Farewell, Israel

Wollychop · Post by **Wollychop** » 26 Mar 2010, 07:10

For a head of government to visit the White House and not pose for photographers is rare. For a key ally to be left to his own devices while the President withdraws to have dinner in private was, until this week, unheard of. Yet that is how Benjamin Netanyahu was treated by President Obama on Tuesday night, according to Israeli reports on a trip viewed in Jerusalem as a humiliation.

After failing to extract a written promise of concessions on settlements, Obama walked out of his meeting with Netanyahu but invited him to stay at the White House, consult with advisers and “let me know if there is anything new”, a U.S. congressman, who spoke to the Prime Minister, said.

“It was awful,” the congressman said. One Israeli newspaper called the meeting “a hazing in stages”, poisoned by such mistrust that the Israeli delegation eventually left rather than risk being eavesdropped on a White House telephone line. Another said that the Prime Minister had received “the treatment reserved for the President of Equatorial Guinea”.

Left to talk among themselves Netanyahu and his aides retreated to the Roosevelt Room. He spent a further half-hour with Obama and extended his stay for a day of emergency talks to try to restart peace negotiations. However, he left last night with no official statement from either side. He returned to Israel yesterday isolated after what Israeli media have called a White House ambush for which he is largely to blame.

Sources said that Netanyahu failed to impress Obama with a flow chart purporting to show that he was not responsible for the timing of announcements of new settlement projects in east Jerusalem. Obama was said to be livid when such an announcement derailed the visit to Israel by Joe Biden, the Vice-President, this month and his anger towards Israel does not appear to have cooled.

Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary, cast doubt on minor details in Israeli accounts of the meeting but did not deny claims that it amounted to a dressing down for the Prime Minister, whose refusal to freeze settlements is seen in Washington as the main barrier to resuming peace talks.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03 ... latestnews" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **blueorison** » 26 Mar 2010, 07:37

Robert, after examining the post and thinking about the different sides and aspects of this incident,

I come away extremely disheartened and saddened. I know now that we have stepped into a departure from which the damage is done, and we cannot turn back. I have never thought Obama to be "evil". However, anyone that offends such a great ally as Israel cannot be forgiven.

I have and always thought of them as the Chosen. When you turn your face away from the Chosen, you turn your face from a greater power that has presided over you and kept you all these years.

We live not in grave times, for the danger is upon us.

God be with us all. I'd never think our once great nation to become what is has. As someone who deeply appreciates the beauty of America, I feel like I need to mourn and shed tears for what it has become and is presently.

This incident has darkened my bright morning. I will pray for America.

Post by **f3rr37** » 26 Mar 2010, 07:45

I'm sure Israel knows that the people of these United States are in support of them.

Post by **MrSlippyFist** » 26 Mar 2010, 07:58

f3rr37 wrote:I'm sure Israel knows that the people of these United States are in support of them.

I hope Israel knows.... aw <profanity>. I used the h word.

/I want Israel to know that the people of these United States are in support of them.

BIGCAP · Post by **BIGCAP** » 26 Mar 2010, 08:07

The sad thing is that even though the majority of Americans are in support of Israel who knows what will happen with this President. The majority of Americans were against the health care bill but we know what happened there. It is a sad day when we treat an ally we were the first to recognize not to many years ago as a nation the same way we would treat the head of state from a rival nation.

Llagoud · Post by **Llagoud** » 26 Mar 2010, 09:42

Very shabby treatment indeed.

Perhaps.....just perhaps, feeling that their back is no longer covered by the U.S.......Israel will do what needs to be done to protect itself and citizens, what has been needing to be done for some time now.

The current administration has insulted all of our allies and cozied up to all of our enemies.

EARS · Post by **EARS** » 26 Mar 2010, 10:40

That's our President!!!! :puke: :furious: The one country that would stand and fight for us and with us, he insults and treats like dirt. I can't really say what I think, because the Secret Service may read this.

Post by **f3rr37** » 26 Mar 2010, 10:48

EARS wrote:I can't really say what I think, because the Secret Service may read this.

I'm sure the SS is thinking the same thing.

Post by **panzermk2** » 26 Mar 2010, 11:16

The funny thing is bama group is so stupid. They think by snubbing BB that they are putting Israel in it's place and punishing them.

I reality as was posted already Israel won't sit the and take a pounding. If they know the bama group won't support them more then ever they will move on their own to protect them selves. Our official support, meaning our government and not people of the USA, was the only real tool we had to keep Israel from going off. Even I know this. How can the bama group be so stupid?

Wollychop · Post by **Wollychop** » 26 Mar 2010, 11:56

I think a dangerous scenario involves Israel taking action and the administration condemning them as an aggressor state and taking "action" (sanctions, whatever) against Israel itself. I don't think it's that far fetched, as much as the left regards Israel as a villain.

Llagoud · Post by **Llagoud** » 27 Mar 2010, 06:02

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/4369" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mind-boggling how quickly the Jerusalem housing project sent the stars into re-alignment over Israel to shine down now on a new, official US vision of the Jewish state as an drag on US interests in the world, even to the point of endangering the lives of American troops.

That was the message the Vice President delivered in Israel this month (“What you’re doing here undermines the security of our troops …”) according to Israeli media. The White House denied it.

That was the feeling the President conveyed in treating visiting Israeli president Benjamin Netanyahu like an international leper this week (no pictures, no press, no statements, no nothing).

And very sensationally, that was the narrative Centcom Commander Gen. David Petraeus put in writing to the US Senate (sending hero-worshipping conservatives into denial) as noted in last week’s column. Disregarding the impetus of 14 centuries of Muslims’ doctrinally-driven aggression on non-Muslims, Petraeus advanced a line that echoed the Arab League’s: namely, that “Arab anger over the Palestinian question” drives violence throughout the Centcom region, which includes Iraq and Afghanistan, and enhances the powers of Iran and Al Qaeda.

Obviously, there is more to this than apartment houses. In his book The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism, Andrew Bostom explains the doctrinal basis not just of Islamic antisemitism – an eternal driver of the jihad on Israel – but also of the concept that there exists a kind of eternal right of return of Muslims to any former Muslim conquest. “All of historical Palestine,” he writes, “whose pre-Islamic inhabitants, Jews, Samaritans and Christians were conquered by jihad in the fourth decade of the seventh century, is considered “fay territory.” In other words, having once been conquered by Islam, such land is considered by Muslims to be “a permanent part of the Dar al Islam, where Islamic law must forever prevail.” According to this thinking, Israel, governed by “usurper” infidel Jews who are no longer a subjugated dhimmi people, “must be destroyed in a collective jihad by the entire Muslim community.”

Hard to ignore such a potent source of aggrieved aggression. But we do, and to the point of denying its very existence. And then what? Oskar Freysinger of the Swiss People’s Party, famous for leading the campaign to ban minaret construction in Switzerland, once put it this way to me when explaining why his party, known for its anti-Islamization policies, had always supported Israel: “We are well aware that if Israel disappears we lose a vanguard. They [the Israelis] are fighting our fight, in fact. As long as the Muslims are concentrated on Israel, it’s not so hard for us. But as soon as Israel will have disappeared, they will come to get the other part” – namely, Europe.

What Freysinger sees better than most (including Israelis) is the apocalyptic dimension to global jihad, regardless of the “peace process” and other camouflage. Not only are we witnessing what could be the final stages of jihad on Israel, the US is now openly supporting the wrong side.

PGT · Post by **PGT** » 27 Mar 2010, 17:06

tit for tat

6brnorma · Post by **6brnorma** » 28 Mar 2010, 15:27

This probably is not 'politically correct' but I hope every American of Jewish decent that voted for this clown........now regrets their damn vote!!!!!

Post by **Rapier1772** » 28 Mar 2010, 21:36

6brnorma wrote:This probably is not 'politically correct' but I hope every American ~~of Jewish decent~~ that voted for this clown........now regrets their damn vote!!!!!

Fixed it for you :thumb:

fatherfoof · Post by **fatherfoof** » 29 Mar 2010, 20:56

For about 15 yrs, the PM has been my hero. He comes not as an organizer to get you more welfare, but as a dedicated military man who is actively concerned about the survival of Israel. Since I PO everyone anyway, I'll simply say, God doesn't need a teleprompter. When He says He'll bless those who bless Israel and curse those who don't, we need to accept the fact that our boy Barry has put us in the "Oh <profanity>" column.

High-Gear · Post by **High-Gear** » 31 Mar 2010, 10:59

Why do Americans feel such a need to support Israel? What have they done for us?

Is it just a religious thing?

Please don't get sideways, I truly don't understand this. Please enlighten me.

Post by **f3rr37** » 31 Mar 2010, 11:29

Religious ties... and the fact that they're our only true friend in the middle east. The rest of the middle east wants them gone, so we help them out. Besides... they gave us the Desert Eagle .50AE :p

High-Gear · Post by **High-Gear** » 31 Mar 2010, 13:06

f3rr37 wrote: they gave us the Desert Eagle .50AE :p

'Nuff Said! :laugh:

Not to mention the Uzi and Galil

gotants · Post by **gotants** » 01 Apr 2010, 12:40

High-Gear wrote:Why do Americans feel such a need to support Israel? What have they done for us?

Is it just a religious thing?

Please don't get sideways, I truly don't understand this. Please enlighten me.

Because they also protect the origins of Christianity and hold them sacred as their own. Even Jesus was a Jew.

Funny how Jews and Christians can coexist peacefully, and neither gets along with Muslims (in Israel). And thats the crux of it all, according to Muslim law, if you aren't muslim, then you must convert or die.

EARS · Post by **EARS** » 01 Apr 2010, 17:25

Couldn't have said it better.

Wollychop · Post by **Wollychop** » 03 Apr 2010, 04:16

My interest in Israel is not really religious. While I respect those who support it on the basis of their faith, there are far more practical reasons for doing so.

Israel is one of the few nations that has consistently stood by the US in world bodies such as the US. Do they do so because they have benefited from our relationship historically in matters such as defense (weapons, etc)? Sure, but regardless, they are a stable, democratic and free society in a part of the world that can hardly be said to meet those qualities. They have proven to be a stalwart ally and have proven their martial capabilities time and time again. As the territories which comprise Israel have been, for hundreds of years, merely holdings of empires (i.e. the Ottomans) I find claims of historical Palestinian "sovereignty" laughable, and one need only look at their rejection by Arab states who at the same time decry the "treatment" of the Palestinians. Keep in mind there is a healthy population of Muslim, Arab Israeli citizens. Can you name an Islamic state with a healthy population of free Christian or Jewish citizens? Quite the contrary, especially in places like Saudi Arabia, or in Egypt where the Coptics are heavily regulated and often attacked. And keep in mind that the Government of Israel is really a secular construct.

Would the middle east be more stable if Israel didn't exist? Maybe. But the nature of that stability would be one of despotism.

PGT · Post by **PGT** » 03 Apr 2010, 04:31

Wollychop wrote:Can you name an Islamic state with a healthy population of free Christian or Jewish citizens?

The Middle East has several countries where those of non-Muslim faith live and prosper. As you said, Israel is a secular state so its not really fair to ask one to choose an "Islamic" state that has a healthy population of non-Muslims (not an accurate contrast). That said, Pakistan fits that parameter and has a "healthy population of free Christian or Jewish citizens". The key being "or". A strong Christian population though not Jewish.

Llagoud · Post by **Llagoud** » 03 Apr 2010, 04:48

This Pakistan?

Christians Arrested after Muslim Attack in Pakistan

Fri, Feb. 26 2010

Some 150 armed Muslims assaulted the Christian colony of Pahar Ganj in North Nazimabad, Karachi, on Sunday (Feb. 21), damaging two churches, shooting at houses, beating Christians and burning shops and vehicles after a fruit stand vendor attacked a Christian boy for touching his merchandise.

Christian leaders said Muslim extremists helped gather and inflame the assailants, but they said the fruit stand vendor upset with the 14-year-old Christian boy for touching plums on his hand-pulled cart initially instigated the attack. The unnamed vendor reportedly had a previous conflict with the boy, whose name was also withheld, and in objecting to the teenager’s actions he slashed his hand with a fruit knife and threw an iron weight at him, Christian leaders said.

Social class evidently also played a role. Eyewitnesses said the Muslim fruit vendor yelled, “This Christian Bhangi untouchable has defiled my fruit.” The derogatory “Bhangi,” literally “sewer man,” is commonly used to denigrate Christians in Sindh Province. In the Sindhi language it signifies “unholy” or “untouchable,” with its Punjabi equivalent being “Choohra.”

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20 ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PGT · Post by **PGT** » 03 Apr 2010, 04:51

Yep, that one. In case you hadn't noticed, Israeli's are targeted too because of their faith, in their own country. Are we comparing apples to apples or apples to oranges?

The point you were making was that the Gov doesn't persecute those of other faiths, right?

Llagoud · Post by **Llagoud** » 03 Apr 2010, 05:00

Minority Rights Group International, a London-based watchdog organization, ranks Pakistan as the world's sixth- most dangerous country for minorities. Along with Christians, groups under threat include a variety of ethnicities, such as Pashtun in the northwest and Balochis and Sindhis in the south, the group says. Minority Shiite Muslims have also been victimized by Sunni Muslim radical groups.

PGT · Post by **PGT** » 03 Apr 2010, 05:00

some reading about the 'freedom' Christians experience in Israel*

Christians in Jerusalem want Jews to stop spitting on them
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShAr ... mNo=487412" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ADL Calls On Chief Rabbis to Speak Out Against Interfaith Assaults In Old City
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/IslME_62/4576_62.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Capital Anglos mobilize against practice of spitting at Christians
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1154366.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hundreds of New Testaments torched in Israel
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Church Showered with Stones in Northern Israel
http://www.crosswalk.com/news/religiontoday/11605133/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

*this isn't state-sponsored per se

PGT · Post by **PGT** » 03 Apr 2010, 05:04

one of my co-workers is Jewish and recently made a trip to Israel. He told me he was routinely spit upon for "not being Jewish enough". :thumb: Got to love "tolerance" and the myth that is Israel.

<--- grew up with my mom teaching secular studies at a Hebrew academy. There were several IAF families there as they were in the US with their Kfir squadron (cross-training with the Navy and Marines).

I have the utmost respect for Israel but to say they're the paramount for religious tolerance in the region is patently false.

Llagoud · Post by **Llagoud** » 03 Apr 2010, 05:15

but to say they're the paramount for religious tolerance in the region is patently false.

I just re-read the entire thread and can't find that claim anywhere.

Wollychop · Post by **Wollychop** » 03 Apr 2010, 05:16

PGT wrote:
Wollychop wrote:Can you name an Islamic state with a healthy population of free Christian or Jewish citizens?
The Middle East has several countries where those of non-Muslim faith live and prosper. As you said, Israel is a secular state so its not really fair to ask one to choose an "Islamic" state that has a healthy population of non-Muslims (not an accurate contrast). That said, Pakistan fits that parameter and has a "healthy population of free Christian or Jewish citizens". The key being "or". A strong Christian population though not Jewish.

I've spent several years of my life in the middle east. I think the word "prosper" in this context is ridiculous. But I guess my original point was that I support Israel on secular grounds anyway, as an ally and a very militarily capable state which has supported the U.S. far more than most.

PGT · Post by **PGT** » 03 Apr 2010, 05:31

Llagoud wrote:
but to say they're the paramount for religious tolerance in the region is patently false.
I just re-read the entire thread and can't find that claim anywhere.

Apparently, you missed my first post in this thread where I quoted someone. The (apparent) intent of that statement was to say that Israel was tolerant of religions other than the mainstream one there. I think we have to parse governmental acceptance with social acceptance, as has been aptly demonstrated on all sides here.

Llagoud · Post by **Llagoud** » 03 Apr 2010, 06:33

Nope, just re-read it again. I didn't miss anything.

PGT · Post by **PGT** » 03 Apr 2010, 06:35

you win.

Post by **panzermk2** » 03 Apr 2010, 10:29

I have been to Israel MANY times and have never been spit on. There are four major Shuls and of them one group does go to great lengths to piss everyone off including the other Jews as not being "Jewish" enough. This is however NOT the norm and they are in the minority of Jewish groups. I have wandered at random both in new and old city, traveled on the train, Green buses and yes even the Red buses and never had anything but smiles returned to me.

One of the things, and I commented on this here after my first trip, was the strong national pride. Israeli Flags everywhere, but also quite allot of US flags. So much so you could not help but notice.

Depending on how bad bama screws this place up I may add Israel to by bug out list.

I would like to know where that co-worker got spit on.

PGT · Post by **PGT** » 03 Apr 2010, 10:45

Jerusalem, on a bus and at the Wailing Wall.

Post by **panzermk2** » 03 Apr 2010, 11:37

WOW Never had any issues there.

groobel226 · Post by **groobel226** » 04 Apr 2010, 19:24

As an aside, we can't forget that bama was raised as a muslim, cancelled participation in the US National Day of Prayer, and then kneeled to allah in prayer with the muslims in Washington. It follows suit that he'd snub Israel's PM too.....just sayin'...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

toyslr · Post by **toyslr** » 04 Apr 2010, 20:27

We have held the Israelis on a "short leash" for yrs. I also doubt Obama's ability to do or interest in doing that, any longer.
He thinks he is ABOVE them apparently. I have talked to fighter jock friends of my brother and many of them will tell you, it
would be a toss up for air superiorty against them.
If Obama can't hold them off and Israel breaks out on a Muslim country, who do we back? Or do we set it out? All in all this
idiot bows to the Saudi King and everyone else but pushes off on of our STRONGEST interests?? Almost as smooth as all his
other "Changes"....

PGT · Post by **PGT** » 05 Apr 2010, 03:23

toyslr wrote: All in all this
idiot bows to the Saudi King and everyone else but pushes off on of our STRONGEST interests?? Almost as smooth as all his
other "Changes"....

ahem.

Bush kissed the Saudi king....

Kerberos · Post by **Kerberos** » 05 Apr 2010, 04:23

PGT wrote:
toyslr wrote: All in all this
idiot bows to the Saudi King and everyone else but pushes off on of our STRONGEST interests?? Almost as smooth as all his
other "Changes"....
ahem.

Bush kissed the Saudi king....

Two completely different things. Bowing shows deferrence.

PGT · Post by **PGT** » 05 Apr 2010, 04:42

or, respect. guess you missed the first picture as well.

the hate for Obama has clouded people's memories of how other U.S. presidents have conducted themselves (not referring only to Bush)

Llagoud · Post by **Llagoud** » 05 Apr 2010, 04:49

I'm a bit torn on the historical and religious ties to land. I understand many feel very strongly about temple sites and graves etc......but what if we just invited the roughly 6 million Jews to come to America......bring their military and everything they have......and say......give them southern Texas. They can patrol the border, keep their Navy, and we'll have a jumpstart when the currently collapsing 150 years of Progressive yanqui Empire is complete.

or, respect. guess you missed the first picture as well.

Uh, isn't that a 'duck' to receive a medal rather than a bow?

PGT · Post by **PGT** » 05 Apr 2010, 04:53

Llagoud wrote:
Uh, isn't that a 'duck' to receive a medal rather than a bow?

indeed. I guess we should give Obama credit for not kissing the King and holding his hand (as Bush did).

Llagoud · Post by **Llagoud** » 05 Apr 2010, 05:28

That was already addressed by Kerberos. I recognize your template.

Wollychop · Post by **Wollychop** » 05 Apr 2010, 09:10

While I sense a preplanned argument, here's an interesting cultural aside:

Arab men do hold hands with friends, and in fact with men with whom they feel comfortable or when they are nervous. Kind of funny the first time it happens to see the American's reaction, until they realise what's up.

Post by **panzermk2** » 05 Apr 2010, 19:20

And the check kissing thing happens all over the middle east.

Rocky123 · Post by **Rocky123** » 05 Apr 2010, 21:02

O'Reilly said the other day that BHO sincerely thought he should IMPOSE his cradle to grave government intervention on America. O'Reilly thought the opposition should avoid calling him a Marxist, questioning his birth certificate, etc., and just attack him on his poitical and idealogical views, which he thought should be more than enough to get him unelected.

I would prefer he take his act back to Kenya, along with Harry & Nancy, and yes even bimbo Biden (for giggles) and leave America alone.

If he pushes too hard the Israeli lobby in this country will see that his birth certificate and more, get some attention.

As far as Israel, here are some things I have read.
"We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." You might think that maybe that statement was made by an overzealous Jewish American - or - an Israeli comedian - or - an Israeli talk show host.
That statement was made in an interview on Israeli radio by then Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, on October 3, 2001.
Here's a fuller version, "Every time we do something you tell me that America will do this and America will do that. I want to tell you something very clear; don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."

Do you know that? Do I know that? Does your neighbor know that?

To try to understand we go back to Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman - Jewish American spies for Israel. On June 13, 2005, an expanded indictment explicitly named AIPAC, and a "foreign country". The indictment also named an Israeli Mossad agent Naor Gilon.

Despite the fact of AIPAC being actually named in an official indictment by the U.S. Justice Deparment, the U.S. secreatry of state, Condoleezza Rice gave the keynote address at AIPAC's convention dated May 22, 2005. It was common knowledge that indictments were forthcoming on AIPAC and Israeli operatives working inside our government to betray America, yet our secretary of state agreed to be AIPAC's keynote speaker.
Further, leaders from both Democratic and Republican parties also spoke. Willingly and without reservation whatsoever, they took to the microphone to praise Israel and AIPAC. They said, "We declare our unconditional support for AIPAC, for Israel, and for Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon." UNCONDITIONAL.

Those speaking included then Senator Clinton, then Senate Republican leader Bill Frist, and the Democratic Senate leader Harry Reid.

In addition, more than half the Senate was in attendance, and over 150 members of the House of Representatives. All clapping and cheering the words of their leaders and all giving AIPAC assurance of their unwavering and unconditional support and loyalty.

On August 4, 2005, the U.S. Justice Department formally indicted AIPAC officials Rosen and Weissman. The indictment read: "Rosen and Weissman received and passed documents to Israel via the Israeli Embassy." Trial was set for April 25, 2006.

Lawrence Franklin's trial (the Pentagon insider) was to begin January 2, 2006.

In March 2005, Israel "fired" Roen and Weissman. Israel stated they were "appalled" by these two AIPAC officials. Rosen and Weissman became the new "fall guys" for AIPAC.

Rosen and Weissman finally spoke. They said, "We did nothing different than any other AIPAC official. It is common practice for AIPAC operatives to conduct themselves in this manner, and we were simply following the orders of AIPAC." And why not when AIPAC has the "unconditional" support of the fools in Washington.

At this point I would recommend the recently published book Ship Without a Country by Victor Thorn and Mark Glenn.
This is from the back cover:
"When one considers that thousands of books, articles, essays, documentaries and blockbuster films have been made concerning pivotal events in history such as Pearl Harbor and the assassination of JFK; at the same time we need ask: why has no such attention toward the attack on the USS Liberty (June 8, 1967) taken place? After all, had the ship been sunk as planned, it would have kicked off a monumental (possibly nuclear) exchange between the U.S. and USSR.
The reason for this silence over the Liberty attack is simple. It didn't go off as planned, meaning the ship was not sunk. More importantly, the entity responsible for this attack was the most sacred of all sacred cows - Israel. Moreover, any rational person that spent even five minutes considering the facts of this event would walk away conluding that it was a deliberate act of war against the United States.
In this book, readers will come in contact with many of these facts - disturbing items that have been kept deliberatly - some might even say fanatically - hidden, for nearly half a century. They paint the ultimate picture of set-up, betrayal, and cover-up - both by Israel and elements within the U.S. Government."

Wollychop · Post by **Wollychop** » 06 Apr 2010, 00:58

The quote you provide -- the control america quote -- has long been debunked, and in fact in its earliest forms originally appeared in Palestinian pro Hamas web publications.

I have to take pretty much everything you've said with a salt tablet. Is Israel perfect? Nope. Have they spied on us? Yes. Have we spied on them? Certainly.

Rocky123 · Post by **Rocky123** » 06 Apr 2010, 20:19

Wolly I respect your thoughts and opinions as you have demonstrated on this forum your integrity.

I would be interested in your thoughts about the book Ship Without a Country. I will PM you with an offer to mail you one of my extra copies, if interested.

Regards, Rich

fatherfoof · Post by **fatherfoof** » 06 Apr 2010, 23:37

In previous remarks, there are negative comments re Israeli behaviour. Good grief, if one looks at America, no doubt some hick town will do something absurd and hardly be representative of the nation. Wolly wisely makes his comments on the situation politic- as he is an army officer I respect that. As a clergyman, I must draw upon the fact there are absoltes. To deny this is stupidity. In my worldview the absolte mustbe our parents' "Good Book", or the Holy Scriptures. One can have any opinion they want. I choose to go with that which the Lord God Almighty has stated. He who curses Israel I will curse. --Don't want to be there. He who blesses Israel I will bless--I'll take all the blessings I can get and since it's from God it is a sure thing.

EARS · Post by **EARS** » 07 Apr 2010, 04:50

I agree with you Padre! If we believe one word of God's Word, then we must believe all of His Word. Remember, if "we are wrong" there is no consequence. If "we" are right, then......! Are you ready for the consequence? Israel is God's "chosen people". Look what has happened to this country since it has pulled away from the way our relationship with them has changed for the worse over the past years.

Post by **panzermk2** » 07 Apr 2010, 05:03

Lets keep in mind that the USS Liberty WAS a spy ship and at the time spying on Israel. Israel did not know who we were going to side with them or the UN.

Post by **Cyberfly** » 07 Apr 2010, 05:55

I've been sort of waiting to see if anybody else shared my mindset and it seems the Padre hit it on the head.
That has been my thinking for years. Everything else aside, my thinking is and always HAS been, Israel is God's chosen people. 'He who blesses Israel, so too shall I bless'. To alienate them would be like turning your back on family. You just don't do it. Bad karma and all that.

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