PTR-91

AN_OLD_LADY · Post by **AN_OLD_LADY** » 06 Dec 2009, 22:38

I had a CAI CETME sitting on the counter ready to buy, when a voice inside my head said, "there is plenty of time, go home and research.." Well, I'm glad I did because I've read countless horror stories... That's the background to my question.

I decided that I want a detachable box magazine fed, semi-automatic 7.62 NATO (.308 win) rifle. I've always admired the G3 platform and found the above CETME at a local gun shop for $629, (they even had a crappy FAL clone too). Anyway, after my digging on the interwebs, I discovered the PTR-91. Does anyone here own one? What do you think of it? Pros/Cons of the .308 cartridge? Ect. Ect.

From my weeks worth of researching, I'm pretty sure I'm going to purchase one in the beginning of next year. Unless somebody here changes my mind... and please, try.

Post by **MrSlippyFist** » 07 Dec 2009, 08:16

308 is a good round. Happy medium between 5.56 and 30.06. You can have a precision rifle good out to 1000 meters, and that same rifle can double as a CQB weapon with the right stock (like a Sage EBR on an M1A)

ChuckD · Post by **ChuckD** » 07 Dec 2009, 09:32

I had a Springfield SAR-8 (G3 clone). I enjoyed it, but I originally wanted an AR when I purchased it.
Never had any problems with mine. They're good weapons. PTR makes a quality weapon from my understandings. If you plan on reloading your brass, I will suggest a port buffer so you're actually able to do so.
I've since moved on and got into the AR world. Part of me wishes I still had it, but part of me knows I can barely afford 5.56, much less 7.62x51.

kamo · Post by **kamo** » 07 Dec 2009, 15:43

every PTR91 I've handled has been pretty solid. Since they are built on hk machinery and to specs you can pretty much put hk91, msg90, and even PSG-1 parts if your wallet is deep enough. Don't expect sub moa but the PTR91 is on my shortlist of things next on my list, permission from the wife pending.

CDNN has the best prices ive seen.

as far as trigger work, this seems to be the best http://www.williamstriggers.com/page5.html#WTSG1set" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and

http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/home.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vortec MAX · Post by **Vortec MAX** » 07 Dec 2009, 18:53

My dad has a decked out PTR-91 that he is looking to sell. He has all the best parts on it (including the port buffer). He spent several years putting it together from the best of the best. Now he says he has too many guns and wants to sell that one.

He showed me an article in Shotgun News or something similar that talked about the PTR-91. In the article, they claim the H&K technicians admit the PTR-91 is a better weapon than the H&K ever was. The article is current, so you should look for it.

Mike

Post by **blueorison** » 07 Dec 2009, 21:46

:ttiwwp:

kamo · Post by **kamo** » 08 Dec 2009, 09:00

Vortec MAX wrote:My dad has a decked out PTR-91 that he is looking to sell. He has all the best parts on it (including the port buffer). He spent several years putting it together from the best of the best. Now he says he has too many guns and wants to sell that one.

He showed me an article in Shotgun News or something similar that talked about the PTR-91. In the article, they claim the H&K technicians admit the PTR-91 is a better weapon than the H&K ever was. The article is current, so you should look for it.

Mike

I've heard that too. For the price of a HK91 you can get a PTR91 and some goodies.

I've heard that these like guns really beat up brass so reloading isn't the best.

Vortec MAX · Post by **Vortec MAX** » 08 Dec 2009, 09:06

kamo wrote: I've heard that these like guns really beat up brass so reloading isn't the best.

The port buffer prevents damage to the brass. My dad's PTR-91 has one installed on it.

I would have to work with my dad to get some pics. He is serious about selling it.

Mike

Sniperjoe · Post by **Sniperjoe** » 08 Dec 2009, 11:07

wow, u beat me to it lol, i was about to post a topic about the PTR as well, after doing alot of reserch im pritty sure that this is what im going to get myself for xmas this year, ive seen em for like 1,000 dollars, you guys ever seen em for lower??

kamo · Post by **kamo** » 08 Dec 2009, 19:28

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

is the cheapest I've seen on a consistent basis.

edit: here is the page out of cdnn's page.

Vortec MAX · Post by **Vortec MAX** » 09 Dec 2009, 06:44

I doubt my dad would sell his for that. Of course his has been sent in to get an upgraded barrel and trigger job, has upgraded furniture, sights, and much more. I will have to get the details from him.

Mike

Sniperjoe · Post by **Sniperjoe** » 09 Dec 2009, 18:30

Ive pritty much made up my mind that il be getting this rifle, so max whenever you get the price, let me know

A cool project for the future would be converting it into a PSG-1, is that possible?

SSBiggun · Post by **SSBiggun** » 09 Dec 2009, 18:43

A better option for the $ would be to get the PRS stock and set it up as an MSG-90 clone. The PTR 91's are an excellent rifle for the cost and I shot a buddy's that would group @1.5" at 100 yds with GMM 168's. I currently own a CAI CETME and would NOT recommend it to anyone else. They are the bottom of the bucket. Warped and mis-shapen magwell, ground bolt, epoxy paint splatter into the receiver caused slow bolt cycling. With the CETME the safety goes the wrong way i.e. up to fire.
I spent a lot of time getting it to work for not much improvement .

Vortec MAX · Post by **Vortec MAX** » 09 Dec 2009, 22:12

I talked to my dad a bit tonight and got some info on his PTR. His is still new (never fired), but heavily modified. He says he has over 2500 into it, so I think he is going to want close to that out of it. Bare naked new PTRs are around 1000 bucks, but won't have all the goodies he has. He is making me a list of stuff he has on it, but I can remember a few of the things he talked about.

He talked about a Williams trigger job, heavy barrel, German HK Furniture, HK 1200 meter sights, two-stage heavy buffer, HK scope mount, and laser cut ventilated HK handguards with HK bipod. I can't remember all the stuff, so I will have to wait for his list.

He is also wanting to sell a bunch of magazines and 2,300 rounds of ammo made by various manufacturers.

I will keep you updated and hopefully get some pics.

Mike

Vortec MAX · Post by **Vortec MAX** » 10 Dec 2009, 07:56

OK, my dad e-mailed me the specs on his PTR-91. They are as follows:

Rifle: PTR91 (New) $1,000
Scope Mount. Used German Schubrichtung $165
Williams Trigger Job W/3 U.S. Parts Below $100
PTR New U.S. Parts: Trigger, Sear, Hammer $79
HK 91 New Carry Handle & Port Buffer $80
HK 91 Like New Two Stage Heavy Buffer $175
HK 21 New German Heavy Rubber Butt Pad $75
HK 21 New Rear 1200 Meter Sight $225
PTR New U.S. Made A2 Rear Stock $50
HK 91 Like New Wide Front Hand Guard $75
Laser Cut Ventilated Job On Hand Guard $65
HK 91 Used Light Steel Bipod $75
Hk 91 New Cleaning Kit $12
Hk 91 Used Leather Sling $10
HK 91 New 5: 20 Round Steel Magazines $100
HK 91 New 10: 20 Round Alloy Magazines $100
HK 91 Used Near New 11: 20 Round Magazines $55

Total of $2441 invested (at prices from years gone by).

He says the PTR is two parts in the clear on parts count (using German magazines). He would like to get $2400 for it. If anyone is interested, let me know. I am still going to try and take pictures of it to post here.

He also detailed his ammo. He has:

800 Rnds FNM Portuguese
540 Rnds BF head stamp (not sure what this is)
20 Rnds South African
360 Rnds Israeli IMI (TZ headstamp)
540 Rnds RG (United Kingdom)
310 Rnds WRA (American)
2570 ........... Total

He might make someone a sweet deal if the ammo and rifle were purchased as a package. He won't sell the ammo unless the sells the rifle.

Mike

kamo · Post by **kamo** » 10 Dec 2009, 19:14

Sniperjoe wrote: A cool project for the future would be converting it into a PSG-1, is that possible?

yes you can but it's expensive. look into either Murray Urbach or Jayson @ IGF.

Sniperjoe · Post by **Sniperjoe** » 10 Dec 2009, 19:28

kamo wrote:
Sniperjoe wrote: A cool project for the future would be converting it into a PSG-1, is that possible?
yes you can but it's expensive. look into either Murray Urbach or Jayson @ IGF.

yea, i realize that, for just the compleat trigger grouping its $800, you can practicly get another PTR for that money, the barrels like $500, its alot of money for sure lol

if i got the rifle and decided to do a conversion it would be done VERY slowly :laugh:

thats what i like about conversions, you can save up, buy certain parts and than save some more to buy more parts lol

heres another question ive ben trying to figure out, what exactly is the difference between a G3 and a PSG-1??? like i understand that the trigger, stock, etc. is different, but is their anything thats different about it in its reciver or anything major like that???

kamo · Post by **kamo** » 10 Dec 2009, 19:52

http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/viewCate ... ategory=10" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.hkspecialiststore.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

has parts.

kamo · Post by **kamo** » 10 Dec 2009, 19:59

Sniperjoe wrote:
kamo wrote:
Sniperjoe wrote: heres another question ive ben trying to figure out, what exactly is the difference between a G3 and a PSG-1??? like i understand that the trigger, stock, etc. is different, but is their anything thats different about it in its reciver or anything major like that???

I think there are some internal differences. On the links i just provided those parts are $$$$$$.

The PSG-1 has always been the rifle I want if I could only have one. And like you said the best thing is being able to buy the parts over time. THe last time I priced everything out minus labor for some of the work was around $5000-$6000. Of course prices vary and sometimes you find some for lower. I hear the best barrel out there is an urbach barrel that is built to spec. From all that i've heard in the hk world, murray urbach is the man when it comes to best work on these types but turnaround is very slow. I've seen some conversions done by Jayson @ IGF and heard a lot of good things and even exchanged emails a couple of years ago when I was picking up a PTR91 from a dealer in Florida that fell through (wells fargo screwed it up... long story).

THe best bet is to get the complete trigger group which has the grip, trigger, and everything. From there you still have a working rifle. Next would logically be the stock. I've been partial on the whole forward assist, but if you want a true clone you got to get that done. I saw a clone where the guy had a barrel turned to spec but was made into a 30" and had a rail welded to the top of the receiver that almost resembled a flattop ar.

Rover · Post by **Rover** » 11 Dec 2009, 08:02

This is pretty funny. I logged on to talk about my new 308 and there it is at the top of the page.

They're generally considered more accurate than the HK.

ChuckD · Post by **ChuckD** » 11 Dec 2009, 11:47

I do recall its VERY tough to find wood stocks for the heavy buffer.

I bought a 2pack of stocks from cheaperthangoldflakes and spent 3 hours modifying it to hold the larger buffer.

This is because I didn't know I had the heavy buffer and read that the cetme wood would only require "slight" modification.
I later purchased real HK wood with a light buffer for 30 bucks. A Steal in my opinion.

fooschnickens · Post by **fooschnickens** » 12 Dec 2009, 00:55

You could always just buy my FNAR. Sure it can't be full auto, but it is accurate out of the box and well under what most decked out PTR clones go for.

Sniperjoe · Post by **Sniperjoe** » 12 Dec 2009, 07:10

fooschnickens wrote:You could always just buy my FNAR. Sure it can't be full auto, but it is accurate out of the box and well under what most decked out PTR clones go for.

unfortunatly FA means nothing to me, how much?

fooschnickens · Post by **fooschnickens** » 12 Dec 2009, 12:01

Sniperjoe wrote:
fooschnickens wrote:You could always just buy my FNAR. Sure it can't be full auto, but it is accurate out of the box and well under what most decked out PTR clones go for.
unfortunatly FA means nothing to me, how much?

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=6104" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'll even honor the special pricing. :thumb:

Sniperjoe · Post by **Sniperjoe** » 12 Dec 2009, 23:14

Wow nice rifle, unfortunatly i'm in no position to buy as of yet, and I can't local pick up cause I live to far :laugh: , but good luck with it :thumb:

fooschnickens · Post by **fooschnickens** » 14 Dec 2009, 01:20

It's going good so far. There's on guy in GA bidding on it right now, so I hope he wins it to save me some paperwork at the very least :laugh:

Sniperjoe · Post by **Sniperjoe** » 14 Dec 2009, 06:25

theres alot of paperwork when dealing with shipping a gun out of state?

Post by **Cyberfly** » 14 Dec 2009, 07:02

Nope. Just get a copy of the receiving FFL, stuff it all in a box and send it out via UPS.

Vortec MAX · Post by **Vortec MAX** » 14 Dec 2009, 09:17

Talked to my dad about the price on his PTR. He agreed to sell it for 2,000 plus shipping. If the person who buys the rifle also wants the ammo, he'll sell it for 1,000 plus shipping. Please note that shipping on that much ammo might be fairly expensive since it weighs about 200 pounds. It would probably have to ship in several packages.

If anyone is interested, let me know.

Mike

tombirdman · Post by **tombirdman** » 06 Feb 2010, 15:11

AN_OLD_LADY wrote:I had a CAI CETME sitting on the counter ready to buy, when a voice inside my head said, "there is plenty of time, go home and research.." Well, I'm glad I did because I've read countless horror stories... That's the background to my question.

I decided that I want a detachable box magazine fed, semi-automatic 7.62 NATO (.308 win) rifle. I've always admired the G3 platform and found the above CETME at a local gun shop for $629, (they even had a crappy FAL clone too). Anyway, after my digging on the interwebs, I discovered the PTR-91. Does anyone here own one? What do you think of it? Pros/Cons of the .308 cartridge? Ect. Ect.

From my weeks worth of researching, I'm pretty sure I'm going to purchase one in the beginning of next year. Unless somebody here changes my mind... and please, try.

.

I have a Century Cetme with wood stocks. Pretty crude but have about $350.00 in it,used-little. Goes bang - what can I say. It is fairly accurate and dependable. I've heard others say they were'nt so I dont know but for the price I couldn't pass it up. Mine is in the serial no range of { C2637X }. Can anyone give me an idea about the gun.

I have had HK91s and 93s and liked them, although I liked my FALs better. Knocked out a front window of my car
with brass while firing out of the car window. Not suppose to do that but I did it anyway.

Just because I haven't had trouble doesn't mean they are a well made gun.

AN_OLD_LADY · Post by **AN_OLD_LADY** » 06 Feb 2010, 22:39

A POEM TO MY NEW BEST FRIEND

Just came back from the big city
I got my self a gun, oh so pretty
She's long, black, and heavy, (no inapropriateness intended)
And when I hold her, she's rock steady,
I could continue with my lengthy list,
Dang! I wish women were more like this! (no offense to females)
---------

All meant in good spirits of course!
After months of searching, and refusing to purchase online I found a nice "A" s/n JLD Inc. PTR-91 KFM4
It's got a tapco 6 position M4 style retractable stock. It's got 3 Rail Interface System attachments on the fore-grip. 16" BBl
So excited to shoot it tomorrow after church!!!
Sorry, VortecMax, but I didn't want to have it mailed to an FFl and all that jazz when my hopes to find one locally paid off.

I paid $1,242 for the Rifle, 2x 20rd DBM's, and 50 'no-brand' 150gr. FMJ bullets.

I have to say, this is the first gun to make me feel like a moron when I tried to strip it down. (not so much the stripping as the putting back together...) I'll post how it works in 20 degree F weather later next week after some shooting.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 09 Dec 2010, 21:00

Found this thread after I posted in the newest addition thread, oops

Anyway, this just got in today.
PTR-91 Super Sniper. .308 caliber, 20" bull barrel, Millet 4-16x50 scope, 50rd drum

Just a little too much scope for this rifle, it sits too far back. But I can't move the scope any more forward, it will prevent the cocking handle from locking open or even reaching the full rearward position.
The scope has an illuminated mildot reticle (green) with variable brightness like the REMT3 - 11 settings even (1 is for night vision) It is certainly nice, I would like to keep it but if it gives me scope eye then its gotta go. :skep:

Vortec MAX · Post by **Vortec MAX** » 09 Dec 2010, 21:31

That thing is SERIOUSLY sweet!

Mike

SSBiggun · Post by **SSBiggun** » 13 Dec 2010, 20:18

Rapier, New addition to the safe thread is a good place too.When I started that thread it was for moments like this:-) You need to post when you find out what she likes ammo wise.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 14 Dec 2010, 22:43

Its official - I don't like the trigger. It would good for a combat rifle but not for long range. I am going to contact Williams but would like to know about other options as well. Forget the PSG-1 trigger - IF you can find them, they're about $1,000. Anything else?

Just for giggles I put the Viridian X5L on it under the barrel. The light wont do any good but I want to see how far the laser goes :laugh: Might be cool and it might even get more use. With no holster for it, I am not using when I carry anyway

Post by **Rapier1772** » 18 Dec 2010, 16:21

WAH! I finally fired the new rifle today. Forget reloading the brass :wall:

All of the brass was dented and the fluted chamber is pretty cruel as well. Well, I guess I can just save the brass for recycling & maybe offset some of the cost for new ammo that way?

On the good side though: it gets people's attention

With both looks and its bark. I took it to the indoor range since it was snowing kinda hard. I made no attempt to hide it but apparently they didn't see me bring it in. I had already talked to them about the Dan Wesson & they only though I was shooting the 10mm. After my 3rd shot, the asst manager came in & asked what the hell I was shooting. Apparently they could feel it in the floor, it is very loud :p One of the other guys shooting said the muzzle flash was about 18" long. I know the flash filled the scope with every shot. Not sure how to fit that thing with a muzzle break, do those clamp on? I don't need it to divert the recoil, just the muzzle flash.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 21 May 2011, 12:15

I am considering what tweaks to make to the rifle. I have already put a port buffer on so I can keep the brass for reloading.
Buttstock monopod - as you can see in the pics, it is not equipped with anything of the sort. I was thinking I might be able to drill & tap some holes & stick one of my extra rails on it (several monopods mount to rails) but that's a lot of recoil & not sure how it would hold up. Anyone have experience doing this & can provide some pointers?
Muzzle brake - a local shop is willing to turn down the barrel & thread it. But what is a good muzzle brake for a .308? The barrel must be turned & threaded anyway so thread size doesn't matter. The main goal is that I do not want the muzzle flash filling up the scope. But since I have to do the thing for the buttstock monopod, minimizing recoil would also be a good idea. I know someone who uses a surefire & loves it but I think it also kind of ruined the looks of his rifle; I know they also make other models which I would consider. Anyone have certain preferences?

fooschnickens · Post by **fooschnickens** » 22 May 2011, 20:58

Rapier1772 wrote: On the good side though: it gets people's attention With both looks and its bark. I took it to the indoor range since it was snowing kinda hard. I made no attempt to hide it but apparently they didn't see me bring it in. I had already talked to them about the Dan Wesson & they only though I was shooting the 10mm. After my 3rd shot, the asst manager came in & asked what the hell I was shooting. Apparently they could feel it in the floor, it is very loud :p One of the other guys shooting said the muzzle flash was about 18" long. I know the flash filled the scope with every shot. Not sure how to fit that thing with a muzzle break, do those clamp on? I don't need it to divert the recoil, just the muzzle flash.

pfffff, what you need is one of these:

If you got it, flaunt it! I'm considering getting one of their .30 cal versions to stick on the SKS since the fireball isn't big enough already :laugh:

TheOtherDave · Post by **TheOtherDave** » 21 Aug 2011, 03:16

Rapier1772 wrote:One of the other guys shooting said the muzzle flash was about 18" long. I know the flash filled the scope with every shot. Not sure how to fit that thing with a muzzle break, do those clamp on? I don't need it to divert the recoil, just the muzzle flash.

If you've changed your mind and want kinda the opposite effect, Cabela's has .308 tracer ammo on sale. Or at least they did a few days ago.

(Thread necro, I know... but you've got no one to blame but yourself :p )

Post by **Rapier1772** » 21 Aug 2011, 07:32

Necro-thread? That's a new one

I don't blame people for resurrecting old threads - its better than making new ones which cover the same topic & having to link or merge them.

No, I haven't changed my mind. I need the muzzle flash out of my scope & I hope that surefire will work cuz I ordered it

I guess I could use those tracers to see where I am hitting at extended ranges (if they have the same flight characteristics) :ponder:

Unfortunately, the nearest Cabela's is about 200 miles away :wall:

Post by **panzermk2** » 21 Aug 2011, 11:22

Rapier1772 wrote:Necro-thread? That's a new one I don't blame people for resurrecting old threads - its better than making new ones which cover the same topic & having to link or merge them.

No, I haven't changed my mind. I need the muzzle flash out of my scope & I hope that surefire will work cuz I ordered it
I guess I could use those tracers to see where I am hitting at extended ranges (if they have the same flight characteristics) :ponder:

Unfortunately, the nearest Cabela's is about 200 miles away :wall:

They do have an online store.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 22 Dec 2011, 00:24

Its not that important to me. If I was near a Cabela's or going to Salt Lick City, I would get box or two. As is, meh - I'll just keep practicing at 50-400yd as I can see where those are going without tracer rounds.

nrv216 · Post by **nrv216** » 12 Mar 2012, 18:02

Well in an effort to keep the ptr-91 thread count down to one, I am resurrecting the dead! I have the ptr-91 msg rifle and would like to use a single point sling with it (I just like 1 point slings). I am honestly thinking about just putting a heavy duty zip-tie around the thinnest point of the stock and using it to attach my favorite one pointer (it has an hk style clip).

Do you think a heavy duty zip-tie will be durable enough? Any other suggestions?

Rapier, I know you've got the same rifle. What are you using in terms of a sling and do you have any input?

Thank you all in advance!

nrv216

Post by **Rapier1772** » 12 Mar 2012, 19:06

Mine doesn't have a sling yet. I am still looking (half-heartedly) for one I like. But I was going to go with a 2 point sling when I did. I'm too cheap to just order it, I just look around at stores when I remember to look...

Post by **blueorison** » 12 Mar 2012, 20:58

nrv216 wrote:Well in an effort to keep the ptr-91 thread count down to one, I am resurrecting the dead! I have the ptr-91 msg rifle and would like to use a single point sling with it (I just like 1 point slings). I am honestly thinking about just putting a heavy duty zip-tie around the thinnest point of the stock and using it to attach my favorite one pointer (it has an hk style clip).

Do you think a heavy duty zip-tie will be durable enough? Any other suggestions?

Rapier, I know you've got the same rifle. What are you using in terms of a sling and do you have any input?

Thank you all in advance!

nrv216

Zip ties, around points, are not as mobile and when they stick, they will wear very quickly. Try paracord for a low-cost alternative, or a combination of both.

nrv216 · Post by **nrv216** » 13 Mar 2012, 09:33

Good idea Blue! Thanks.

nrv216

Post by **Rapier1772** » 13 Mar 2012, 11:18

Just got rifle back from local smithy. Had the barrel turned down & muzzle brake installed. OAL of the rifle is now 44". BTW, muzzle brake is the Surefire 211C

Will try it out this weekend

Vortec MAX · Post by **Vortec MAX** » 16 Mar 2012, 14:35

OOH that's purdy!

Mike

Post by **Rapier1772** » 02 May 2012, 13:59

Sent my trigger off to Williams Trigger Specialties & just got it back.
Just from fiddling with it here, big improvement.
From the factory 8lb (according to them) to 5 pounds "normal" shooting & less than half the travel length.
"Set" mode is 2.5lb & virtually no travel length.

Now to load up some ammo for testing.
The school of cosmetology has graciously donated one of they hair cutting practice heads for this purpose. :laugh: We were thinking cranberry jello & tannerite on the inside

Post by **Rapier1772** » 06 May 2012, 15:30

I went out & tested the new trigger, accidentally bump fired it once - oops. At least I hope that was bump fire... :huh: 2nd shot went WAY high but luckily it still hit the backstop.

Trigger is officially much improved!

Weird thing is, I sighted it for my 150gr VMax reloads. But factory 150gr FMJ were hitting 4" low at 100yd. WTF? I understand a shift but that much?

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