What is your SHTF Pistol/Long Gun Combo?

2ndAMVa · Post by **2ndAMVa** » 29 Jun 2011, 16:26

My current SHTF combo is the FN 5.7 and the AR-15 carbine (16" barrel) with optics.
Several in this forum seem to advocate the 5.7 and PS90 combo.

A friend swears by his "utterly reliable and battle-proven combo" of the stock Colt 1911 pistol and Arsenal AK (7.62x39, converted Saiga), which he considers better "knock-down calibers".

And we have endless and fun debates. He disparagingly calls my combo - "Murphy's Mattel Combo" (derived from Murphy's Law - "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong).

Another friend does not want to rely on semi-auto mechanism. Believes in proven "one-shot" hits. His non-semi-auto combo is the S&W .357 K-frame revolver and Remington 870 pump shotgun. "I don't have to shot 'em more than once, which you need to do with your '22 pellet' guns" - of course, referring to my choice of 5.56 diameter bullets in my 5.7 and AR.

Another swears by his modern and reliably-designed Glock 17 and Sig 556 combo (piston).

What is your pistol/long gun combo? What are the Pros and cons of your combo?

Mister Freeze · Post by **Mister Freeze** » 29 Jun 2011, 17:26

92f 9mm and mini-30. Cheap, robust, plentiful. Fantasy combo? FsN and a 5.7x28 carbine that uses FsN mags...

Prepper · Post by **Prepper** » 29 Jun 2011, 17:32

FsN and PS90 with a wide variety of EA ammo... Versatility and magazine capacity.

Website · Post by **jgreenberg01** » 29 Jun 2011, 17:51

FsN with ProtecTORs and extra magazines of S5s & S4Ms and my SBR'd & suppressed AR57 loaded up with S4Ms.

srt-4_jon · Post by **srt-4_jon** » 29 Jun 2011, 18:16

Glock 19 and 9mm SBR AR.

PainKillaX · Post by **PainKillaX** » 29 Jun 2011, 18:36

FsN and M14

Post by **MrSlippyFist** » 29 Jun 2011, 18:40

PainKillaX wrote:FsN and M14

Ditto.

And in another bag it's an AR7.62x39 and Glock26

And in another bag it's an M1Garand and Ruger Single6

And in another bag it's.... well you get the point

Nickf150fx4 · Post by **Nickf150fx4** » 29 Jun 2011, 18:46

SHTH combo: FsN with Viridian X5l (gen 2) 30 rd mag loaded with T6 and AR15

nrv216 · Post by **nrv216** » 29 Jun 2011, 20:12

Honestly if I had to only grab two guns, I would take my Mossberg 500 Persuader (8 shot) for its versatility. The pistol would be a hard choice between the FsN and the Glock 21sf. Whichever I chose would obviously be wearing my streamlight tlr-2.

Post by **blueorison** » 29 Jun 2011, 20:17

My combination is something money cannot buy.

Skill and wisdom.

Blue out.

Post by **panzermk2** » 29 Jun 2011, 20:30

FsN Loaded with an EA round no one out side of the shop has ever seen let alone know about.

And this above me..............

Post by **Grantness** » 29 Jun 2011, 20:37

I would choose the FsN and the AR57 (loaded w/ my own special recipes). Don't own the AR57 upper yet though...so Im kinda screwed for now. PS90 might be easier to carry, but I like knowing that i could slap a heavier caliber on my lower quick if I really needed it for stopping vehicles or something. My reasoning is that I'd prefer to carry the same ammo for both guns. I can carry way more 5.7x28 than 556 or 308 + whatever pistol ammo you have....and I can make a lot more for cheaper + i've got supplies on hand for thousands of rounds. AR57/PS90 has that nice 50 rnd capacity which you could easily couple to have 100 on hand in a flash (w/ 556 or 308 you gotta trust beta mags for that...and they are really expensive for something that could be potentially unreliable). In the woods up here, I don't need range. 2-300 yards is all I would ever need IF THAT. For hunting, I could make due with an AR57 for basically any size game up here. Subsonics are easy for me to make, so I could keep a low profile if necessary. Plus I wouldnt want to kill a bunny rabbit with a high caliber weapon...kinda cuts down on the salvageable meat.

Inside the house, it's hard to beat a good high capacity shotgun. Sure wish AA12's were available to the public.... Guess an SBR SAGA would be ok.

srt-4_jon · Post by **srt-4_jon** » 29 Jun 2011, 21:05

blueorison wrote:My combination is something money cannot buy.

Skill and wisdom.

Blue out.

So which is the pistol and which is the long gun?

Post by **blueorison** » 29 Jun 2011, 21:12

They are a harmony.

Without each other, one will fail.

Just as the gear needs the skill of the shooter to operate, the shooter needs good gear. Wisdom is far-reaching, and skill allows wisdom to be enacted.

Post by **Grantness** » 29 Jun 2011, 21:31

For Blue its small and large sub-moa rocks :laugh:

MikeSantor · Post by **MikeSantor** » 29 Jun 2011, 21:56

panzermk2 wrote:FsN Loaded with an EA round no one out side of the shop has ever seen let alone know about.

Well you got yourself in a bind now Jay because I will be INSIDE the shop in a few weeks

cant wait to see such said rounds :laugh:

Post by **panzermk2** » 29 Jun 2011, 22:48

I have boxes of prototype bullets sitting all over. Some are pretty freaky.

srt-4_jon · Post by **srt-4_jon** » 29 Jun 2011, 22:55

blueorison wrote:They are a harmony.

Without each other, one will fail.

Just as the gear needs the skill of the shooter to operate, the shooter needs good gear. Wisdom is far-reaching, and skill allows wisdom to be enacted.

I agree. But that wasnt the question silly.

Post by **blueorison** » 30 Jun 2011, 03:42

Grantness wrote:For Blue its small and large sub-moa rocks :laugh:

:thumb:

Prepper · Post by **Prepper** » 30 Jun 2011, 04:50

MrSlippyFist wrote:
PainKillaX wrote:FsN and M14
Ditto.

And in another bag it's an AR7.62x39 and Glock26

And in another bag it's an M1Garand and Ruger Single6

And in another bag it's.... well you get the point

I thought I had to come up with just one...

With me at all times are my FsN and PS90.

At work, it's my Beretta Storm PX4 9mm pistol and Beretta Storm CX4 9mm carbine. Not only do they share the same ammo, but also the same mags.

politenessman · Post by **politenessman** » 30 Jun 2011, 05:02

Yugo M70 and Glock 19, with a 10/22 for the wife and an SKS for the boy.

Not ideal, but it is what I have for now.

ETA - 'the boy' is 18 years old and 6'3 ....

Ariac · Post by **Ariac** » 30 Jun 2011, 11:22

CZ sp-01 in 9mm and my home made AR-15. The AR-15 will be put on the back burner when I can afford more FNAR magazines.

toyslr · Post by **toyslr** » 30 Jun 2011, 13:00

Colt Lightweight Commander w/crimson trace - Colt 6920 w/ eotech 552, 3x magnifier, surefire 590, beta drum w/ green tip penetrators.
SCAR 16s w/ leupold CQT, 10 mags of green tip penetrators - FN .45 Tactical

DBrigade81 · Post by **DBrigade81** » 30 Jun 2011, 14:15

I was gonna pick my 226 but I think I'd take the Five-seven w/ M3 Tac light and EA ProtecTORs. For the long gun (which I don't own yet) it would have to be a Springfield M1A or a PS90.

SHEEPDOG · Post by **SHEEPDOG** » 30 Jun 2011, 21:29

blueorison wrote:My combination is something money cannot buy.

Skill and wisdom.

Blue out.

Have you been hanging around Brion Enos?

SHEEPDOG · Post by **SHEEPDOG** » 30 Jun 2011, 21:32

blueorison wrote:
Grantness wrote:For Blue its small and large sub-moa rocks :laugh:
:thumb:

Sub Sonic too!

CenCalSplicer · Post by **CenCalSplicer** » 01 Jul 2011, 19:09

In one bag-5.7 with EA ammo and my scoped AR and green tips. In another bag my G21 with five 13 rd mags loaded with my own recipe and my newest AR equipted with YHM flip up sights and a Vortex SPARC red dot. Now I'm gonna have to build/buy an AR57 upper.

2ndAMVa · Post by **2ndAMVa** » 21 Jul 2011, 20:56

CenCal,
With your two "bags", you're ready for any eventuality.

sabotteur · Post by **sabotteur** » 22 Jul 2011, 04:41

Five seven and one of my SCAR 17s.

For my wife, it would be the Five Seven and either the SCAR 16 or one our PS90s.

cHaMeLeoN352 · Post by **cHaMeLeoN352** » 22 Jul 2011, 08:00

Either my DPMS LR-308 carbine or LWRC M6A2 with armatac 150 round drum & 5.7 loaded with T6!!! :guns:

2ndAMVa · Post by **2ndAMVa** » 22 Jul 2011, 21:06

Chameleon,
I have a DPMS 308 carbine that shoots sub-MOA at 100yards. But it's so much heavier than my 5.56 AR carbines. At my age, running around with a lighter weight rifle makes a big difference.

But that DPMS 308 is quite a tack-driver!

Do you have the piston-driver LWRC? What is your experience with the LWRC AR?

DAUG · Post by **DAUG** » 24 Jul 2011, 06:52

No doubt it will be my FsN and PS90 combo, more commonality and ammo capacity all around for the urban area I live in. As much as I like having a .45 on hand, can't carry too much of that round without slowing me and the family down.

TerryGecko · Post by **TerryGecko** » 25 Jul 2011, 05:56

PS90 USG (soon to be SBR)
FsN
Both full of loads from Elite

2ndAMVa · Post by **2ndAMVa** » 27 Jul 2011, 20:17

Daug and TeryGecko,
You guys are really tempting me to run to the gun store and buy a PS90!
That seems like a great combination...especially in the urban/semi-urban environment of Northern Virginia.

SeaHawkDriver-B · Post by **SeaHawkDriver-B** » 30 Jul 2011, 09:28

I think there are endless posts of this type floating around, but you need to be more specific. SHTF is a broad umbrella of scenarios, and each different situation requires tailoring to your specific needs. You can break it down into smaller categories that necessatiate different primary actions... aka.. "bug out" and "bug in", as well as long term SHTF, also known as 'the end of the world as we know it (TEOTWAWKI), and short term SHTF which could be a variety of region-wide natural disasters or geo-political events.

For anything long-term, i.e. a decade or longer, you should pretty much kiss your ass goodbye and consider .22lr and 12 ga. In the first 12 months of long-term SHTF, you won't have to worry about deer hunting, there won't be any left... only small game, cats, dogs, rodents, varmits, and small predators. Medicine will be gone, hospitals will be non existant, infrastructure will be in ruin. 22lr for 90% of your hunting needs and a formbidable round to keep people away from you. No one will want to get hit by a .22lr, as death by infection or slow internal bleeding will be almost certain. Suppressed its one of the quietest things out there; keeping a low profile will be paramount. Its plentiful, portable, and cheap, and NO TEOTWAKI scenario should not have a .22lr.

SHORT TERM SHTF:

BUG-IN Choices:
Rifle- SCAR-17s(Primary), Kel Tec RFB (Secondary)
Shotgun- Benelli M4 (Primary), Kel Tec KSG (Secondary)
Pistol- FNP-45T (Primary), Glock 30SF (Secondary)

BUG IN: I consider BUG-IN to be one of two stashes, either "where I'm headed", or "staying where I am". Either or, its the same scenario, so I have a BUG-IN gun/ammo at my BUG-OUT location (assuming I get there). I chose 7.62x51 for BUG-IN. Ammo portability not an issue. Superior range and firepower. NATO caliber commonality, makes a fine one-shot-kill against unruly and panicky mobs of fleeing/migrating humans (there will be lots of those in the first few weeks), a great deer-stopper, and can tear through body armor, engine blocks, cop cars, and lightly armored vehicles at far greater ranges than the .223 crowd. For me I went with SCAR 17s as my choice, although a FAL, FNAR, M1A1, AR-10 variant, or the new Keltc RFB would all make great options for half the price. For a pistol, any 9mm or .45 will work fine for BUG-IN.

Another BUG-IN choice is 12-ga in any different number of configurations, and not a bad decision at all. Just remember though that you can easily be outranged depending on the battle-scape you're in... all the buckshot in the world is useless at 350 yards against some joker with an AR. A quick-change rifled barrel and a stash of slugs would be required to mitigate that sort of risk. My BUG-IN 12 GA is a Benelli M4 with 7-round mag and skeleton stock, although i'm considering the new Keltec KSG as a fine alternative for half the money.

My BUG-IN pistol is a FNP-45 tactical with RMR. Nothing beats a full size .45 for CQC. My backup is an IWB Glock 30SF.

BUG-OUT Choices:
Rifle- SIG 556 SBR(Primary), Steyr TSP/DSA TP9 (Secondary)
Shotgun- Not recomended due to weight/size of rounds.
Pistol- Glock17(Primary), Glock 19(Secondary)

BUG OUT: This is a harder decision, you have to know where you're going and how you're planning on getting there, as well as plan for contingencies. For me, BUG OUT choice was 5.56 and 9mm, due to NATO caliber commonality, light weight per round count, weight of ammo vs kill effectiveness. I'm on the same wavelength as the dude you spoke of earlier who likes his 556 and glock combo. Its just easy, its cheap, it light weight. I can fold my rifle up and put it in a backpack with 300 rounds of SS190 M855 NATO and you'd never even know its there. LOW PROFILE is mandatory. High round count a plus. It has to be effetive in a short-term scenarior, i.e. possibility of engaging other people with guns, dispatching a militia patrol, roving scavengers, lawless band of thugs, etc. .22lr does not cut the cheese here. 9mm choice for the same reasons, but only in proper loading, i.e. 124 grain bonded +P is the ONLY thing I'd use, otherwise go with .45, or .40.

I can't reccomend 12 ga for BUG-OUT even though several people will say its what they will grab. Yeah 12 ga is veristile, but hell I put 100 rounds of 1 oz birdshot on me for dove hunting and its a PITA to carry around all day.

Pistol... Glock all day long. 9mm or 45. It gets the job done, plain and simple. Leave your ego at the door and pick up the brick that never breaks.

Post by **panzermk2** » 30 Jul 2011, 09:48

Something no one thinks about,

Black powder flintlock rifle and pistol. You can make your own powder, don't need primers and you can make your bullets from scrap.

MikeSantor · Post by **MikeSantor** » 30 Jul 2011, 09:53

panzermk2 wrote:Something no one thinks about,

Black powder flintlock rifle and pistol. You can make your own powder, don't need primers and you can make your bullets from scrap.

Yea but you can't put a tactical flashlight and an acog on it...
:wall:

Post by **panzermk2** » 30 Jul 2011, 10:00

As long as they are solar recharged yes you can.

MikeSantor · Post by **MikeSantor** » 30 Jul 2011, 10:05

Totally not tacticool...

Post by **panzermk2** » 30 Jul 2011, 10:09

LOL imagine this mental pic,

Tactifag carrying around AR15 with no ammo walks near me and gets a lead ball from a Italian brown bess copy to the mellon.

Post by **jmz5** » 30 Jul 2011, 11:42

panzermk2 wrote:Something no one thinks about,

Black powder flintlock rifle and pistol. You can make your own powder, don't need primers and you can make your bullets from scrap.

I've thought about it, and make my own black powder.

Post by **panzermk2** » 30 Jul 2011, 15:12

Did you do another batch with a finer grind?

Post by **jmz5** » 30 Jul 2011, 15:23

Made several batches since way back when.

Post by **panzermk2** » 30 Jul 2011, 21:16

Kinda figured.

Post by **jmz5** » 31 Jul 2011, 04:08

I use a rock polisher to make it.

TheOtherDave · Post by **TheOtherDave** » 01 Aug 2011, 00:00

At the moment, my SHTF pistol is a 9mm P226. If I ever get around to picking up a Glock 20 (or some other pistol that can handle full-power 10mm loads), that will become my new SHTF pistol.

For long guns, either my 10/22 or my Nagant, depending on exactly which type of S is HTF. I've also got a Remington 1100 12ga and a Mauser 98 (which I think I'd prefer to the Nagant), but I haven't had a chance to take either one to the range yet, so I don't actually know that they work, which makes me disinclined to reach for them to save my life. I'd like to get something a bit more modern for my SHTF rifle. Probably an AR-15/AR-57, but an M1A1, Kel-Tec RFB, AR-10, and PS90 are all on my to-get list as well (I'm a big bull-pup fan, but they're all expensive and I'm po'). On the shotgun front, I really like the Kel-Tec KSG's 14 rounds of 12 ga, but I'm terrified that I'll forget that it's pump-action when it counts (my skeet score lowers quite a bit if I'm shooting pump instead of semi-auto because I keep forgetting to pump it and I'll miss the second shot). I've been kicking myself for the past six months for not picking up a Saiga 12 before they got expensive. I might get one anyway, but it's a lot harder to justify when you know they're really only worth about 1/2-2/3 of what they cost these days.

I still haven't made up my mind about the FsN. I like the magazine capacity, the relative lack of recoil, and the round (or at least EA's version of it), but I'm not sure I like the gun. I've shot one a couple of times at a local range that rents them, and just in the way it balances and feels in my hand... I prefer the P226. I do like where the safety is, though. It's more convenient for me than a thumb safety, and less traditional for if the BG manages to get it away from me.

SeaHawkDriver-B · Post by **SeaHawkDriver-B** » 01 Aug 2011, 05:48

Don't feel bad TheOtherDave, I like the FiveseveN too but I haven't found a situation in which I'll reach for it. Without the SS190 rounds its more of a fun novelty in my collection than a serious defense handgun. For something that requries a .223, I'll go with one of my .223's, for something that requires a .22WMR, I'll go for my .22WMR. I suppose theoretically if i needed to cover both bases at the same time, the FsN would be the logical choice.

eVenom · Post by **eVenom** » 01 Aug 2011, 11:55

SeaHawkDriver-B wrote:Don't feel bad TheOtherDave, I like the FiveseveN too but I haven't found a situation in which I'll reach for it. Without the SS190 rounds its more of a fun novelty in my collection than a serious defense handgun. For something that requries a .223, I'll go with one of my .223's, for something that requires a .22WMR, I'll go for my .22WMR. I suppose theoretically if i needed to cover both bases at the same time, the FsN would be the logical choice.

:facepalm:

spayne3 · Post by **spayne3** » 01 Aug 2011, 18:39

Fiveseven soon to be loaded with protector III, and ps90. The protector III will be my first EA load

TheOtherDave · Post by **TheOtherDave** » 01 Aug 2011, 23:21

TheOtherDave wrote:For long guns, either my 10/22 or my Nagant, depending on exactly which type of S is HTF. I've also got a Remington 1100 12ga and a Mauser 98 (which I think I'd prefer to the Nagant), but I haven't had a chance to take either one to the range yet, so I don't actually know that they work, which makes me disinclined to reach for them to save my life. I'd like to get something a bit more modern for my SHTF rifle. Probably an AR-15/AR-57, but an M1A1, Kel-Tec RFB, AR-10, and PS90 are all on my to-get list as well (I'm a big bull-pup fan, but they're all expensive and I'm po').

A quick update... I found an AR-15 today at a price that I couldn't pass up. So I as soon as I get a chance to put it through its paces, that'll be my SHTF rifle.

CPL_Keith_Stone · Post by **CPL_Keith_Stone** » 05 Aug 2011, 22:34

I have several different combos and rigs setup for different things:
1)PS90 5x50rd'ers, FsN IOM 2x30 2x20 2x10, S&W 340PD 357 3x speedloaders. good all around medium range 200-300yds

2) Beretta CX4 9mm storm with aimpoint and surefire M600 scout light&laser , IMI Baby Deagle .45 5x10, Mossberg 500A w/knoxx topfolder ghostring sights heatsheild and special forgrip, 14" Ontario Bowie. close range out to 100yds!

3)DPMS AR-15 5.56 1x100 Beta C mag 50 or so 30rd'ers surefire M600 scout light Eotec 552 and laser, PARA-ORD P-14 5x17 highly customized v12 port race pistol very smooth and reliable,GP100 3x speed loaders, SOG seal pup elite! medium-long range out to 500yds!

4)Marlin 1894 44Mag, Remington Spartin 12g 3.5" simi-auto w/side saddle, S&W .460XVR, Ruger Redhawk 44Mag. 14" Ontario Bowie, Gerber Ax! Dangerous game and close range devastation!!!

5)Saiga .308win 3x25 & 8X8 3-9x50 NCstar scoepe BiPod, savage 93 17HMR Bull barrel BiPod FsN IOM, S&W 340PD 3x speed loader, seal pup elite!! Great long range counter sniper and Squad Designated Marksmen type role! (dont underestimate the 17HMR Ive dropped very large game one shot in the same spot and it will explode smaller game where you cant even find it just blood)

now I am active duty Army and have "acquired" extra stuff over deployment change of commands and so on so I have Vests and Plates and ACH's surefires lasers searchlights that I mix n match to meet the specifications of the task at hand! As of right now I have enough ammo for everything to fight my way to the local wal-mart to re-up on ammo like its Overstock.com!

2ndAMVa · Post by **2ndAMVa** » 06 Aug 2011, 21:25

Cpl Keith Stone,
I also have a Saiga, but in 7.62x39. It's a great carbine for the price, and extremely reliable. Looking for a Saiga 308... But I hesitate because it requires a proprietary magazine.

Post by **Cyberfly** » 06 Aug 2011, 23:36

12 gage shotgun and a .22LR.
Who needs anything else? Wife has pistols in common calibers so I figure, either shoot big or shoot small. Either way, something or someone is gonna get hurt.

TheOtherDave · Post by **TheOtherDave** » 07 Aug 2011, 00:03

2ndAMVa wrote:Cpl Keith Stone,
I also have a Saiga, but in 7.62x39. It's a great carbine for the price, and extremely reliable. Looking for a Saiga 308... But I hesitate because it requires a proprietary magazine.

As far as I know, most all .308s have proprietary magazines. At least there's no clear standard that I can see. I think the major "AR-10" manufacturers all use their own incompatible magazine designs. I've seen at least one gun that borrowed the FN FAL's magazines (Kel-Tec RFB, if anyone cares), but one out of dozens isn't really a standard.

Now you've got me curious. I'm gonna go do a bit of research...

Code: Select all

Make                 Model             Magazine

.308 AR-15 Designs:
Colt                 SP901             ???
Bushmaster           Bushmaster 308    FAL, initially. Now they use something else that they won't tell you about or sell to you, but FAL mags definitely won't work anymore 
DPMS                 LR308             Pmag
RRA                  LAR-8             LAR-8
Olympic              N/A               N/A
Armalite             AR-10             AR-10 (M14 mags can be edited to fit)
Knight’s Armament    SR25              Pmag
Knight’s Armament    M110              Pmag
Stag                 N/A               N/A
LaRue Tactical       OBR 7.62          Pmag

Other Designs:
Springfield          M1A               M14
FN                   FAL               FAL
FN                   FNAR              FNAR
FN                   SCAR-17s          SCAR-17
Saiga                Saiga 308         Saiga 308
Kel-Tec              RFB               Metric FAL

Did I forget anyone (Sig Sauer's .308 rifle isn't out yet)?

There are two things that stand out at me... First, FN seems to enjoy redesigning magazines. Second, the only mags that seem to be shared between more than one rifle are Pmags and the FAL's. Also, Kel-Tec specified metric FAL magazines; I either didn't notice or the other mfgs didn't say, and I don't know what the difference is.

Amongst AR-15-style .308s, it looks like Pmags are used in over half of them (4 out of 7 know mag types). I guess there is something resembling a standard after all. (Though there are still two rifles that use unknown magazine types, so Pmag could lose their majority just by filling in the blanks.)

CPL_Keith_Stone · Post by **CPL_Keith_Stone** » 07 Aug 2011, 12:15

when I 1st bought mine in 05' I wanted more mags so I ordered 8 off of gunbroker from a guy IN Russia to the tune of almost 50$ a piece was well worth it back then.... since than I have gotten 3 of the 25 rounders and havent had any issues so far... havent "torture" tested them but I have put them threw their paces..... great Rifle plus I only paid $350 NIB for it

CPL_Keith_Stone · Post by **CPL_Keith_Stone** » 07 Aug 2011, 19:25

However if money was not a issue My kit would be something like Benalli M4 TAC w/ RCI Xrail (23 rounds of 12G)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY1ItO1S ... re=related a Suppressed P90 and FiveseveN and a mk23 suppressed and a Cheytec 408 suppresed for those long range call'um n kill'um shots and a wheel-barrel or a up- armored Bulldozer

VeTTeMaNC486 · Post by **VeTTeMaNC486** » 07 Aug 2011, 21:11

an old Colt SP1 Carbine, and probably my fnp45

2ndAMVa · Post by **2ndAMVa** » 08 Aug 2011, 18:23

Vette,
What is a Colt SP1 carbine?

Post by **Cyberfly** » 09 Aug 2011, 07:06

2ndAMVa wrote:Vette,
What is a Colt SP1 carbine?

An early AR-15 variant.

toyslr · Post by **toyslr** » 09 Aug 2011, 09:03

SP1's have no forward assist and flat sided ejection port, the beginning of it all for COLT. Throw on a 10.5 inch barrell and its the COLT Commando

Post by **Rapier1772** » 09 Aug 2011, 09:13

I prefer the AR with the removable handle & my buddy loves the shell deflector on them since he's left handed :laugh: Don't know if those old ones had them

I haven't needed the forward assist yet, not sure how often they are used "in the field" normally.

2ndAMVa · Post by **2ndAMVa** » 09 Aug 2011, 20:10

Cyberfly wrote:
2ndAMVa wrote:Vette,
What is a Colt SP1 carbine?
An early AR-15 variant.

Thanks, Cyberfly!

Post by **Cyberfly** » 10 Aug 2011, 13:56

Yup.
Google is your friend. Well, in my case it's Bing and Wikipedia, but hey...it made me look smart for a moment! LOL!!

MikeSantor · Post by **MikeSantor** » 10 Aug 2011, 15:49

Bing?!?!? traitor...

munoz · Post by **munoz** » 10 Aug 2011, 18:44

That is cool, Looks really great.

______________________________
*edited out link, one more and you are gone. - jmz

Post by **Cyberfly** » 11 Aug 2011, 09:38

MikeSantor wrote:Bing?!?!? traitor...

Sorry. After I found out that Google saves your search info for our illustrous FedGov, I switched search engines to Bing. I hear GMail isn't as secure as we'd like to believe either...

Post by **panzermk2** » 11 Aug 2011, 09:48

Cyberfly wrote:
MikeSantor wrote:Bing?!?!? traitor...
Sorry. After I found out that Google saves your search info for our illustrous FedGov, I switched search engines to Bing. I hear GMail isn't as secure as we'd like to believe either...

Try the search engine DuckDuckGo SSL

TheOtherDave · Post by **TheOtherDave** » 12 Aug 2011, 02:15

Cyberfly wrote:
MikeSantor wrote:Bing?!?!? traitor...
Sorry. After I found out that Google saves your search info for our illustrous FedGov, I switched search engines to Bing.

And you think Bing doesn't?

Post by **Cyberfly** » 12 Aug 2011, 05:20

Haven't so far...

Gearhead721 · Post by **Gearhead721** » 19 Aug 2011, 18:36

Check out scroogle scraper
http://www.scroogle.org/cgi-bin/scraper.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

nrv216 · Post by **nrv216** » 20 Aug 2011, 19:58

TheOtherDave wrote:
2ndAMVa wrote:Cpl Keith Stone,
I also have a Saiga, but in 7.62x39. It's a great carbine for the price, and extremely reliable. Looking for a Saiga 308... But I hesitate because it requires a proprietary magazine.
As far as I know, most all .308s have proprietary magazines. At least there's no clear standard that I can see. I think the major "AR-10" manufacturers all use their own incompatible magazine designs. I've seen at least one gun that borrowed the FN FAL's magazines (Kel-Tec RFB, if anyone cares), but one out of dozens isn't really a standard.

Now you've got me curious. I'm gonna go do a bit of research...
Code: Select all
Make Model Magazine

.308 AR-15 Designs:
Colt SP901 ???
Bushmaster Bushmaster 308 FAL, initially. Now they use something else that they won't tell you about or sell to you, but FAL mags definitely won't work anymore 
DPMS LR308 Pmag
RRA LAR-8 LAR-8
Olympic N/A N/A
Armalite AR-10 AR-10 (M14 mags can be edited to fit)
Knight’s Armament SR25 Pmag
Knight’s Armament M110 Pmag
Stag N/A N/A
LaRue Tactical OBR 7.62 Pmag

Other Designs:
Springfield M1A M14
FN FAL FAL
FN FNAR FNAR
FN SCAR-17s SCAR-17
Saiga Saiga 308 Saiga 308
Kel-Tec RFB Metric FAL
Did I forget anyone (Sig Sauer's .308 rifle isn't out yet)?

There are two things that stand out at me... First, FN seems to enjoy redesigning magazines. Second, the only mags that seem to be shared between more than one rifle are Pmags and the FAL's. Also, Kel-Tec specified metric FAL magazines; I either didn't notice or the other mfgs didn't say, and I don't know what the difference is.

Amongst AR-15-style .308s, it looks like Pmags are used in over half of them (4 out of 7 know mag types). I guess there is something resembling a standard after all. (Though there are still two rifles that use unknown magazine types, so Pmag could lose their majority just by filling in the blanks.)

All the H&K G3 variants. I am currently looking at a ptr-91 super sniper (has a harris bipod, Magpul PRS stock and a picatinny rail welded on the receiver so its optic-ready) that take the cheap g3 mags. That would be my all purpose rifle and I would probably sell off the rest. I have come to realize that I am just a more of a pistol guy and only need one shotgun and rifle. BUT... I can't buy it now. Saving up money for my wedding. They MSRP at $2100 and budsgunshop is selling them for around $1800. Someone buy the one on gunbroker listed for $1500 NEW, its a great deal and knowing that its out there is KILLING ME!

Post by **Rapier1772** » 20 Aug 2011, 22:23

nrv216 wrote:All the H&K G3 variants. I am currently looking at a ptr-91 super sniper (has a harris bipod, Magpul PRS stock and a picatinny rail welded on the receiver so its optic-ready) that take the cheap g3 mags. That would be my all purpose rifle and I would probably sell off the rest. I have come to realize that I am just a more of a pistol guy and only need one shotgun and rifle. BUT... I can't buy it now. Saving up money for my wedding. They MSRP at $2100 and budsgunshop is selling them for around $1800. Someone buy the one on gunbroker listed for $1500 NEW, its a great deal and knowing that its out there is KILLING ME!

I have that rifle, pics here: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6194" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Its a heavy son of gun, not one you want to carry around hunting. But maybe you can plant yourself somewhere & talk some other people into bird-dogging game down a draw or something. Farthest I have consistently hit with it is OJ bottles at ~400yd so far (the farthest distance at the local range).
2 "complaints" - 1) its a pain to clean because the gases are blown back through the fluted chamber & it makes everything dirty as hell & 2) nowhere to mount a stock monopod (for elevation)

Let me know if you have any questions, maybe I can help?

SHEEPDOG · Post by **SHEEPDOG** » 20 Aug 2011, 22:51

Fn 45t, Benneli M3 or M4, Blaser tac2 338 Lapua, FN fs 2000.

I have already bugged out and live in a virtual fortress.

nrv216 · Post by **nrv216** » 21 Aug 2011, 08:17

Rapier,
Sweet rifle! You have succeeded in making things even harder on me. Thanks :wall: But really, thanks for the link and I still can't wait to get my hands on one of my own!

nrv216

SHEEPDOG · Post by **SHEEPDOG** » 21 Aug 2011, 18:04

+1 Cool rifle.

Post by **blueorison** » 21 Aug 2011, 19:07

SHEEPDOG wrote:Fn 45t, Benneli M3 or M4, Blaser tac2 338 Lapua, FN fs 2000.

I have already bugged out and live in a virtual fortress.

LOL

dude if any wanton zombie attacks you, your bad@$$ soccer-winning offspring would kick their heads off with 2000 ft/lbs of energy, much more than any gun could afford.

SO much win.

Syphon · Post by **Syphon** » 23 Aug 2011, 15:45

For now? My FsN With S4M ammo and my Remington 870. Both of 'em within reach from my bed at night.

VeTTeMaNC486 · Post by **VeTTeMaNC486** » 25 Aug 2011, 09:05

Rapier1772 wrote:I prefer the AR with the removable handle & my buddy loves the shell deflector on them since he's left handed :laugh: Don't know if those old ones had them I haven't needed the forward assist yet, not sure how often they are used "in the field" normally.

I would prefer a flat top myself. I don't care about the forward assist and I'm a righty so I dont care about the shell deflector. My budy who shoots rifle left handed shot it the other day, he wasn't too excited about the shells flying right by his face (also complained about power/gasses etc :laugh: ). Still a neat piece of AR history.

SeaHawkDriver-B · Post by **SeaHawkDriver-B** » 25 Aug 2011, 10:28

Bug out: Small, concealable, light weight, short to medium range, common caliber, interoperable with pistol a plus, high round count, quiet/suppessed.
Bug in: Who cares.

Llagoud · Post by **Llagoud** » 25 Aug 2011, 11:02

SeaHawkDriver-B wrote:
Bug in: Who cares.

:thumb: Bugging in, all options are open. Since I left the city I dropped the bug out plans.......by bugging out early with everything. :laugh: Just received my emergency butter yesterday.(six #10 cans of freeze dried)

ChiefJohn · Post by **ChiefJohn** » 01 Sep 2011, 03:34

My FiveSeven and soon to be acquired http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/previ ... otgun-ksg/ gauge -- dual tubes with 7 rounds (2 3/4") in each, mixed loads, with the ability to switch chambers. "The simple and reliable pump action feeds from either the left or right tube. The feed side is manually selected by a lever located behind the trigger guard."

Post by **Rapier1772** » 01 Sep 2011, 05:50

Chief, you're not the only one waiting for that thing. We've already got a thread started on it too

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=9625" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Valorius · Post by **Valorius** » 01 Sep 2011, 17:03

My new anti-zombie setup:

*US Armor Class IIIA vest with dual frontal Class IV ceramic trauma plates.
*Mar-om Dolphin "tactical" vest with integrated backpack and hydration system. It also has holsters and pouches sufficient to carry all of my weapons and magazines.

*FN Five SeveN USG with Viridian C5L, Tritium night sights and 15x magazines- 14x20 rd, 1x30 rd. (311 total rds)
*HK P7 with Laserlyte QD-U V3 rail mounted pulse laser, Trijicon night sights, and 3x magazines (25 total rds)
*Ruger LCP with Crimson Trace laserguard and 3x 7rd +1 magazines (22 total rds)
*Cold Steel Kukri Machete
*US M7 Bayonet
*Surefire 6PX 170lumen light with skull crusher

Total weight for the entire package including weapons, armor and 358rds of ammunition is 33.2 lbs.
(The same exact setup, but substituting the Five SeveN pistol and ammo with my now sold 16" AR and 5.56mm ammo weighed in at a whooping 53.6lbs)

I'll be buying a pistol lower short barreled AR-57 pretty soon too.

Thedirtyheat · Post by **Thedirtyheat** » 01 Sep 2011, 17:26

As per zombies [SHTF] going to have to go with fnp 9mm and a custom ar for 7.62x39. The biggest reason why for me it wouldnt be my fiveseven or a ps90 is because even though I prefer my five seven and love it I'm looking to be in it for the long haul and you can find 9mm and 7.62x39 NATO everywhere in the world in abundance. (oh and the ar would be left handed because even with a brass deflector I get tired of burn marks on my arm)

SeaHawkDriver-B · Post by **SeaHawkDriver-B** » 01 Sep 2011, 17:56

I just wish they'd come out with conversion kit for the SCAR-17... one where you could go instantly from 7.62x51 to Commie-bastard 7.62x39, and then drop in a barrel/bolt for 5.56x45. Having those three calibers interchanabgle by barrel, bolt, and magazine would be the ultimate SHTF rifle.

Thedirtyheat · Post by **Thedirtyheat** » 01 Sep 2011, 18:06

I agree along with barrel length options like the acr offers (although I'm not sure you can convert it to 7.62) I have shot both I was unimpressed with the acr might have been a lemon but it was new and already having feed issues. Let's just say a scar 17 is next on my list of guns to buy.

srt-4_jon · Post by **srt-4_jon** » 01 Sep 2011, 18:16

SeaHawkDriver-B wrote:I just wish they'd come out with conversion kit for the SCAR-17... one where you could go instantly from 7.62x51 to Commie-bastard 7.62x39, and then drop in a barrel/bolt for 5.56x45. Having those three calibers interchanabgle by barrel, bolt, and magazine would be the ultimate SHTF rifle.

You would also need a barrel to swap 7.62x51 to 7.62x39.

Valorius · Post by **Valorius** » 01 Sep 2011, 18:57

Thedirtyheat wrote:As per zombies [SHTF] going to have to go with fnp 9mm and a custom ar for 7.62x39. The biggest reason why for me it wouldnt be my fiveseven or a ps90 is because even though I prefer my five seven and love it I'm looking to be in it for the long haul and you can find 9mm and 7.62x39 NATO everywhere in the world in abundance. (oh and the ar would be left handed because even with a brass deflector I get tired of burn marks on my arm)

I have 2000rds of 5.7mm (and will probably be buying at least another 1000rds of top end Elite ammo for my SHTF stockpile). There is no way in hell i'm ever going to burn through 2000-3000rds of ammo in any scenario, even an alien invasion.

If i find 5.56mm ammo, odds are, i've just found an AR too. Same for 9mm.

2ndAMVa · Post by **2ndAMVa** » 01 Sep 2011, 21:44

[quote="Valorius"]Here's my zombie gear:

*US Armor Class IIIA vest with dual frontal Class IV ceramic trauma plates.
*Mar-om Dolphin "tactical" vest with integrated backpack and hydration system. It also has holsters and pouches sufficient to carry all of my weapons and magazines.

*FN Five SeveN USG with Viridian C5L, Tritium night sights and 15x magazines- 14x20 rd, 1x30 rd.
*HK P7 with Laserlyte QD-U V3 rail mounted pulse laser, Trijicon night sights, and 3x magazines
*Ruger LCP with Crimson Trace laserguard and 3x 7rd +1 magazines
*Cold Steel Kukri Machete
*US M7 Bayonet...

-------

I like your total KIT, Valorius! I'd like to know more about the machete that you picked. Looks goods. Can you provoke info on the machete?
Thanks!

Valorius · Post by **Valorius** » 01 Sep 2011, 21:58

Thanks!

Here's the info on the Cold Steel Kukri machete:

Cold Steel 97MKM Magnum Kukri Machete

Blade Length: 17"
Overall Length: 22"
Steel: 1055 Carbon Steel w/ Black Baked on Anti Rust Matte Finish
Weight: 18.2 oz
Blade Thickness: 2 mm
Handle: 5" Long Polypropylene
Sheath: Cordura
Suggested Retail Price: $30.99

Thedirtyheat · Post by **Thedirtyheat** » 02 Sep 2011, 03:42

No way you would burn through more then 3k ammo haven't you checked outthe world population lately, zombie attack could have you more busy then you would think just saying. Although its true minus the impossible zombie attack it's hard to imagine burning through more then 3k ammo haha

ChiefJohn · Post by **ChiefJohn** » 02 Sep 2011, 04:41

The Kel-Tec KSB, loaded with "D Dupleks" http://www.ddupleks.lv/EN/articles/show/products would definitely get the bad guys attention!! :thumb: DDupleks makes some very nasty stuff for close range personal defense.

Thedirtyheat · Post by **Thedirtyheat** » 02 Sep 2011, 04:56

Wow yea they do Although the nastiest close range weapon in my personal opinion of course is a 203 buckshot round.... Get a hold of a 203 and mount one of those on your rifle loaded with buckshot 203 just look up a video of it, there are few weapons I have enjoyed using more.

WolfRulz · Post by **WolfRulz** » 02 Oct 2011, 10:08

I have a special Bug Out Pack I'm putting the finishing touches on - with among all the other necessary SHTF items – a Five-seveN pistol, an AR57 12” SBR with plenty of mags and ammo.
I have a 223, .45, 12 gauge some 22LR pistols and rifles but I went with this combo because of the research I did and the capabilities of the ammo (in various rounds) and it’s light weight and small size. Well that’s my 2 cents. FWIW.

FNForever · Post by **FNForever** » 02 Oct 2011, 10:44

Smith and Wesson M&P45/ Springfield Armory Socom 16. Depending on how I like the FsN, it will replace the M&P45 as my go to handgun.

flyingirish04 · Post by **flyingirish04** » 02 Oct 2011, 12:04

srt-4_jon wrote:
SeaHawkDriver-B wrote:I just wish they'd come out with conversion kit for the SCAR-17... one where you could go instantly from 7.62x51 to Commie-bastard 7.62x39, and then drop in a barrel/bolt for 5.56x45. Having those three calibers interchanabgle by barrel, bolt, and magazine would be the ultimate SHTF rifle.
You would also need a barrel to swap 7.62x51 to 7.62x39.

Yep, you would.

Deployment Solutions · Post by **Deployment Solutions** » 13 Oct 2011, 11:08

FnH 5.7 pistol and AR 5.7 or PS90. I can carry LOTS of ammo in 50 rd mags.

SeaHawkDriver-B · Post by **SeaHawkDriver-B** » 13 Oct 2011, 15:28

Deployment Solutions wrote:FnH 5.7 pistol and AR 5.7 or PS90. I can carry LOTS of ammo in 50 rd mags.

And when you eventually ran out of ammo, you could use your PS90 as a walking stick. Its hard to find 5.7x28 even when things are "normal".

I'd say start with the things that don't require reloading or are re-usable... compound bow/cross bow/machette; then work towards things which are readily available and common. .22lr/9mm/.45acp/5.56/.38spl/12ga

Wollychop · Post by **Wollychop** » 13 Oct 2011, 15:34

SeaHawkDriver-B wrote:
Deployment Solutions wrote:FnH 5.7 pistol and AR 5.7 or PS90. I can carry LOTS of ammo in 50 rd mags.
And when you eventually ran out of ammo, you could use your PS90 as a walking stick. Its hard to find 5.7x28 even when things are "normal".

I'd say start with the things that don't require reloading or are re-usable... compound bow/cross bow/machette; then work towards things which are readily available and common. .22lr/9mm/.45acp/5.56/.38spl/12ga

Or my .75 cal / 11 gauge flintlock. Even if you run out of shot or balls, you can just load it with gravel or nails :laugh:

SeaHawkDriver-B · Post by **SeaHawkDriver-B** » 13 Oct 2011, 15:41

2ndAMVa wrote:
Valorius wrote:Here's my zombie gear:

*US Armor Class IIIA vest with dual frontal Class IV ceramic trauma plates.
*Mar-om Dolphin "tactical" vest with integrated backpack and hydration system. It also has holsters and pouches sufficient to carry all of my weapons and magazines.

*FN Five SeveN USG with Viridian C5L, Tritium night sights and 15x magazines- 14x20 rd, 1x30 rd.
*HK P7 with Laserlyte QD-U V3 rail mounted pulse laser, Trijicon night sights, and 3x magazines
*Ruger LCP with Crimson Trace laserguard and 3x 7rd +1 magazines
*Cold Steel Kukri Machete
*US M7 Bayonet...

quote]

:p This thread is just for fun, so don't take anything too critically... but...

When you show up for SHTF looking like you just walked off the cover of Call-of-Duty Magazine, do you think you wont' stick out like a Sore thumb? I guarantee you woulnd't make it past the first police or military checkpoint. And anyone seeing you marching on their land is going to perceive you as a threat- thats every Tom, Dick, and Harry with a .30-06 deer rifle will take pop shots at you thinking you're coming to either kill them or steal their stuff. SHTF is not combat. I could see the point of your setup if it were actual Zombies, but I think we all would agree that SHTF from other means is about 20000% more likely.

How about this... concealed Level IIIA vest under civilian clothes. Hiking boots and inconspicuous outdoor clothing, no camo. Folding carbine of a common caliber in a non-descript backpack, multiple pistols easily accessible yet concelaed in either the same or common calibers. Hydration system concelaed within backpack.

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