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Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 23 Sep 2012, 17:28
by blueorison
The company behind the Tavor is building/built a factory here in the US.

Tavors will be available in the future.

I was excited about their entry into the bullpup world, when they first came out. However, I heard of some growing pains and issues. Hopefully they are resolved. The Tavor would make a great PDW to 300 yds weapon.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012 ... ng-to-usa/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 23 Sep 2012, 18:14
by Esteves
Small Arms Review just covered the IWI X95
A direct derivation from the TAR-21 Tavor bullpup rifle, adopted in 2003 by the Israel Defence Forces, we are going to introduce to SAR readers the version designed for the Sayeret (Special Forces) units, a shorter and more modular rifle that, in case of need, can be converted into an SMG.

The TAR-21 project in Ramat Hasharon was started in 1995 when the Israeli company name was still IMI (Israel Military Industries). In recent times, IMI ownership has been handed over from the State of Israel to a private company, the Samy Katsav Group (the same holding that includes also Meprolight, Selectron International Optronics and Global Shields) and changed its name to Israel Weapon Industries or IWI.

More...

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 24 Sep 2012, 09:47
by panzermk2
Supposedly they have finally debugged them and they work.

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 24 Sep 2012, 09:59
by Rapier1772
panzermk2 wrote:Supposedly they have finally debugged them and they work.
In that case, I want one :D
EDIT: I want one when it comes in another caliber :skep:

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 24 Sep 2012, 13:41
by Piston Driven
:drool: C'mon dont tempt me so! This will take years and probably cost about 3k! Don't tempt me temptress !!!!!! :evil:

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 24 Sep 2012, 14:00
by blueorison
Piston Driven wrote::drool: C'mon dont tempt me so! This will take years and probably cost about 3k! Don't tempt me temptress !!!!!! :evil:
Rapier1772 wrote:
panzermk2 wrote:Supposedly they have finally debugged them and they work.
In that case, I want one :D

When they first came out, I did everything to try to find out how to get one.

I still think they could be a great asset. However, if I got one, I'd most likely take a hacksaw, dremel, and heatgun out and redo the ergonomics.

Beyond that, once they come out with a .308 variant, the niche filled by the Keltec RFB will finally have a partner. And this partner might just eke out the RFB, in my mind, if the quality is made to a higher degree. The trigger, for a bullpup, on the RFB, is pretty good, though. Although, I'm sure that drop-in aftermarkets will be envisioned and produced for the Tavor.

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 24 Sep 2012, 15:09
by panzermk2
blueorison wrote:
Piston Driven wrote::drool: C'mon dont tempt me so! This will take years and probably cost about 3k! Don't tempt me temptress !!!!!! :evil:
Rapier1772 wrote:
panzermk2 wrote:Supposedly they have finally debugged them and they work.
In that case, I want one :D

When they first came out, I did everything to try to find out how to get one.

I still think they could be a great asset. However, if I got one, I'd most likely take a hacksaw, dremel, and heatgun out and redo the ergonomics.

Beyond that, once they come out with a .308 variant, the niche filled by the Keltec RFB will finally have a partner. And this partner might just eke out the RFB, in my mind, if the quality is made to a higher degree. The trigger, for a bullpup, on the RFB, is pretty good, though. Although, I'm sure that drop-in aftermarkets will be envisioned and produced for the Tavor.

That full hand guard would have to go. Why of why do so many bullpup makers go with a full hand guards?

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 24 Sep 2012, 15:41
by blueorison
$2k price point? Might as well get the SCAR 16 for almost the same price.

That is one over-priced gun if they are going to sell it past $1200. Even at $1200, that is overpriced. It's probably a fair price at $800.

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 24 Sep 2012, 16:13
by srt-4_jon
Even the MSAR STG was more than $800 and it was a copy of an existing design. There is no way the Tavor is a $800 gun.

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 24 Sep 2012, 16:36
by blueorison
srt-4_jon wrote:Even the MSAR STG was more than $800 and it was a copy of an existing design. There is no way the Tavor is a $800 gun.
It won't be but it should be. It has more plastic than any AR carbine; take the Colt's that you can buy for $900. They are probably more accurate than the Tavor and have many more machined parts rather than really-to-produce-plastic-parts on the Tavor, and they are only $900.

The MSAR was way overpriced, and everyone knew it. Except the mall ninjas.

When they were going under or needed to liquidate, you found them right under $1k. Wonder why. :thumb:

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 24 Sep 2012, 18:21
by srt-4_jon
blueorison wrote: It won't be but it should be. It has more plastic than any AR carbine; take the Colt's that you can buy for $900. They are probably more accurate than the Tavor and have many more machined parts rather than really-to-produce-plastic-parts on the Tavor, and they are only $900.
That last sentence can be said for the SCAR, ACR, FS2000, AUG and every other new black rifle.

Also, quantity has a lot to do with the pricing as well. Everyone knows the more you build, the cheaper it will be. How many Colt ARs are out there vs. Tavors?
When they were going under or needed to liquidate, you found them right under $1k. Wonder why. :thumb:
Right under $1k is still more than $800. I assume price dropped was because the sellers had to motivate buyers that knew there wasn't going to be any more factory support for parts/warranty. I brought up the MSAR because they mimicked an existing design and didn't have near the R&D of a brand new design. And even with the significantly lower start up cost, the rifles were still more than $800.

Considering how much RFBs are going for, I dont see why the Tavor wont sell in the same area considering the Tavor isnt held together with allen screws and nuts.

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 24 Sep 2012, 18:31
by blueorison
Yeah... but the RFB's are .308

And when they come out, I'm sure the "new to market/I want it!" effect will hit the gun-buyers and the inflated prices would hold for a while.

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 25 Sep 2012, 15:51
by Piston Driven
:thumb: I think y'all are dreamers! This will most likely take years as these things go! :(

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 30 Sep 2012, 21:27
by blueorison


****.

I want one. It probably won't use it much in competition, but in other fields I would definitely use it.

I guess this is going to go up against the Steyr AUG's latest variant, which is making a comeback to the US. Big factors will be price and I'm 100% sure the AUG is going to win in accuracy and quality, so this will have to be significantly lower. Plus, the AUG is a more "proven" design; bugs are worked out, etc.

This might be lighter, though. And if it can hold decent MOA and the trigger can be pretty decent, then....

All my thoughts are worthless, probably, since I won't be able to afford them :laugh:

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 30 Sep 2012, 21:41
by panzermk2
AUG is to damn heavy.

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 30 Sep 2012, 22:32
by blueorison
Yes, it is.

Then again, maybe my draw to it is because there is really no other viable bullpup carbine besides the RFB on the market.

Actually, now that I think on it, that is the majority reason why I like the Tavor;

there really aren't any other viable bullpup carbines out there. Even when the MSAR came out... I didn't like it. Don't care for the AUGs, either, because they are heavy.

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 30 Sep 2012, 22:50
by Rapier1772
I've shot Tomac's AUG, I didn't think it was heavy. But then I am used to the FS2K which is a little heavier. After this vid, I think I am better off sticking with my 2K :skep:
One of the things is that I like being able to switch back & forth (RH to LH) without changing the configuration of the rifle. Yeah, the TAVOR kicks the shells forward but I still prefer the brass not flying in front of my face :laugh:

I do like the TAVOR's hold open & bolt release, plus it looks like the mag changes are easier.

If I could fix the fracking trigger, the 2K would rule! :laugh:

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 30 Sep 2012, 23:42
by blueorison
I forgot about the 2K!

That is an awesome bullpup! And of course, FN's famous INGENIUS, mindblowing designs.

Everything is modular, and contained in compact modules, just like on the 90. Hm.. if I keep having to refer to FN platforms using numbers... 16...17... I guess the FsN would be the only lettered platform...

The 2K definitely is in the niche with the Tavor and AUG/MSAR. There are a few others out there, but they do not live on the level.

The Tavor is still lower-profile, which is a big thing for me. I'm sure they will come out with a drop-in trigger and aftermarket for it.

That's odd that they don't make a drop-in for the 2K.. did you check?

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 01 Oct 2012, 01:03
by Rapier1772
Yeah, & found a couple of DIY pointers which I may try but no new trigger pack. Not like the PS90 change out anyway...

Re: Israel's TAVOR

Posted: 01 Oct 2012, 04:31
by Esteves
blueorison wrote:Hm.. if I keep having to refer to FN platforms using numbers... 16...17... I guess the FsN would be the only lettered platform...
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