Reloading help

General reloading

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acolsden
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Reloading help

Post by acolsden » 30 Oct 2009, 18:25

So I loaded a bunch of test rounds for 2 new guns a savage 110 FCPK 300 win mag and an FN PBR xp .308
I found the best loads which shot under .5 moa at 100 yds. Im using 44 grains of varget and 150 gr sst hornady bullets in the .308. I spent hours to prep my once fired hornady match brass doing everything you can think of to squeeze the last bit of accuracy out of them. Loaded them up just like my test rounds now my groups are more like 1 inch moa. What the hell happened.

Wollychop
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Re: Reloading help

Post by Wollychop » 30 Oct 2009, 18:47

What did you do to the brass?

I ask because, if you are shooting it out of a PBR, you are fireforming the brass and don't need to full length size, etc.

For my SPR I make sure that my .308 brass shot out of it is clearly labeled. I do not full length size it and just measure to verify the trim length (rarely have to trim fire formed brass), and neck size it. It is basically mated to that rifle's chamber.

Also, other variables could be at play (diff OAL, etc)

acolsden
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Re: Reloading help

Post by acolsden » 31 Oct 2009, 12:20

The brass was fire formed in the PBR and I neck size only. I trimmed the brass very little to the trim length. Then I cleaned the flash holes and deburred them. Cleaned the primer pockets chamfered and deburred the rim of the cases and polished them inside and out. I measured my free bore with an OAL gauge and tried several lengths from longest to shortest before I finaly seated them back to my original test round length. I to thought COL may be the issue but it wasnt the cause. Mabe all the work on the brass is a waste of time.

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gw45acp
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Re: Reloading help

Post by gw45acp » 31 Oct 2009, 19:39

First of all, I would say that moa accuracy is very respectable. If your groups opened up from .5 to 1.0 inch, that could be just a light breeze or atmospheric conditions changing slightly. I'm assuming that you are trickling your powder charges and you are not using any crimp?

Since you are working with factory chambers and not a custom benchrest dimension, you seem to have all the bases covered. The only other thing you may want to do is weigh your empty prepped cases and group them by weight within a tolerance that you choose.

EDIT: You also may want to try full-length sizing and/or annealing the brass. Annealing will help with evening out your neck tension.
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acolsden
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Re: Reloading help

Post by acolsden » 01 Nov 2009, 17:16

Yes I do measure each load with a Lyman DPS III and no I do not crimp. Mabe your right it could be mother nature or shooter error but that .5 moa change is a big difference to me when I am punching paper at 700 yds. Thanks for the insight

Alan

Grantness
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Re: Reloading help

Post by Grantness » 01 Nov 2009, 18:24

Have you tried measuring/fixing bullet run-out? If you dont have it, you may need to purchase the right equipment to do that. If you are interested in squeezing all the accuracy that you can out of your loads (and it sounds like you are), it might be a good investment.

Brass and bullets can vary from piece to piece. As was suggested, sort the brass and bullets by weight. You may also want to further sort the bullets by length. There is sometimes some variation.

Have you examined the gun for any changes? Any scope mount/ring screws loose? Was your gun clean/unclean when you fired the .5 moa shots? Was it cold or hot?

But before you go to all the trouble, you may want to try the same load again. Like gw45acp said, it could just be atmospheric conditions or shooter error.

Sample size is very important when it comes to determining the accuracy (or velocity) of a given load. Shooting one 3 or 5 shot group isnt going to cut it. Sure, it can give you a rough idea of which load out of several is the best, but to hone in on the actual accuracy of a load you need to shoot 5-7 groups (which can take a long time if you want to do them all from a cold bore). Believe me, your stats will improve a good bit if you take the extra time to do 7.

acolsden
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Re: Reloading help

Post by acolsden » 03 Nov 2009, 17:04

No changes in the gun it is brand new and topped with a swarovski Z6 3-18x50 with the ballistic turret. If you havent used one they are awsome and work great. I loaded 50 rounds of tubbs final finish bullets shot them and loaded my test rounds. I did the same thing every time firing 5 shots cleaning with an otis kit letting it cool then 5 more. I am mainly curious if doing the modifications to the brass rather than just the basics affects the accuracy or somehow changes the physics involved. Ill have to try shooting again and if that doesnt work ill load some new test rounds.

One more question though does measuring free bore and trying different COL. really make that much difference in accuracy

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gw45acp
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Re: Reloading help

Post by gw45acp » 03 Nov 2009, 19:06

acolsden wrote: One more question though does measuring free bore and trying different COL. really make that much difference in accuracy
It can. Here's a quote from Froggy from 6mmbr.com on loading the .308:
froggy wrote: When choosing a load to test, keep in mind that seating depths can make a HUGE difference in pressure. Remember that seating bullets into the lands can raise pressures but moving 0.020" or more AWAY from the lands can also raise pressures, because you are reducing the effective case capacity. Many readers ask us "should I jam or jump my bullets." There is no right answer for every gun. For every guy getting great results at .015" jam, there is another guy doing well with a 0.025" jump. In general, most popular .308 match bullets (Bergers excepted) are tolerant of jump. This is certainly true of the 168 and 175 SMKs. So don't worry that you may be sacrificing a great deal of accuracy by loading to mag length, even if that puts you pretty far from the lands.
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Grantness
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Re: Reloading help

Post by Grantness » 03 Nov 2009, 20:47

yea, seating depth is one of the most important variables. Take the TSX for example. Barnes usually suggests loading ~.05" inches off the lands (usually between .03"-.07")...get it right and you'll be hard pressed to find a much more accurate bullet, do it wrong and it can be all over the place. Every weapon is going to be different, so you can't necessarily just go off of load manual numbers. You have to test it for yourself.

Many of the best benchrest shooters in the world will bring a small portable press to the range just so they can fine tune seating depths and test the accuracy on the spot...

rod_bru
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Re: Reloading help

Post by rod_bru » 18 Jan 2010, 19:37

first day on the 57 forum. ive been shooting a 57 for 4 years now. i want to start reloading for coy dog hunting. with the 197 and lead free factory amo i have see dogs run off after a good not graet placed shots .the lead free zip throw and the 197s dont have it past 50 yards.any good loads :?:

PainKillaX
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Re: Reloading help

Post by PainKillaX » 18 Jan 2010, 22:47

Welcome to the forum. I'd suggest checking the Wiki and the reloading section of the forum. There's a lot of wise people here, so stick around and utilize that search function at the top :D

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fatherfoof
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Re: Reloading help

Post by fatherfoof » 18 Jan 2010, 23:16

rod, Welcome! in the wiki you'll find a ton of info. I'd guess at least half of us reload, and some guys like Grant and Jay at EA (sponser up top) have tried almost everything safe imaginable. You're in the right place and we're honored to have you in our niche of the world.
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PainKillaX
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Re: Reloading help

Post by PainKillaX » 18 Jan 2010, 23:21

And maybe a few things unimaginable :lmao:

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fatherfoof
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Re: Reloading help

Post by fatherfoof » 18 Jan 2010, 23:22

:laugh:
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Rapier1772
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Re: Reloading help

Post by Rapier1772 » 20 Jan 2010, 22:48

PainKillaX wrote:And maybe a few things unimaginable :lmao:
A few of their loads, I might also add unsafe - but they're still here :thumb:
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Grantness
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Re: Reloading help

Post by Grantness » 21 Jan 2010, 08:25

Hey! I resemble that remark! :evil:

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gw45acp
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Re: Reloading help

Post by gw45acp » 21 Jan 2010, 08:58

Hey, the replacement pin for his FsN was only a dollar! Besides, his Contender really likes those loads.
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Grantness
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Re: Reloading help

Post by Grantness » 21 Jan 2010, 18:10

100% true. She also likes powders that the FsN would have no business using :D .

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Rapier1772
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Re: Reloading help

Post by Rapier1772 » 20 May 2011, 01:16

Nice little catch all thread instead of making a new one for every little question :thumb:


So here's the thing - I have to pull down some 10mm rounds (possibly over charged). I have the Hornady Cam-Lock Bullet Puller but they don't make a collet for the the .40/10mm. I also have the hammer type puller but since I live in an apartment, it causes noise issues.

-Will the RCBS .40 collet work in the Hornady Cam-lock?
or
-Would the Hornady .41 caliber collet work on the .40 bullet? (small modifications ok)
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srt-4_jon
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Re: Reloading help

Post by srt-4_jon » 20 May 2011, 02:41

the hornady .410 collet will work. I use it on 10mm.

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