In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Forum for discussing factory & reloading non-5.7x28mm ammunition.

What would you prefer in a pinch:

9mm 147gr. HST @ 1050fps - 360ft/lbs
8
19%
5.7x28 40gr. Vmax @ 2050fps - 375ft/lbs
35
81%
 
Total votes: 43

User avatar
iFire
Senior Member
Posts: 545
Joined: 22 Jan 2010, 06:42
custom title: FsN | PS90

In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by iFire » 26 Jan 2011, 20:09

In a pinch, what would you prefer?

9mm 147gr. HST @ 1050fps - 360ft/lbs

5.7x28 40gr. Vmax @ 2050fps - 375ft/lbs

I know there are TONS of other options, just looking for the preference between these two :thumb:

Image

User avatar
panzermk2
Forum Supporter
Posts: 11544
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 15:51
Location: Around here it's more like what can we shoot through next.
Contact:

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by panzermk2 » 26 Jan 2011, 20:16

I gel tested the 9mm 147gr. HST a while ago and it was nothing impressive.

Viltaliy has the pics somewhere after we cut it out of the gel block.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition

"Engineers, the oompa-loompas of science!"

Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz
Image

User avatar
iFire
Senior Member
Posts: 545
Joined: 22 Jan 2010, 06:42
custom title: FsN | PS90

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by iFire » 26 Jan 2011, 20:34

panzermk2 wrote:I gel tested the 9mm 147gr. HST a while ago and it was nothing impressive.

Viltaliy has the pics somewhere after we cut it out of the gel block.
Good to know... I Personally think the 5.7 with the 40gr. is the better choice, just looking for others opinions :laugh:

I think the HST is definitely one of the better options in 9mm, I have a mag full of them in the gun in the closet, just in case my five seven is no where to be found...

User avatar
blueorison
Competition/Training Mod
Posts: 10628
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 14:28
custom title: UT/EA Pistol Captain
Contact:

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by blueorison » 26 Jan 2011, 20:51

Oh. One of THESE threads again.

:D

Why is it the OPs of these threads NEVER seem to state under what circumstances the ammo is being used? How many times have we gone over this...

What are we shooting...?
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

Buffman
Silver Member
Posts: 2881
Joined: 12 Jan 2009, 22:48
Location: SW Michigan
Contact:

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by Buffman » 26 Jan 2011, 21:46

Depends on what we're shooting :) If there's a good chance someone is wearing soft body armor, I'll take the 5.7 :)

User avatar
flyingirish04
Gold Member
Posts: 4783
Joined: 25 Aug 2008, 21:42
custom title: Mtn Man in Flatland
Location: Great Plains, USA

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by flyingirish04 » 26 Jan 2011, 22:12

I have to disagree with you jay. I am very impressed with the HST line of projectiles. Nothing comes close as far as consistent expansion.

That being said, I voted with the ProtecTOR. I truly believe the hydrostatic shock received from that round would out do the impressive expansion of the HST.
Killed Two Stones with One Bird.

User avatar
iFire
Senior Member
Posts: 545
Joined: 22 Jan 2010, 06:42
custom title: FsN | PS90

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by iFire » 26 Jan 2011, 22:42

flyingirish04 wrote:I have to disagree with you jay. I am very impressed with the HST line of projectiles. Nothing comes close as far as consistent expansion.

That being said, I voted with the ProtecTOR. I truly believe the hydrostatic shock received from that round would out do the impressive expansion of the HST.
The round in the poll is not a ProtecTor, but for sake of the question it doesn't really matter too much, same idea... Jay's got the ProtecTor round @ 2092fps - 389 ft/lbs -

blueorison wrote:Oh. One of THESE threads again.

:D

Why is it the OPs of these threads NEVER seem to state under what circumstances the ammo is being used? How many times have we gone over this...

What are we shooting...?
I left it open ended on purpose. How am I suppose to know what I will be shooting at when a bad situation arises???

----------

I have two options - what is everyones opinion of what they would choose if they had to choose one over the other, going into something unknown...
Last edited by iFire on 26 Jan 2011, 22:52, edited 2 times in total.

SeaHawkDriver-B
Senior Member
Posts: 989
Joined: 11 Nov 2009, 13:15
Location: Embarked on 2 acres of floating Soverign US Territory
Contact:

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 26 Jan 2011, 22:46

Sorry to bring in such a dark fact, but I think that Malik Hassan and Jarred Laughner just performed a real-world comarison, and the 5.7x28 won hands down.
:facepalm:

User avatar
blueorison
Competition/Training Mod
Posts: 10628
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 14:28
custom title: UT/EA Pistol Captain
Contact:

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by blueorison » 27 Jan 2011, 00:51

I don't pick a caliber in threads like "this vs that", especially all those SHTF scenarios, but I do like the simplicity of your question.

That's a pretty easy question. The number one assumption I would make in a defensive situation is that the threat has to be stopped immediately and as quickly as possible.

The NUMBER ONE priority in an unknown danger situation TO ME, is to put

1. the most rounds on target (A-zone)
2. as quickly as possible
3. and making the first shot count the most in the critical hit zone

the .454 is a great powerful round, but if you miss the first shot, or hit his foot instead of A zone, it does no good, as follow-up shots don't come quickly enough to stop the threat. That is my short enlightenment sentence to using big, high-recoiling calibers in unknown defensive situations. Of course, that doesn't mean I recommend a .22 LR.

Now, if I have to shoot the 9mm with something other than my platforms, like a regular sig (not the P210, which I find a joy to shoot), then I will pick 5.7x28mm anyday, as it only exists in the pistol form with the FsN, and I know I can do it with this pistol. This is because some 9mm guns have different physical characteristics that make them slower for follow-up shots. No matter the shooter, the advantageous of some platforms are simply mechanical and cannot be argued. (For example, you cannot argue that identical guns with identical 9mm ammo that have different lengths of trigger reset can be shot in the same time).

So you inevitably also have to consider the platform (well, I do, anyway), and which you can shoot most efficiently.

If your question is under the assumption that you can shoot just as well with either caliber, I would probably pick the 5.7x28mm, because of the disturbance and fragmentation it creates.

Sorry for the longer post.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

User avatar
jmz5
Site Admin
Posts: 11105
Joined: 18 Aug 2008, 21:26
custom title: Proprietor
Location: Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by jmz5 » 27 Jan 2011, 05:42

I see I'm the only one who voted HST, no scientific reason, it's just what I prefer if I must use a pistol. But out of a SBR, I would take the 5.7.
كاف

User avatar
flyingirish04
Gold Member
Posts: 4783
Joined: 25 Aug 2008, 21:42
custom title: Mtn Man in Flatland
Location: Great Plains, USA

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by flyingirish04 » 27 Jan 2011, 06:41

Forest Fire wrote:
flyingirish04 wrote:I have to disagree with you jay. I am very impressed with the HST line of projectiles. Nothing comes close as far as consistent expansion.

That being said, I voted with the ProtecTOR. I truly believe the hydrostatic shock received from that round would out do the impressive expansion of the HST.
The round in the poll is not a ProtecTor, but for sake of the question it doesn't really matter too much, same idea... Jay's got the ProtecTor round @ 2092fps - 389 ft/lbs -
My mistake. Its just that is the only 40gr VMAX that I would ever shoot in that situation.
Last edited by flyingirish04 on 27 Jan 2011, 07:43, edited 1 time in total.
Killed Two Stones with One Bird.

User avatar
Cyberfly
Global Moderator
Posts: 10605
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 18:44
custom title: Mens Room Attendant
Location: SE OKlahoma

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by Cyberfly » 27 Jan 2011, 06:59

SS196?
Never confuse 'The will of the Majority' with 'The will of God'.
**This post created with 100% recycled photons!**

User avatar
flyingirish04
Gold Member
Posts: 4783
Joined: 25 Aug 2008, 21:42
custom title: Mtn Man in Flatland
Location: Great Plains, USA

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by flyingirish04 » 27 Jan 2011, 07:44

I piss on SS196s and only use 197s for plinking. ;)
Killed Two Stones with One Bird.

User avatar
fatherfoof
Senior Member
Posts: 3089
Joined: 06 Dec 2008, 00:56
Location: Lone Star State

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by fatherfoof » 27 Jan 2011, 08:20

Being the 5.7 forum there is perhaps an affection for the round others may not share. I just never cared for 9mm.
Please PM Me for LE/Military Access

User avatar
Cyberfly
Global Moderator
Posts: 10605
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 18:44
custom title: Mens Room Attendant
Location: SE OKlahoma

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by Cyberfly » 27 Jan 2011, 08:21

I was going to say, they aren't worth much unless you collect your brass and reload.
The drop on them at 25 yards is sickening. When other rounds are still on the rise, SS196's are already dropping.
I had to try to qualify with them (it was all the SO could find) and adjusting for their being so underpowered caused me to have to run the qual twice. All of my 25 yard and 15 yard shots were low (aiming center mass) and were just outside of the qual line. Once I got inside the 15 yard line, they were pretty much on target.
Nothing wrong with the Hornady 40 gr bullet, they just need to put more 'oomph!' behind it.
Never confuse 'The will of the Majority' with 'The will of God'.
**This post created with 100% recycled photons!**

User avatar
iFire
Senior Member
Posts: 545
Joined: 22 Jan 2010, 06:42
custom title: FsN | PS90

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by iFire » 27 Jan 2011, 09:12

Cyberfly wrote:SS196?
SS196 has a muzzle velocity of what - maybe ~ 1600 fps?

These are MY personal loads with a muzzle velocity of 2050fps... NOT SS196

Anyway - ProtecTor or My load - same idea - powerful 5.7 round...
Blueorison wrote:If your question is under the assumption that you can shoot just as well with either caliber, and I am using my guns; even though I am able to produce the same times and accuracy with both, I would probably pick the 5.7x28mm, because of the disturbance and fragmentation it creates.
You got it. All assumptions equal, only variable is the round being used...

Mister Freeze
Senior Member
Posts: 1627
Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 11:11
custom title: 159.6
Location: Somewhere in Texas

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by Mister Freeze » 27 Jan 2011, 12:19

blueorison wrote:I don't pick a caliber in threads like "this vs that", especially all those SHTF scenarios, but I do like the simplicity of your question.

That's a pretty easy question. The number one assumption I would make in a defensive situation is that the threat has to be stopped immediately and as quickly as possible.

The NUMBER ONE priority in an unknown danger situation TO ME, is to put

1. the most rounds on target (A-zone)
2. as quickly as possible
3. and making the first shot count the most in the critical hit zone

the .454 is a great powerful round, but if you miss the first shot, or hit his foot instead of A zone, it does no good, as follow-up shots don't come quickly enough to stop the threat. That is my short enlightenment sentence to using big, high-recoiling calibers in unknown defensive situations. Of course, that doesn't mean I recommend a .22 LR.

Now, if I have to shoot the 9mm with something other than my platforms, like a regular sig (not the P210, which I find a joy to shoot), then I will pick 5.7x28mm anyday, as it only exists in the pistol form with the FsN, and I know I can do it with this pistol. This is because some 9mm guns have different physical characteristics that make them slower for follow-up shots. No matter the shooter, the advantageous of some platforms are simply mechanical and cannot be argued. (For example, you cannot argue that identical guns with identical 9mm ammo that have different lengths of trigger reset can be shot in the same time).

So you inevitably also have to consider the platform (well, I do, anyway), and which you can shoot most efficiently.

If your question is under the assumption that you can shoot just as well with either caliber, I would probably pick the 5.7x28mm, because of the disturbance and fragmentation it creates.

Sorry for the longer post.

you're so full of it your eyes are brown!

The answer is ALWAYS shot placement. ALWAYS.

PainKillaX
Senior Member
Posts: 3196
Joined: 08 Nov 2009, 21:01
custom title: I rep that west
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by PainKillaX » 27 Jan 2011, 12:26

Well, I'd prefer to have the 5.7x28. Cause I don't have a 9mm to put those bullets in :lmao:

But really, I just like everything about the FsN and its round. Until they make a 20+1 1911 chambered in .45 ACP the FsN has a place in my lineup. Hell, even after that.

romer522
Senior Member
Posts: 2494
Joined: 20 Aug 2008, 09:04
Location: WA

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by romer522 » 27 Jan 2011, 12:32

50/50, cause I'd prefer my 5.7 but the odds are if I needed to use one it would be the HST. No Kahr PM57 available :p

If it were full size vs full size I'd give the edge to the 5.7 but not by much.

User avatar
blueorison
Competition/Training Mod
Posts: 10628
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 14:28
custom title: UT/EA Pistol Captain
Contact:

Re: In a pinch, what would you prefer?

Post by blueorison » 27 Jan 2011, 14:07

PainKillaX wrote:Well, I'd prefer to have the 5.7x28. Cause I don't have a 9mm to put those bullets in :lmao:

But really, I just like everything about the FsN and its round. Until they make a 20+1 1911 chambered in .45 ACP the FsN has a place in my lineup. Hell, even after that.
They already make one. STI

@Freeze: shut up you troll :thumb:
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest