignment.

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by flyingirish04 » 05 Sep 2012, 13:20

f3rr37 wrote:You learn to be very steady. You may want to find the military's M16 user manual, it will give you a good start on getting proper sight alignment.

Yep. :thumb:
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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by Mister Freeze » 05 Sep 2012, 14:55

blueorison wrote:I have seen firsthand both S&W and PSA **** up.

Shoot 3G long enough, and you will see almost every brand **** up.

The end.

DPMS, Colt, GM Transmission Division, Mattel, Harrington & Richardson, and FN; all gave up the ghost at one point or another and needed at least a mag reseat or at worst a brekdown and thorough cleaning. Nature of the beast and all that.

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by PainKillaX » 05 Sep 2012, 15:35

Also with the irons, I can't speak for the Magpuls specifically but with the sights on our A4s and also my Troy backups, there's a big hole AND a little hole. The big hole is for low light conditions and under 200 yards, the small hole is for past that.

And as previously said, practice good sight picture. Build a good shooting position using the fundamentals. Control your breathing. When we were taught proper sight alignment they said get your sights on target, close your eyes and take a breath, and when you opened your eyes again and you were still on target you had natural sight something...I dunno. I'm learning it all again tomorrow so maybe I'll be more help :p

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 06 Sep 2012, 17:06

f3rr37 wrote:You learn to be very steady. You may want to find the military's M16 user manual, it will give you a good start on getting proper sight alignment.
Thanks for the tip! That was a good read...

http://archive.org/stream/OperatorsManu ... 0/mode/2up

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 06 Sep 2012, 17:10

PainKillaX wrote:Also with the irons, I can't speak for the Magpuls specifically but with the sights on our A4s and also my Troy backups, there's a big hole AND a little hole. The big hole is for low light conditions and under 200 yards, the small hole is for past that.

And as previously said, practice good sight picture. Build a good shooting position using the fundamentals. Control your breathing. When we were taught proper sight alignment they said get your sights on target, close your eyes and take a breath, and when you opened your eyes again and you were still on target you had natural sight something...I dunno. I'm learning it all again tomorrow so maybe I'll be more help :p
Yep, I inspected my Magpul MBUS more closely and it is indeed has two little flaps pressed together. One hole is bigger than the other. If you want the big hole you flip the smaller front hole flap down. I had been using the sight in the smallest hole configuration. I didn't know that I could separate those two little flaps until your advice made me look. Thanks! :thumb:

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by blueorison » 06 Sep 2012, 18:00

FYI those holes in the flaps are called apertures. One is made for your close range shots (the larger), and the other is made for more precise, long range shots.
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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by Esteves » 06 Sep 2012, 18:18

Nonono.
The small one is for bunnies.
The big one is for zombies.
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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 06 Sep 2012, 19:14

blueorison wrote:FYI those holes in the flaps are called apertures. One is made for your close range shots (the larger), and the other is made for more precise, long range shots.
Like on a camera, gotcha!

The smaller "aperture" still seems too big. No problem though, because my lil' red dot is sitting right on top of the front post. I am zeroed and ready to rock and roll! :)

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by jgreenberg01 » 07 Sep 2012, 04:04

Esteves wrote:Nonono.
The small one is for bunnies.

The big one is for zombies.
:twss:
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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by fzr confused » 12 Sep 2012, 17:36

i just wanted to thank this thread for pointing out the 2 apertures that my RRA has and i never knew. i have always only used the smaller one, which i will more than likely continue to use...but its nice to know i have an option!

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 12 Sep 2012, 19:54

fzr confused wrote:i just wanted to thank this thread for pointing out the 2 apertures that my RRA has and i never knew. i have always only used the smaller one, which i will more than likely continue to use...but its nice to know i have an option!
You have to peel them apart too huh? On my MBUS, they look like they are one piece until you start to try and separate them. What looked like a seam was really a gap. :)

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by fzr confused » 12 Sep 2012, 20:17

on my RRA they are def 2 different pieces (never touch), you push/rotate the entire thing forward and the second pops up. you can clearly see it in this pic, i just never noticed it...DOH! lol

Image

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Rapier1772
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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by Rapier1772 » 12 Sep 2012, 20:57

The sights on the carry handle of my AR are made like that in the pic - 90º offset. But my magpul sights are basically mating pieces. http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG248/44" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They could easily be mistaken for a single sight.
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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by fzr confused » 12 Sep 2012, 21:02

after reading about the 2 apertures i did some searching and found those pics, so tonight when i went into the safe i looked for something similar. after not seeing them i was slightly disappointed and i was like "dang, i d....son of a....there they are!". i have never claimed to be the brightest or most observant lol. it is so obvious on mine now that i know they are there, i have no freaking clue how i have never noticed them...

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by f3rr37 » 12 Sep 2012, 21:03

This first came to my mind when I read that you guys didn't know... sorry. :laugh:

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by fzr confused » 12 Sep 2012, 21:04

ive been called worse! hahahaha

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 12 Sep 2012, 21:14

Rapier1772 wrote:The sights on the carry handle of my AR are made like that in the pic - 90º offset. But my magpul sights are basically mating pieces. http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG248/44" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They could easily be mistaken for a single sight.
Yep, that's the Magpul I have. Once I pulled them apart I was like, "sweet"!

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by ShockedNKansas » 12 Sep 2012, 21:15

f3rr37 wrote:This first came to my mind when I read that you guys didn't know... sorry. :laugh:

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The YouTube video of that guy is a must see! :)

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Re: I want an AR-15 for 600-700 bucks

Post by blueorison » 12 Sep 2012, 21:44

f3rr37 wrote:This first came to my mind when I read that you guys didn't know... sorry. :laugh:

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too busy rofling.
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