Optics on the FNP 45 Tactical

BigHat · Post by **BigHat** » 06 Sep 2010, 07:12

Hi,
For those of you that are running optics let me ask a question. Seems like the Burris FF II and the new Leupold DeltaPoint seem to have locking screws for the windage and elevation adjustment. I'm worried that one has to remove the optic to loosen the set screws to then adjust the optic. There doesn't appear to enough space in front of the rear sight. True? Your experience would be appreciated.

BigHat · Post by **BigHat** » 06 Sep 2010, 08:42

Thanks, it looks like the fiber optic and the battery powered RMR lack the rear facing locking screws-- so that's a good thing. Seems most of the battery equipped units require the removal of the sight to change the cell too. Does one need to worry about retaining zero? If so, maybe the tritium RMR might make the most sense.

User42 · Post by **User42** » 09 Sep 2010, 22:45

According to the burris FF2 manual, it auto adjusts the brightness according to the light sensor input. If you were to leave it in near perfect darkness (like with the cover on, or in a case or a safe), it will stay on the dimmest setting (still being visible, if you happened to be actually aiming it in perfect darkness), which can run for 5 years on one battery. Tritium is always on, but with a shelf life. I think if they are similar enough to not be a big difference in quality, I would rather change the batteries every few years and re-zero it than have something that will be a paperweight in 20 years. Obviously for straight pistol sights tritium is the best, but for an optic, I would rather have something with good battery management. Even if it requires remounting after replacing the battery.

BigHat · Post by **BigHat** » 10 Sep 2010, 08:56

satellitedr3ams wrote:my FF2 had an on off switch, i know the trijicon ones do, but ive owned 2 or 3 ff2 and none stayed on and none had tritium in them. battery life was rather nice i must say. and user, if you think you'd rather have the FF2, come by and ill show you what a pain in the ass it is to put on and off after you have to put it on and off after sighting it in, its not fun, and its not quick.

Concur. 2 FFIIs and they both have on/off switches.

Batteries have shelf life, tritium has half life and that's 15 or so years in an ACOG so assume the RMR would be about the same. Long enough for me. I'm just unsure about how the tritium/fiber optic looks and it's hard to see locally.

The battery power sights in some cases power down via various techniques to include motion detection.

My biggest concern is return to zero. If I don't have to change the battery I don't have to rezero or confirm.

ynoty3k · Post by **ynoty3k** » 10 Sep 2010, 10:08

satellitedr3ams wrote:i tried the FF2 on my Fnp tact and it was such a bitch i sold the gun and the optic. i got me a black one and thinking can and the RMR

sounds like a plan to me. How much you getting the black ones in at?

BigHat · Post by **BigHat** » 10 Sep 2010, 10:21

Meant to edit not quote. From the FFII manual:

It features both an on/off switch and a light sensor that automatically adjusts the dot’s brightness to the available light. The included plastic hood covers the light sensor and puts the unit in sleep mode when the on/off switch is set to “on.” FastFire is powered by a lithium CR2032 battery, which is commonly available and long lasting because of the highly efficient electronics and the battery-saver mode. A battery can last as long as five years. The Picatinny Mount allows mounting on just about any rifle. Special bases are available for the most common firearms.

Ariac · Post by **Ariac** » 10 Sep 2010, 12:06

satellitedr3ams wrote:
ynoty3k wrote:
satellitedr3ams wrote:i tried the FF2 on my Fnp tact and it was such a bitch i sold the gun and the optic. i got me a black one and thinking can and the RMR
sounds like a plan to me. How much you getting the black ones in at?

right at 1000$ its a lipseys special, thats why it took me so long to find em, but they sure are purdyyyyy.

also the RMR, trijicon should be able to replace the tritium in it, but if its anything like the ar style dot sights they have, i have seen them damn things go out as i was shooting it, and they were no where near 10 years old. i doubt its the same problem, but it would be nice to be reassured.

No to be offensive but what do you mean by go out? Did the tube fall out or something? Tritium is a H isotope if I remember right from physics, and it has a half life of about 12 years. Even after the 12 years it doesn't just go out, but rather becomes dimmer. Then after another cycle it would become half as bright again etc forever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritium" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-life" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
edit:spelling and links

Post by **f3rr37** » 10 Sep 2010, 14:09

My grandpa's S&W 1076 has tritium sights, its probably 15-20 years old now, sights are dim, but they still work just fine and you can see them.

Post by **blueorison** » 10 Sep 2010, 14:27

satellitedr3ams wrote:All that bs about 15 years is just that, bs. tell me how 2 sights that cost near 1000$ were not dim not even slightly in the pitch dark, the tritium "went out" "cut off" whatever you wanna call it and one was on a department gun. i mean if i didnt experience it first hand i wouldnt warn you. believe your WIKI that anyone can edit if you want, but im in the field and testing on a daily basis on these products.

I support first-hand testing instead of online reiterations.

Kudos to you, Satellite. Leupold has had problems, even with their expensive scopes. Which is why they have good customer service to replace them. Shot a Leupy on a DMR and it wouldn't adjust right. Leupold sent a new one.

srt-4_jon · Post by **srt-4_jon** » 10 Sep 2010, 14:46

satellitedr3ams wrote: also the RMR, trijicon should be able to replace the tritium in it, but if its anything like the ar style dot sights they have, i have seen them damn things go out as i was shooting it, and they were no where near 10 years old. i doubt its the same problem, but it would be nice to be reassured.

I didnt think Trijicon replaced tritium. I am pretty sure they dont on their ACOGs

BigHat · Post by **BigHat** » 10 Sep 2010, 15:37

srt-4_jon wrote:
satellitedr3ams wrote: also the RMR, trijicon should be able to replace the tritium in it, but if its anything like the ar style dot sights they have, i have seen them damn things go out as i was shooting it, and they were no where near 10 years old. i doubt its the same problem, but it would be nice to be reassured.
I didnt think Trijicon replaced tritium. I am pretty sure they dont on their ACOGs

You're pretty wrong regarding the ACOGs. Well known they service them and it's around $400 for new tritium. No knowledge on the RMRs, but they're so new so not surprised.

ynoty3k · Post by **ynoty3k** » 10 Sep 2010, 17:26

So from that wiki page, I gather that tritium works much the same way that florescent lights do, a vial coated with a fine layer of phosphor, then in tritium's case, it's natural glow comes from the reaction with the phosphor, and a florescent light has an inert gas, which when charged with electricity glows.

With that information, it would be possible for tritium to just go out. If the seal on the case is at all compromised then it could suddenly go dark. And at the market rate of 30,000/gram, 400 for a set of new tritium glass tubes doesn't seem too shabby!

User42 · Post by **User42** » 10 Sep 2010, 17:29

Going specifically by the half life, in 12 years or so it will be 50% as bright as it was origionally, and 50% of that in another 12 years. I think if you have seen the tritium sight "go out", it means something must have broken, either it fell out, ruptured, or whatever. The tritium itself did not stop being radioactive in an instant.

I have a FF2, but the rear sight on my fiveseven came loose the first time I fired it. What exactly were you saying is wrong with it? It seems pretty simple to assemble and dissasemble, and after that it's only a matter of sighting it back in.

Post by **blueorison** » 10 Sep 2010, 20:28

satellitedr3ams wrote:nothing is wrong with it on the fiveseven bro. this topic is for the fnp. i got off topic, we got off topic and im done here. i was just trying to express the experience i have had with the tritium in different optics. the ff2 was just not good to use with the FNPT thats all. sorry guys, didnt mean to get this headed the wrong way. RMR is a good choice, so is the doc op. Trijicon will gladly replace the trit in their optics, just call, and talk to someone in a polite way, not saying you will get it for free but they have decent customer service for their stuff but the AR one they have on sale/sell is kinda iffy. the life of the tritium is dependent on the seal of the sight so you can say its not the gas/its not the company, but its something that just happens. these sights are made by people like you and me and sometimes "we" make mistakes and or components get off a lil and it causes bad batches or "weak" spots in sights for diff guns and sights, my input was strictly on experience and not hear say. take it with a grain of salt if you really wanted to buy something like that and learn yourself. i dont do this because i get paid, if that was the case i wouldnt be here with you guys, and gals.

:thumb:

+1 for honesty.

Ariac · Post by **Ariac** » 10 Sep 2010, 23:07

Wow didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. Just trying to clarify. I have a couple pistols with tritium sights myself (p226 hsp, and CZ sp-01), and have delt with half life first hand in physics. The wiki was for the benifit of others. I am inclined to believe the first hand experience on the sight. Just wanted to know what kind of failure took place i.e. tube fell out, broke ect since the tritium didn't just cease to be radioactive. I have been thinking about buying one of the tritium powered RMRs lately.

User42 · Post by **User42** » 10 Sep 2010, 23:59

Yea I don't think anyone was trying to compare the FSN to the FNP, I only mentioned it because that happens to be all the experience I have with mounting an optic on a pistol. I was mostly replying to Big Hat about having to re zero most battery powered optics.

To sum up my thoughts, I think there is obviously nothing better for pistol sights than having tritium dots installed, but in an optic I would rather have battery power over tritium. Batteries die, and have a shelf life even if completely unused, but considering the options I would rather have a bright optic by spending a few bucks changing the battery every few years than to have to spend a few hundred sending the optic back to the company every decade or so. It sucks that the FF2 has to be removed to change the battery, but the cash saved would more than pay for the ammo required to re sight it in. That and if Burris happens to goes out of business in 5 years, I will still be able to change that battery. Could we say the same for Trijicon? Who knows.

So uhh, what sucked about the Burris? Would it not keep its zero on the FNP? If you prefer the Trijicon, then by all means go for it. Oh and if you do, definitely get us some pics once you get it mounted

Ohhh I think I see what you are saying about having to take it on and off. I have EA's rail mount, so I have the rail mounted FF2, which is easy to pop on and off. Hell, if it ever breaks or dies on me, all I need is a screwdriver or a key or something, and I can use the sights built into the mount. Yea if you had the mount specific for the pistol, I could see how that would be a pain in the ass.

BigHat · Post by **BigHat** » 15 Sep 2010, 12:23

The reviews of the RMR (FO/Tritium version) in the pistol application seem to be pretty good. Couple of folks using them on ARs seem to worry about the "dot" washing out against a white wall illuminated with a bright flashlight, but other than that it seems to be a good fit on a pistol. The unavoidable co-witness aspect of the large tritium sights on the pistol itself seem to offer a good back-up in a the worst case lighting scenario.

BigHat · Post by **BigHat** » 17 Oct 2010, 10:41

Quick update. Pistol and optic on the way. Opted for the FO/Tritium RMR with a 9 MOA dot.

MadDogDan · Post by **MadDogDan** » 28 Oct 2010, 14:13

I have had the Trijicon Dual Illuminated RMR on my FN45-Tac for 6 or 8 months and it is one of the best set-ups I have tried so far. I have MRD's on other auto loaders and the FN system out performs all others that I have. I went with the 7moa dot as I like to keep them around 8moa on pistols if possible. I use mine mainly for 3-gun and home protection but do sometines CCW it in a Blade-Tech IWB holster.

MadDog :thumb:

BigHat · Post by **BigHat** » 28 Oct 2010, 14:30

Hey Mad Dog. Congrats and thanks for the pics!!! :clap:

I put my rig together tomorrow. I went with the 9 MOA model. Had thought 9 and 13 MOA were they only two options with the FO/Tritium model. Can't wait to pump rounds through it.

Take care,
Matt

Website · Post by **jgreenberg01** » 29 Oct 2010, 07:50

MadDogDan wrote:I have had the Trijicon Dual Illuminated RMR on my FN45-Tac for 6 or 8 months and it is one of the best set-ups I have tried so far. I have MRD's on other auto loaders and the FN system out performs all others that I have. I went with the 7moa dot as I like to keep them around 8moa on pistols if possible. I use mine mainly for 3-gun and home protection but do sometines CCW it in a Blade-Tech IWB holster.

I set mine up with the 7moa RMR also... are you saying that you have a bladetech IWB that will hold an FNP 45 Tactical set up with an RMR???

If so - which one?

BigHat · Post by **BigHat** » 29 Oct 2010, 17:11

Yea,
The missing link for this fine pistol. Personally, I want a leg mounted than fits the Tactical w/ an RMR mounted on it.

MadDogDan · Post by **MadDogDan** » 29 Oct 2010, 18:59

Place your order over the phone with Blade-Tech. Tell them you want their IWB holster for the FNP45 Tactical. That way they make the holster a little longer to cover the extended barrel. Also make sure you ask for a "speed cut". They will cut the front of the holster low enough to accomodate the RMR.

That is what I did,
MadDog

Website · Post by **jgreenberg01** » 30 Oct 2010, 05:58

Thanks, I emailed them last night (because they were closed for the weekend already), Do you have any pics of the holster with/without the gun?

Also, how stable is it? My FsN sits comfortably in my Blade-Tech UCH (worn in the small of the back) and does not slide on the belt at all, but the FNP is substantially heavier...

toyslr · Post by **toyslr** » 30 Oct 2010, 06:57

Think one things is missing in the FF to RMR comparison and thats cost. Burris FF II's run between 240-280 where RMR's (espicially the Dual) is going to run north of 500. For the money I've mounted 2 or 3 FF's and had NO issues but choose to run an RMR for the fact that no battery is needed

BigHat · Post by **BigHat** » 30 Oct 2010, 07:45

toyslr wrote:Think one things is missing in the FF to RMR comparison and thats cost. Burris FF II's run between 240-280 where RMR's (espicially the Dual) is going to run north of 500. For the money I've mounted 2 or 3 FF's and had NO issues but choose to run an RMR for the fact that no battery is needed

Price and battery are actually minor considerations between these two optics.

Let's use the facts. A Burris FFII goes for $199. I just paid $419 for the Dual RMR. (see Optics Planet) So double, but not even remotely close to three FFs in price.
More importantly, the FF is a 4 MOA dot which is harder to find in the sight quickly. I know as I use one on a FiveseveN. The RMR options of 9 and 13 MOA (currently from the Trijicon site) are more suited to a pistol application.

Personally, I don't even know why the FF even comes up as an option for this pistol. It has locking screws for the windage and elevation adjustments that are impossible to get at as the rear sight blocks access to them. In other words, you can't adjust the sight, or lock down your zero without removing it from the pistol. To me that's a showstopper. The small dot and battery though are two more reasons I don't favor it on this pistol.

I own and use two FFIIs by the way.

SeaHawkDriver-B · Post by **SeaHawkDriver-B** » 30 Oct 2010, 10:41

MadDogDan wrote:I have had the Trijicon Dual Illuminated RMR on my FN45-Tac for 6 or 8 months and it is one of the best set-ups I have tried so far. I have MRD's on other auto loaders and the FN system out performs all others that I have. I went with the 7moa dot as I like to keep them around 8moa on pistols if possible. I use mine mainly for 3-gun and home protection but do sometines CCW it in a Blade-Tech IWB holster.

MadDog :thumb:

Nice setup... except for the fact my FNP has a a Gemtech can hanging off the front end, its identical to yours. Makes for one HELL of a .45 Auto setup. I'm so used-to shooting with an RMR or the Fastfire on the FiveseveN that iron sights feel cumbersome to me now.

I opted to trade in my MSAR for the new AUG-A3; IMHO Steyr has brought the A3 above and beyond the new MSAR designs in terms of the quirks that made the original MSAR's more appealing. Plus my A3 came in the box with both Steyr lowers for properitary AUG mags and AR mags... I keep the AR mag lower on there for home defense such that I can use the same mags for my traditional Bushmaster AR, my AUG A3, and my Sig 552, all three different 556 carbines able to interchange mags is AWESOME!!!

As for shotguns, I'm straight up Benelli M3 and an M4.. .I coudlnt' decide which one was better so I bought both. :laugh: Although I'm considering a mossberg 590 pistol-grip for in-vehicle carry, and a Saiga 12 with 25rd drums for the occasional zombie attack.

FiveseveNForum.com

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