ATF Declares pistol grip shotguns Destructive Device?

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Rocky123
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ATF Declares pistol grip shotguns Destructive Device?

Post by Rocky123 » 17 Nov 2010, 20:06

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-n ... new-danger" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I screwed up this url yesterday in a different subject thread. It was suggested I start a new thread.

Apparently the ATF ruling suggested that a pistol grip shotgun was not for a sporitng use, therefore not subject to the exemption for firearms over 1/2 inch in diameter.
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User42
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Re: ATF Declares pistol grip shotguns Destructive Device?

Post by User42 » 17 Nov 2010, 20:15

Interesting. So if they decide to start collecting these "destructive devices" would they just take the shotgun, or all of your guns, considering you are now essentially a felon for owning one. Yea innocent until proven guilty,and all that jazz but I don't think it would feel that way if you were in handcuffs over it.
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Re: ATF Declares pistol grip shotguns Destructive Device?

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 17 Nov 2010, 20:21

Hahahaha, I read the whole thing, what a bunch of ASS CLOWNS the BATFE is. When I worked in DC doing my super-secret squirrel assignement helping to get the bad guys planting roadside bombs in Iraq, I had to listen to a bunch of these fools via VTC with the Army 3-star I worked for.

A shotgun isn't a shotgun?

So let me get this straight, the AFT thinks that when you DONT have a stock on a shotgun, its no longer a shotgun, and it should be registered as a destructive device..

But if you ADD a stock to a pistol, then it requires you to register it as well a-la $200 tax stamp and God-knows how long to wait for the paperwork.

So ADD and stock, Delete the stock... doensn't matter, you're a criminal, the Unconstitutional Bureaucrats in Washington have come up with a way to make just about anything illegal. They're so mired in their own red-tape regulation they couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag.

I'll be sure to pick up 2 (completely legal) Mossy 500 Persuaders next gun show i go to, WITH pistol grips, just to piss them off.

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Re: ATF Declares pistol grip shotguns Destructive Device?

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 17 Nov 2010, 20:29

User42 wrote:Interesting. So if they decide to start collecting these "destructive devices" would they just take the shotgun, or all of your guns, considering you are now essentially a felon for owning one. Yea innocent until proven guilty,and all that jazz but I don't think it would feel that way if you were in handcuffs over it.
What amuses me User42 is that the BATFE is too stupid to read the Constitution. What you are describing is called an Ex Post Facto law (Latin for "After the Fact"), which is strictly forbidden in the Constitution. It means that you can't pass a law that would instantly incriminate someone simply by something that ALREADY existed. Any attempt to do-so would be thrown-out by the Courts (At least, REAL Courts that existed prior to the Lesbo-Marshmellow Elena Kegan and her Wise-Latina Matador's Donkey punch of a friend SotoMayor *Guitar sounds from Desperado*) .

In order for them to REGULATE, which is comical, becuase most people mistake REGULATION for LEGISLATION, two totally different legal entities, they'd have to Grandfather all pistol-gripped shotguns.

What they dont' get into is this, what about pistol-gripped shoguns WITH buttstocks?

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Re: ATF Declares pistol grip shotguns Destructive Device?

Post by User42 » 17 Nov 2010, 22:20

SeaHawkDriver-B wrote:
User42 wrote:Interesting. So if they decide to start collecting these "destructive devices" would they just take the shotgun, or all of your guns, considering you are now essentially a felon for owning one. Yea innocent until proven guilty,and all that jazz but I don't think it would feel that way if you were in handcuffs over it.
What amuses me User42 is that the BATFE is too stupid to read the Constitution. What you are describing is called an Ex Post Facto law (Latin for "After the Fact"), which is strictly forbidden in the Constitution. It means that you can't pass a law that would instantly incriminate someone simply by something that ALREADY existed. Any attempt to do-so would be thrown-out by the Courts (At least, REAL Courts that existed prior to the Lesbo-Marshmellow Elena Kegan and her Wise-Latina Matador's Donkey punch of a friend SotoMayor *Guitar sounds from Desperado*) .

In order for them to REGULATE, which is comical, becuase most people mistake REGULATION for LEGISLATION, two totally different legal entities, they'd have to Grandfather all pistol-gripped shotguns.

What they dont' get into is this, what about pistol-gripped shoguns WITH buttstocks?
Exactly. Mine even has an "evil", "tactical", retractable buttstock. Good thing I keep it locked away, so it doesn't go on any random killing sprees on it's own.
If a man dedicates his life to good deeds and the welfare of others, He will die unthanked and unremembered. If he exercises his genius bringing death and misery to billions, his name will echo down through the millennia for a hundred lifetimes.

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Re: ATF Declares pistol grip shotguns Destructive Device?

Post by Esteves » 17 Nov 2010, 22:55

Read the ATF newsletter that the examiner article points to. http://www.nfaoa.org/documents/ffl-news ... 009-11.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ATF did not declare pistol grip shotguns ("cruiser" models) to be destructive devices. The short version is that they said it doesn't fit into the "long gun" bucket, and a purchaser needs to be 21 years old and must be a resident of the state where the transfer occurs (same rules as handguns.)

They have, in the past, made rulings that certain shotguns are DDs: http://www.preventtyranny.com/Sources/G ... g_94-2.PDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; but those rulings were based on laws that were on the books at the time.

I don't like the maze of laws and regulations either, but I blame the legislators and I tell them so every time I vote.
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PainKillaX
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Re: ATF Declares pistol grip shotguns Destructive Device?

Post by PainKillaX » 18 Nov 2010, 02:41

You can of course buy a Mossy 500, take out a screw or two, and pop a $25 pistol grip on there too. And a foregrip on the action but the one I tried didn't feel right.

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Re: ATF Declares pistol grip shotguns Destructive Device?

Post by fzr confused » 18 Nov 2010, 10:58

My 500 came with a buttstock and a pistol grip, neither of which are on the gun in favor of my retractable stock.

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Re: ATF Declares pistol grip shotguns Destructive Device?

Post by smpsmp » 06 Mar 2011, 15:57

I read the articles everyone posted, and I know it's been a little while since anyone posted on here. I looked on google and what not, but does anyone know what the end result (if there was one yet) was? The reason I ask is cause I'm usually not to good with paperwork and lawyer talk (yes I'm that person that has walked into a gun shop, have a LTCF for PA, and was carrying, and then went to buy another gun, and checked a box wrong on the form). The reason I ask is because an 870 I use quite a bit for hunting I constantly swap the stock on it, for waterfowl I use a standard speed feed stock, and for turkey I use the knoxx compstock with the pistol grip. The barrel is 18.5", and I know that's an odd length to use for what I'm doing with it, but for swinging in the boat I always thought it was easier to pick up and swing quick with a shorter barrel, and for walking deep into the woods for where I hunt turkey I like the shorter barrel for all the brush. Any advice that anyone can give is appreciated.

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