Last week my FN Five-Seven blew up causing severe damage to my left hand (I am right handed). There are 6-8 pieces of shrapnel deep in my thumb and palm area which severed the nerves to my thumb and a portion of my palm. Surgery is required in an attempt to repair the hand by harvesting tissue from my leg. Wish me luck.
The “explosion” occurred on the last round of a 30 round mag loaded with the factory 40gr v-max stuff. On this particular day I only had three loaded magazines (70 rounds total) with me for the Five-Seven but had several other handguns to shoot after the Five-Seven. I began with a 20 round mag loaded with hand loads, then a 20 round mag loaded with factory ammo and finished with the 30 round mag with factory ammo. It was the very last round of 5.7x28 in my immediate possession that ruined my day ……. and a whole lot more!!
I have fired (600-700 rounds) both factory and hand loads through the pistol with zero issues since purchasing new in 2/2011. There are reports of the Five-Seven firing out of battery (OOB) which appears to be the case here but I am no weapons forensics expert. I am not a novice to shooting, handguns or reloading and have 20+ years of extensive experience with shooting and reloading.
I have been completely straightforward with FNH (i.e. Browning) so will now wait and see how they respond.
I wish you luck in your recover and the full use of your hand. This is the second FiveseveN that I have heard of that KB. The first pertained to a double charged round. In your case you were using factory. Again, best wishes to your recovery.
No chance a hand load got loaded in with factory ammo? Sorry but good example of why i don't shoot reloads, have seen more than one firearm explode from a double charge. Wish you a speedy recovery and I wouldn't have told them about reloads..
FNH will likely back away quickly with that as their response because if it had been factory only ammo, you would own their a**
Holy crap! I hope things go as good as possible for you!
Do you have a lot number on the SS197?
Again I hope things go well for you.
Is there a piece of neck in the chamber in front of the blown out case?
fairchase wrote:Last week my FN Five-Seven blew up causing severe damage to my left hand (I am right handed). There are 6-8 pieces of shrapnel deep in my thumb and palm area which severed the nerves to my thumb and a portion of my palm. Surgery is required in an attempt to repair the hand by harvesting tissue from my leg. Wish me luck.
The “explosion” occurred on the last round of a 30 round mag loaded with the factory 40gr v-max stuff. On this particular day I only had three loaded magazines (70 rounds total) with me for the Five-Seven but had several other handguns to shoot after the Five-Seven. I began with a 20 round mag loaded with hand loads, then a 20 round mag loaded with factory ammo and finished with the 30 round mag with factory ammo. It was the very last round of 5.7x28 in my immediate possession that ruined my day ……. and a whole lot more!!
I have fired (600-700 rounds) both factory and hand loads through the pistol with zero issues since purchasing new in 2/2011. There are reports of the Five-Seven firing out of battery (OOB) which appears to be the case here but I am no weapons forensics expert. I am not a novice to shooting, handguns or reloading and have 20+ years of extensive experience with shooting and reloading.
I have been completely straightforward with FNH (i.e. Browning) so will now wait and see how they respond.
WOW, what a terrible thing to happen ,good luck with everything.please keep everyone informed of what happens next ,curious to see how fnh customer service handles this one!!!
I hope FN takes care of you. But still, that's inexcusable.
Be safe and a fast recovery to you, sir.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
Ouch. That does look like how I would picture an out of battery firing - but I have never seen one & am by no means an authority on the subject. I wish you a speedy recovery and good luck with FNH.
I was alone and a bit shookup when this happened and I didn't see the slide cover after the malfunction. I will attempt to locate it at the incident site.
toyslr wrote:No chance a hand load got loaded in with factory ammo? Sorry but good example of why i don't shoot reloads, have seen more than one firearm explode from a double charge. Wish you a speedy recovery and I wouldn't have told them about reloads..
FNH will likely back away quickly with that as their response because if it had been factory only ammo, you would own their a**
No. The 30 rd mag had been loaded for a couple months with SS197.
panzermk2 wrote:Holy crap! I hope things go as good as possible for you!
Do you have a lot number on the SS197?
Again I hope things go well for you.
Is there a piece of neck in the chamber in front of the blown out case?
fairchase wrote:Last week my FN Five-Seven blew up causing severe damage to my left hand (I am right handed). There are 6-8 pieces of shrapnel deep in my thumb and palm area which severed the nerves to my thumb and a portion of my palm. Surgery is required in an attempt to repair the hand by harvesting tissue from my leg. Wish me luck.
The “explosion” occurred on the last round of a 30 round mag loaded with the factory 40gr v-max stuff. On this particular day I only had three loaded magazines (70 rounds total) with me for the Five-Seven but had several other handguns to shoot after the Five-Seven. I began with a 20 round mag loaded with hand loads, then a 20 round mag loaded with factory ammo and finished with the 30 round mag with factory ammo. It was the very last round of 5.7x28 in my immediate possession that ruined my day ……. and a whole lot more!!
I have fired (600-700 rounds) both factory and hand loads through the pistol with zero issues since purchasing new in 2/2011. There are reports of the Five-Seven firing out of battery (OOB) which appears to be the case here but I am no weapons forensics expert. I am not a novice to shooting, handguns or reloading and have 20+ years of extensive experience with shooting and reloading.
I have been completely straightforward with FNH (i.e. Browning) so will now wait and see how they respond.
I really hope everything smooths out for you and you recover and heal at least 95% of your hand and nerves after surgery, good luck. This is just insane, makes me a bit uneasy seeing the blood all over the destroyed 57. Hope I'm safe with EA loads.
sentry36t wrote:I really hope everything smooths out for you and you recover and heal at least 95% of your hand and nerves after surgery, good luck. This is just insane, makes me a bit uneasy seeing the blood all over the destroyed 57. Hope I'm safe with EA loads.
sentry36t wrote:I really hope everything smooths out for you and you recover and heal at least 95% of your hand and nerves after surgery, good luck. This is just insane, makes me a bit uneasy seeing the blood all over the destroyed 57. Hope I'm safe with EA loads.
i was just thinking the same thing!!!!
I have no control over an FsN that decides to fire out of battery. Short of modifying the disconnector so it disengages the firing mechanism sooner.
I just really hope fn does a good job, or atleast makes things right for you, I'm not a huge brand fan but I really like fn products and do support them probably more then anything else. Really man I hope the best for you, and your hand, atleast it's your off hand
srt-4_jon wrote:i wouldnt consider changing the way the disconnector contacts comparable to building a gun from the ground up.
Easier said then done. I have looked at it along with the entire fire control group.
What more would you have to do than change the way the disconnector contacts the slide?
So much damn testing! When ever you change something in the chain of events there are unintended consequences. What if I take just a little to much off and the gun works great for the next 2k but fails to go bang at 20001K when a LEO needs his FsN to save his life?
I know the 'tards over at the other forum think I take what I do lightly but that is anything but the truth.
There are also many other things you have to try to take into consideration when you make such a modification. Every single time we do to the FsN when we perform accurzing has been individually tested on an FsN for thousands of rounds.
panzermk2 wrote:
So much damn testing! When ever you change something in the chain of events there are unintended consequences. What if I take just a little to much off and the gun works great for the next 2k but fails to go bang at 20001K when a LEO needs his FsN to save his life?
at 20,001,000 rounds, I am sure the department would be broke. :laugh:
I do get what you are saying though. Testing is very important. The way I am seeing it though, you would have to add material onto the slide so that the disconnector keeps the hammer from releasing sooner. Or add material to the disconnector (probably the easier route) to accomplish the same thing. If you have ever seen the Nanocrank for a 10/22, its kind of the same idea. A 10/22 can fire out of battery and that would quickly shut down the full auto like fire. The owner created another disconnector so that only after the bolt is fully closed can the hammer release.
Hope the surgery goes well fairchase. I think I was the first kaboom and there have been a handful of others... all of which were with reloads. I still have some brass in my left hand and lost a bit of feeling along the side of my index finger, but didn't have to undergo the knife.
fairchase wrote:Surgery is scheduled for Feb 27th to transplant nerve tissue from my leg in an attempt to repair the severed nerves to my thumb and outside palm area.
After examining the evidence, if no one ever outgefiggers what happened here,
GONRA suggests the POSSIBILITY of defective ammo.
“Cartridge Case Body Split”.
No matter HOW CAREFUL ammo factories are,
some certain tiny % of their ammo WILL have “Cartridge Case Body Splits” when shot.
One round in several million, maybe zillions…
Over the decades, have picked up several full power necked caliber range brass
by major US manufacturers with LENGTHY BODY SPLITS
that appeared to be “once fired”.
Assuming the shooter has reasonable eye protection,
“Cartridge Case Body Splits” shouldn’t present a Big KaBoom Problem
in bolt action rifles,
PROBABLY nothing much more in modern semiautos that
typically have extremely strong locked breech rotary bolt type mechanisms.
BUT - “Cartridge Case Body Splits” are REALLY SCARY when they occur
in any blowback or modified blowback mechanism
and EVEN WORSE with a HI PRESSURE cartridge as 5.7x28FN shooters deal with!
5.7x28FN shooters are “right on the edge”!!!
The 5.7x28FN cartridge case with carefully developed
(read specific coefficient of friction) cartridge case coatings
and obvious EXTRA STRONG axial strength (read thicker case wall) case strength cannot sustain any “Cartridge Case Body Split” without catastrophic results.
Look what happens when one handloads “thin wall” 5.7x28FN cases
derived from “movie blanks” or whatever!
Once in a zillion “Cartridge Case Body Splits”
probably will KaBoom our Five-Seven pistols.
This is the price we pay for a “retarded blowback” action that depends on the
CARTRIDGE CASE axial strength and case / chamber wall coefficient of friction
to function properly.
Believe me, FN designers verked it all out
ASSUMING no “Cartridge Case Body Splits”!!!
Smart 5.7x28FN reloaders use PRESSURE TESTED Scharch once fired
5.7x28FN brass to minimize “Cartridge Case Body Splits”.
Some day, in a Better World, there will be a LOCKED BREECH 5.7x28FN pistol
that will tolerate the extremely rare “Cartridge Case Body Split” problem
and a whole lotta other stuff...
Imagine what we could do with a locked breech action....
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
True, but after the first firing, cracks or weak spots could form as well as weak spots after resizing. The way it was worded, it seemed like he was saying Scarch brass was better vs. any other 1x fired brass.
GONRA apologizes for the PRESSURE TESTED Scharch confusion.
Just striving for “an economy of words” and it kinda backfired.
panzermk2 nailed it concisely.
Before selling fired brass to Scharch, U.S.& A. Government Guy
who originally fired the cartridge implicitly “PRESURE TESTED”
it for Red Blooded American Handloaders.
There may well be other sources for fired brass too.
From this forum, there seems to be every possible kinda crap brass out there
that is impossible to checkout except by Test Firing – then its TOO LATE!
Will be interested to see what you experts decide Truth is on this KaBoom!
Thinks its hilarious that the "other" forum has shut down the original post of the OP's there because of speculation and theories but most of those or being thrown around by the mods, to the point were one is saying he is getting rid of his....
I can't tell if I am looking at the back of a bullet or the shine from the side of the barrel in the pic that you took looking down the bore. Is there a bullet stuck in there?
Vortec MAX wrote:I can't tell if I am looking at the back of a bullet or the shine from the side of the barrel in the pic that you took looking down the bore. Is there a bullet stuck in there?
2ndAMVa wrote:I wonder if this is the first incident of this kind for the FN 5.7.
Anybody know of any similar incident in the past?
A FsN going KB or presumably firing out of battery (it looks that way to me but I am not qualified to judge). Definitely not the first KB. Why it went KB may be a first - won't know until FNH releases their findings.
sentry36t wrote:I really hope everything smooths out for you and you recover and heal at least 95% of your hand and nerves after surgery, good luck. This is just insane, makes me a bit uneasy seeing the blood all over the destroyed 57. Hope I'm safe with EA loads.
i was just thinking the same thing!!!!
I have no control over an FsN that decides to fire out of battery. Short of modifying the disconnector so it disengages the firing mechanism sooner.
True, I should have said I hope my 57 is safe, regardless of my ammo choice. With EA being more powerful I thought of the round, hopefully the problem is found. I know past problems were due to reloads so I wonder if his use of reloads weakened the integrity of the pistol which lead to it kb'ing with fn factory loads. IDK but regardless I still feel confident at the end of the day with my 57 and my ea t6's
Best of luck with the work keep us posted on how you're recovering, I also hope fn is doing their part. Yes it seems it made to full circle back to us. Hope the best and a speedy full recovery.
sentry36t wrote:I really hope everything smooths out for you and you recover and heal at least 95% of your hand and nerves after surgery, good luck. This is just insane, makes me a bit uneasy seeing the blood all over the destroyed 57. Hope I'm safe with EA loads.
i was just thinking the same thing!!!!
I have no control over an FsN that decides to fire out of battery. Short of modifying the disconnector so it disengages the firing mechanism sooner.
Mine fires out of battery (I should say, the hammer will drop if the trigger is pulled with the weapon about 1/8" or so out of battery). Are they not supposed to do that?
I would prefer it if mine did not fire out of battery at all.
Out of Battery is hard to describe on a blowback action fire. Watch my video on youtube. At .034" rearward the barrel has neligible movement.. Glocks will do the same thing, but out of battery on there's is when the barrel unlocks from the slide..
I read a lot of comments regarding the disconnector. It is my opinion that the disconnector is relatively unimportant in the big picture. The actual OOB firing prevention is the geometrically engineered relationship of the firing pin, slide and hammer. If the slide is retracted a few thousandth, the geometry is compromised and the hammer will strike the end of the slide/hammer block instead of the pin.
A question I have regarding this particular incident is, what would happen if a firing pin is stuck. This might happen with hot loads depositing primer brass in the pin hole. The other question, in the example of this thread, is the deformation of the slide structure possible with SS197 EVEN WITH an OOB detonation?
Surgery went well yesterday. Repaired the severed nerves and removed most of the schrapnel. It will be a few weeks until it is determined to what degree the surgery was successful.
Rapier1772 wrote:Most of the shrapnel? Will they be able to get the rest?
Good luck with the recovery - hope it goes quickly.
The surgeon would only recover the schrapnel that was easy to get to, the rest will remain. I am told it is very common to leave schrapnel in the body as it usually does no more harm to the area. Ask a wounded vet that experienced schrapnel.
I understand that much, but I've also seen where it causes more problems & they have to go back in later. I didn't know if there was plan for more after the swelling when down or what. Swelling is why my knee surgeries took so freaking long, they couldn't do it all at once.
2ndAMVa wrote:That must have been very painful!
Get well soon!
It was painful and is painful which is why I am awake at 3am typing one handed. I do expect a solid recovery and plan (hope) to be ready to chase MT spring bear.
Enough already. No more pictures. No more conjecture. The FN forum had the good taste to close these discussions. It is about time someone did the same here instead of showing us more details on blood and guts and opinions that do not matter in whatever civil case follows..
they didn't close it because of the picture! They closed it because all the debate about what caused it and then the mod's started arguing over it, being hte bunch of retards that they are!!
Well the only thing we have is opinions since FNH hasn't had the gun yet to make a determination. It will come down to whether or not there's something wrong with the lot of SS197SR he used, or it wasn't SS197SR. OOB doesn't seem to be the case here as discussed.
rosie wrote:Enough already. No more pictures. No more conjecture. The FN forum had the good taste to close these discussions. It is about time someone did the same here instead of showing us more details on blood and guts and opinions that do not matter in whatever civil case follows..
If this thread is upsetting to you, don't click it :ponder:
No "blood and guts" pix of the injury were publicly posted. If a benign surgical picture that was due to a shooting accident appears in front of you while clicking on a thread detailing a major malfunction of a firearm, look away.
The FN Forum mods closed the threads (3 of them) due to intense discussions by its members and with one member in particular leading the charge. That site is highly censored and that is all fine and dandy since the mods can run their site any way they see fit.
they didn't close it because of the picture! They closed it because all the debate about what caused it and then the mod's started arguing over it, being hte bunch of retards that they are!!
For every person who doesn't want to see the snap there is another person who wants to see it. Feel free to PM any more snaps you wish to share if ya like. If not, understood. This was a good snap.
I merely complained on the other forum, that I didn't need to see it 80 billion times in a row because people don't have common sense when quoting posts.
