5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by **panzermk2** » 21 Jun 2011, 17:10

The 28 was the best, but we sell the others if you want to hand load them.

http://www.eliteammunition.net/catalog/ ... 334526.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.eliteammunition.net/catalog/ ... 830857.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Others are out of stock

Post by **Grantness** » 21 Jun 2011, 18:19

I always thought a 40gr PFP would be perfect...

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 23 Jun 2011, 09:23

35gr NTX's just came in. They look great

Profile looks just like a 40 Vmax

I will get measurements later with calipers, not near any of that right now...

Post by **Grantness** » 23 Jun 2011, 09:43

cool. I bet you'll get similar results to other 35gr LF bullets. Any word on acquiring 40gr LF bullets?

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 23 Jun 2011, 09:46

Grantness wrote:cool. I bet you'll get similar results to other 35gr LF bullets. Any word on acquiring 40gr LF bullets?

I think it will be a lot better - less bearing surface on these NTX's compared to the Nosler - but we will see. I will test this weekend maybe...

Here they are -

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 23 Jun 2011, 11:16

Added 35 gr NTX measurements to my earlier post...

Post by **Grantness** » 23 Jun 2011, 12:45

Those are perdy

Speaking of perdy, I saw a perdy Perdy, Damascus Double Barreled Shotty today. They said it was worth 12-14k

eVenom · Post by **eVenom** » 23 Jun 2011, 16:42

SWEET! now we need to see how they perform!!!

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 23 Jun 2011, 17:34

eVenom wrote:SWEET! now we need to see how they perform!!!

:thumb:

VeTTeMaNC486 · Post by **VeTTeMaNC486** » 24 Jun 2011, 12:33

Went in a sportsmans warehouse or something like that today and they had some of the 35gr NTX so I picked up a box. They also had a box of the nosler 40gr LFBT, I grabbed a box of them too. I will try to get the measurements posted at some point in the next couple days if anyone is interested. The bullets are flat base not boat tail like the vmax fyi.
On another note, went in a gunshop that had a brand new FsN adjustable sight model for $936 +tax. I almost bought it, almost

.

Post by **Grantness** » 24 Jun 2011, 12:56

Awesome. LOVE to get some data on those 40gr LFBT's if you've got a chrono... Preferably a known 40gr vmax/ballitstic tip load or work up to a max load to see how it compares or see what it can really do.

VeTTeMaNC486 · Post by **VeTTeMaNC486** » 24 Jun 2011, 13:37

Grantness wrote:Awesome. LOVE to get some data on those 40gr LFBT's if you've got a chrono... Preferably a known 40gr vmax/ballitstic tip load or work up to a max load to see how it compares or see what it can really do.

I do. I don't have too many appropriate 5.7 powders, I guess I can use blue dot and accurate #7. I got some vmaxs to I could load and do side by side with them, I am going to be very busy with school this week and I'm going outta town next weekend. Ill try to squeeze in some time though before I leave.

Post by **Grantness** » 24 Jun 2011, 14:07

Those are a couple of the best powders there are! Blue Dot would be great b/c there seems to be questions about old vs. new Acc#7. I usually like to use about 6.7-6.8gr (not quite a max load) for my 40gr Nosler Ballistic Tips. Might try 6.5 and work up if you get a chance...

VeTTeMaNC486 · Post by **VeTTeMaNC486** » 24 Jun 2011, 15:07

The data will be out of a weighted bolt ps90. But ill do a vmax load along with them. I don't have a way to bell the mouth, I guess I can just chamfer it a lot?

Post by **Grantness** » 24 Jun 2011, 15:38

may not be required... twist and push. Hopefully you can use of iFire's PS90 loads to compare it to. Do you have regular 40gr Vmax's or BTs? Then we could still see which performs better weighted bolt aside...

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 24 Jun 2011, 19:51

VeTTeMaNC486 wrote:The data will be out of a weighted bolt ps90. But ill do a vmax load along with them. I don't have a way to bell the mouth, I guess I can just chamfer it a lot?

Don't bell it, just give it a little extra chamfer than normal... They are a little more of a pain to load, but not that bad...

VeTTeMaNC486 wrote:
Grantness wrote:Awesome. LOVE to get some data on those 40gr LFBT's if you've got a chrono... Preferably a known 40gr vmax/ballitstic tip load or work up to a max load to see how it compares or see what it can really do.
I do. I don't have too many appropriate 5.7 powders, I guess I can use blue dot and accurate #7. I got some vmaxs to I could load and do side by side with them, I am going to be very busy with school this week and I'm going outta town next weekend. Ill try to squeeze in some time though before I leave.

I don't think the 40gr Nolser lead free will be that good, but we will see. The 35gr Nosler LF has a lot of bearing surface and I couldnt push it nearly as hard as the 40gr Vmax.

I think the 35gr NTX will be an excellent bullet, but I dont think it will quite match the 40gr Vmax in terms of Kinetic Energy. However, It still might prove to be possibly the second best commercial bullet choice out there next to the 40 Vmax in Kinetic Energy Potential. Also, since it is a little lighter, trajectory may be a little flatter. We will see - time will tell

VeTTeMaNC486 - Get some AutoComp - The stuff is flat out impressive in the PS90 - It is the best powder I have used in terms of reliability and consistency - and you can great speed without the fear of mag pops or jams, etc...

I just picked up my second PS90 - :guns: (theres no smilie with two carbines, so this will have to do...)

VeTTeMaNC486 · Post by **VeTTeMaNC486** » 24 Jun 2011, 20:51

K, just got back home.

The Nosler LF 40gr has ~ .300" of bearing surface the best I can tell. It is .784" +- .001" ( each varyed slightly, which is to be expected).

I'm too tired and its too late to take pictures right now.

I do not have extremely high hopes for the bullet to be honest but we will see.

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 24 Jun 2011, 21:45

VeTTeMaNC486 wrote:K, just got back home.

The Nosler LF 40gr has ~ .300" of bearing surface the best I can tell. It is .784" +- .001" ( each varyed slightly, which is to be expected).

The 35gr and 40gr Nosler Lead Free Bullets have the same bearing surface length i believe... its just their Ogive that varies in length and shape... I had measured ~ .320" - however .300" is really close to my measurement. Its somewhere around those two measurements..

The 35 NTX's bearing surface is only .225" long - thats a significant difference - nearly .100" - or approx 1/3 less friction...

VeTTeMaNC486 wrote:I do not have extremely high hopes for the bullet to be honest but we will see.

I think it will be a good bullet. But it wont achieve the same Kinetic Energy Potential...

I was able to pull around 525 ft lbs from the 35 gr nosler and around 550 ft lbs from the 40 gr Vmax in terms of POTENTIAL before the brass or primer gave way...

However - Absolute Potential and Functional Potential are two very different things.

In reality, if the bullet wont reliably feed 100% of the time, or if the mag pops up, etc.. the load is basically useless. Therefore, the Best load is one that has high kinetic energy and also functions 100% of the time without some type of failure. Since the PS90 is much more sensitive than the FsN, finding a load that balances function with Kinetic Energy is the ultimate goal.

The FsN is a lot less fussy. In the FsN, you can usually get the round with the highest possible Kinetic Energy to function reliably - but that is just not the case with the PS90...

VeTTeMaNC486 · Post by **VeTTeMaNC486** » 25 Jun 2011, 05:13

Grantness wrote:may not be required... twist and push. Hopefully you can use of iFire's PS90 loads to compare it to. Do you have regular 40gr Vmax's or BTs? Then we could still see which performs better weighted bolt aside...

Ea pulled (boat tail) they may not be the prettiest but dang are they cheap

VeTTeMaNC486 · Post by **VeTTeMaNC486** » 25 Jun 2011, 05:17

iFire wrote:
VeTTeMaNC486 wrote:K, just got back home.

The Nosler LF 40gr has ~ .300" of bearing surface the best I can tell. It is .784" +- .001" ( each varyed slightly, which is to be expected).
The 35gr and 40gr Nosler Lead Free Bullets have the same bearing surface length i believe... its just their Ogive that varies in length and shape... I had measured ~ .320" - however .300" is really close to my measurement. Its somewhere around those two measurements..

The 35 NTX's bearing surface is only .225" long - thats a significant difference - nearly .100" - or approx 1/3 less friction...

VeTTeMaNC486 wrote:I do not have extremely high hopes for the bullet to be honest but we will see.
I think it will be a good bullet. But it wont achieve the same Kinetic Energy Potential...

I was able to pull around 525 ft lbs from the 35 gr nosler and around 550 ft lbs from the 40 gr Vmax in terms of POTENTIAL before the brass or primer gave way...

However - Absolute Potential and Functional Potential are two very different things.

In reality, if the bullet wont reliably feed 100% of the time, or if the mag pops up, etc.. the load is basically useless. Therefore, the Best load is one that has high kinetic energy and also functions 100% of the time without some type of failure. Since the PS90 is much more sensitive than the FsN, finding a load that balances function with Kinetic Energy is the ultimate goal.

The FsN is a lot less fussy. In the FsN, you can usually get the round with the highest possible Kinetic Energy to function reliably - but that is just not the case with the PS90...

Your probably right. Every time I tryed measuring it I got a little different answer.
Your recommendation about autocomp, have you had any troubles with hs6?

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 25 Jun 2011, 05:58

VeTTeMaNC486 wrote:
Your probably right. Every time I tryed measuring it I got a little different answer.
Your recommendation about autocomp, have you had any troubles with hs6?

HS6 is excellent in the PS90 too, and has an excellent case fill percentage - my SD numbers were just a little bit higher than w/ AutoComp.

HS6, AutoComp and Longshot are among powders that I trust to get at least 2300 fps with a 40gr Vmax without some type of problem...

AA#7 and True Blue can get 2300+ for instance, but up over 2300 and I have seen mag pops and jams, etc...

Post by **Grantness** » 25 Jun 2011, 09:21

Overall, HS7 is STILL the best I know of thats in this country. Im gonna keep working on my contact at Alliant and see if maybe just maybe they could fill that gap left by HS7's removal from the market. Every load in every manual I say always beat out HS6. Autocomp is better than HS6 for sure.

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 25 Jun 2011, 12:01

Grantness wrote:Overall, HS7 is STILL the best I know of thats in this country. Im gonna keep working on my contact at Alliant and see if maybe just maybe they could fill that gap left by HS7's removal from the market. Every load in every manual I say always beat out HS6. Autocomp is better than HS6 for sure.

I havent tried HS7 in the PS90 - the problem is that the PS90 is soo picky - so I'm not sure if it will like it or not...

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 26 Jun 2011, 20:37

Here are some pics:

Just picked up a case prep assisstant...

Close up -

Comparison of various .224 bullets I have used in the 5.7

Hornady NTX loaded round -

The 35 NTX has nearly the same Ogive as the 40 Vmax - A die set for an OAL of 1.575" with a 40gr Vmax seated the 35 NTX at 1.584" - so Ogive is fairly close...

Post by **Grantness** » 26 Jun 2011, 21:18

Those case prep machines look nice, but they are SO expensive. That's why I went w/ the Trimpro, EA Trim Plate, and the cutting head w/ built in chamfer/deburrer (one step and ure done). Rigged an electric drill to run the trimmer. Although...since I didn't exactly know what I was doing at the time, I prob spent almost as much on my sliding electric drill rig as the RCBS electric trimming attachment :laugh:

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 26 Jun 2011, 21:34

Grantness wrote:Those case prep machines look nice, but they are SO expensive. That's why I went w/ the Trimpro, EA Trim Plate, and the cutting head w/ built in chamfer/deburrer (one step and ure done). Rigged an electric drill to run the trimmer. Although...since I didn't exactly know what I was doing at the time, I prob spent almost as much on my sliding electric drill rig as the RCBS electric trimming attachment :laugh:

I got the case prep for a really good price - I have a dealer who treats me well

I wanted the case prep because i get sick of charging the battery on my drill (I was just chucking in my attachments). It seems I am always running batches so hopefully it turns out to be a good tool to have!

Plus, I use an X Die for the 5.56 cases so I dont need to trim, just chamfer... So this should be a good choice I hope!

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 27 Jun 2011, 17:34

VeTTeMaNC486 -

HS6 seems to be an excellent powder to light the 35gr NTX in the PS90 - It did better than Longshot and AutoComp from a potential Kinetic Energy Standpoint in my initial tests. Of course there are other things to look for like reliability in all temperatures, consistently low SD's and Accuracy...

HS6 also pushed the 35gr NTX out of the FsN better than AutoComp and Longshot too.

Overall I like the bullet so far. You cant reach the same KE potential of the 40gr Vmax, but it does come pretty close. The 35 does shoot a little faster and would give a very flat trajectory, so that is a bonus to be considered.

Alright, back to the load bench for another test run :thumb:

VeTTeMaNC486 · Post by **VeTTeMaNC486** » 27 Jun 2011, 21:03

Awesome. :thumb:

I was hoping you would be able to get them coming out a little faster. Seems like the 40gr vmax is pretty tough to beat. Soon, I plan on loading up some high power loads with them and hs6 and testing them for accuracy and reliability. I like how the numbers look with hs6 under the vmax.

I am going to go to the range in the morning to sight in my .45-70, when I get back I will try to load up some nosler 40gr over some blue dot (and possibly Accurate #7, depends if I have enough time) and try to shoot them over the chrono before school tomorrow evening.

VeTTeMaNC486 · Post by **VeTTeMaNC486** » 28 Jun 2011, 10:59

Looks like were going to have to wait on the 40gr nosler lf results, had a self induced chronograph error. I believe that is the politically correct term for it. Crap. Oh well, this one lasted WAYYYYY longer than the last. One conclusion can be made; whitebox ss195 has NOTHING on the damage that a 40gr nosler does to a hard target.

I am going to start hanging a target up behind the chrony. That should help.

I did shoot all the way up to 6.8grs of blue dot behind the nosler and had no problems, however I am going to remove my lead tape, the action feels funny cycling with it. I will just wait for EA's bolt weight I guess before I mess with max power loads much.

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 29 Jun 2011, 05:47

VeTTeMaNC486 wrote:'had a self induced chronograph error. I believe that is the politically correct term for it.'

How are you suppose to help with data when you have 'self induced chronograph errors?' :p

Some more of my data - I will put in in my load threads later too...

PS90 - 35 gr. NTX

Dillon Progressive w/ AutoComp @ approx ~ 5.65grs | N=10 | CCI 400 | SS195 Brass

Avg - 2400 fps
SD - 9 fps

Dillon Progressive w/ HS6 @ ~ 6.55grs | N=10 | CCI 400 | SS195 Brass

Avg - 2429
SD - 21 fps

AutoComp has proven itself time and time again as being the most consistent powder in the PS90 with very low SD's.

HS6 works really well, and can achieve some of the highest speeds without mag pop ups or jams... However, recoil is 'stronger' than with most loads, likely due to the burn rate and corresponding speed/recoil associated with this powder type...
----

FsN - 35 gr. NTX

HS6 | N=6 | CCI 400 | SS195 Brass

Avg - 2033
SD - 20 fps

Good function...

VeTTeMaNC486 · Post by **VeTTeMaNC486** » 29 Jun 2011, 06:07

iFire wrote:
VeTTeMaNC486 wrote:'had a self induced chronograph error. I believe that is the politically correct term for it.'
How are you suppose to help with data when you have 'self induced chronograph errors?' :p

Some more of my data - I will put in in my load threads later too...

PS90 - 35 gr. NTX

AutoComp | N=10 | CCI 400 | SS195 Brass

Avg - 2400 fps
SD - 9 fps

HS6 | N=10 | CCI 400 | SS195 Brass

Avg - 2429
SD - 21 fps

AutoComp has proven itself time and time again as being the most consistent powder in the PS90 with very low SD's.

HS6 works really well, and can achieve some of the highest speeds without mag pop ups or jams... However, recoil is 'stronger' than with most loads, likely due to the burn rate and corresponding speed/recoil associated with this powder type...
----

FsN - 35 gr. NTX

HS6 | N=6 | CCI 400 | SS195 Brass

Avg - 2033
SD - 20 fps

Good function...

This is the second one this ps90 has caused to malfunction. I will get a replacement when I get back from vaction next week. From now on I will be putting a target or something up behind it lol.

ehryk · Post by **ehryk** » 30 Jun 2011, 05:23

remember, you don't need to touch the sensor with the bullet. Ya know those sky screens? I bet it sees the bullets way up there :p :lmao:

VeTTeMaNC486 · Post by **VeTTeMaNC486** » 30 Jun 2011, 08:37

ehryk wrote:remember, you don't need to touch the sensor with the bullet. Ya know those sky screens? I bet it sees the bullets way up there :p :lmao:

:facepalm:

I'll post a pic next week when I get back from vacation. Made a huge mess of it. I'm thinking about upgrading to a better one, but at the rate im going I may as well invest in multiple cheapys :laugh:

Post by **panzermk2** » 30 Jun 2011, 11:30

Remember the reactions by so many people when I stated the Chrono gets it all the time and we shoot ours fairly regularly. Everyone, most with out a chrono, stated how hard it would be to hit it and how could I who shoots so much hit one.

Well now you know how easy it is don't you?

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 30 Jun 2011, 12:10

ehryk wrote:Ya know those sky screens? I bet it sees the bullets way up there :p :lmao:

I put the dot of my delta point on my PS90 about a half inch under the skyscreens - that puts the bullet about dead center. Ive never shot a chrony :p

Post by **panzermk2** » 30 Jun 2011, 12:37

iFire wrote:Ive never shot a chrony :p

YET

Post by **Grantness** » 30 Jun 2011, 16:26

every heard of parallax? That's why chrono's aren't safe w/ many carbines/rifles....hehe

VeTTeMaNC486 · Post by **VeTTeMaNC486** » 30 Jun 2011, 16:33

panzermk2 wrote:Remember the reactions by so many people when I stated the Chrono gets it all the time and we shoot ours fairly regularly. Everyone, most with out a chrono, stated how hard it would be to hit it and how could I who shoots so much hit one.

Well now you know how easy it is don't you?

This is the second chrono that this rifle has claimed :laugh:

Aiming at the skyscreens with the ps90 is a pretty excellent idea.

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 30 Jun 2011, 17:19

VeTTeMaNC486 wrote:Aiming at the skyscreens with the ps90 is a pretty excellent idea.

Yup

Wollychop · Post by **Wollychop** » 30 Jun 2011, 17:32

Grantness wrote:every heard of parallax? That's why chrono's aren't safe w/ many carbines/rifles....hehe

I just have my wife stand on the opposite side and ensure the muzzle is properly aligned for the shot, then she ducks.

Just kidding.

eVenom · Post by **eVenom** » 30 Jun 2011, 19:43

Has anybody tried to make blanks? I know FN makes them but I was wondering if anybody even tried to make one on their own

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 30 Jun 2011, 19:56

Wollychop wrote:
Grantness wrote:every heard of parallax? That's why chrono's aren't safe w/ many carbines/rifles....hehe
I just have my wife stand on the opposite side and ensure the muzzle is properly aligned for the shot, then she ducks.

Just kidding.

:laugh:

Post by **panzermk2** » 30 Jun 2011, 20:43

eVenom wrote:Has anybody tried to make blanks? I know FN makes them but I was wondering if anybody even tried to make one on their own

You would need an adapter. Also although there would be no bullet involved there would be more labor so the blanks would cost almost as much as loaded ammo. I have looked into it.

Post by **Grantness** » 30 Jun 2011, 22:06

u can use wax or something similar... i heard u dont need any kind of permit to manufacture and sell them though...

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 01 Jul 2011, 18:45

Blanks would be a fun project to try... Although I dont think I would put it on my to do list ahead of making real rounds. Sending bullets out the barrel just seems like more fun than sending hot air :laugh:

Post by **Grantness** » 01 Jul 2011, 21:57

yep....ive just been in a funk cause i can't seem to beat any of the loads i've got!

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 02 Jul 2011, 05:47

Grantness wrote:yep....ive just been in a funk cause i can't seem to beat any of the loads i've got!

If you get an AR57 or PS90 that will completely change :laugh: - If you got the AR57 you would have to literally completely re-test everything to see what works well in your system with your particular buffer, etc... If you got a 90 then you would still have enough testing to do - just not as much, since I have done a lot with the 90 already

Post by **Esteves** » 02 Jul 2011, 06:53

iFire wrote:Blanks would be a fun project to try... Although I dont think I would put it on my to do list ahead of making real rounds. Sending bullets out the barrel just seems like more fun than sending hot air :laugh:

How about snake-shot?...

The 5.7x28 has some challenges here. Unlike 22LR or 22WMR that can/do fill as much of their straight-walled cases with as much shot as possible by using a wad far back in the case, the 5.7's bottleneck design calls for a different approach.

PainKillaX · Post by **PainKillaX** » 02 Jul 2011, 09:32

Esteves wrote:
iFire wrote:Blanks would be a fun project to try... Although I dont think I would put it on my to do list ahead of making real rounds. Sending bullets out the barrel just seems like more fun than sending hot air :laugh:
How about snake-shot?...

The 5.7x28 has some challenges here. Unlike 22LR or 22WMR that can/do fill as much of their straight-walled cases with as much shot as possible by using a wad far back in the case, the 5.7's bottleneck design calls for a different approach.

Could you make a .224 diameter paper cup type thingy filled with shot and set it in there?

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 02 Jul 2011, 09:36

PainKillaX wrote:
Esteves wrote:
iFire wrote:Blanks would be a fun project to try... Although I dont think I would put it on my to do list ahead of making real rounds. Sending bullets out the barrel just seems like more fun than sending hot air :laugh:
How about snake-shot?...

The 5.7x28 has some challenges here. Unlike 22LR or 22WMR that can/do fill as much of their straight-walled cases with as much shot as possible by using a wad far back in the case, the 5.7's bottleneck design calls for a different approach.
Could you make a .224 diameter paper cup type thingy filled with shot and set it in there?

Interesting thoughts... It would be fun to try, but a lot of work I would imagine, although I do have a few ideas :ponder:

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 02 Jul 2011, 09:37

Some 35gr NTX loads...

eVenom · Post by **eVenom** » 02 Jul 2011, 18:24

they look awsome!!

I have a question about NTX... you said that the energy of these is not as much as the 40g but when I look at your data it seems to b the other way around.

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 02 Jul 2011, 19:41

eVenom wrote:they look awsome!!

I have a question about NTX... you said that the energy of these is not as much as the 40g but when I look at your data it seems to b the other way around.

Thanks - they turned out pretty nice

About the energy - the 40g loads definitely have more energy potential, no doubt about it. Look at the 35gr NTX load with HS6 for instance and compare it to the 40gr Vmax with HS6 - I believe the most I could get out of the 35gr was approx 500 ft lbs while I was able to get approx 550+ ft lbs out of the 40gr.

Overall the 35gr is an excellent bullet and an excellent choice - I will be using them quite a bit...

The best load in the PS90 is 5.5grs of AutoComp with the 35gr NTX - amazingly consistent, plenty of energy without pushing any limits, and the smoothest recoil I have ever felt. If you play around shooting different powders you start to appreciate which ones 'feel' good and which ones don't...

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 02 Jul 2011, 21:11

Had some time to finally get some pics and a vid thrown together. Here are some of them - a few have already been posted elsewhere...

My new '5.7 dedicated' workbench upstairs - All other equipment and presses stay on the workbench in the basement...

A test batch of rounds ready for chronographing

Resized and sonic cleaned in Mean Green

A good size run of 40gr Vmax's

Another run of 34gr VNE's

A Demo of the Dillon loading 35gr NTX 5.7 rounds

Post by **panzermk2** » 02 Jul 2011, 21:15

Nice set up!

Post by **Grantness** » 03 Jul 2011, 00:31

:drool:

eVenom · Post by **eVenom** » 03 Jul 2011, 06:52

:clap: Some day!!! :thumb:

shooter · Post by **shooter** » 03 Jul 2011, 09:59

Nice! Way too neat and well organized...... :thumb:

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 04 Jul 2011, 13:57

Thanks guys

I have a cluttered reloading bench in the basement full of everything... So I decided to get a new secondary workbench to be used exclusively for 'finish work reloading' that would stay neat and clean and not get full of junk like normal workbenches do so quickly... I may have to post a few more pics when I can take them of the whole bench and its features and modifications...

ehryk · Post by **ehryk** » 05 Jul 2011, 17:27

regarding those NTX bullets, how is their terminal performance in gel? IIRC it has a compressed powder core, so I would think it would basicly behave like a Varment Grenade, eh?

What I wouldn't give for a 30 grain TSX hehehehehe

Post by **Grantness** » 06 Jul 2011, 08:49

40gr TSX would be cool... Or just a copy or something similar to the ~27gr ss195/198 bullet.

eVenom · Post by **eVenom** » 06 Jul 2011, 19:18

or maybe something even lighter like a <25gr

Tony S · Post by **Tony S** » 09 Jul 2011, 13:16

Gun is an AR57 with the standard 16" barrel. The powder is Blue Dot. Primers have mainly been CCI small rifle. Bullets have been 35, 40. and most recently, 52 gr SP Dogtowns from Midway. This is by no means a step-by-step guide. This is just what I've learned and done while reloading the round.

1. With an average charge of ~6 grains, I figure I've loaded up over a thousand rounds at this point. All of my brass has come from buying factory SS197 ammo. So far with some brass being reloaded at the 5X point, I have had no case problems.

I have noticed that I have a few loose primer pockets so I'll need to keep an eye on that.

2. My set-up is the cheapest Lee press and I use RCBS dies. I have yet to trim any case. I must say that the Lee quick-change collar thing is pretty good. Once you get it where you want it, you lock it down and the next time out just drop the whole shebang into the press. Fast.

3. When I first started the reloading and chrony'ing the loads it really didn't seem to make a lot of difference accuracy-wise how miuch powder I was using as long as the load was doing over ~2100 fps. All of these loads popped everything into a less than 1" hole at 50 yards. I chrony'd the SS197 factory 40 grain load right at this number.

4. I bought the 52 grain Dogtowns because they were really inexpensive and, according to the ballistics calculators, should have the perfect length for the 8.5 twist AR57 barrel. I loaded a few of these with 6 grains of blue Dot and my son shot a 0.8" 5 shot group at 100 yards. The gun has a bipod but no rear rest was used. This seems plenty good to me. I'll take the chrony next time out and post the results for this load. There was no indication of pressure or any other problems with this load. These are also flat-base bullets and that may or may not have anything to do with anything.

5. I've been cleaning the brass with whatever dishwashing detergent is in the house at the time. I soak for maybe 15 minutes then swirl then cases around by hand for maybe 10 minutes and let them dry overnite. I then clean the primer pocket and start loading. I have never crimped any load and have never had a failure to feed or a failure to cycle because of a pulled bullet with this gun.

6. I have two magazines for the gun. One is an ATI and it simply does not work. Now, this magazine is over two years old so maybe a newer one is OK. I also have a mag I bought directly from AR57 and it works flawlessly. As long as I load to an OAL of 1.57" to 1.59", everything feeds and cycles well. I have never applied any kind of a finish to the cases. When I was trying to load the 35 gr Hornady V-max's, they were just too short to work well. AT least in my gun, if the load length is too short the rounds jam up trying to make the turn in the magazine. These longer, lead-free 35 grain jobs look very interesting.

7. I have a load of brass that I neck/shoulder annealed at the 5x reload point. I'm keeping track of this brass in comparison to the 5x un-annealed stuff and it will be interesting to see if the annealing helps case life. Since it seems like everybody who shoots this caliber sees the dented cases and extreme shoulder movement (I'm no different), softening up that area seemed like a good idea.

8. I love shooting this gun!! It is accurate, soft-recoiling, and never fails to draw a crowd at the range. I'll post the chrony results with the 52 grain Dogtowns. I calculated that I was loading these for right around 13 cents a shot. Using the Hornady's and the Sierra's had the cost above this.

Again, this isn't being presented as some end-all and be-all loading guide, Since the header spells out the random reloading nature of things, this seemed like the best place to post this what I've seen. Maybe it will help somebody starting out.

Tony S.

VeTTeMaNC486 · Post by **VeTTeMaNC486** » 09 Jul 2011, 22:32

Tony S wrote:Gun is an AR57 with the standard 16" barrel. The powder is Blue Dot. Primers have mainly been CCI small rifle. Bullets have been 35, 40. and most recently, 52 gr SP Dogtowns from Midway. This is by no means a step-by-step guide. This is just what I've learned and done while reloading the round.

1. With an average charge of ~6 grains, I figure I've loaded up over a thousand rounds at this point. All of my brass has come from buying factory SS197 ammo. So far with some brass being reloaded at the 5X point, I have had no case problems.

I have noticed that I have a few loose primer pockets so I'll need to keep an eye on that.

2. My set-up is the cheapest Lee press and I use RCBS dies. I have yet to trim any case. I must say that the Lee quick-change collar thing is pretty good. Once you get it where you want it, you lock it down and the next time out just drop the whole shebang into the press. Fast.

3. When I first started the reloading and chrony'ing the loads it really didn't seem to make a lot of difference accuracy-wise how miuch powder I was using as long as the load was doing over ~2100 fps. All of these loads popped everything into a less than 1" hole at 50 yards. I chrony'd the SS197 factory 40 grain load right at this number.

4. I bought the 52 grain Dogtowns because they were really inexpensive and, according to the ballistics calculators, should have the perfect length for the 8.5 twist AR57 barrel. I loaded a few of these with 6 grains of blue Dot and my son shot a 0.8" 5 shot group at 100 yards. The gun has a bipod but no rear rest was used. This seems plenty good to me. I'll take the chrony next time out and post the results for this load. There was no indication of pressure or any other problems with this load. These are also flat-base bullets and that may or may not have anything to do with anything.

5. I've been cleaning the brass with whatever dishwashing detergent is in the house at the time. I soak for maybe 15 minutes then swirl then cases around by hand for maybe 10 minutes and let them dry overnite. I then clean the primer pocket and start loading. I have never crimped any load and have never had a failure to feed or a failure to cycle because of a pulled bullet with this gun.

6. I have two magazines for the gun. One is an ATI and it simply does not work. Now, this magazine is over two years old so maybe a newer one is OK. I also have a mag I bought directly from AR57 and it works flawlessly. As long as I load to an OAL of 1.57" to 1.59", everything feeds and cycles well. I have never applied any kind of a finish to the cases. When I was trying to load the 35 gr Hornady V-max's, they were just too short to work well. AT least in my gun, if the load length is too short the rounds jam up trying to make the turn in the magazine. These longer, lead-free 35 grain jobs look very interesting.

7. I have a load of brass that I neck/shoulder annealed at the 5x reload point. I'm keeping track of this brass in comparison to the 5x un-annealed stuff and it will be interesting to see if the annealing helps case life. Since it seems like everybody who shoots this caliber sees the dented cases and extreme shoulder movement (I'm no different), softening up that area seemed like a good idea.

8. I love shooting this gun!! It is accurate, soft-recoiling, and never fails to draw a crowd at the range. I'll post the chrony results with the 52 grain Dogtowns. I calculated that I was loading these for right around 13 cents a shot. Using the Hornady's and the Sierra's had the cost above this.

Again, this isn't being presented as some end-all and be-all loading guide, Since the header spells out the random reloading nature of things, this seemed like the best place to post this what I've seen. Maybe it will help somebody starting out.

Tony S.

Awesome. I'd like to know how fast those 52grs are going. I was having mag pop problems with 6gr of blue dot and 55gr fmjs. IIRC I was getting close to 2k fps. If you are looking for a cheap way to reload, I would recommend looking into buying some pulled ss197 40gr vmax from EA. 15 bucks for 250 bullets! When I ordered my mag springs I just threw in 1k because they were so cheap. :thumb:

On a different note, has anyone with an AR57, that reloads or shoots EA, had issues with the magazine popping with full power loads?

Post by **Grantness** » 13 Jul 2011, 13:02

Just checked out the latest article of Handloader magazine and they had a nice article on all the Accurate powders. What vexes me is they never even mention Acc#7, #5, or even #9's possible use in 5.7x28 despite the fact that Accurate/WesternPowders has published loads as well as the Lyman 49th manual... He went to great lengths describing how versatile the pistol and even shotgun powders were, but apparently either didn't do his research or felt it wasn't worth mentioning.

There was also an additional article on No. 9 specifically that was somewhat interesting.... describing how and when they switched over to the new manufacturer in FL. Unfortunately, the article was a bit iffy on whether he actually received the NEW No. 9 because there was a label on the canister marked 'made in Belgium'. Western Powders assured him that those were surplus labels and he had indeed received the newer powder. He noted no differences between the look/smell & velocities between old and (ostensibly) new No. 9. I dunno....seems strange to me, but this guy is well respected and I have trouble believing Western Powders would lie to a man like that.

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 13 Jul 2011, 14:53

Grantness wrote:There was also an additional article on No. 9 specifically that was somewhat interesting.... describing how and when they switched over to the new manufacturer in FL. Unfortunately, the article was a bit iffy on whether he actually received the NEW No. 9 because there was a label on the canister marked 'made in Belgium'. Western Powders assured him that those were surplus labels and he had indeed received the newer powder. He noted no differences between the look/smell & velocities between old and (ostensibly) new No. 9. I dunno....seems strange to me, but this guy is well respected and I have trouble believing Western Powders would lie to a man like that.

:ponder:

The difference between old #9 and new #9 might not be that large when used in the 5.7x28 - SInce #9 is slow to begin with (in relation to this caliber) there might not be large differences seen when testing, especially in the pistol. However, the difference in the A#7 change I recorded was around 100 fps with equal charge and bullets - and the difference is noticeable in the visible 'look' of the powders.

Post by **Grantness** » 13 Jul 2011, 15:44

Yep, that's about the difference i've seen between their load data and what my new No. 7 gets.

ehryk · Post by **ehryk** » 20 Jul 2011, 02:13

iFire, couple o questions for ya here;

have you tried VV 3N38 for the FsN? I was able to get to 7.8 grains max for the pistol. At 8.0 I had a case rupture and decided that was far enough lol With the PS90, pretty much any charge using 3N38 will pop the mag, so it's out for me. Shame, it's a fast powder.

What are the chances of making a list of powders that are unsuitable and/or dangerous so no one unknowingly tries them?

As for blending powders... I have reloaded for over 30 years. I read up on it some, but just never had the balls to even considder doing it lol With your background and education, it's not so bad, but still, I'll give ya the brass balls award here lol

ddouglas · Post by **ddouglas** » 20 Jul 2011, 07:57

I have been following the 5.7 hand loading threads for a couple of years now. I've been hand loading other calibers for a bit longer than I have the 5.7. It is of interest to me to know "why" the 5.7 round is continually pushed to find a maximum load--meaning one that gives maximum speed but not yet damaging the case or popping a primer. None of the other hand loading forums that I read--those dealing with everything from .380 Auto to 45-70 black powder seem fixated on achieving "the max". The emphasis in the other forums is to find the most accurate load, not the fastest speed. New bullets and new powders are evaluated to find the most accurate combination in the owner's firearms. Depending on the applicability (hunting, target, long-distance target, etc.) bullets are also evaluated their penetration and effectiveness. But not singularly focussed on speed for speed's sake. So what is there in the minds of the 5.7 guys (and gals) that cause the focus to be single-minded on speed? Surely finding a round that is the "fastest", while it might seem "good" for a few dozen shots, cannot be beneficial to the long-term mechanical health of the firearm. The abuse absorbed by the bolt, action, barrel, etc. with these rounds will eventually take its toll on the longevity of the gun. And it is of little value if the bullet doesn't go where it's aimed. Yes? No?

To illustrate a rational approach towards loading the 5.7, EA's emphasis seems to be geared to a round that meets a specific need or requirement. That's a good thing. EA doesn't fixate on speed. But most of what I read here is just more bang. Isn't the quest for "more speed" in the absence of more meaningful goals misplaced?

Shouldn't the focus be on accuracy (and some measured effectiveness)--which is what most of us care about for most situations?

Post by **panzermk2** » 20 Jul 2011, 08:56

I know the answer to this. Basically 2 reasons

1) Most guys get into the 5.7x28 because they are 10mm fans. That is how I got into it in a round about way through another PDW round created about the same time as the 5.7. It was the BOZ. 10mm necked down to .223. It never went anywhere other then custom handguns it does not exist really.

10mm= Speed Freaks

This is why so many forum members have 10mm handguns also.

2) A very large percentage of 5.7 owners are engineers of some sort, heck we even have a few rocket scientists as members. Engineers like to explore and push limits of any given design even a light switch they just can't keep from fiddling with. Basically engineers love to re-engineer.

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 20 Jul 2011, 13:34

The above + a few other things...

I really enjoy the PS90 platform - but it only comes in one caliber 5.7x28... If it came in other calibers one could simply move up to the largest caliber they wanted/needed ( ie AR's come in a whole bunch of calibers so you can pick the size that is right for your particular application)

Being stuck with the 5.7x28 in the PS90, it becomes the desire of many to push it to see just what it can do and the variety of applications it can be used for. For instance, I personally wouldnt want to use ss197 for deer, even though it would technically work with the proper shot placement. However, Max Hand Loads or EA's protector for instance have a substantially higher KE potential (in some cases almost 40-50% more) which makes it MUCH better (even though it may not be 'ideal')...

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 20 Jul 2011, 13:52

ehryk wrote:iFire, couple o questions for ya here;

What are the chances of making a list of powders that are unsuitable and/or dangerous so no one unknowingly tries them?

Yeah I could work on something like a 'bad" powder list - I would have to put some thought into what that would look like since some powders that are 'bad' for full power loads actually work well with subsonics...

As for the mixing powders - I wont share data but yeah it can work really well, I have developed some really good loads, both in Speed AND in Low Standard Deviations. But it is definitely tricky and a recipe for disaster if done improperly - Thanks for the 'Brass Balls' award though :laugh:

kos1966 · Post by **kos1966** » 30 Jul 2011, 14:01

Has anyone tried titegroup to reload with I am reloading 40 gr nosler ct and have been using accurate 5 it has been doing well but don't like it for my other weapons and want to try to stick with hogdon powder because it is easy to get in my area. I also use clays for some of my bullets but figured it is not the best for the 5.7 I have a ps90 so any help or input appreciated.

MikeSantor · Post by **MikeSantor** » 02 Aug 2011, 19:47

Finally starting to put my shopping list together to start reloading. This could get interesting...

VeTTeMaNC486 · Post by **VeTTeMaNC486** » 03 Aug 2011, 22:15

kos1966 wrote:Has anyone tried titegroup to reload with I am reloading 40 gr nosler ct and have been using accurate 5 it has been doing well but don't like it for my other weapons and want to try to stick with hogdon powder because it is easy to get in my area. I also use clays for some of my bullets but figured it is not the best for the 5.7 I have a ps90 so any help or input appreciated.

I do not have any experience with Acc #5; but if you want to use hodgdon powder, I would recommend getting some HS6. If you load 9mm its a good powder for it as well. I use it in 9mm, .40sw, 5.7, and .45 (not ideal for 45 but it is what I have.).

iFire · Post by **iFire** » 04 Aug 2011, 19:05

kos1966 wrote:Has anyone tried titegroup to reload with I am reloading 40 gr nosler ct and have been using accurate 5 it has been doing well but don't like it for my other weapons and want to try to stick with hogdon powder because it is easy to get in my area. I also use clays for some of my bullets but figured it is not the best for the 5.7 I have a ps90 so any help or input appreciated.

HS6 works very well, and is a very good functioning crossover powder between the FsN and PS90. Try 6.2 grs with your 40 grain bullets. 6.2 grains should give you around ~ 1800 fps from the FsN and ~ 2200 from the PS90.

MikeSantor · Post by **MikeSantor** » 07 Aug 2011, 18:32

Ok first stupid reloading question. I have spent the last hour googling and cant fine the answer to this. So you have brass from say SS197. It was obviously the right length before you shot it. So why does the brass OAL need to be resized or messed with at all AFTER it has been shot? Sorry for the dumb question but every website I have read about re sizing brass all talks about brass for one size of ammunition being re sized for a different caliber.

One other thing. Is there any reason to NOT clean your brass if you dont have intentions of loading it for say 3-6 months? Im steady building my loading bench and dont plan on having everything till the end of the year. Figured I would get my brass all cleaned while im buying everything I need. Will be doing 5.7 and 9mm to start off. I will be cleaning and polishing the 9mm and just cleaning the 5.7.

Bare with me guys. Im reading as much as I can get my hands on...

Post by **f3rr37** » 07 Aug 2011, 19:18

During the extraction process after a round has been fired, the brass softens and expands to the chamber dimensions. Due to friction, brass sticks to the chamber and when pulled out it stretches ever so slightly. You can see the result of this by just looking at the shoulder of a fired round compared to an unfired round, the neck is pushed forward during the extraction.

As for cleaning, doesn't really matter as long as it is cleaned prior to reloading it. Clean brass is happy brass.

MikeSantor · Post by **MikeSantor** » 07 Aug 2011, 19:21

Thanks man. I shell start cleaning my brass!

Post by **f3rr37** » 07 Aug 2011, 20:10

MikeSantor wrote:Thanks man. I shell start cleaning my brass!

Welcome.

I'm cleaning some .308WIN brass right now in my ultrasonic cleaner.

VeTTeMaNC486 · Post by **VeTTeMaNC486** » 07 Aug 2011, 21:20

f3rr37 wrote:
MikeSantor wrote:Thanks man. I shell start cleaning my brass!
Welcome. I'm cleaning some .308WIN brass right now in my ultrasonic cleaner.

What are you using in it? I am using 1:1 ratio water/vinegar and I am not entirely pleased with the results. (they are clean but are not very shiny after a day or two.) They stay decently shiny if I let the dry on their own, but usually i toss them in the even for a bit because I want to load them not wait on them to dry.

MikeSantor · Post by **MikeSantor** » 09 Aug 2011, 19:03

Dumb Question #2 (you guys will get sick of me soon enough)

I can not seem to find the answer too this either. Do you ALWAYS have to trim, chamfer, and deburr brass? Im assuming the answer is yes. If the case stretches during ejection im assuming they all do this. So basically you would not sit and check the length of each brass before you load it. You just run all of them through the trimmer?

So if im right thus fur, is there any real scientific way of trimming this in regards to how much you are taking off? What I mean by this is I have seen a bunch of videos of people trimming with the TrimPro and drill and they are not measuring anything. They hit it with the drill for a second and go on to the next one. Again, is this just going under the assumption that they all need just a hair taken off so you zip it with the trimmer for a second and its good to go?

Post by **Rapier1772** » 09 Aug 2011, 19:48

For consistency's sake you should always trim however, if you're just loading plinkers where you are not worried about the data and not really worried about accuracy (it will still be close) then there is a little leeway as long as it fully chambers the round. Anytime you trim, you need to chamfer & deburr.

Case trimmers have stop rings on them. On your first shell, measure it & run the trimmer up to the shell & set the ring (this is all in the trimmer's owner's manual), back off the ring a tad, lock it again & trim a bit. Repeat until you reach the correct length. Once there, the stop ring will make it so you trim to the same length on subsequent shells. It shouldn't move but you might wanna still check them occasionally

Its not that they are just hitting it for a second & that is "magically" the right length. They are trimming down to the length set on the stop ring.

MikeSantor · Post by **MikeSantor** » 10 Aug 2011, 02:22

Anyhow a stop ring. I should have thought about that... thanks for the info!

Post by **f3rr37** » 10 Aug 2011, 08:53

VeTTeMaNC486 wrote:
f3rr37 wrote:
MikeSantor wrote:Thanks man. I shell start cleaning my brass!
Welcome. I'm cleaning some .308WIN brass right now in my ultrasonic cleaner.
What are you using in it? I am using 1:1 ratio water/vinegar and I am not entirely pleased with the results. (they are clean but are not very shiny after a day or two.) They stay decently shiny if I let the dry on their own, but usually i toss them in the even for a bit because I want to load them not wait on them to dry.

For non-5.7x28 brass, I also use a 1:1 water/vinegar cleaning solution, I do this just to clean out all of the crap from the brass. I usually run it through a total of 5 cycles (8min each):
3 w/ cleaning solution
1 with a baking soda solution to neutralize the vinegar
1 with water to make sure everything is rinsed.

This gets the brass pretty clean, not sparkling, but clean enough for me. Then I'll trim/chamfer/debur and also run some steel wool on the outside and then they really shine nicely.

MikeSantor · Post by **MikeSantor** » 10 Aug 2011, 10:42

Ok, Got brass now its time to order the first round of actual equipment. Picking up the Frankford Arsenal Quick-N-EZ Case Tumbler, some simple green, the RCBS Trim Pro with plate from ea and the spear loading manual.

In regards to cleaning, I know the Wiki mentioned the ultrasonic cleaner. HF has a 2.5 liter for 75 bucks. Do you use this in conjunction with something else like the arsenal tumbler or is it more less one or the other? If it is one or the other, Is there a general consensus on using something like the EZ tumbler compared to the ultrasonic cleaner? I have no problem buying both if it will be worth it.

Am I missing anything in the case prep stage? After this purchase I should have everything to get my cases ready to roll in the dillion 550b...

Post by **f3rr37** » 10 Aug 2011, 10:56

MikeSantor wrote:Ok, Got brass now its time to order the first round of actual equipment. Picking up the Frankford Arsenal Quick-N-EZ Case Tumbler, some simple green, the RCBS Trim Pro which I am going to rig up to a drill and the spear loading manual.

In regards to cleaning, I know the Wiki mentioned the ultrasonic cleaner. HF has a 2.5 liter for 75 bucks. Do you use this in conjunction with something else like the arsenal tumbler or is it more less one or the other? If it is one or the other, Is there a general consensus on using something like the EZ tumbler compared to the ultrasonic cleaner? I have no problem buying both if it will be worth it.

Am I missing anything in the case prep stage? After this purchase I should have everything to get my cases ready to roll in the dillion 550b...

I just use the ultrasonic cleaner. My experience with the tumblers is that they're noisy, and I'm living in an apartment, so it is kind of out of the question. The insides of my cases are still a bit dirty, but I'm still shooting sub MOA out of my Rem700 .308 (completely stock) @400-525 yards, so it doesn't bother me.

One thing about tumblers is that the media tends to leave a fine dust on the brass, and when you go to size the brass (this depends on if you size before or after cleaning) with lube, it makes a mess and the dies need to be cleaned way more often... that's just my experience anyway.

Here is how I used to process the brass I put in a tumbler (used my dad's):
Deprime
Tumble
Clean and remove the tumbling media from the flash holes
Size
Trim/chamfer/debur and polish with steel wool
Prime
Measure/throw charges
Seat bullet

Here is how I do it now with my ultrasonic cleaner:
Deprime/Size
Ultrasonic clean
Trim/chamfer/debur and polish with steel wool
Prime
Measure/throw charges
Seat bullet

Post by **Rapier1772** » 10 Aug 2011, 11:11

Are you getting the tumbler for your other brass? With the 5.7 they are using the ultrasonic instead a tumbler to retain the lacquer coating. Or, at least, that is how I understood it

For trimming - did you get a 3-way cutter? It does the deburring/chamfering for you as you are trimming (although mine has been grabbing onto the brass as it is turning recently :wall:)

I would also recommend you get a collet type bullet puller with a .22 caliber collet. If you load something too hot then you can pull the bullets without really damaging them or losing the powder.

MikeSantor · Post by **MikeSantor** » 10 Aug 2011, 11:11

Im assuming you dont HAVE to deprime before you clean? I say this because the Dillon 550b actually deprimes. So with the Dillon 550b the process would be:

Clean with tumbler or ultrasonic cleaner.
Lube
Trim/chamfer/debur

Then the dillon does the rest. Resizes/deprimes, etc etc.

Am I missing anything?

I also forgot im going to pick up that ABCs of reloading book everyone talks about. So im sure that will explain a lot.

Post by **Grantness** » 10 Aug 2011, 11:17

No you don't have to deprime before you clean (if your size die is what you deprime with, the die will get dirty or possibly dent the cases if you dont clean), but as was suggested earlier sometimes its nice to clean AFTER depriming as well to wash off case lube and help clean out the primer pocket some.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 10 Aug 2011, 11:19

Lube & deprime first then clean. You don't want that lube inside your cases when you drop the powder in. Also, this way it cleans your primer pockets as well. Plus, still having that lube on your casings is going gunk up you gun & chamber. The hassle with using the 550 on this round is why I use a single stage - well, its a hassle for me

MikeSantor · Post by **MikeSantor** » 10 Aug 2011, 11:27

Rapier1772 wrote:Are you getting the tumbler for your other brass? With the 5.7 they are using the ultrasonic instead a tumbler to retain the lacquer coating. Or, at least, that is how I understood it

For trimming - did you get a 3-way cutter? It does the deburring/chamfering for you as you are trimming (although mine has been grabbing onto the brass as it is turning recently :wall:)

I would also recommend you get a collet type bullet puller with a .22 caliber collet. If you load something too hot then you can pull the bullets without really damaging them or losing the powder.

I will be buying that 3 way cutter. And yes, the tumbler was going to be used for other brass as well.

Grantness wrote:No you don't have to deprime before you clean (if your size die is what you deprime with, the die will get dirty or possibly dent the cases if you dont clean), but as was suggested earlier sometimes its nice to clean AFTER depriming as well to wash off case lube and help clean out the primer pocket some.

Got it. I just say the Dillon talking about depriming at one of the stations of the press so I thought it was always done at this step (this step being the actual loading process.)

Rapier1772 wrote:Lube & deprime first then clean. You don't want that lube inside your cases when you drop the powder in. Also, this way it cleans your primer pockets as well. Plus, still having that lube on your casings is going gunk up you gun & chamber. The hassle with using the 550 on this round is why I use a single stage - well, its a hassle for me

So to revise,

deprime
Lube
cut/debur/chamfer
clean

Then into the dillon it goes.

Am I getting it right? Its hard to visualize all this in your head when you dont have any of the stuff yet and have never loaded anything in your life...

Post by **Rapier1772** » 10 Aug 2011, 12:12

The lube needs to be applied before you resize. Most sizing dies also deprime (aka decapping).
Lube
Deprime/resize
Clean or trim
Trim or clean

MikeSantor · Post by **MikeSantor** » 10 Aug 2011, 12:31

Now im confused.

Bah, Im getting conflicting steps with everything I am reading and watching on youtube with people using the 550B.

No more questions from me till I get my reloading books and read them cover to cover.

Thanks Guys.

Post by **f3rr37** » 10 Aug 2011, 12:36

That's why I use a single stage press. I like to do things in steps, not all at the same time. :p

MikeSantor · Post by **MikeSantor** » 10 Aug 2011, 15:48

f3rr37 wrote:That's why I use a single stage press. I like to do things in steps, not all at the same time. :p

Problem with that is its great if you want to go slow and make real precise rounds but im looking to do this for plinking/range time ammo. Being a basically unemployed (worked about 20 days in the last year total) shooter, 40 cents a round for SS197 is still too much for just range time. Im looking for a way to make a decent amount of rounds in a decent time. If I could pump out 300 rounds an hour I would be tickled pink. From what i have read, you cant do this volume with a single stage press yet with something like the 550b you can work at a comfortable, relatively accurate pace and still push out 300 rounds an hour.

You obviously all realize at this point all I can do is regurgitate what I have read off line. So please speak up if anything I am saying is way off the mark. Books will be here Friday. Then I can really get into this.

Post by **Grantness** » 10 Aug 2011, 17:00

If you're using a depriming only die and then a separate size die, do this:

Deprime
Clean
Lube
Size
Trim/Chamfer/Debur
Clean (optional, but suggested)

You MAY

Clean
Deprime
Lube
Size
Trim, etc
Clean (optional)

MikeSantor · Post by **MikeSantor** » 10 Aug 2011, 17:06

Im going to end up going with your first option Grant. Only I wont be using a die for right now. Im going to see how slow it goes popping them out with a punch. I wanted to have the brass all ready to go by the time I got my press. So maybe Ill do the first big batch I have (4k+) by hand then get the die once I get the press.

Post by **jmz5** » 10 Aug 2011, 17:17

Do you have a shell holder at least? a punch may deform the brass a little if the base isn't supported.

MikeSantor · Post by **MikeSantor** » 10 Aug 2011, 17:26

Ok bad idea. I seen other people popping out primers like nothing. this is defiantly not the case with mine.

Justin, I have nothing at this point but brass. I just placed an order for a few odds and ends but nothing real big. mostly books. I guess I will just slow down a little. Like I said before, My goal is to have everything by winter time. I just wanted to atleast have my brass all ready to go by the time I got my press...

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