AR15 guys

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srt-4_jon
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Re: AR15 guys

Post by srt-4_jon » 23 Feb 2011, 15:31

This is my third good purchase from them and I have another pending

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Re: AR15 guys

Post by smpsmp » 25 Mar 2011, 23:36

I have yet to make my bushmaster a gas piston, and when I bought it it was stock (with the removable handle). But it's too tempting just to leave it stock, so since it has gotten a new barrel, new free floated fore end, new stock, new almost everything. Accuracy and looks jumped up, but overall I never had any problems with mine from the day I bought it till now. But I do want to do a build, a colt upper, and larue lower. I have heard good things about the m&p 15 lately. And I was kinda kicking myself, cause I bought mine in may of 2008 (I think that's when it was, I remember I paid $1037 after tax and background check) and a gun shop near me was selling the m&p bought a 15 months later for $800. O well that was 15 months extra I had the toy for.

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Prepper
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Re: AR15 guys

Post by Prepper » 23 Apr 2011, 20:54

I am considering getting either a S&W M&P AR15 or a Bushmaster Ultralight - both around 6 Pounds (I'm a short dude).

Since I already have a PS-90 with EA ammo, do I really need an AR15. I know they have a greater effective range then the PS-90.

I am just trying to justify my "want" into a "need".

Thanks.
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Re: AR15 guys

Post by blueorison » 24 Apr 2011, 01:06

Yes. Everyone needs an AR15 and a glock, because of universality. I do not necessarily like either platform, but I believe they are important bases for training. You never know when you will have to pick up a buddy's gun to defend yourself. Crosstrain, always.

If you get an AR, get the M&P and avoid the Bushmaster.
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Re: AR15 guys

Post by Prepper » 24 Apr 2011, 06:39

I am familiar with the M&P, having shot one several times. But, should I buy one? Does the 223 bring anything new to the table. I also have a 30-30 and 7mm. The only thing I can think of is long distance and magazine capacity.
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Re: AR15 guys

Post by Robar » 24 Apr 2011, 07:00

Prepper wrote:I am considering getting either a S&W M&P AR15 or a Bushmaster Ultralight - both around 6 Pounds (I'm a short dude).

Since I already have a PS-90 with EA ammo, do I really need an AR15. I know they have a greater effective range then the PS-90.

I am just trying to justify my "want" into a "need".

Thanks.
Not sure what your budget is or if the 6# weight is a big seller, but I would highly recommend Rock River Arms. They are having a sale on their Operator II series and with everything you get it is well worth $1000. Rock River is a small company, but builds quality equipment that you can stake your life on. I do every day.
Check them out:
rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=461


Prepper wrote:I am familiar with the M&P, having shot one several times. But, should I buy one? Does the 223 bring anything new to the table. I also have a 30-30 and 7mm. The only thing I can think of is long distance and magazine capacity.
If you want range and mag capacity try a 308. Something like a FNAR, M1A, or AR10.

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Re: AR15 guys

Post by Cyberfly » 29 Apr 2011, 06:25

Not being an AR guy myself, really, I have a guy wanting to trade me an Olympic Arms with some el cheapo-depot accessories. The only thing we know about this rifle is that he bought it used as an ex-LEO weapon and that it supposedly shoots true.

Opinions? Thoughts? I've never handled an Olympic. Shot 5.56/223 before on many different platforms, but usually select fire and with names like Colt. I haven't actually laid eyes on this weapon yet, so what should I look for, or should I tell him to avoid the 3 hour drive?
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Re: AR15 guys

Post by flyingirish04 » 29 Apr 2011, 06:34

Ultralight forged ARs will shoot like crap compared to other forged ARs. Accuracy is largely determined by barrel, but after that, with ARs it is about reliability and the lighter weight ARs are not that reliable. Bushmasters I am not a fan of at all. Just had way too many issues with cracked recievers, and melted gas tubes. If you buy factory, RRA or DPMS.

If you want an accurate and tougher, lighter weight AR, there is but one choice: A full billet custom AR. They will cost ya. SI-Defense is my favorite company. The will build one in any caliber of your choice. 5.56 is a good round. If you want something more versitile, I would go with 6.5 Grendal.

I prefer the AR-15 design to the AR-10, but you could go the 10 round and get a 308 too. For range and flatter shooting get one chambered in 7mm-08 or 243. It can be done.

Olympic Arms is decent. Not as well built as a RRA or DPMS in my opinion. I would put them on the level of Stag arms.

ARs can be classified in three main lines:

Factory Forged
Custom Forged
Custom Full Billet

I personally think Custom Forged is a wast of money, considering for 2-300 more you can have a custom full billet.
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Re: AR15 guys

Post by Cyberfly » 29 Apr 2011, 06:40

Thanks for the input Irish.
I'm taking it that Olympic is a decent, middle of the road type weapon.
Then I may consider going through with this trade. I can yank the crap accessories and build this puppy up the way I want it.
From the pictures, it looks like it may have the 20" barrel, though its hard to tell from a cell phone. If it's worth messing with, I may convert it to 16" and put the quad rail fore end on it to give it more of an M4 look.
With all of the available 'stuff' out there for AR's, the sky truly is the limit.
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Re: AR15 guys

Post by Zhurdan » 29 Apr 2011, 06:44

Cyberfly,
What are you going to be into this trade if you don't mind me asking?

If it's over $600-700, I'd strongly consider not doing the trade for a an Oly as you'll probably spend a lot bringing it up to a more robust rifle. BCM makes some really great rifles for a decent price and there's nothing that needs be done to them to make them one of the better rifles on the market. Unless of course you just wanna drop some money, then I'd suggest a Noveske. My Noveske currently has about 8000 rounds thru it and is still going strong.

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Re: AR15 guys

Post by fzr confused » 29 Apr 2011, 07:59

A few buddies of mine have the Olympic arms as their issue AR and well, I'm not that impressed by them. That being said I also have not had a single issue nor have they with them. I just like my RRA a lot more. Just depends what the trade is.

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Re: AR15 guys

Post by Cyberfly » 29 Apr 2011, 08:02

I'm trading my Bowflex Revolution.
I need to get it out of my loft. My older boys are in the Air Force now and I'm not going to use it. The girls aren't going to use it. It's collecting dust.
I put it on Craigslist for $1,000 thinking it would sell fast and had this butthead that had me mark it as sold and he was gonna come get it. So, like a dumb-bunny, I pulled the ad for a MONTH and he had excuse after excuse after excuse. Eventually I put it back up but by then, most people had blown through their tax refunds.
The first ad I had put 'or trade for an AR-type rifle of equal value'. The second ad, I removed that as my lawnmower had died and I really need to replace it. But, this guy had seen the first ad and his dad is willing to part with one of his. This one.
I know it's not worth anywhere near a grand, but I was trying to figure out if its worth even considering trading for.
I really just want a black rifle that I can have for a SHTF situation as previous bad times cleaned out pretty much everything. I just hate to 'give away' a really good Bowflex that I paid a TON for...for a crappy worn out rifle.
Meh.
Dunno what I'm gonna do.
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fzr confused
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Re: AR15 guys

Post by fzr confused » 29 Apr 2011, 08:15

I have no clue the true value of a bowflex, but if it is a grand, then this deal is not in your favor at all. But of course gaining some space in your home and getting something you want helps out. But I would not do that trade, try maybe negotiating down to say 800 and then buy yourself a better AR.

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Re: AR15 guys

Post by Zhurdan » 29 Apr 2011, 08:27

I wouldn't trade a $1000 machine for at best (used) a $450-500 rifle. If the accessories are all cheap crap, you'll end up replacing them anyways. I'd try and sell the machine and go with BCM if it were my money.

If you do go thru with the trade, I'd imagine the following expenditures.

New MP tested Bolt and carrier................$140~
New buffer tube (mil) and stock...............$95~
Optics (H1).........................................$475~
Decent foregrip (assuming you want one)...$60~
Total...................................................$770~ on top of your trade.

I'm pretty sure that the bolt and bolt carriers are not MP tested. If it's just gonna be a plinker, probably not an issue, but if it's gonna be a rifle you need to count on, it's probably worth the upgrade. Depending on the stock that's on it, it may or may not be replaced. Optics are a personal choice, if you're an irons guy, no worries.

Anyways, given that, you can almost buy a new BMC rifle with all the proper testing in place, a proven track record from guys that shoot 1000's of rounds thru them a year for nearly what you'd put into revamping the Oly. This also doesn't even take into account replacing the LPK ($50-80).

I've shot a few BCM rifles and they're put together well, on par with my Noveske except the finish, but hell, the finish on my Noveske is getting beat to hell with all the training and practice I've been doing anyways.

Good luck!

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Re: AR15 guys

Post by flyingirish04 » 29 Apr 2011, 08:40

I wouldn't agree with a BCM being on par with a Noveske, and I really am not a fan of the Noveske either. It is a great rifle, don't get me wrong, but not for the price.

The BCMs I have heard good things about, but I really haven't seen what they have over a RRA or DPMS. Semi-custom or Custom forged just isn't worth the extra money at all imo. As far as 'MP testing' goes, RRA and DPMS and anyother standard AR company does more than enough catastrophic failure testing for the average owner. 'MP testing' is a marketing gimick for BCM to sell rifles with.

As far as the Oly goes, it sounds like you have around a $750 rifle. That is the trade value. The accessories aren't worth anything. If I were you I would ask to leave out the accessories and have him pay you the rifle and $150 for the bowflex. The problem you have is that resale for guns will always be more than resale for gym equipment. Taking a value of $900 seems reasonable.
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Re: AR15 guys

Post by Zhurdan » 29 Apr 2011, 09:29

flyingirish04 wrote:I wouldn't agree with a BCM being on par with a Noveske, and I really am not a fan of the Noveske either. It is a great rifle, don't get me wrong, but not for the price.
Having shot them, I'd say that the fit of the rifle, assembly and attention to detail were on par with my Noveske. The BCM chewed through wolf, pmc, remington, Sellier, some cheap crap I'd never heard of as did my Noveske. The four other rifles we shot that day didn't fair so well, and this was only over about 150 rounds per rifle (one mag of each ammo). Those rifles were Bushmasters, a DPMS, an Oly, and a Spikes utilizing the same magazines with the same ammo for each rifle. They all had problems of various types. Not an exhaustive test to be sure, but indicative of the BCM's and Noveske's ability to run whatever you put in it.
The BCMs I have heard good things about, but I really haven't seen what they have over a RRA or DPMS. Semi-custom or Custom forged just isn't worth the extra money at all imo. As far as 'MP testing' goes, RRA and DPMS and anyother standard AR company does more than enough catastrophic failure testing for the average owner. 'MP testing' is a marketing gimick for BCM to sell rifles with.
Many things are marketing gimmicks in the gun industry, but having owned a Bushmaster and watching it choke like a joke after about 5k total rounds, well, I'll buy the hype and get an INDIVIDUALLY MP tested one over a batch tested one. And I'll totally agree that it's fine for the average shooter

Keep in mind, these are my personal experiences... a sample of one (or 5 if your counting the guns we tried this with). Not trying to discount anyone else's first hand knowledge, just providing insight.


Also, not sure if they've corrected this, but a gal I shoot with a bunch had a DPMS and it wouldn't cycle certain types of ammo. She had to have the chamber reamed to spec before it'd run like a raped ape and they'd done the same for several other DPMS rifles. I had no reason to follow up with their newer rifles as I don't and most likely won't own one in the future. Rock River does seem to build a good rifle, but I've not seen one any cheaper than a BCM as of late (in stock and available for shipping that is).


Keep in mind as well, I'm a bit different than the average gun owner. My guns get shot... a lot. Just ask my wife what she did to me when I summed up the total ammo purchases I've made over the last four years. My neck still kinda hurts and I'm not sure I'll ever hear the same out of my left ear. If someone wants a plinker or a weekend shooter, most AR's will do just fine, but I've watched my fair share of rifles choke and break when pushed hard.

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Re: AR15 guys

Post by flyingirish04 » 29 Apr 2011, 10:20

I will put it simply, I have owned many ARs, in fact it was about the only things I owned outside of a shotgun and pistol since I was 18. I have never once had an issue with a DPMS or RRA, ever. As far as price, I have seen RRAs for less than BCMs. But I will confess I only know of a few places to get BCMs. So maybe you have seen them less than I have. Eitherway, I would agree they are on par with a DPMS and RRA. I don't hold them to the level Noveske as far as reliability, workmanship, accuracy, etc. I would put Noveske in that custom forged category. A step above.

My guns get shot too. Especially my ARs.

My SI-Defense full-billet rifle I had built last year already has 3K through it. I know because I have gone through three sealed M855 cans with it. That doesn't include some fo the handloads I have put through it either.

Eitherway, BCM, DPMS, RRA, even Olympia, you are getting decent ARs. Keep them clean and maintained, and they will all work well. I even think Bushmaster these days has gotten better. Never had any experience with S&Ws, so I can't comment on them other than they are a factory forged reciever.
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Re: AR15 guys

Post by Cyberfly » 29 Apr 2011, 10:23

I can't say what the true 'market value' of the Bowflex is, but the others I saw listed ranged between $3K and $1,600. I listed mine at a grand to make a quick sale and to undercut everybody else. Plus, they are listed in the OKC Craigslist and I live about 2 hours out of OKC, so I factored in the PIA factor of driving.
Still, there's taking THAT loss, and then adding in THIS loss as well.
I may as well keep the thing and actually use it myself if this is the case.
Maybe I should relist it as 'OR trade for a good used riding lawnmower...'? LOL!
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Re: AR15 guys

Post by flyingirish04 » 29 Apr 2011, 10:49

I can see that. I just know that Bowflex's are being sold used at a lot of those second hand fitness stores, with a store warranty for aroun $1000. That is here in Fargo though. All I was basing my opinion on.
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Cyberfly
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Re: AR15 guys

Post by Cyberfly » 29 Apr 2011, 10:54

Ah.
I was just going by what was on CL at the time.
Are those the Bowflex classics or the Revolutions? Seems like the bows will get worn out over time and people dump them. With the Revolution you can replace the 'weight' or add to it if you ever get the machine maxxed out.
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