VV N350 loads

Reloading info for the 5.7x28mm

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Grantness
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VV N350 loads

Post by Grantness » 07 May 2009, 16:13

VVN350

40gr Nosler ballistic tip. Trim: 1.130" OAL: 1.580" Primer: CCI 400

5.3gr: 1692 fps
5.5gr: 1728.25 fps
5.6gr: 1754.5 fps
5.7gr: 1783.25 fps
5.8gr: 1808.6 fps
5.9gr: 1831 fps
6.0gr: 1853 fps

No serious signs of pressure at 6gr. Flattened primers & a little bit of cratering. No dented case necks. Necks slightly dirty....but nothing to worry about. This powder seems to be fairly fast burning. Im thinking it would do well with lighter bullets like 36gr Varmint Grenade, 36gr Sinterfire, & 28gr SS195.

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Re: VV N350 loads

Post by Wollychop » 07 May 2009, 16:20

Thanks grant!

How long did it take you to get a hold of that powder? Seems like there's *nothing* down here.

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Re: VV N350 loads

Post by fatherfoof » 07 May 2009, 16:22

Always fun following your posts Grant, thanks.
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Grantness
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Re: VV N350 loads

Post by Grantness » 07 May 2009, 16:36

My pleasure :)

I just ordered it off of Grafs. Took an extended lunch and caught the FedEx guy (you gotta sign for hazmat stuff :( )

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Re: VV N350 loads

Post by karbuv » 07 May 2009, 20:20

Grant thanks for your hard work on these loads. Have you tried any VN105 and v3n38? I better go read where you have already been, it all looks good. Thanks again.
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Grantness
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Re: VV N350 loads

Post by Grantness » 07 May 2009, 21:04

Yep, tested N105. Results were mixed. I think things started to get weird when I REALLY started to compress the loads. I still need to try it w/ the 53gr matchkings. VV3n38 is next on my list. Venry is definately onto something with that stuff...

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Re: VV N350 loads

Post by apache » 08 May 2009, 05:15

I also want to try the 3n38 and have had some on order for over a month. On another note.. walked into my local gun dealer yesterday and there were primers on the shelf. I nearly fell over. Hope that is a sign things may loosen up a bit.. or that the horders have run out of budget.
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Re: VV N350 loads

Post by f3rr37 » 08 May 2009, 08:22

Did you buy them all?

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Re: VV N350 loads

Post by apache » 08 May 2009, 10:05

I wish I could have. There were only 2 1k boxes of small rifle, and I got there about the same time as another guy.. so we each got one.. I did get some large rife and small pistol as well. Hope that will hold me for another month. Just the sight of seeing inventory on the shelves was awesome.
But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever.
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Grantness
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Re: VV N350 loads

Post by Grantness » 08 May 2009, 11:06

You load 1,000 rounds in a month?

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Re: VV N350 loads

Post by JB43 » 10 May 2009, 11:49

Grantness,

The results you are posting are from the pistol aren't they?

I haven't gotten my order of VV N350, but was thinking that since I will be shooting the PS90 w/ 16"" bbl. maybe the slower 3N38 might be a better choice, and develop higher velocities. Maybe someone is already working in this direction.

I'm new to the 5.7, but it seems to me that FN could have developed two versions of their ammo - one for the pistol and one tailored for the 16" rifle.

Jim

Grantness
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Re: VV N350 loads

Post by Grantness » 10 May 2009, 12:08

All of the loads I have ever posted are out of my FsN.

I think the reason they developeded the FsN was to have a companion weapon to the P90 which can share the same ammo. Hell, I'd be happy if they were cranking out ANY ammo besides the SS197.

3n38 shows up right next to N350 on most burn rate charts. Some charts have the N350 faster than 3N38 and others have it slower than 3N38. Burn rates are not absolute. Sometimes adjacent powders switch places depending on what caliber cartridge they are used in. Needless to say, these two are very close. Furthermore, I dont really think that you can say one powder is going to work better than another (in a longer barrel) based on burn rate alone. Now if 3N38 works better than N350 out of the pistol, then It'd prob be safe to say 3N38 works better in the P90 than N350. I havnt seen any one post about a slower powder being better than a faster powder out of the PS90 that wasnt also better out of the FsN. I dunno, it might be possible :?:

Right now, the only person to post results w/ 3N38 is Venry. The one chronographed load that he posted was an exact match to the SS197. He wasnt trying to push the powder to its limits; he was simply looking for a powder that yields good performance and accuracy (and he seemed pleased w/ the results). So, until someone starts working up max loads w/ the 3N38 there's no way to tell if it will be any better than the N350. I hope so.

If you are looking for a slow powder, there are others out there (like HS7 and Acc#7) that are already well-documented w/ lots of loads.

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Re: VV N350 loads

Post by Grantness » 31 May 2009, 14:39

VV N350

40gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. Trim: 1.135" OAL: 1.580" Winchester Small Pistol Magnum (WSPM) Primers

5.9gr: 1810 fps max: 1827 fps
6.0gr: 1840 fps N=2
6.1gr: 1834.75 fps max: 1844 fps
6.2gr: 1850 fps
6.3gr: 1873 fps
6.4gr: 1880 fps
6.5gr: 1881fps N=1

Not much incremental increase in velocity as you can see. Velocities were kinda all over the place. Didnt calculate SD, but its large. I noticed some flattened primers up at 6.4-6.5gr. A little extrusion around the firing pin....but still havent reached the max (close though). No dented case necks. Interestingly...from 6.3 onwards, empties were ejecting almost straight forward.

I used magnum pistol primers cause I figured they might work better w/ the extruded powder. Velocities for 5.9 and 6.0 were slightly lower than last time, but I didnt make my sample size very big for those two this time since I'd already shot those loads w/ the CCI 400s. These WSPM primers were silver not gold. Im not sure if there is any difference.

28gr SS195 projectile. Trim: 1.135" OAL: 1.580" Winchester Small Pistol Magnum (WSPM) Primers
6.5gr: 2133 N=1
6.6gr: 2129fps
6.7gr: 2175 fps
6.8gr: 2200 fps

Nowhere near the max yet. As I suspected, N350 is doing well w/ the lighter bullets. Unfortunately, I only threw together a small spread w/ the SS195 as almost an afterthought. Its gonna take another trip to determine the max. Again, SD prob quite high.

Grantness
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Re: VV N350 loads

Post by Grantness » 06 Jun 2009, 12:09

28gr SS195 Bullet. Trim: 1.135" OAL: 1.580" Primer: CCI 400

6.9c gr: 2151.2 fps
7.0c gr: 2184 fps
7.1c gr: 2210 fps
7.2c gr: 2203 fps :?:
7.3c gr: 2235 fps
7.4c gr: 2242 fps
7.5c gr: 2275 fps Max: 2287 fps

No signs of overpressure on any of these loads. Once I got over 7gr it became nearly impossible to catch the cases w/ my brass catcher because they were ejecting almost straight forwards. I was still able to tell which ones I had just fired by picking them up and feeling if they were hot. Not much shoulder movement. Primers looked fine.

To get the best out of this powder, it'd prob be a good idea to crimp or glue the rounds. I suspect that would improve consistency and squeeze 50-100fps more velocity out of them. It'd be impractical to charge much higher than 7.5gr (unless you increase trim to ~1.140"). Loads were highly compressed w/ the long SS195 bullet. Shorter, light bullets like the 30gr Berger, 30&35gr Vmax, 34gr Dogtown, and 36gr Sinterfires and Varmint Grenades might be good choices for this powder.

Looks like the Small Pistol Magnum Primers I used last time did make a difference after all :?:

Grantness
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Re: VV N350 loads

Post by Grantness » 04 Jul 2009, 20:47

I took some 45gr Sinterfires (@ OAL: 1.560" to reduce case capacity) from 4.7gr down to 3.8gr this evening (the closest reference I had was 5.3gr w/ a 40gr Nosler @ 1690fps). I know you're thinking, why a 45gr bullet? Well, Sinterfires are very long for their weights and correspondingly have quite a bit of bearing surface. This, along with other factors makes them slower than most jacketed bullets of the same weight. VVN350 has quite a large volume per grain (.0977gr/cm^3 off the top of my head) compared to True Blue (.06838gr/cm^3). Its also a single base extruded powder, which should mean it burns more easily. I figured, I'd see if I could make a subsonic round w/ it. No chorno as it was night time; I was just checking for functionality. All rounds cycled. No bullet jams (checked after each shot). Cases were extremely clean w/ little shoulder movement. My barrel was very clean as well...a good sign!

The primers on 4.7 down to about 4.2 looked normal. At 4.1gr down to 3.8gr the firing pin mark began to look very small, dark, and deep. Not the big deep craters you see w/ over-max loads, more like pinpoint and black....but they werent punctured as far as I could tell. This is my first time experimenting w/ subsonics, is this a bad sign? Or should I be more concerned with things like dented case necks and extra recoil (neither of which occured). I'll post pics of the primers when I get a chance....and chrono these next time I get to the range.

At night it was very easy to see the difference in muzzle flash between normal loads and the slower loads I was testing. I couldnt tell whether it went subsonic or not at 3.8gr cause of the earplugs and the fireworks going off in the background. Im guessing prob not (maybe), but its getting close.

Perhaps VVN310 or 320 would be better, but Im just going w/ what Ive got.

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Re: VV N350 loads

Post by 1moreaug » 05 Jul 2009, 19:24

I am going to have to find someone around here that has that VV powder. You have a ton of data that I want to try but no one around here sells Vitavitorui (sp?)_

Grantness
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Re: VV N350 loads

Post by Grantness » 31 May 2010, 11:59

Last night I could hear that the local pack of coyotes is back in my area.... so I got the urge to work on some subsonic loads :evil:

Altitude: ~5000ft Temperature: ~60 F

VV N350 45gr SinterFire Frangible Bullet, CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer, Trim: 1.135" OAL: 1.589" *note* I had to flare the case mouths slightly to accept the fb sinterfires.

FsN:
3.9gr: 1340 fps n=1
3.7gr: 1217 fps n=1
3.5gr: 1170 fps n=1
3.4gr: 1092 fps n=1
3.3gr: 1042 fps n=1
3.2gr: 1008 fps n=1

18.5" T/C Custom Shop Contender

3.9gr: 1656 fps n=1
3.7gr: 1550 fps n=1
3.5gr: 1481 fps n=1
3.1gr: 1297 fps n=1

All rounds cycled smoothly out of the FiveseveN. Cases were clean, no smoke. Primers had pin-point cratering....wasn't concerning at any point.

I suppose I will take the loads down a bit further until I can possibly get the Contender to go subsonic.

Grantness
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Re: VV N350 loads

Post by Grantness » 09 Jun 2010, 07:42

Did some more testing yesterday and got the rifle loads to go subsonic.

VVN350. 45gr SinterFire frangible bullet. CCI 500 Small Pistol Primer. Trim: 1.135" OAL: 1.590"

2.8gr: 1170 fps
2.8gr: 1223 fps

2.7gr: 1130 fps
2.7gr: 1130 fps
2.7gr: 1142 fps

2.6gr: 1056 fps
2.6gr: 1054 fps

I tested the 2.8gr load in the FsN and got an average of ~750fps. The action cycled smoothly w/o any problems.

Just for reference... Speed of sound at various temperatures (roughly):

32 F: 1086 fps
40 F: 1095 fps
50 F: 1106 fps
60 F: 1117 fps
65 F: 1122 fps
70 F: 1128 fps
80 F: 1138 fps
90 F: 1149 fps
100 F: 1159 fps

Some of the case necks on the 2.7gr & 2.6gr rifle loads were a little bit dirty, but nothing significant.

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