VERY IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT-PLEASE READ

[Grantness]

Sorry to hear about this ordeal Lisa. I hope this all gets resolved ASAP.

It doesn't seem out of the realm of possibilities that someone at GunPal may be siphoning funds for personal use or running something akin to a ponzi scheme. Whatever the case may be, I consider myself lucky that I've never used them for any transactions.

[panzermk2wife]

Thanks guys

[panzermk2wife]

Okay, there seems to be some confusion with the emails I am sending out

So I will clarify in the next 2 postings

[panzermk2wife]

It gives the options below "Your Current order is as follows"

For those who we have not processed yet are getting the following email

As you know we were using GPal to process our credit card orders. Well this is no longer the case. We, along with hundreds of other people have been having serious issues with getting our money from them. We at Elite Ammunition have posted an announcement on the forum which I urge you to read viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8893" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; that goes into detail of the serious issues we have been having.

Your Order #

Your Current order is as follows:

Jay & I have a friend whom Jay has known for nearly 20 years who has a family run Print Shop and has offered to let us run our credit card orders through their company for the time being until we get everything sorted out. The name of the Print Shop is Mobile Print Inc. http://www.mobile-print.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will be going to their shop on Monday to start processing these orders. As our customers we are offer 2 options. If you would rather me not run your card please send me an email at [email protected] before Monday and let me know you would rather pay by check or money order. Please make sure you put your order number somewhere on the check or money order so I know the proper account to mark paid.

[panzermk2wife]

For those whose orders have been processed using GPal and explaining that GPal has yet to release the funds to us and the delay it is causing

As you know we were using GPal to process our credit card orders. Well this is no longer the case. We, along with hundreds of other people have been having serious issues with getting our money from them. We at Elite Ammunition have posted an announcement on the forum which I urge you to read viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8893" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; that goes into detail of the serious issues we have been having.

Your Order #

Your Current order is as follows:


Yes, your orders have been processed by me via GPal. Unfortunately they charged the credit cards but have yet to release the funds. Because of this we have not been able to buy supplies to make the products. And for those who have purchased In Stock Items we can’t ship them because the FedEx account is frozen because we can’t pay them. And we wanted to make sure YOU know your orders will be filled.

[panzermk2wife]

Okay I am done for the evening I will pick up where I left on our list later today. My brain needs a break

Have a good one

[panzermk2wife]

Okay, I think I contacted everyone.

If I didn't I apologize in advance. Shoot me an email if you didn't.

For those we did not process yet and have yet to be responded to I have sent pm's via the forum if you are a member and tracked those down who have a Facebook page who are not.

For those who have not responded by by late this evening Jay will contact you by phone on Monday

[panzermk2wife]

Well I am headed out the door to catch the train now to go process orders so I will be MIA today.

Jay will be holding down the Fort. Although if you try to call please leave a message if he doesn't answer, he will be calling customers who have yet to respond to the emails I sent out this weekend.

[panzermk2wife]

Coming up 30 days on the current request of funds and still no money from GPal.

This has caused us to be down so far for 6 weeks which really pissed me off. Luckily I went to our friend's shop on Monday and ran our orders. They should be cutting me a check in the next day or so. Gee who would of thought a bank releasing the funds within 72 hours.....hmmmmmmmmm

Although I will have to wait a couple of day for it to clear so it will bring me to the middle of next week before I can order supplies (and pray they have them in stock) and then another few days for them to get here before we can pull down and fire up the machines.

So total time down because of the GPal **** will be about 8 weeks if not longer depending on what supplies I can get.

But luckily I spent all day Saturday until about 2 a.m. Sunday & all day on Sunday sending out emails explaining the situation and Jay following up on the phone Monday.

[panzermk2wife]

Well tomorrow marks 30 days and have yet to receive the funds from GPal :facepalm:

But I have some good news.....
Our buddies who let us use their machine this week to process credit card orders have had the funds clear their bank account and a check is being cut and I will be picking it up tonight.

BUT......

I have to wait for the funds to clear our account before I can order supplies and pray they have them all in stock, wait for them to be delivered, all the ammo will need to be pulled down, then start loading.

So we are looking at about 2 weeks give or take.

[Redemption]

This is what happens when you try and go cheap.
You guys should have also ate the gunpal charges instead of passing them off as sales tax. It's the cost of doing business I guess. Some advice: Get a credit card processor first and foremost. Second Ship more than once a week if you ever want return customers. Maybe you could contact these guys: http://palmettostatearmory.com/ for some advice or at least check out their site. They are a small company and offer top notch service. Good luck.

[panzermk2wife]

Here is some of the explanation on credit card processing as by a friend on another forum


And the tax will no longer be in effect come next week with the exception of Illinois, it will be built into the new price of all our products.

There is a merchant account which is the processing account setup to accept and distribute CC payments. They accept the information from the credit card, use the ACH system (Automated Clearing House) to check the account balance and reserve that purchase amount for the merchant, called the "authorization". The "capture" of funds is the actual "I take the money out of your account". This stuff is nearly instantaneous due to Internet connections. Banks are the hold up here as the money is actually wired in batches via ACH system from bank to bank. So all incoming monies heading to my local Credit Union happen in one huge transfer (say tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, since direct deposit payroll, standard wire transfers, electronic credits and debits are all sent in batches like that. The bank has to internally, but usually automated, route these deposits and debits into the associated proper accounts. If one number is off, it spells disaster.

Now the fees associated with CC processing are not the "standard 3%" like most consumers believe. It's actually closer to 10% factoring overhead of PCI compliance fees and records maintenance. It is very costly for a business to accept CC, not only in standard fees for processing (more later) but compliance fees and rewards card fees.

Quote:
Confusing it even further is that most gun-owners use their credit/debit cards with Midway, Midsouth, Graf, Cabelas, etc etc and never have any issues. So far as most are concerned, Gpal/Paypal is just another credit/debit card service.
Difference there is most of their products are not actual firearms, and they are being shipped to the card holder. This reduces risk of fraud; which is the "risk" CC processors determine for businesses. More on that later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Recluse View Post
Good points and ones I admit I don't fully understand.

1. I don't understand why you are considered a risk, extreme or otherwise, by the banks CC processors use, and the reason(s) I don't understand are for the following:

A. If you are a small business, that means you're not pumping goods out the door at nearly the volume as say a Midway or Midsouth, therefore the "risk" would be proportionately less.


Small businesses are not as reputable as large businesses in terms of revenue, industry stature, and so on. There are small businesses that are very profitable (I know a NFA "class 3" dealer in Wisconsin that's a one man business and does $1.5 million in sales annually in a BAD year.

Quote:
B. I don't understand what the "risk" is in the first place. Either you have the goods to sell and ship or you don't. I don't understand why banks would consider you a risk.
The risk is fraud, which costs the CC companies money and the merchants very little in the long run. The risk is accepting payment for goods or services not rendered or received. In the case of firearms (and other goods like adult entertainment) and ammunition, there must be age verification performed. Taking these sales in person means you will have a physical signature on the CC receipt and can visually verify the ID and age of the person in front of you making the purchase and can verify the goods have been received since it was FTF transaction. This reduces the fraud risk of the transaction. Mail order, even if they mail you a copy of their DL, carry permit, etc unless you lay eyes on the person yourself you are putting the CC company at great risk (and yourself). They are insured for fraud but would rather keep it to a minimum.

Quote:
C.
I've bought plenty of guns and ammo and parts over the past thirty-five plus years and plenty of them have gone on various credit cards during that time. Not once did I ever get a note from the bank or CC issuer cancelling my card because I bought a firearm.
The rules come from the card issuers and the merchant account processors (ie the companies handling the payments) are charged with enforcing the rules for Visa, Mastercard etc with their contract agreements to these card issuers. Generally the processors don't give a **** what you sell. It's if Visa gets wind of it, they can and will bring hell upon the merchant. Not the card holder. It's a "you can buy, but YOU (the business) can't accept" kind of deals.

Quote:
I guess I'm still not getting the whole "anti" thing and how does a CC processor know exactly what a customer bought or a merchant sold? Do you HAVE to declare it in detail, and if so, where is the law allowing that?

There is no law and it's contained in the merchant agreement contracts for the card issuers (available free online from Visa and Mastercard, Discover). Unless the receipt is shown or there is a dispute of the charges, they will never know. But they will ask the business when they sign up with the merchant account.

Quote:
Originally Posted by azcruiser View Post
Still don't see where gun would be the biggest problem for the bank/processing service. Are people winning big court judgement's against firearms retailers ?
It's purely the risk assessment like I stated above. They can't verify the ID unless it's done via in person sales. The official merchant agreement by Visa and MC state firearms and ammunition sales are allowed if done in person, not mail order. Places like Midway, Grafs, etc sell lots of stuff so they could get by with stating they sell gun accessories, not guns or ammo. Unless Visa or MC get bored and check their stuff, they won't know.

Now for the rewards fees. Guess where your "free" miles come from? The merchant. Guess where your 2-5% cashback comes from? The merchant. Guess where your "rewards points" come from? The merchant.

Here's how it works:

There's something called a "discount fee". Sounds good but it's the amount the sale ticket is discounted depending on the card type the cardholder has. This is the "3%" fee many have in their head, but is farther from the truth, overhead aside.

Depending on the type of account the card holder has with the card issuer, Visa, MC, Discover, determines the discount fee. Basic or Silver, Gold, Platinum, and Black.

Non-qualified (Silver) is 3.5%

Mid-qualified (Gold) is 2.6% fee.

Qualified (Platinum) is 2.3% fee.

Reserve (Black/Elite) is 0% fee.

Those fees are discounted from the sale price as the CC processors "take" and the merchant (business) keeps the balance.

The levels vary but some are atrocious for fees. If you want an "average" processing fee, it's closer to 4.25%.

Oh, and if you're not PCI compliant, they will fine you $10,000 and use the ACH method to debit it from your linked bank account that's associated with your merchant account. You can't stop it either, even if it overdraws your account.

Furthermore, if you do online sales and want customers to be able to pay on the website, count on a $70 annual fee for the SSL (Secure Socket Layer) encryption certificate plus a $20+ per month gateway fee. The gateway is the code on your website that allows your server to communicate with the processor and ACH to "run the card". There is a monthly fee to have this, automatically debited from your account.

But wait. There's MORE fees. Every transaction deemed an authorization (check account balance) is a certain fee, like $0.30 per transaction. Each batch you send is $0.30. Each AVS use (Address Verification Service, which checks street number with card holder file) is $0.05.

Wait, I'm not done with fees yet!!! Sit back down.

There is a "processing surcharge" fee which applies to gross sales. Not only do you pay a per transaction "discount" fee but it's also charged again at a higher rate. Think of this as double taxation. They take the "qualified" fee from each transaction, take an authorization fee, plus a batch feel, then another fee at the end of the month for all your sales that month. And if you go over your authorized limit, you get a nice 5% fee on top of that.

So in the end a CC sale ends up costing the business about 10% of the sale. One of the reasons I'm glad I take certified checks or money orders only. No bounced checks and no credit card **** either.

[f3rr37]

This is what happens when you try and go cheap.
You guys should have also ate the gunpal charges instead of passing them off as sales tax. It's the cost of doing business I guess. Some advice: Get a credit card processor first and foremost. Second Ship more than once a week if you ever want return customers. Maybe you could contact these guys: http://palmettostatearmory.com/ for some advice or at least check out their site. They are a small company and offer top notch service. Good luck.

Please don't hassle the forum supporters, they all offer quality products and services and are some of the best suppliers of products and services to our members.

[panzermk2]

This is what happens when you try and go cheap.
You guys should have also ate the gunpal charges instead of passing them off as sales tax. It's the cost of doing business I guess. Some advice: Get a credit card processor first and foremost. Second Ship more than once a week if you ever want return customers. Maybe you could contact these guys: http://palmettostatearmory.com/ for some advice or at least check out their site. They are a small company and offer top notch service. Good luck.

Really? It's not a matter of cheap it's a matter of only a few CCP out there that do Ammunition. If you had a damn clue as to what you where talking about you would know this.

Yes we ship once a week since we are a small company. Know what?

We aren't the only ones that have a weekly pickup, but then again if you had a clue about running a small business you might know that.

We also never "passed" the gunpal fee off as a tax smartass. It was clearly stated on our website that it was a gpal fee but that the website software would not allow us to change the wording. Just like when the rest of the small business world lists a a sale price and then states add 3% if paying be credit card.



OH and about repeat customers about the only non repeat customers we have are ones we black listed from buying our products because they pulled a shady or crooked maneuver during a prior sale.

Maybe you should know WTF your talking about but I can see by your post that's not the case.

You just wanted to start something and you have.

Hope you have a good life, don't let the door slam you on your ass on the way out.

[MrSlippyFist]

Gotta love it when people show up just to tell you how to run your business.