SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

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NLVMike
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SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by NLVMike » 22 Jan 2011, 09:02

I spent two days wandering around the SHOT show, drooling on toys I can't afford. It was both painful and incredible. I will post elsewhere some of the other things I saw, but this one was pretty interesting. Armscor, the Phillipine manufacturer of Rock Island Arms, and lots of ammo, has a new gun out aimed as a direct competitor for the 5.7. First, my attempt at uploading a lame blackberry photo of it.

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What we have here is a 1911 that was a 9MM double stack with a .22 barrel. The ammo is a .223 casing, shortened up with a 40 grain partion .22 bullet. They claim 2,300 FPS out of a 5 inch barrel. I talked to them about ammo availability, and their answer was that they are one of the world's largest ammo makers, and they would have plenty, but they also admitted that they were working the SHOT show to get reloader dies made for it. It will retail about $600.

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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by romer522 » 22 Jan 2011, 10:44

Looks heavy....

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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by f3rr37 » 22 Jan 2011, 11:47

Hope they don't run into the issues that the 10mm BOZ had.

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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by panzermk2 » 22 Jan 2011, 12:54

That is exactly what I was thinking. The fact that it's based on .223 makes brass, dies, bolt SOMUCH much easier to make.

Since it uses stock .223 brass that means no reinforced base like the 5.7 meaning it would have to a locked breach and not a blow back.

I would love to get my hands on some of that brass.
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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by darksidemxer » 22 Jan 2011, 16:47

I like it, could be fun!

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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by Reese706 » 23 Jan 2011, 13:37

what are they gonna call the pistol and round? Wonder what the magzine capacity is gonna be and if they'll have a carbine to go along with it?

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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by flyingirish04 » 23 Jan 2011, 13:59

could be cool. At the very least it will require FNH to compete.
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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by PainKillaX » 23 Jan 2011, 14:06

Given a lower price, 1911 frame, and .223 brass I could see this being big competition.

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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by flyingirish04 » 23 Jan 2011, 14:49

Which is exactly what they need. FNH has become lazy in its process of creative destruction and innovation when it comes to this round. The possibilities with ammo alone that they have hampered is disgraceful on its own. Thank god for EA, or that front would have made this firearm severely hampered.

Now they may look to adapting the round to new platforms and other genres other than tactical (only for MIL/LEOs if it weren't for EA) and plinking (The only thing FN ammo is good for these days). Who knows Jay, maybe they put some money into your business to expand. :thumb:
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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by 69ranchero351c » 23 Jan 2011, 14:50

Reese706 wrote:what are they gonna call the pistol and round? Wonder what the magzine capacity is gonna be and if they'll have a carbine to go along with it?
.22 tcm is the name and 18 plus 1 capacity and, 600 msrp with the .22tcm barrel and a 9mm barrel.

so figure 450-500 street price for it. and i am so gettin one.

i just wish they'd release a midsize tactical in 9mm.

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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by NLVMike » 24 Jan 2011, 06:47

romer522 wrote:Looks heavy....
It is heavy. It is an all steel 1911 double stack. I suppose that also means that felt recoil would be close to nil. They had ammo shown that was headstamped .22 TCM, and they also had some ammo headstamped .223. I was not at the demo shoot, but I spoke with some who were. They said they put hundreds of rounds downrange of both and it worked great. If I can get it street price of $500 with both barrels, I don't think I could pass this one up.

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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by N4TAB-Tom » 24 Jan 2011, 07:16

FWIW, Google finds commentary in a number of forums, but this site:
<http://atomitronx.com/products.html>
seems to have some info about the origin of the round and gun.

Tom

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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by Cyberfly » 24 Jan 2011, 07:52

5.6X16? X20? It sure looks short and squat.
I dunno, but I could see it catching on.
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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by g24ported » 24 Jan 2011, 08:45

http://gunsforsale.com/ghg/2011/01/20/r ... ag-22-tcm/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by iFire » 24 Jan 2011, 10:17

Could be really fun. I would have to see it in person, or get my hands on a mag + bullets to know for sure, but:

Their bullet design, short and fat, *May* very well be a nightmare for reloading and/or variety in commercial loads if the magazine wont accept bullets like the 40gr Vmax/Nosler, 36gr Varmint Grenade, 45gr BBS or similar, longer style projectiles...

This would kill it for me...

Currently the only limitation of the 5.7x28 round is that their are only two types produced *Commercially* for it. HOWEVER, that is easily solved by getting ammo through EA for instance or by loading them yourself, either of which will give you excellent performance with just about any style projectile you desire...

This new "TCM" round (not sure of the caliber name?) could produce 2100 fps at the muzzle with a 40gr bullet which is excellent, no doubt. BUT, If there is only ONE PROJECTILE CHOICE, that would be just HORRIBLE... :furious:

They should have shortened the case enough to allow for a larger variety of bullets to be used :wall: Even if that meant going down to 2000 fps at the muzzle...

Do you think they did this on purpose? So as to make their ammo and/or bullet components "proprietary" in a sense???

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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by PainKillaX » 24 Jan 2011, 10:36

Why couldn't they just be chill and make a 1911 chambered in 5.7x28 and turn one of their machines to making some fresh ammo for us? :laugh:

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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by blueorison » 24 Jan 2011, 10:56

1. 1911 is American's favourite platform. Don't need to advertise much to get attention; easily adopted; easily actuated.
2. Shortened because the longer case would require a longer magwell, etc.
3. Not sure of the exact bullet dimensions and design they are using, but it looks pretty strict. I would also hope that they lowered and flared enough that you can recycle brass without bringing it to your smith, first.
4. There are already many advantages and disadvantages to this platform when compared to the 5.7x28mm. Some include loading info, bullet availability for various bullet construction & types, etc. and mainly centered on the bullet itself. Perceived advantages might include higher capacity, heavy platform vs. FsN (how many umpteenth times have we heard from newbies who can't shoot the FsN worth half a penny tell us that they've gotten a lemon or the FsN is an "inaccurate gun"?), easier to smith and customize, lower bore wear and tear, shorter bullet, pressure (too early to tell), etc.
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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by ynoty3k » 24 Jan 2011, 12:03


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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by jmz5 » 24 Jan 2011, 12:34

That looks friggin sweet. I can't wait to get my hands on one.
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Re: SHOT 2011. Armscor's FsN competitor

Post by cvande » 24 Jan 2011, 15:52

69ranchero351c wrote:
Reese706 wrote:what are they gonna call the pistol and round? Wonder what the magzine capacity is gonna be and if they'll have a carbine to go along with it?
.22 tcm is the name and 18 plus 1 capacity and, 600 msrp with the .22tcm barrel and a 9mm barrel.

so figure 450-500 street price for it. and i am so gettin one.

i just wish they'd release a midsize tactical in 9mm.

Did I read that correctly? It comes with the 22tcm barrel AND the 9mm barrel for 600msrp? Isn't the .223 base just a little loose in a 9mm breech?

Awesome deal if it is a 2 for 1.

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