News from SHOT: American Eagle loading for 5.7x28

[spyderco monkey]

Was at SHOT today, at the FN booth, where unsurprisingly few knew all that much about the 5.7x28. However, one helpful lady told me that ATK was developing a new plinking round for the FN.

So I walked over to ATK, and according to Jared Kuray, an engineer over there, they are developing a plinking round for the 5.7, which will be sold under the American Eagle brand.

He was fuzzy on specs, but off the top of his head he believes it will be a 40gr FMJ/ (TMJ he called it) at about 1650 fps- or so. He said it will most likely be a bit slower than the SS197, but has been more accurate in their testing.

Which, of course, is hardly exciting from a ballistics/SD standpoint. But if it results in a round that's in the $.30 range, I will be very pleased.

Anyone else have any more info? Anyone going to be at SHOT tomorrow?

[Rapier1772]

Good news - any additional ammo makers for this platform are welcome!

[blueorison]

Taking into account all good and bad points, don't expect the prices to be acceptable.

Especially those firearm owners who whine all the time about ammo costs and blame it on not going to go shooting when they hoard hundreds of rounds at home for some imaginary scenario.

[Lobo]

:agree:


but, but, they might break down the door.......
:lmao:

[Llagoud]

I'd like to hear about their brass..... :thumb:

[jgreenberg01]

Taking into account all good and bad points, don't expect the prices to be acceptable.

Especially those firearm owners who whine all the time about ammo costs and blame it on not going to go shooting when they hoard hundreds of rounds at home for some imaginary scenario.

Hey, I horde AND I shoot a lot... I try not to complain about the prices though. If There is a reasonable alternative that is cheaper than SS197, I'll definitely give it a try!




And the only scenario I imagine involves 3 O'clock and a couple of her hot friends!
I'm just sayin'...

[Llagoud]

Especially those firearm owners who whine all the time about ammo costs and blame it on not going to go shooting when they hoard hundreds of rounds at home for some imaginary scenario.

Said the grasshopper to the ant. :laugh: :p

[s-industries]

If There is a reasonable alternative that is cheaper than SS197, I'll definitely give it a try!

heck yeah. I wouldn't spend less money if ammo were cheaper, I'd just have more ammo to shoot!

[srt-4_jon]

I'd like to hear about their brass..... :thumb:

should be the same as current. pretty sure Federal's parent company is ATK.

[blueorison]

Especially those firearm owners who whine all the time about ammo costs and blame it on not going to go shooting when they hoard hundreds of rounds at home for some imaginary scenario.

Said the grasshopper to the ant. :laugh: :p

:lmao:

EA did send me some Accurized sub-quarter MOA rocks in case of danger.

[flyingirish04]

Especially those firearm owners who whine all the time about ammo costs and blame it on not going to go shooting when they hoard hundreds of rounds at home for some imaginary scenario.

Said the grasshopper to the ant. :laugh: :p

Exactly. :laugh:

[blueorison]

Especially those firearm owners who whine all the time about ammo costs and blame it on not going to go shooting when they hoard hundreds of rounds at home for some imaginary scenario.

Said the grasshopper to the ant. :laugh: :p

Exactly. :laugh:

I'm a grasshopper/ant hybrid. I have EA stored up in a for use mag and in a for emergencies mag. :cya:

[Cyberfly]

Hmm.
Sounds like the return of the SS196?

[nrv216]

I was at the local gun store and the salesperson said that they were talking to a Hornady rep who stated that they might start making a 5.7x28 round. Just a rumor but I hope its true!

nrv216

[Buffman]

that would probably be steel cased match ammo or whatever they're marketing at the time, and would cost $70.00 for 20 rounds :|

[nrv216]

that would probably be steel cased match ammo or whatever they're marketing at the time, and would cost $70.00 for 20 rounds :|

Hey, Hey, once Hornady makes your caliber you're set! Period!

nrv216

[flyingirish04]

Hornady is a bit better, but not that much better than win or norma brass these days. Nosler Custom is much better, and Lapua is the gold standard, no one touches them. Neither will make 5.7 in my estimations.

[srt-4_jon]

lapua is the gold standard for accuracy but what the 5.7x28 needs is volume sales. hornady has lapua and nosler custom beat in that regard. also, the 5.7x28 isnt an ultra precision cartridge, it would be a waste from either company

[flyingirish04]

Well I see what youa re saying, sorry. I meant for the reloaders in the thread, hornady is nothing special at all, and in fact WAY overpriced. In all honesty, having remington or winchester or federal pick up this cartridge would be the best situation. They are far and away the largest loaded ammo guys.

[srt-4_jon]

Some Hornady stuff is overpriced but the components arent bad at all. Amax compares well to Sierra Matchkings for a little less money.

[flyingirish04]

AMax doesn't compare with SMKs. No way, no how. They are severely less as a VLD. And I can usually get SMKs as cheap if not cheaper than the AMax's They used to be the cats pajamas though. IN any case, you are buying VLDs, there is ZERO reason to not load Berger or better custom bullets unless they don't have it in your caliber. For a while, the new Berger 300 Hybrids in 338 were crap, but the fixed the OTM design, and now I use that instead of the 300 SMKs.

And their brass isn't close to as good as Norma and it is usually priced about the same. Winchester's new brass is almost as good in my testing, so for the calibers I can't get Lapua in or Nosler Custom, I usually jump down to Winchester. The Hornady ain't worth it.

I wouldn't by any hornady component other than a few of their Varmint bullets and even then there are better options on the market in most calibers. Their 87 gr 6mm is pretty solid still though.

Now loaded ammo, that is another story. But I don't buy much loaded ammo these days. Just 223, 9mm, and 45 every once in a while if it is a good deal. I can reload everything else for way less, and more accuracy.

Hornady has a great brand identity. It is solid loaded ammo, and not bad components, but it is 2nd tier in my book. Plus the whole Z-Max zombi crap makes me want to puke.

[blueorison]

Amax doesn't compare with SMKs. No way, no how. They are severely less as a VLD. They used to be the cats pajamas though. IN any case, you are buying VLDs, there is ZERO reason to not load Berger or better custom bullets.

And their brass isn't close to as good as Norma and it is usually priced about the same. Winchester's new brass is almost as good in my testing, so for the calibers I can't get Lapua in or Nosler Custom, I usually jump down to Winchester. The Hornady ain't worth it.

I wouldn't by any hornady component other than a few of their Varmint bullets and even then there are better options on the market in most calibers. Their 87 gr 6mm is pretty solid still though.

Now loaded ammo, that is another story. But I don't buy much loaded ammo these days. Just 223, 9mm, and 45 every once in a while if it is a good deal. I can reload everything else for way less, and more accuracy.

Hornady has a great brand identity. It is solid loaded ammo, and not bad components, but it is 2nd tier in my book. Plus the whole Z-Max zombi crap makes me want to puke.

I whole-heartedly agree with Irish. Not even close. Shoot 6-800 yards and you'll realize why.

If Irish and I see face to face on this... :cya:

[srt-4_jon]

odd, everything ive read on snipershide said they had similar performance. i havent tested myself because i have a ton of SMKs but i did plan on testing a load once my supply dries up

[GONRA]

spyderco monkey sez:
ATK was developing a new plinking round for the FN.

GONRA sez: Make SURE it's not that Lead Free primer crap
unless yer gonna shoot it up immediately.
Make sure its THIS stuff:
* Usual arms companies: normal lead styphnate hydrate / tetrazene primers.
* Federal (ATK?): basic lead styphnate / tetrazene primers.

Above "lead primers" (read RWS 1920's era "sinoxid" patent)
have essentially infinite shelf life and are Just Fine.
YER NOT GONNA GET LEAD POISENING!
Have nice weekend......

[flyingirish04]

odd, everything ive read on snipershide said they had similar performance. i havent tested myself because i have a ton of SMKs but i did plan on testing a load once my supply dries up

I haven't read that, but I don't go on snipershide much. Too many pretenders. I am guessing they are telling you to shoot 308 168 gr AMax's? First, a 308 is not a naturally long range round, and even if you use it, the 175 SMKs are way better.

I know that AMax's for any kind of LR hunting are not generally used anymore. In fact, SMKs are getting dated as well. The new OTM Hybrids are where the LR projectile market is going IMO.

But people love their Hornady. They make Z-Max!

[nrv216]

But people love their Hornady. They make Z-Max!

:guns: :patriot: :monkey: :guns:



:p

[flyingirish04]

:laugh:

[srt-4_jon]

I shoot the 175gr smk because i get pulldowns for cheap. like i said, i have zero 1st hand knowledge on the amax, just what i have read

[flyingirish04]

Well, I will give you this on AMax, they make a decently made 50BMG precision projectile. I just don't shoot a 50BMG

[spyderco monkey]

Talked to Hornady yesterday, they denied the rumor, say they have no plans for a 5.7 loading.

I talked to Wolf, they may be interested if I can give them the # of 5.7 weapons in circulation and # of rounds sold each year. Anyone got any info on that?

[srt-4_jon]

i highly doubt it will be anywhere close to enough to get wolf to make it. it cant hurt but i wouldnt get any hopes up

[PursuitSS]

Hornady has a great brand identity. It is solid loaded ammo, and not bad components, but it is 2nd tier in my book. Plus the whole Z-Max zombi crap makes me want to puke.

Hornaday TAP .223 is THE standard for law enforcement! My duty AR is loaded with .223 TAP Urban.

[flyingirish04]

I have never heard that about TAP.

My best friend deals ammo to the military and LE. My cousin is part of Portland SERT as one of their snipers, and his day job is running R&D and procurement of new equipment for them.. A ton of my friends from the service are some type of LE now.

Ballistic tip ammo is HIGHLY frowned upon in most departments just from a PR perspective, not to mention the crap projectile the v-max is in comparison to other ammo out there at any kind of range. Their 75 gr I have heard are nice, but that isn't what is in the urban. And it is not as efficient of a bullet as a SMKS or the new BTHP from Nosler in the BH ammo.

I was under the impression most use some version of a 77 gr BTHP for a duty round. They also use HSM predetor rounds for a ton of there close range high ground support where shooting thru windows is a must.

Fly, you can weigh in from your perspective. EARs can too. I was always under the impression that TAP was a marketing gimmic to get people to buy TACTICAL ammo. Not that isn't good, but that most dept went with a more generic or more LEO only round like the ranger or HSMs line.

In any case, there is ZERO chance it is 'THE standard'. I am sure though that several LEOs use it and love it, like yourself.

The fact still remains that there are many higher quality choices out there. :thumb:

[blueorison]

In any case, there is ZERO chance it is 'THE standard'.

Irish, you are way out of line here. I completely disagree with you.

Don't you know that TAP is the standard of tacticool operators on their xbox's and mall ninjas everywhere?!

They are the true SME's. You just are jealous they have 100 more loaded mags than you sitting in their safes. :lmao:

:cya:

[flyingirish04]

You are right. I apologize.



I do own some TAP still. Not completely ANTI-HORNADY. Didn't want to give that impression. Not even ANTI-TAP. Have some of their buckshot, some of their 223, and 9mm and 45 as well. Shot a ton of it. I would stick with HSTs for pistols, and several other options for rifle. And their Buckshot, I believe even hornady went with another shell and wad now that is better.

[nrv216]

You are right. I apologize.



I do own some TAP still. Not completely ANTI-HORNADY. Didn't want to give that impression. Not even ANTI-TAP. Have some of their buckshot, some of their 223, and 9mm and 45 as well. Shot a ton of it. I would stick with HSTs for pistols, and several other options for rifle. And their Buckshot, I believe even hornady went with another shell and wad now that is better.

TAP used to be sooo much tacticooler (yes I said tacticooler) when it had the black casings. Everyone knows black is the most accurate color for casings. Now its got nickel casings so you can see how many rounds are in your gun! To think, I actually used to have to keep track of how many rounds I fired myself. If Hornady could somehow just combine z-max and tap I would never shoot anything else.

Obviously I am joking, but TAP does shoot really well out of my glock 21sf and, therefore, I usually have some on hand.

nrv216

[blueorison]

You are right. I apologize.



I do own some TAP still. Not completely ANTI-HORNADY. Didn't want to give that impression. Not even ANTI-TAP. Have some of their buckshot, some of their 223, and 9mm and 45 as well. Shot a ton of it. I would stick with HSTs for pistols, and several other options for rifle. And their Buckshot, I believe even hornady went with another shell and wad now that is better.

TAP used to be sooo much tacticooler (yes I said tacticooler) when it had the black casings. Everyone knows black is the most accurate color for casings. Now its got nickel casings so you can see how many rounds are in your gun! To think, I actually used to have to keep track of how many rounds I fired myself. If Hornady could somehow just combine z-max and tap I would never shoot anything else.

Obviously I am joking, but TAP does shoot really well out of my glock 21sf and, therefore, I usually have some on hand.

nrv216

You know, walmart FMJ also shoots really well out of my glock! WAIT, pretty much all 9mm shoots well out of a glock, nevermind. :lmao:

[Buffman]

60gr urban tap (vmax bullet) is the only tap round that comes close to min penetration. You'll only get 6-7" with 40gr tap , and that certainly isn't any standard. I believe a lot of standards are some of the barrier blind 62gr open tip match stuff

[PursuitSS]

You are right. I apologize.



I do own some TAP still. Not completely ANTI-HORNADY. Didn't want to give that impression. Not even ANTI-TAP. Have some of their buckshot, some of their 223, and 9mm and 45 as well. Shot a ton of it. I would stick with HSTs for pistols, and several other options for rifle. And their Buckshot, I believe even hornady went with another shell and wad now that is better.

TAP used to be sooo much tacticooler (yes I said tacticooler) when it had the black casings. Everyone knows black is the most accurate color for casings. Now its got nickel casings so you can see how many rounds are in your gun! To think, I actually used to have to keep track of how many rounds I fired myself. If Hornady could somehow just combine z-max and tap I would never shoot anything else.

Obviously I am joking, but TAP does shoot really well out of my glock 21sf and, therefore, I usually have some on hand.

nrv216

TAP is not "Black" or "Nickel", I think you are referring to Hornaday FPD. Not TAP.

[blueorison]

Hornady FPD is part of TAP.

http://www.hornady.com/store/TAP-FPD-handgun" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From Hornady's own mouth.

[PursuitSS]

Hornady FPD is part of TAP.

http://www.hornady.com/store/TAP-FPD-handgun" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From Hornady's own mouth.

Law Enforcement only TAP is not plated, and 40 gn TAP Urban is not sold to civilians.

[Buffman]

It certainly is ^^ Not directly from Hornady, but I have a few boxes, and it's quite available.