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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:31 pm 
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Mtn Man in Flatland

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Probably the Smith is the way I would go. I had a BFR in 45-70. It was fun to shoot, but just way too big.



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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:57 pm 
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I'm just going to toss in my experiences here. I've extensively used a couple of Taurus revolvers and never had any major issues. Same goes for my experience with their semis. I've thoroughly enjoyed all of them. Not sure if I'm lucky or what. I don't own the revolvers but they belong to my buddy who is my shooting partner. I've read that the revolvers produced up until about 2008 had issues with timing. Hearsay is all I have as far as that goes.

I have been considering purchasing the raging bull in 454 for a while. I personally am not interested in the raging judge magnum. The judges have shallow rifling and tend to keyhle with heavier bullets. I have to agree with far about the look of the raging bull. I love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:49 am 
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Mtn Man in Flatland

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Eye of the beholder. I happen to think it looks cheap. But a lot of people think Rugers are ugly, and I love the look. And you are dead right about the Raging Judges and Judges. They do not shoot well due to the rifling.

Add one more thing about taurus's. My sister mentioned last night to me that her little taurus 22 pistol that looks like a knockoff of the berretta bobcat, had some kind of failure and caused a loud pop that blew off the grips. Her husband was shooting it, and was wearing gloves. The blast wasn't much she said, just like a loud pop. Not sure at all what exactly happened. No one hurt, luckily. Another example of why Taurus needs a warranty for their guns. If they didn't, I don't know who would buy em. I certainly won't be anyway.



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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:02 pm 
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Location: south fl
i have a few taurus guns, .357 snubby that was sent back for repairs, a pt140 which has worked flawlessly but i HATE shooting it and a pt92 which in my eyes is actually a very good shooter that is extremely accurate and functions amazingly. not saying taurus guns are great, but my pt92 i love :)....the snubby is fine and the pt140 i would rather toss in a lake than shoot....


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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:40 am 
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any input on barrel length? the 14" barrel looks interesting, but is it too much barrel without some home brew rounds with slower powders? i do not PLAN to scope it but still plan to shoot 2-250 yards with it. the 14" barrel version might be rather hard to keep on target at that range with the weight so far out i would think? Although it is less than 1lb heavier than the 8 3/8" version and it is a performance center....


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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:47 pm 
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well turns out i put a few of my reg dealers on a hunt for a super redhawk in 454 and none of them could find one :(...all of a sudden i get an email last night that "one just got delivered". needless to say i called them up first thing this morning and paid for it. they will be bringing it to the local gun show next weekend :)....the 460 is nice, and will be one of my next purchases but that 454 is just sooooo sexy!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:06 pm 
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fzr confused wrote:
well turns out i put a few of my reg dealers on a hunt for a super redhawk in 454 and none of them could find one :(...all of a sudden i get an email last night that "one just got delivered". needless to say i called them up first thing this morning and paid for it. they will be bringing it to the local gun show next weekend :)....the 460 is nice, and will be one of my next purchases but that 454 is just sooooo sexy!!!!!


Congrats man! That is one sexy gun! So... Yeah I shouldn't have to say it but... :ttiwwp: (when you get it of course)

nrv216


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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:10 am 
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Of course I will! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:35 pm 
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the shop sent down a 44mag...which of course i did not take. nothing against the gun, but i can find them anywhere. i wanted the dang 454! so the hunt continues.


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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:25 pm 
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Isn't that the worst. That happened to me when I was searching for a 10mm EAA Witness Match. I was on like 10 waiting lists and I got a call saying they got one in. Next day I get an email. YOU'VE BEEN REFUNDED it was actually a .40s&w :wall: Sorry man! Good luck with the hunt.

nrv216


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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:27 pm 
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The guy was really nice and all, said he would speak with his "connection" at ruger and let me know tomorrow when I can realistically expect to have one. Sure I can always stumble across one before hand on gunbroker or whatever but I added myself to every wait list I can find lol. It's actually for the better though, I really needed new rims and tires for my truck and found a great deal right after I places my order for the gun. Now back to rims/tires. I told him to also find me a 14" 460 new. I'll see what he can find.


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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:19 am 
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Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. This seems to be Taurus's corporate mission statement. Don't buy the Taurus. Buy the real deal Made in the USA Smith and Wesson. Yeah, it's more expensive, but it's a finer piece and will retain it's value. Not saying Taurus is crap, but you will never regret paying the extra $ for the X-Frame. The 500 is often available used as people purchase them and never use them. Find a nice used piece and never be upside-down. I fine a dealer blowing out old stock and paid $749 new for my 8.75in. Five-hundo.

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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:40 am 
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I'd go for the Smith in .500 magnum

Don't let anyone kid you...whatEVER the .454 or the .460 can do in terms of brute force, the .500 eclipses with ease. The .454 was originally built to launch 260 grain bullets (way back before the monster, overly heavy bullet craze came to town) and and was touted more for its RANGE than sheer power...and the .460 is that plus....a long, large capacity case intended to push light for caliber bullets to +2000 fps speeds.

The .500 is something else....seriously. That extra diameter results in a much larger slug, with much "better" brute knockdown power. For anyone who feels they simply must have massive power in a handgun, the .500 magnum, with the longer barrels, can be hand loaded to 3200 lb-ft of kinetic energy and more. That is simply BRUTAL power which combined with a half-inch diameter, near one-ounce "slug" will pulverize the heaviest bone, and penetrate through bone and tissue like a HVFSDS round punches through armor.
The two ....THREE calibers were intended for different purposes. Back in the day the .454 Casull was "it" and with the lighter loads showed impressive KE numbers, but it was really meant for the discerning shooter who wanted more power down range....can't really say "flatter" because the high BC bullets we have today did not exist then.

IF I were still into handgun "hunter class" sillhouette I'd probably be shooting the .460 because it can shoot "flat and fast." Since I like to carry a large revolver "backup" in the field, I opt for the .500 6.5" barrel. The 6.5" is only marginally heavier than the 4" and has an honest 6.5" barrel whereas the 4" really on has about 3" of barrel thanks to the compensator. With magnums that have huge case capacity, barrel length matters...yes, even a 2.5" snubbie will still be bad news, but nothing near what the longer barrels will deliver. The 6.5" carries easily, and points well, and is accurate beyond human ability. The one thing I personally would NOT advise with the 6.5" Smith is the use of lead bullets because it does not use the same compensator system as other models. Instead the barrel runs full-length with a series of holes drilled radially that vent propellent gasses into a chamber inside the shroud and up through ports on either side of the front side ramp. Since the system cannot be user disassembled (at least not the intent of S&W), there is no way to scrub out lead deposits that would surely build up between barrel and shroud. I remember a couple of thousand years ago the Dan Wesson .44 used a similar system that the user could disassemble for barrel length changes, but they specified no lead bullet use due to lead deposits building up and making it impossible to remove the barrel shroud.

When I get around to picking up a .460 it will be one of the longer barrel variants because that is really where the cartridge was intended to shine.

So it depends on your use, but one "rationale" I would emphatically NOT adopt as part of my purchase decision is the ability to stick .45 Colt or .454 Casull rounds in the .460. Smith & Wesson went to great lengths to make the .460 an accurate, long-range implement, and part of revolver accuracy is how far the seated bullet sits from the forcing cone...and that slight "neck down to caliber" inside the chamber, just beyond the case. When you stick a .45 Colt round in the much longer .460 chamber, the bullet must "jump" with complete FREE BORE from case neck to chamber "neck" to forcing cone....since the bullet is smaller than the case, this means propellant gases are passing around the bullet creating all sorts of havoc....like causing it to "tilt"...remember it's not spinning during this passage and it is completely unsupported by anything...the bullet is basically "making the jump" to the forcing cone. Accuracy will be terrible, and what's worse, high pressure, high temperature propellant gases will be jetting against the chamber walls creating some degree of erosion which could lead to major problems when firing the round the gun was actually built to shoot.

It's one thing to have a case length difference of a "tenth" of an inch, and quite another when a half inch of chamber lies ahead of the case. In both cases accuracy will be inferior to what could be achieved with a full-length case, but in the latter situation, long-term damage could be the result of excessive use of cases excessively short for the chamber.

As for brand...I LIKE Taurus' guns and have owned many and still do. However, IMO the S&W X-frame series isn't simply an "up-sized" N frame, but a "clean sheet" redesign that resulted in truly powerful revolvers that are actually "gentler" to shoot (comparatively speaking) than the .44 Magnum N frame. With the N frame we handloaders were always looking to push the envelope for maximum delivery. With the X frame we don't need to push the envelope...the envelope is HUGE and the guns can take the pounding. The S&W X frame is impressive....K frame grip size with an amazingly short DA trigger reach. SA is superb, the shroud/barrel/nut system is superior to barrels screwed into the frame...something DAN WESSON taught us many decades ago. The Smith is exceptionally accurate, and with any load delivering 2000 lb-ft of KE or below, pretty darn tame to shoot. The .500 can take advantage of the Barnes 325/375 grain XPB solid copper bullets with extremely high ballistic coefficient. The 375 BC is .261 which is higher than the .224" 55 gr. FMJBT. The Barnes 325 grain can be pushed over 2000 fps from a 10" barrel, sighted to cross the LOS at 15 yards and be within 2" of LOS out to 150 yards where it will still be carrying almost 1800 lb-ft of KE. The round will be only 5" below LOS at 180 yards and will still be supersonic out to 225 yards! Muzzle energy is a "mere" 2900 lb-ft KE.

Believe it or not, a 300 grain Hornady XTP loaded in .460, starting at nearly 2100 fps from the same barrel length will have almost identical trajectory numbers to the .500...but not quite as good, and will be about 100 lb-ft KE lower at 150 yards.

Anyway, not to knock Taurus, but the fact is that S&W logo counts for something. It's like buying a Hyundai versus a Mercedes....doesn't matter that both are built in Alabama, nor that Hyundai builds a superior car with better warranty coverage...the PERCEPTION is that Mercedes is "better" so people will shell out double or triple to be seen driving one. In THIS case I believe the Smith truly IS the better gun which will only increase its value down the road, so whichever caliber you go with, the gun should say "Smith & Wesson" on the barrel.


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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:54 pm 
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Location: Eastern Colorado
I ran across this thread doing a search for the ballistic coefficient on the SS195.
Kilibreaux wrote:
However, IMO the S&W X-frame series isn't simply an "up-sized" N frame, but a "clean sheet" redesign that resulted in truly powerful revolvers that are actually "gentler" to shoot (comparatively speaking) than the .44 Magnum N frame.

I can personally testify to the accuracy of that statement. If I spend an afternoon shooting a hundred 44 mag rounds through my S&W 629 classic, that evening my hand will just ache to no end. If I spend an afternoon shooting a hundred rounds through my 8-3/8" BBL 500, that evening my hand is itching for more. Between the cushioned Hogue grip and the heavier frame, the X-frame is designed to buffer recoil.

As far as the OP goes, S&W without a doubt but...then again...I'm prejudiced :D

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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:08 am 
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Errackeleo wrote:
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. This seems to be Taurus's corporate mission statement. Don't buy the Taurus. Buy the real deal Made in the USA Smith and Wesson. Yeah, it's more expensive, but it's a finer piece and will retain it's value. Not saying Taurus is crap, but you will never regret paying the extra $ for the X-Frame. The 500 is often available used as people purchase them and never use them. Find a nice used piece and never be upside-down. I fine a dealer blowing out old stock and paid $749 new for my 8.75in. Five-hundo.

I'll say it. At least as far as their revolvers are concerned. My personal experiences with them are less than stellar.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:08 am 
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Back when I was looking for a .357, the guy tried to sell me a taurus. I looked at it, opened the cylinder, gave it a look & a little spin. Then I closed it up & turned the cylinder to lock it, it kept turning. It should have locked on the next chamber but the cylinder made one full revolution before it locked in place. That was brand new gun, I'd hate to see what might happen after firing a few rounds through it.



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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:48 am 
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I really thought I updated this thread, must have been another one. I ended up buying a the S&W .460 with the 8 3/8" barrel. Man it is a fun gun! Of course the first time I took it out I started with .460 and then .454 and lastly 45LC. At the end I wanted to toss in a few more .460 and found the problem this gun has with the different length cases. Needless to say, I will ONLY be firing .460 from then on out.


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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:38 pm 
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Mtn Man in Flatland

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Nice gun. What problems did you have with the shorter cases?



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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:09 pm 
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flyingirish04 wrote:
Nice gun. What problems did you have with the shorter cases?

See his thread here (viewtopic.php?f=26&t=12944). Shooting the shorter cases allows residue (and lead) to build up in the chambers past the end of the cases, which can give you extraction problems when you subsequently shoot the longer .460 cases.


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 Post subject: Re: Raging bull vs S&W
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:17 am 
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Mtn Man in Flatland

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500SWfan wrote:
flyingirish04 wrote:
Nice gun. What problems did you have with the shorter cases?

See his thread here (viewtopic.php?f=26&t=12944). Shooting the shorter cases allows residue (and lead) to build up in the chambers past the end of the cases, which can give you extraction problems when you subsequently shoot the longer .460 cases.


Thanks.



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