Military Sniper Rifle

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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by flyingirish04 » 10 Sep 2012, 19:07

You ever shot TCs Icons? May be best gun for money right now. Might buy one in 6.5Creed. Get it tuned in and have for friends/family to use when the fly in to hunt yotes with me. Doesnt happen too often, but Better than the tikka I let em use now.
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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by jmz5 » 11 Sep 2012, 04:16

I like my 12f in 6.5x284, but it's only single shot and not tactical at all. Currently looking at 6.5 creedmoor, or 6.5 x 47 Lapua as my next project.
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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by chrisbuser » 11 Sep 2012, 04:57

toyslr wrote:Remington 700 in .308 is one of the most prolific weapons in any aresenal! The action is used in many of the premier "sharp shooter" rifle builds out there and the 700R is one of the best out of the box sub 2" rifle out there
Remington 700 has a history of problems with accidental discharge due to faulty trigger connector. Research specific model carefully before purchase. 308 is an excellent choice of caliber.
This comment is ridiculous and a overhype by Remington "hater"s, its like saying a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry are stolen more than any other car. Yea dumbass because there are three times as many on the street!! LOL....
I don't hate Remington, but I do prefer the AR10 platform over bolt action

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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by toyslr » 11 Sep 2012, 06:21

AR series .308's aren't bad but there is a reason most shooters in the military are throwing down the M110 and going back to either bolts or M1A1's

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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by flyingirish04 » 11 Sep 2012, 06:50

ARs are entirely overpriced. You need to spend three times as much for one to shoot half as well as a bolt gun. The military snipers uses the 308 simply because it is a standard NATO round. Most that can shoot at least a 300 win mag now, and even more are going to the 338 Lapua. The 308 is used more for sniper school now and closer in urban over watch missions.

If you are paying for it, you owe it to yourself to use something other than the 308, and unless you are spending 3k for a custom billet AR, you are wasting money on a gun that can't shoot MOA consistently. And won't hold it past a few hundred yards.

Sure u can fire it fast, but for precision shooting, it is not the best platform for the money. Not even close.
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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by flyingirish04 » 11 Sep 2012, 06:51

jmz5 wrote:I like my 12f in 6.5x284, but it's only single shot and not tactical at all. Currently looking at 6.5 creedmoor, or 6.5 x 47 Lapua as my next project.
To with the Lapua if you are building it. More costly but much better components.
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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by jgreenberg01 » 11 Sep 2012, 06:58

flyingirish04 wrote:ARs are entirely overpriced. You need to spend three times as much for one to shoot half as well as a bolt gun. The military snipers uses the 308 simply because it is a standard NATO round. Most that can shoot at least a 300 win mag now, and even more are going to the 338 Lapua. The 308 is used more for sniper school now and closer in urban over watch missions.

If you are paying for it, you owe it to yourself to use something other than the 308, and unless you are spending 3k for a custom billet AR, you are wasting money on a gun that can't shoot MOA consistently. And won't hold it past a few hundred yards.

Sure u can fire it fast, but for precision shooting, it is not the best platform for the money. Not even close.
Irish - I recently took my LR308 out to 500 yards for the first time. but with an el-cheapo scope. Previously the farthest range I had access to was 200 yards and it could pretty much hit a quarter consistently.

I am wondering what you would expect the best consistent groups to be from an AR10 at 500 yards. Now that I have decent glass and 500 yard access, I'm gonna give it a try...
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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by toyslr » 11 Sep 2012, 08:03

Been out to 600 yards with mine...
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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by flyingirish04 » 11 Sep 2012, 12:37

I bet you could hit a quarter group a few times. Not consistently. Sorry, not a believer there based on experience. And you can of course shoot a man sized target out to 600, heck i could do that with a 556 with battle sights. Not what we are talking about. You cant shoot a 6 inch target consistently at that range. Sorry.

I have shot many AR platforms. Some of the finest like the OBR or MK11s KAC made genus in the service, that can shoot sub 5s easily. I have also shot run of the mill stock forged ARs and have hit man sized silhouettes are over 1200 yards. But not in consistent groups. No way. The guns aren't designed for that. The SR versions are capable of better than run of the mill ARs, but cost almost 2 times what a bofungus with same capabilities as an M40 would cost to build.

To say an AR platform can match a bolt platform dollar for dollar just isn't accurate. It doesn't. Sure they are cool, but you will be out distanced in every occurrence. Particularly if hamstrung by the 7.62 NATO cartridge. Now if you need a battle rifle or a medium range DMR platform, I agree, the AR platform is preferable. That is why the Mk 11 and 12 were designed.

If you want a long to extreme range precision shooter those rifles start to be marginal out past 800 yards and is why rifles like a bolt gun are still the choice. It is also why more powerful and/or more efficient chamberigs are chosen in the civilian world. I'm saying the 308 is obsolete, but darn near, in those uses. There are simply so many better options available. Even from factory rifles.

You love your ARs. Guess what I do too. They are a ton of fun. They don't replace a well tuned bolt gun though.
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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by flyingirish04 » 11 Sep 2012, 12:44

jgreenberg01 wrote:
flyingirish04 wrote:ARs are entirely overpriced. You need to spend three times as much for one to shoot half as well as a bolt gun. The military snipers uses the 308 simply because it is a standard NATO round. Most that can shoot at least a 300 win mag now, and even more are going to the 338 Lapua. The 308 is used more for sniper school now and closer in urban over watch missions.

If you are paying for it, you owe it to yourself to use something other than the 308, and unless you are spending 3k for a custom billet AR, you are wasting money on a gun that can't shoot MOA consistently. And won't hold it past a few hundred yards.

Sure u can fire it fast, but for precision shooting, it is not the best platform for the money. Not even close.
Irish - I recently took my LR308 out to 500 yards for the first time. but with an el-cheapo scope. Previously the farthest range I had access to was 200 yards and it could pretty much hit a quarter consistently.

I am wondering what you would expect the best consistent groups to be from an AR10 at 500 yards. Now that I have decent glass and 500 yard access, I'm gonna give it a try...

With that rifle I would be surprised if you got consistent groups under 6 inches. It is possible if you somehow got lucky and got the best barrel in the factory. But it isn't likely.

I could give you a stock savage chambered in 308 that could do that all day and cost less than 1300. scoped and all.
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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by ShockedNKansas » 11 Sep 2012, 13:54

Okay, now that everybody's got that out of their system... :)

So is there anybody with a negative opinion about the following rifle for a beginner "sharp" shooter such as myself?

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/110BA


I also posted the following video earlier in the thread with a guy using this very same rifle to hit a man-size target at one mile. Considering the lack of responses, I am assuming that isn't a big deal?

http://vimeo.com/40376685


And I know that ammo quality varies with any caliber. But CTD has 338 LP ammo for 2.50/round. Is this ammo high enough quality to have some accuracy at extreme distances?

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/2-SB34040


Also, with a rifle such as this, I am allowing a bit more wiggle room in the scope budget. I noticed the following rifle scope review rated a 300.00 Leupold as their top scope for 2012. Will this scope have enough power and quality to keep me happy (understand I am easy to please as long as everything functions correctly).

http://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/galle ... 1001355429

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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by toyslr » 11 Sep 2012, 14:00

You have the relative in house expert on the case now! Good luck :laugh: I'll just set back with my Remington 700 5-R and not be able to hit anything.

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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by jgreenberg01 » 11 Sep 2012, 14:25

flyingirish04 wrote:With that rifle I would be surprised if you got consistent groups under 6 inches. It is possible if you somehow got lucky and got the best barrel in the factory. But it isn't likely.

I could give you a stock savage chambered in 308 that could do that all day and cost less than 1300. scoped and all.
Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. We'll put that to the test in the next couple of weeks as I will finally be able to spend some quality time with the gun. As far as hitting quarters at 200 yards, while it wasn't 100% consistent, it hit them 57% of the time. At its worst it did 1.5" groups at that range.

The first (and only) time I took it out to 500 yards, it did 3 groups ranging from 7-8.5", but that was with a blurry-as-hell, dark scope that is now gone. Immediately after that, I hit a 4"x4" exploding target on the first shot (I'm sure it was beginner's luck!). It was also my first attempt at anything over 200 yards so truthfully I wasn't expecting even those results. This is a learning experience for me.

Hopefully you hit then nail on the head and I got the lucky barrel. :)
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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by cvande » 11 Sep 2012, 15:10

toyslr wrote:You have the relative in house expert on the case now! Good luck :laugh: I'll just set back with my Remington 700 5-R and not be able to hit anything.
+1

At least it's only half the cost to not be able to hit anything. :D

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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by fzr confused » 11 Sep 2012, 15:46

ShockedNKansas wrote:Okay, now that everybody's got that out of their system... :)

So is there anybody with a negative opinion about the following rifle for a beginner "sharp" shooter such as myself?

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/110BA


I also posted the following video earlier in the thread with a guy using this very same rifle to hit a man-size target at one mile. Considering the lack of responses, I am assuming that isn't a big deal?

http://vimeo.com/40376685


And I know that ammo quality varies with any caliber. But CTD has 338 LP ammo for 2.50/round. Is this ammo high enough quality to have some accuracy at extreme distances?

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/2-SB34040


Also, with a rifle such as this, I am allowing a bit more wiggle room in the scope budget. I noticed the following rifle scope review rated a 300.00 Leupold as their top scope for 2012. Will this scope have enough power and quality to keep me happy (understand I am easy to please as long as everything functions correctly).

http://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/galle ... 1001355429
yes, if i had the funds that gun would already be in my safe! as far as hitting things a mile away, i would consider a big deal! at least to me anyway lol. that scope, while better than ANY scope i own (i am a cheap bastard when it comes to optics :( ) i would not think it was the best scope for a rifle with this much potential. as a matter of fact, i would not even use it on mine if/when i buy a .338 lapua, and like i said, i am a cheapo like that. i would run that scope on a lesser rifle no problem though :)....then again i know very little about scopes.

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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by flyingirish04 » 11 Sep 2012, 17:21

fzr confused wrote:
ShockedNKansas wrote:Okay, now that everybody's got that out of their system... :)

So is there anybody with a negative opinion about the following rifle for a beginner "sharp" shooter such as myself?

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/110BA


I also posted the following video earlier in the thread with a guy using this very same rifle to hit a man-size target at one mile. Considering the lack of responses, I am assuming that isn't a big deal?

http://vimeo.com/40376685


And I know that ammo quality varies with any caliber. But CTD has 338 LP ammo for 2.50/round. Is this ammo high enough quality to have some accuracy at extreme distances?

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/2-SB34040


Also, with a rifle such as this, I am allowing a bit more wiggle room in the scope budget. I noticed the following rifle scope review rated a 300.00 Leupold as their top scope for 2012. Will this scope have enough power and quality to keep me happy (understand I am easy to please as long as everything functions correctly).

http://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/galle ... 1001355429
yes, if i had the funds that gun would already be in my safe! as far as hitting things a mile away, i would consider a big deal! at least to me anyway lol. that scope, while better than ANY scope i own (i am a cheap bastard when it comes to optics :( ) i would not think it was the best scope for a rifle with this much potential. as a matter of fact, i would not even use it on mine if/when i buy a .338 lapua, and like i said, i am a cheapo like that. i would run that scope on a lesser rifle no problem though :)....then again i know very little about scopes.

I wouldn't pick that particular model personally. I like this one http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10FCPHS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; better. But yours is still a very fine out of the box rifle, and very good value.

But other than that, fzr is right on. The minimum glass I would put on that is a Vortex Viper 6-24 or Sighttron SIII. I think the best for the money scope to match that is probably a Mk4 L or ER/T in 6.5-20. But understand if you want to spend less.

As far as ammo, I would stick with hand loading. Buy a hundred unfired lapua cases, and some VV N570 and some 300 SMKs or better yet Berger Hybrids, and go to town. You will be much happier. If you don't want to do that, I like the HSM 300 grain Berger loads the best of factory loads, even though they have crappy brass compared to the Lapua, BHs or Remington Match loads that use Lapua Brass.
Last edited by flyingirish04 on 11 Sep 2012, 17:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by flyingirish04 » 11 Sep 2012, 17:26

toyslr wrote:You have the relative in house expert on the case now! Good luck :laugh: I'll just set back with my Remington 700 5-R and not be able to hit anything.
:laugh:

Don't mistake me, that is a pretty darn good bolt gun. I hope I didn't lead you to think differently. Way nicer than the SPR IMO. And FWIW, I am told that Krieger makes those barrels for Remington, just like they make a lot of the M40 barrels, along with Lilja and a few other companies. So you basically have a semi custom rifle there. Just wish it didn't have the X-mark trigger. Oh well, you can replace it with a Jewell. :thumb:
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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by flyingirish04 » 11 Sep 2012, 17:37

jgreenberg01 wrote:
flyingirish04 wrote:With that rifle I would be surprised if you got consistent groups under 6 inches. It is possible if you somehow got lucky and got the best barrel in the factory. But it isn't likely.

I could give you a stock savage chambered in 308 that could do that all day and cost less than 1300. scoped and all.
Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. We'll put that to the test in the next couple of weeks as I will finally be able to spend some quality time with the gun. As far as hitting quarters at 200 yards, while it wasn't 100% consistent, it hit them 57% of the time. At its worst it did 1.5" groups at that range.

The first (and only) time I took it out to 500 yards, it did 3 groups ranging from 7-8.5", but that was with a blurry-as-hell, dark scope that is now gone. Immediately after that, I hit a 4"x4" exploding target on the first shot (I'm sure it was beginner's luck!). It was also my first attempt at anything over 200 yards so truthfully I wasn't expecting even those results. This is a learning experience for me.

Hopefully you hit then nail on the head and I got the lucky barrel. :)
That sounds likely for 200 yards with that rifle, 1.5 inches. Not unheard of. I notice significant MOA drift past 3 or 400. Actually see it around 500 with 5.56, barrels are stiffer than the 7.62s. Even so, I have owned exactly one AR that shot consistent MOA at 100 yards, much less 200, and I have owned six ARs (well five, and one Sig 556).

Also remember that shooter capabilities are always more important than gear. If I may channel my inner Blue. So I will suspend my absolute doubt in your ability to shoot that tight with a stock AR.
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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by jgreenberg01 » 11 Sep 2012, 18:08

flyingirish04 wrote:That sounds likely for 200 yards with that rifle, 1.5 inches. Not unheard of. I notice significant MOA drift past 3 or 400. Actually see it around 500 with 5.56, barrels are stiffer than the 7.62s. Even so, I have owned exactly one AR that shot consistent MOA at 100 yards, much less 200, and I have owned six ARs (well five, and one Sig 556).

Also remember that shooter capabilities are always more important than gear. If I may channel my inner Blue. So I will suspend my absolute doubt in your ability to shoot that tight with a stock AR.
Thanks for being willing to suspend your doubt, but because I have virtually no experience beyond 200 yards... 500 is seriously new territory for me and I have real doubts about my ability at this point. Either way, there will be a video (in the guise of a Leupold review) for all to see the win, fail, or anywhere in between. :laugh:

I know 500 yards is a stroll in the park for you, but for me, it's really reaching out to touch someone. Someday I will build a real precision rifle like the OP was asking about, but for now I think I'll learn the basics on my mostly-stock LR308.
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Re: Military Sniper Rifle

Post by flyingirish04 » 11 Sep 2012, 18:12

It would be a stroll with the rifles I have probably for you. They make it easier. I still try to make up for my lack of talent with good gear. That is how bad I am.

When I was at Bragg, I was very humbled in my abilities. I grew up hunting, an excellent shotgun shot always and I though a good rifle shot too. Shot Expert Pistol and Rifle my first M16 qual my 3/C Marine CORTRAMID phase. I found out I sucked when I went to the SWC and basically had to re learn (poorly) precision shooting. Luckily I was an officer and never was going to need to be behind the rifle unless things went very very wrong. But after spending some time, I thought I was very decent again.

Then I got in to reloading and custom builds, and I realized even more that I needed every advantage to keep up with my BR shooting buddies, and yet again, that I sucked at shooting compared to them. Lucky I don't like BR much, because don't know if I would ever be great at it.

Now my bug is LR Hunting. That will be what the LM Imp is for. And the great thing about BR buddies is that fundamentally, they know the ins and outs of shooting, so they are a big help with the LR Hunting.

Anyway, my point is, I shoot a lot with rifles. And I am never good enough.
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