FiveseveNForum.com

Plus he was having a blast doing. Kinda cool when a guy who has shot more then most of us will ever do in a lifetime gets giddy as a school girl over a rifle.

One came into my Class 2. I got to handle it and dryfire it. It was fun.

I can see improvements. Waiting for the 95 to judge.

The trigger is no biggie and no problem. Frankly, the FS2000 trigger makes the TAVOR trigger feel like some kind of precision/custom trigger.

Looks like accuracy is fine, just as I expected. The barrel markings on the specimen I checked out indicated CHF.

1-1.5 MOA @ 100 yds

well, I ordered a Tavor and it finally came in Friday......I plan on going out this weekend to get down and personal with it

(all your fault Jon/Jeff --more on Jeff, such good reviews )

Jon - I did that competition, did a interesting one. I'll post a longer message and a video on it...thanks for those designs!

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize
how hard it is putting up with all the idots in the world." -Calvin

Congrats on your purchase, I'm sure you will fall in love with the gun! To me it's kinda like a 5.56 version of the PS90/AR57. I'm not sure why, but once you start shooting, it's really hard not to empty the magazine. I don't have that problem with my DPMS AR15 variant. Maybe it's the ergonomics, I dunno...

There's just something about the Tavor.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts Lobo.

Lobo wrote:well, I ordered a Tavor and it finally came in Friday......I plan on going out this weekend to get down and personal with it

(all your fault Jon/Jeff --more on Jeff, such good reviews )

Jon - I did that competition, did a interesting one. I'll post a longer message and a video on it...thanks for those designs!

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize
how hard it is putting up with all the idots in the world." -Calvin

Awesome job, Lobo. It sounds like it worked out for you and I'm glad.

In case anyone is interested, this is the first time I have seen the Tavor selling for less than the MSRP of $1,999. No CC fees either.

It may be just for today though...

http://grabagun.com/iwi-tavor-sar-b16-5 ... +IWI+Tavor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Had one at the gun show this last weekend, $1800. Got to hold it but couldn't cycle /dry fire it. I like the ergonomics but not sure about the ejection port should I need to shift over to a lefty for a couple of rounds around a corner.

Hey, if you were closer to FL you could come shoot mine and see for yourself. It is so much more ergonomic than my AR15 IMHO that it's not even funny. If you don't need to hang a bunch-o-accessories off of it, I would pick the Tavor every day of the week.

I'd also definitely want to try the trigger before I buy another bullpup. Careful, I may go on a roadtrip for Christmas & take you up on it :laugh:

The trigger has gotten a lot better with use. It doesn't compare to one of my Timney triggers, but it's infinitly better then my stock DPMS trigger. Come on down and try...

jgreenberg01 wrote:The trigger has gotten a lot better with use. It doesn't compare to one of my Timney triggers, but it's infinitly better then my stock DPMS trigger. Come on down and try...

I wanna come try.

Aw heck, everyone is invited. Just make your way to FL...

I plan on shooting the Tavor tomorrow, maybe some exploding targets too. Will get some of it on video.

GAME OVER, JEFFSTER!!!

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013 ... rm+Blog%29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

YESSSS.

AND CDNN is selling it for 1800$

Yes, the pricetag is 300+, but retail is probably more of $290

Wow, I guess I know what my next purchase might be...

jgreenberg01 wrote:Wow, I guess I know what my next purchase might be...

I'm heading out for the last segment of 5.7x28mm IIIA testing

Maybe if I blow up my FsN I can buy a new MkII...

And a TAVOR....

I know that had no correlation but I needed some made-up excuse, no matter how terrible.

Well if anyone can blow up a FsN, it would be you Blue! I can heartily recommend the FsN MkII, but the Tavor is a bird of a different flavor.

Thankfully the price is coming down, but if you already own an AR15 varient then the Tavor becomes an extravagant expense. Unless you really like bullpup rifles, or unless you want a 5.56 rifle that is at least as fun to shoot as a PS90 is. Or if you have a bunch-o-cash just burning a hole in your pocket.

Oh hell, who am I kidding? If you aren't biased against bullpups, then the Tavor is a must have (IMHO of course)!

If (when?) the zombie apocalypse ever comes around, I am so gonna be dual wielding my PS90 and the Tavor. NO ONE is gonna look as tacticool as me while taking out the herd of oncoming shamblers!!!!

jgreenberg01 wrote:Well if anyone can blow up a FsN, it would be you Blue! I can heartily recommend the FsN MkII, but the Tavor is a bird of a different flavor.

Thankfully the price is coming down, but if you already own an AR15 varient then the Tavor becomes an extravagant expense. Unless you really like bullpup rifles, or unless you want a 5.56 rifle that is at least as fun to shoot as a PS90 is. Or if you have a bunch-o-cash just burning a hole in your pocket.

Oh hell, who am I kidding? If you aren't biased against bullpups, then the Tavor is a must have (IMHO of course)!

If (when?) the zombie apocalypse ever comes around, I am so gonna be dual wielding my PS90 and the Tavor. NO ONE is gonna look as tacticool as me while taking out the herd of oncoming shamblers!!!!

LOL

My FsN didn't blow up. I shot mostly EA and FN but had two custom reloaded rounds, one with custom bullets. I didn't really care if it blew up my FsN. Doing is more important than sitting on something and never knowing.

Good risks.

The testing went superbly well. I learned a lot. And I'm finally done with testing 302840384 different rounds and having clay stuck in my nails for days.

OK, OK, OK! I gotta have a Tavor. Anybody wanna trade me one for my mint LMT AR (high end piston model).

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/compone ... l?Itemid=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1679 for black 16inch

I order one today.... I am so excited... FDE 16 inch.... :drool: I can't wait to hold her!!!!!

You boys will poop a pickle when I tell you how much I paid...

:p

Awesome, it looks like we'll have a couple of options between that and Timney's drop-in trigger. Both will be in the 4lb range, both are drop-in, they will both ship in March 2014 and will be about the same price.

Geissele will be 2 stage and Timney will be 1 stage. Decisions, decisions...

Thanks for posting the video!

Monday evening can not come soon enough....

Reverend Herc wrote:Monday evening can not come soon enough....

TAVOR + G/Timney Trigger + Comp = win.

Best backpack carbine.

blueorison wrote: TAVOR + G/Timney Trigger + Comp = win.
Best backpack carbine.

http://www.timneytriggers.com/index.php ... Itemid=100" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

$352 big ones.... dang...

Maybe for next christmas.. Right now I am trying to figure out the Optics...

Some help would be nice!

Reverend Herc wrote:

blueorison wrote: TAVOR + G/Timney Trigger + Comp = win.
Best backpack carbine.

http://www.timneytriggers.com/index.php ... Itemid=100" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

$352 big ones.... dang...

Maybe for next christmas.. Right now I am trying to figure out the Optics...

Some help would be nice!

Application?

300 yds and under, get an Aimpoint

beyond, get a 1-6x

stay away from busy reticles.

Apparently there is a new Tavor trigger besides the G and Timney triggers; Shooting Sight.

blueorison wrote:Apparently there is a new Tavor trigger besides the G and Timney triggers; Shooting Sight.

Hmm, still in the $300 range. I think that I will stick to a known quantity like Timney or Geisellie.

Reverend Herc wrote:

blueorison wrote: TAVOR + G/Timney Trigger + Comp = win.
Best backpack carbine.

http://www.timneytriggers.com/index.php ... Itemid=100" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

$352 big ones.... dang...

Maybe for next christmas.. Right now I am trying to figure out the Optics...

Some help would be nice!

I agree with Blue - KISS when it comes to the reticle on the Tavor. Because it's a bullpup, I didn't really think that I would use the Tavor for anything long distance and I am a big fan of EOTech's holographic weapons sights. In fact I have their XPS2-2 on my AR57 and PS90. However, my eyes have recently decided to betray me and anything more than 25 yards has started to look like a blob. That's a big "does not compute" for me because, well, see my videos of shooting gummy bears. There's just something really cool IMHO about being able to hit something really small.

So bearing that in mind, I got the EOTech G33 flip to side 3x magnifier just in case I needed to reach out and though something small-ish. I considered going that route, but I wanted to try something different. I have an ACOG that I thought about for about 32 seconds but I didn't like the idea of the fixed 4x magnification - I wanted to start with 1x.

So I chose an expensive compromise: the Leupold Mark 4 MR/T 1.5-5x20mm M2. I figured that if I didn't like it then I could put it on another rifle but soon figured out that the 1.5x still offered very quick acquisition and if I ever needed to shoot at any kind of distance, then the 5x was more than enough to get the job done.

Anywho, to make a long story long - the Leupold is staying put on the Tavor.

Just my $0.02 and as always, YMMV.

jgreenberg01 wrote:

blueorison wrote:Apparently there is a new Tavor trigger besides the G and Timney triggers; Shooting Sight.

Hmm, still in the $300 range. I think that I will stick to a known quantity like Timney or Geisellie.

Reverend Herc wrote:

blueorison wrote: TAVOR + G/Timney Trigger + Comp = win.
Best backpack carbine.

http://www.timneytriggers.com/index.php ... Itemid=100" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

$352 big ones.... dang...

Maybe for next christmas.. Right now I am trying to figure out the Optics...

Some help would be nice!

I agree with Blue - KISS when it comes to the reticle on the Tavor. Because it's a bullpup, I didn't really think that I would use the Tavor for anything long distance and I am a big fan of EOTech's holographic weapons sights. In fact I have their XPS2-2 on my AR57 and PS90. However, my eyes have recently decided to betray me and anything more than 25 yards has started to look like a blob. That's a big "does not compute" for me because, well, see my videos of shooting gummy bears. There's just something really cool IMHO about being able to hit something really small.

So bearing that in mind, I got the EOTech G33 flip to side 3x magnifier just in case I needed to reach out and though something small-ish. I considered going that route, but I wanted to try something different. I have an ACOG that I thought about for about 32 seconds but I didn't like the idea of the fixed 4x magnification - I wanted to start with 1x.

So I chose an expensive compromise: the Leupold Mark 4 MR/T 1.5-5x20mm M2. I figured that if I didn't like it then I could put it on another rifle but soon figured out that the 1.5x still offered very quick acquisition and if I ever needed to shoot at any kind of distance, then the 5x was more than enough to get the job done.

Anywho, to make a long story long - the Leupold is staying put on the Tavor.

Just my $0.02 and as always, YMMV.

I bought the same Leupold scope! when I go to the range, I make converts for this model. Now if I could just trade my AR15 for a Tavor. (Hint)

JoJo wrote:I bought the same Leupold scope! when I go to the range, I make converts for this model. Now if I could just trade my AR15 for a Tavor. (Hint)

Well you obviously have wonderful taste in optics. Oh and that trade, I'd be happy to do it... if you threw in a car (hint) :p

jgreenberg01 wrote:

JoJo wrote:I bought the same Leupold scope! when I go to the range, I make converts for this model. Now if I could just trade my AR15 for a Tavor. (Hint)

Well you obviously have wonderful taste in optics. Oh and that trade, I'd be happy to do it... if you threw in a car (hint) :p

I actually have a 1960 Fiat 500 (500 cc) that I will throw in......make that tow in. DEAL?

blueorison wrote:
Application?

300 yds and under, get an Aimpoint

beyond, get a 1-6x

stay away from busy reticles.

An Aimpoint will have me sleeping on the couch. I don't want that.
I have to find a reasonable alternative for less money. I was thinking about moving my eotech from my ps90 to the tavor and getting something else for the ps90. Some suggestions would be helpful. Please I blew the budget in the last six months on guns. Two sig p938s, a ruger mini-thirty, and now the Tavor. Oh and don't forget about 4000 rds in ammo for each gun. So reasonable optics just to get me 6-8 months down the road.

Reverend Herc wrote:

blueorison wrote:
Application?

300 yds and under, get an Aimpoint

beyond, get a 1-6x

stay away from busy reticles.

An Aimpoint will have me sleeping on the couch. I don't want that.
I have to find a reasonable alternative for less money. I was thinking about moving my eotech from my ps90 to the tavor and getting something else for the ps90. Some suggestions would be helpful. Please I blew the budget in the last six months on guns. Two sig p938s, a ruger mini-thirty, and now the Tavor. Oh and don't forget about 4000 rds in ammo for each gun. So reasonable optics just to get me 6-8 months down the road.

Don't have to get an Aimpoint; it was just a generic way of saying get an unmagnified red dot optic.

Vortex SPARC cost a zillion times less!

blueorison wrote:
Don't have to get an Aimpoint; it was just a generic way of saying get an unmagnified red dot optic.

Vortex SPARC cost a zillion times less!

Thank you for the English Translation!!!

We went to the range a few hours ago. Everything was as amazing as I would have imagined. I used the fold up iron sights for a couple hundred rounds. Everything was flawless. I am thinking that I may re-purpose my Eotech onto my Tavor and then buy a Vortec or Cmore sight for my ps90. I havent been to the range for recreation in over a year and a half. I miss my "guy" time, however my lil one is almost a year old.... She is why I should practice more....

Reverend Herc wrote:We went to the range a few hours ago. Everything was as amazing as I would have imagined. I used the fold up iron sights for a couple hundred rounds. Everything was flawless. I am thinking that I may re-purpose my Eotech onto my Tavor and then buy a Vortec or Cmore sight for my ps90. I havent been to the range for recreation in over a year and a half. I miss my "guy" time, however my lil one is almost a year old.... She is why I should practice more....

:thumb:

Reverend Herc wrote:We went to the range a few hours ago. Everything was as amazing as I would have imagined. I used the fold up iron sights for a couple hundred rounds. Everything was flawless. I am thinking that I may re-purpose my Eotech onto my Tavor and then buy a Vortec or Cmore sight for my ps90. I havent been to the range for recreation in over a year and a half. I miss my "guy" time, however my lil one is almost a year old.... She is why I should practice more....

Come on up to North Florida and we can dual-wield Tavors!

Actually, I may be heading to the Pompano beach area in the next few weeks. I could always throw the Tavor and maybe another gun or three in the trunk.

Reverend Herc wrote:

blueorison wrote:
Application?

300 yds and under, get an Aimpoint

beyond, get a 1-6x

stay away from busy reticles.

An Aimpoint will have me sleeping on the couch. I don't want that.
I have to find a reasonable alternative for less money. I was thinking about moving my eotech from my ps90 to the tavor and getting something else for the ps90. Some suggestions would be helpful. Please I blew the budget in the last six months on guns. Two sig p938s, a ruger mini-thirty, and now the Tavor. Oh and don't forget about 4000 rds in ammo for each gun. So reasonable optics just to get me 6-8 months down the road.

I have the Tavor IDF model. I wanted it as the Mepro M21 mounts directly to the barrel. I have the triangle model M21 stock which is the best of both worlds IMO. Use the tip of the triangle for longer range & the lower half for CQB. The IDF uses this setup, so it's proven with the Tavor.

I also did some early upgrades to it as well maybe I'll get some pics posted up. I'm on the list for the 1st run of the Shooting Sight trigger, as I think it is the best between the 3 options soon to be available to the public.

Scar_Shooter wrote:I have the Tavor IDF model. I wanted it as the Mepro M21 mounts directly to the barrel. I have the triangle model M21 stock which is the best of both worlds IMO. Use the tip of the triangle for longer range & the lower half for CQB. The IDF uses this setup, so it's proven with the Tavor.

I also did some early upgrades to it as well maybe I'll get some pics posted up. I'm on the list for the 1st run of the Shooting Sight trigger, as I think it is the best between the 3 options soon to be available to the public.

Yes, because:
:ttiwwp:

jgreenberg01 wrote: Come on up to North Florida and we can dual-wield Tavors!

Actually, I may be heading to the Pompano beach area in the next few weeks. I could always throw the Tavor and maybe another gun or three in the trunk.

Dang, my plans to head up to North Florida are postponed till next month. However, if you are heading to Pompano Beach we should definitely meet up and hit a range.

Dual-wielding Tavors

jgreenberg01 wrote:Awesome, it looks like we'll have a couple of options between that and Timney's drop-in trigger. Both will be in the 4lb range, both are drop-in, they will both ship in March 2014 and will be about the same price.

Geissele will be 2 stage and Timney will be 1 stage. Decisions, decisions...

Thanks for posting the video!

just ordered the timmey trigger tonight, will let you know how it is in March

(been super busy at work.......all those evil people around the world :lmao: )

"Bother", said Pooh, as he centered the sights on Tigger.

How much did you have to adjust the Iron sites from factory? Mine seems to shoot high right at 25 yards. I have not had a chance to shoot it at longer distances. What distance did y'all sight in your rifle?

Reverend Herc wrote:How much did you have to adjust the Iron sites from factory? Mine seems to shoot high right at 25 yards. I have not had a chance to shoot it at longer distances. What distance did y'all sight in your rifle?

Did you ever pick up a phone to call a friend and as you were about dial, you realized that you had no idea what the number was? I was about to answer your question when I realized that I never zeroed in the Tavor using its iron sights - I mounted an optic from day 1 and never took it off.

I'll try the iron sights the next time I hit the range and will let you know what the POI is at 25 yards.

As for the sight-in distance, I typically zero rifles at 50 yards, That way I know it's just about a 1" adjustment at either 25 or 100 yards. Also a 50 yard zero is typically very close at 200 yards (depending on the ammo used, height over bore, etc...). Mine is zeroed at 50 and is also about 1" off at 200 yards. Not that it really matters that much because it's not quite a MOA rifle - not gonna do any precision shooting with the Tavor.

I am still putting nickels together for "optics". So until then I am rocking the Iron sights. I appreciate you taking the time to give it a look for me.

Much thanks,

Greg

Here she is, her name is "Madison".... I still do not know what type of optics she will be wearing, but I am leaning towards eotech, but part of me wants an aimpoint pro.

Hello Madison!

jgreenberg01 wrote:Hello Madison!

:thumb:

Does anyone know if the smaller version came out yet? I had the 21 but had to sell it. With body armor, the length of pull was way to long. If they would/could shorten the LOP on the 21 about 3 inches, it would be great. Mine actually had quite a nice trigger for a bullpup.

Lil Madison is going for a doctor check up on Monday. The front sight is hard left, for her to shoot straight. It seems to be a known issue. They were very nice to send a UPS shipping notice and hopefully she will be back in my arms soon. Until then my PS90; my first love, will return to front line duties....

Ill keep you updated...

Reverend

I dry fired one last week, the trigger is terrible.
$1900 for the rifle but then you gotta spend another $300+ to fix the trigger? That's rude.

I paid $1586 plus $10 shipping and handling to FFL. FFL transfer and background, plus tax add another $15.00 to that. Not bad, I don't regret it.

My trigger when I tested it was about 8.5 lbs before shooting. I feel after a couple of hundred rounds it has gotten better, but by no means is it great or comparable to some of the rifles I have shot. I see this as an investment because regardless of what rifle I would have bought I would have added upgrades to it regardless. Most people who own AR's and shoot regularly modify their rifle in excess of the price they spent on it.

To put this into perspective; When I am ready, I will see a trigger upgrade on my Tavor, like putting Michelin tires on my car. I do not necessary need premium tires but it sure feels a lot nicer than the alternative.........

At that price, I wouldn't mind as much. Regular price is typically $1900-$2100 from what I've seen in stores, so $1600+$300 trigger is pretty much breaking even IMO.

My PTR had an 8lb trigger when I got it, I had to have the trigger reworked & I wasn't happy about it. Guess I'm crazy for expecting decent operation when I fork over that much money.
BTW, I am pretty sure the trigger pull on the TAVOR I tried out was over 15lbs.

Rapier1772 wrote:At that price, I wouldn't mind as much. Regular price is typically $1900-$2100 from what I've seen in stores, so $1600+$300 trigger is pretty much breaking even IMO.

My PTR had an 8lb trigger when I got it, I had to have the trigger reworked & I wasn't happy about it. Guess I'm crazy for expecting decent operation when I fork over that much money.
BTW, I am pretty sure the trigger pull on the TAVOR I tried out was over 15lbs.

Mine was 14lbs when I got it. I little work and a bunch-o-rounds and it's down to 8lbs.

With regard to the trigger: I was really disappointed when I first fired mine, but then I started to think that maybe my expectations were not set properly.

1) It's a bullpup and they will always have trigger issues, and while it was heavy, it wasn't the least bit mushy
2) This really is designed as a battle rifle, it's not a bench rest rifle - I wonder if the folks in the IDF complain about its trigger?
3) I don't know about you, but I'm used to shooting my ARs that all have 4# Timney triggers which makes for an unfair comparison. Even my 10/22 has a Timney trigger
4) IMHO, I think I've been spoiled by my other rifles, aside from the PS90 (also a bullpup) which is pretty darn mushy
5) Thinking back, pretty much all of my rifles had rough(ish) triggers out of the box, a couple of them felt as if I was pulling it through a mile of gravel before the bang

I could be wrong about this being an expectation issue, but since I came to that conclusion I have talked to several others, some Tavor owners, some not, who agree.

As always, YMMV.

mine is about the same, so I got a timmy trigger, dropped in really easy, nice 3-4 pd pull......but then I strated getting light primer strikes (about 1 of 3), so I emailed timmy....they sent a kit for me to change out. so that will happen this week and I'll take her out this weekend (yea, yea, photos will be posted with it.... )

"In those days, men were real men, women were real women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were REAL small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri"

Are they just sending a stiffer spring or what?

good thing I checked the posts before logging off.....(but you made me re-open up my email)

this is what was said in the last email from their service department "I am going to send you a new hammer spring and a new spring for your firing pin. This should eliminate your light primer strike problem"

emails were done within two days, package showed up a week later.......

All I did was torture hundreds of innocent people, wipe out an entire generation of Jedi, assist in destroying the rightful government in exchange for a malevolent dictatorship, destroy a planet, torture my daughter that I didn't even know existed, chop off my son's hand and I'm the bad guy.
--Darth Varder pet peeve

Torture Test: ShootingSight TAV-D Tavor Trigger
By Jeremy S on August 15, 2014













http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201 ... false;

Awesome. Now I know what I am buying me for Christmas.

That's really impressive. I've always been a Timney guy, but this is definitely something to consider as a replacement trigger in my Tavor.

Lobo wrote:good thing I checked the posts before logging off.....(but you made me re-open up my email)

this is what was said in the last email from their service department "I am going to send you a new hammer spring and a new spring for your firing pin. This should eliminate your light primer strike problem"

emails were done within two days, package showed up a week later.......

All I did was torture hundreds of innocent people, wipe out an entire generation of Jedi, assist in destroying the rightful government in exchange for a malevolent dictatorship, destroy a planet, torture my daughter that I didn't even know existed, chop off my son's hand and I'm the bad guy.
--Darth Varder pet peeve

well, I put all the stuff in except for the one spring since I wasn't sure (hammer spring) how to do it, so I emailed them back, asking for some good directions or even a hand written note *grin*, got this great reply back telling me to hold on, just ship it back and they'll send one back totally done right.
did so, now my Tavor works like a dream, light pull and no more LPS. so bottom line, to me a Timmey trigger is outstanding and their customer service is just as outstanding (although I don't know why they send a lollypop each time......)

life is good

Mom and Dad say I should make my life an example of the principles I believe
in. But every time I do, they tell me to stop it. - Calvin/

Lobo wrote:

Lobo wrote:good thing I checked the posts before logging off.....(but you made me re-open up my email)

this is what was said in the last email from their service department "I am going to send you a new hammer spring and a new spring for your firing pin. This should eliminate your light primer strike problem"

emails were done within two days, package showed up a week later.......

All I did was torture hundreds of innocent people, wipe out an entire generation of Jedi, assist in destroying the rightful government in exchange for a malevolent dictatorship, destroy a planet, torture my daughter that I didn't even know existed, chop off my son's hand and I'm the bad guy.
--Darth Varder pet peeve

well, I put all the stuff in except for the one spring since I wasn't sure (hammer spring) how to do it, so I emailed them back, asking for some good directions or even a hand written note *grin*, got this great reply back telling me to hold on, just ship it back and they'll send one back totally done right.
did so, now my Tavor works like a dream, light pull and no more LPS. so bottom line, to me a Timmey trigger is outstanding and their customer service is just as outstanding (although I don't know why they send a lollypop each time......)

life is good

Mom and Dad say I should make my life an example of the principles I believe
in. But every time I do, they tell me to stop it. - Calvin/

Heard about the light strikes through MAC, etc. Good to know they are fixing it. Timney is a solid company, so it makes sense.