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Isn't a slight escalation in FPS somewhat normal as the chamber and barrel heat up?

Not like that.

I got my new recoil spring in a couple weeks ago and brought it for a test run last week... I'm sorry to say that I was very disappointed. I have never had a failure to feed in that gun even after thousands of rounds without cleaning it. I put the new spring on easy enough, gave the gun a good cleaning, and went out to the hills to shoot. I went through 60 rounds with the new recoil spring and had it jam 3 times. Any suggestions to fixing the problem? I was using some fairly light loads, 40 grain v-max with 6.8 grains of AA7, are the loads too light for the new spring?

Your loads are too light.

It is a Heavy Duty 20 pound spring instead of 18. What made you think it would work with light loads?

HD springs aren't for light target loads.

I can make light duty target springs just like there are for other guns but I do not think the demand is there.

You also should think about cleaning your gun more often.

Shot mine all weekend and it functioned flawlessly....even with blue box ss195.

Correct me if I'm wrong but that light load should be slightly hotter than factory loads, does this recoil spring not work with factory loads? I knew the spring wouldn't work with light loads but I assumed it would at least cycle with the standard factory loads. I typically shoot hotter loads anyway so it's not a huge deal, but it may be something that should be addressed on this little thread if that is the case. I'll be reloading some hotter rounds soon and see how it does.

It also seems like the new spring has a slightly larger outside diameter than the factory spring, the barrel now sits off center in the slide and there is a small gap in between the slide and frame, is this normal? I dont think it's anything more than a cosmetic issue but just making sure.

One more question: Shouldn't the heavier recoil spring increase the life of the brass? The spring should hold the slide in place longer causing less stretching of the neck... right? Just curious.

I typically dont go that many rounds without cleaning my gun, I did shoot a couple thousand without cleaning it one time and was quite impressed that even then the gun functions flawlessly.

Grantness, you mentioned that yours jammed the first few rounds with it, what did you do to fix it?

I've chalked it up to the particular 30rnd magazine I was using. I've had problems with it before. That being said, only the first two or three rounds had problems. If it had something to do with the spring, it worked itself out in a hurry. I agree with Jay: clean up again, and try a stronger load. Western Powders lists 7.0gr of Acc#7 for their minimum load on a 40gr Sierra. Like I said, I had no problems all weekend with even the weakest of factory ammo. ...But I didn't buy the HD spring to see how it handles weak ammo. I intend to explore the other end of the spectrum and find out how much max loads may or may not increase.

That's what I'm planning on doing, but will be slightly disappointed if I cant use target loads with it. On Accurate's website they list 6.8 as the max load, I do acknowledge that it is no where near a heavy load but it should still be hotter than a factory one (should be going just over 1800fps according to data).

I dont see where you're getting this. Im looking at their load tables right now. They list 6.5gr for the Max load for 40gr using Acc #5. For Acc#7 they list 7.7gr as the max load....7.0gr is the MIN. I happen to know that you can go even higher than 7.7gr. I've also found out that the velocity figures they put out are significantly faster than my own results.

Think back... did 6.8gr FEEL like a max load to you?

Look a little bit lower on their data, they have a specific load for the hornady v-max, for some reason they say it creates a lot higher pressure than the other 40 grain you are looking at (45,100 PSI with 7.7 gr vs 48200 PSI with 6.8 gr):
5.7x28 FN
Barrel: 5" ■ Twist: 1-9" ■ Primer: WIN WSR or WSP ■ Bullet Diameter .224"
No.5 35 HDY V-MAX FB 6.0 1,955 6.7 2,100 45,500 1.491
No.5 40 SIE SPH 5.8 1,850 6.5 1,975 45,200 1.456
No.5 45 SIE SPH 5.7 1,740 6.4 1,875 45,400 1.490
No.7 35 HDY V-MAX FB 7.4 2,041 8.2 2,197 45,200 1.491
No.7 40 SIE SPH 7.0 1,896 7.7 2,044 45,100 1.456
No.7 45 SIE SPH 6.7 1,782 7.4 1,913 45,400 1.490
No.5 40 HDY V-MAX 5.1 1,657 5.7 1,875 48,000 1.580
No.5 45 SIE SPT 5.0 1,558 5.6 1,746 47,800 1.580
No.7 40 HDY V-MAX 6.1 1,679 6.8 1,880 48,200 1.580
No.7 45 SIE SPT 5.9 1,568 6.5 1,782 48,300 1.580


I'm not even trying to argue that 6.8gr is a max load, I'm just saying it should be at least comparable to a factory load so I would have assumed that the spring would cycle with it. I agree that the velocity probably isn't what they publish but from what I have seen the factory ss195 doesn't pass 1700fps so even if accurate embellished the data by 200 fps (they publish it at 1880fps) then the two rounds should be pretty comparable. I haven't chrony'ed those loads or anything so I guess it is possible...

My print-out doesn't have any of that, but I cut off the "special notes" because they were either obvious, irrelavant, or just plain wrong. *Want to see just plain wrong? Check out that Lyman manual :lmao:* Ignore what they wrote. If anything, the VMax will do better. Clean it, lube it, try it out with something closer to 7.0gr or greater (if you aren't interested in stronger loads) and see if you get the same problems. I've personally gone a bit over 8gr w/ Nosler Ballistic Tips. Or better yet, get some SS195 blue box (the weakest round they sell thats not subsonic) or SS197 and try that out. Do you own a chronograph?

As Jay pointed out...the whole reason for an HD spring is to increase velocity and handle stronger loads (not to mention the shorter brass ejection distance). If you want to shoot min or less than min target loads, just swap the springs out...doesnt take long w/ the right tools and techniques.

Thanks for the help Grantness. I typically shoot stronger loads but do load up some target loads once in a while for plinking, I'll test it out with some ss195 and some stronger loads to see how it does. I might just have to go with a little hotter load for plinking.

Did you start to see any signs of pressure when you loaded the v-max past 7.7 grains? I'm kind of scared to push this round from all of the stories of the round being so finicky, I've gotten it around 7.4gr with no pressure signs but haven't dared go much higher.

Well, first of all there are ways of detecting overpressure-signs. I wrote an article easily found in the reloading section of the Wiki. But common sense it the main thing. If there's too much kick and freaky black smoke coming out the back (along with pierced primers and such)...then you're pushing it. Second, iFire recently described a difference between "new" and "old" acc#7, which might explain the discrepancies i've seen between their posted loads and my own results. If you're powder is relatively new (within 3-4 years or so) then its probably the new manufacturer...and you can use higher max loads. Third, loads posted by major companies usually err on the safe side for legal reasons. Fourth, don't quote me on this, but I doubt you could fit enough powder in the case (uncompressed) to cause problems Fifth, the HD spring theoretically ought to allow for a higher max load.

Grant thanks for covering, what you said is spot on. I was very busy today.

NP :thumb:

Can;t find the instillation vid here or on youtube mainly looking for the size (metric or otherwisP snap ring pliers... In my case Im trying to put a new one on. That one the guy at lowes took off w/ his knife flew off twice. Second time lost it, but its warped anyways. Definitely dont take shortcuts installing/reinstalling!

Thanks man!

On the light load topic - I installed the new spring (very easy procedure if you can manage that smeggin' snap ring) and feed lip thingies this week & took it all for a drive today for subsonic testing.

Out of 105 low power rounds, I only had 3 failures to eject & I think 2 were because the brass didn't get the case lube cleaned off well enough & it was just too dirty to eject. There was one feed jam but that was because the feed lip thing didn't stay put.

do you usually get around 3 failures in 100 rounds?

Short version - 3 is less than I was expecting.
When developing subsonic loads, I've learned to expect FTE. With the higher tension on this spring I expected more but I only had 1 real FTE (I am blaming my lack of proper case cleaning on the other 2 since the cases tried to stick in the chamber). If you look here viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5715&start=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; at the Oct 1, 2010 post - I had a ton of FTE & that was a factory spring.

On a strange coincidence note: There were no keyholes today. Usually with this kind of load I see at least one or two.

Rapier1772 wrote:On a strange coincidence note: There were no keyholes today. Usually with this kind of load I see at least one or two.

it probably wasn't a coincidence since the heavier spring will increase back pressure raising FPS

That's kind of what I figured too but this time I also went with the same and lower charges & still no keyholes. I am going to load up some of my past loads which had a lot of keyholes & see if there are any changes. Now I'm curious :ponder:

I'm wondering, have you tried SS197 rounds with the new spring yet? I'm going to have the 20lb spring installed when EA does the accurizing. I carry S4Ms now which should be no problem, but I primarily practice with SS197s and I'm just a little concerned about FTEs...

I have used 197s & they cycled fine.

Next Saturday I will be going to the range with a few hundred rounds of 197, about a hundred rounds of S4M and all new springs from EA. I will report back on how it works out. If I have issues with the light loads and the HD spring I will just swap out the 18lber when im using FNs loads...

Feedback to come.

have you tried the ss195?

MikeSantor wrote:Next Saturday I will be going to the range with a few hundred rounds of 197, about a hundred rounds of S4M and all new springs from EA. I will report back on how it works out. If I have issues with the light loads and the HD spring I will just swap out the 18lber when im using FNs loads...

Feedback to come.

So I got to the range today. Virgin HD spring, Mag springs, and feed lip mods. First up was 150 rounds of SS197. Not one problem feeding, firing or ejecting. Next up was 50 rounds of SS192. Same as the last, no problems what so ever. Next up was 100 rounds of S4M. Again, same as the rest. No problems at all. Last to go was 50 rounds of Protector. blew threw that with no problem.

*** I want to make one thing very clear. My Fiveseven is ridiculously and indefinitely dirty as hell. I treat it like a Glock. Not only from shooting but from Kydex dust. Take everything I post with a grain of salt since im sure my Fiveseven isnt like yours...

I can't wait to try my new springs and lip protectors out too . I am mostly liking the shorter toss of the brass!

I'm not really seeing the reduced distance that I have to chase the brass :laugh: I measured mine today, 8 yards (avg) using 197s & still a helluvan arc :laugh:
I tried more low power loads (subsonic) & had no FTEs this time. I guess my old problem loads are just that - problem loads

The main reason I am posting here though is that, on average, I am seeing about a 10fps increase in velocity using 197s & I've used 3 different lot numbers of them.

EA needs to make a brass catcher :thumb: I'd gladly take my laser off and attach one to the rail

fzr confused wrote:EA needs to make a brass catcher :thumb: I'd gladly take my laser off and attach one to the rail

The rail isn't meant for that kind of stress. IIRC, Vitally had one on his & it cracked his rail. But the brass catcher topic has been covered before viewtopic.php?f=15&t=389" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I ran 100 197's through my FsN with a brand new EA 20# spring today. No problems at all. I also ran a mag of staggered ProII and ProIII's after that. Again, no problems at all.

RC57 wrote:I ran 100 197's through my FsN with a brand new EA 20# spring today. No problems at all. I also ran a mag of staggered ProII and ProIII's after that. Again, no problems at all.

:thumb:

As for the ejection of spent brass, I'm not sure how far it would go considering I was shooting at an indoor range. I am very happy to report that it no longer bounces off the wall and hits me in the head though. :clap:

Yesterday night we shot 200 rounds of 97, 50 rounds of 92 and 50 rounds of S4M with out one problem with the HD spring. all my brass was in a nice pile about 6' in diameter about 10 feet away from where we were shooting. And by 9pm at night the 18'' of fire coming out of the fiveseven from the S4M was awesome.

My last update on the HD spring for those still wondering about how it shoots with lower powered rounds. Since my last update on Sep 25, I have shot 1000 more rounds of SS197 with zero issues out of the fiveseven. The conditions were from an indoor range kept at about 72*F all the way down to 35*F When we shot out at the farm at night 2 weeks ago. The spring has performed as advertised and has had no problems.

The fiveseven that was used was accurized by EA and all mags have HD springs with lip protector.

I would say this spring is officially G2G with all Ammunition...

:thumb:

Does this spring work well with the factory loads.

Yes many users have posted their results.

Merged with original thread.

I've ran just about everything EA and factory has to offer, even EA's <1000FPS VAR II, and all have cycled the slide with the 20lb spring.

Is the 20 lb HD recoil spring supposed to be shorter than the stock spring?

Not supposed to be anything compared to the factory spring other then properly fitting the action and stronger.