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 Post subject: Sig now has 3 subcompact 9mm's
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:58 am 
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Say what you will about the teething problems, I love my P238. My only curse to the Gods was that I despise the .380; I dont like stocking another caliber, which is ballistically inferior in every way to the 9mm, and costs 3x as much.

Thus my prayers were heard, and Sig is releasing the P938.

These have not hit the streets yet; eagerly anticipting the "real" reviews, not that fishwrap on Gunblast or Nutnfancy that calls EVERY SINGLE firearm they test superbly reliable. Hopefully this Sig won't have reliability issues. Dimensionally its not quite exact... the width is the same, the heigh is the same, but its 0.4" longer. Might not sound like a lot, but its enough to make the dovetail just stick out the top of a bluejean pocket, so we shall see if its suitable for true pocket carry or not.

Image

Sig now has the P938 9mm, the P290 9mm, and the new P224 in 9mm. Its quite a selection from someone like Sig.


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 Post subject: Re: Sig now has 3 subcompact 9mm's
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:15 am 
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Mtn Man in Flatland

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I like the 224 coming out. Bigger, but still subcompact.



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 Post subject: Re: Sig now has 3 subcompact 9mm's
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:07 pm 
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Forgot about the P239 as well. I think it's a bit more practical still then the 224 with it being as fat as it is. Still wish they made all of their guns in Germany though, or cared about QC in NH.


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 Post subject: Re: Sig now has 3 subcompact 9mm's
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:38 pm 
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Recently bought 239 and added Hogue grip. Runs flawlessly and dead on. Easy as CCW.


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 Post subject: Re: Sig now has 3 subcompact 9mm's
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:38 am 
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Mtn Man in Flatland

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smpsmp wrote:
Forgot about the P239 as well. I think it's a bit more practical still then the 224 with it being as fat as it is. Still wish they made all of their guns in Germany though, or cared about QC in NH.


I am glad they moved to the US. They are building more and better guns and employing Americans.

Not sure if you are just recycling other forum lies and rumors but Sig is one of the most solid gun makers in the world right now. And their Exeter Factory sets the bar for not just gun companies but for all manufacturing companies in the world. Out of the box, Sigs are as good or better than any other semi auto pistol. I read their QC program has put them with fewer call backs and repair work then any other company in the last ten years. I own several, and have been issued several and had exactly one problem with a 238 which was my fault actually. Sig still took care of me free of charge.

Don't mean to sound harsh but this kind of spitballing is what makes forums lose credibility. Also, sometimes pining for nostalgia is based in more close minded subjective sentiment then objective truth.



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 Post subject: Re: Sig now has 3 subcompact 9mm's
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:52 pm 
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Don't get me wrong I love my 220 and it was made in Exter, but I consider myself lucky more then anything that the sights haven't come loose yet (known problem with the MMC copies Sig is putting on the Elite Dark models, and to make it worse they used a different cut in the slide from the normal sights).

I like Sig's, I really do, but we've seen a few come into the shop that were sub par at best in terms of quality (nitron finish wasn't done properly on the underside of the slide), and they recently started using cast frames on their stainless frames versus machined, but the price tag never dropped.

I think they should put more time into quality control versus coming out with models that anyone with a brain knows will be a flop (like the diamond plate models).

I'm not completely turned off by Sig altogether, still waiting on my 556 to come into the shop even, but in my opinion they need to put more attention to what made them famous for being as reliable as they are, and not jumping on the making a gun in 50 different color combo bandwagon. Problems are bound to happen if you start pushing out a billion and half things at the same time but don't add more personal to pay attention to the detail.


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 Post subject: Re: Sig now has 3 subcompact 9mm's
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:07 pm 
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Mtn Man in Flatland

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I have never seen any of that. Not once. I have heard a few people on forums claim that happens all the time, but frankly I don't buy a word of it.

And their frames are the same, exactly. They haven't changed. And Sigs have been made in Exeter since the 90s. They have been made in Germany as well, and the SigPro's in Switzerland as well simultaneously. If anything, the Sigs today are put through more before they hit the stores than your 'beloved' German versions. I have owned old West Germany 225s and 228s. I have owned Exeter 228s. I have ran M11s, Mk24s, Mk25s, 220s in a variety of sizes, 551s, 552s, and their GSRs (Now 1911s). I own or have owned 556s, 226s, 229s, a 238, and a 232. I have shot 210s quite a bit. Old and new I have experience with Sigs. Not one of those guns have displayed what you, and frankly other posers online have claimed. Not one.

I think the last bit of your post shows your true problem with Sigs, which is the only valid one. They do have WAY too many special editions. I can agree with that. At their plant they have one of each of their limited runs, and it is WAY TOO MANY to even go through.

But the rest of what you have to say I simply don't believe. Love to see evidence to what you claim though, if you have any.

Oh, and you can't cast stainless steel. Doesn't work that way. Don't take my word for it, ask a metallurgist.



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 Post subject: Re: Sig now has 3 subcompact 9mm's
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:58 pm 
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It looked cast on the one we had in the shop (was a nitron coated steel frame, not aluminum), and the main reason I thought it was cast was because of the marks around every edge (same marks you see on a lot of cast frames).

As far as the nitron not being finished, we saw those too, and it isn't a big deal to me since I would shoot it anyway, but if you're paying that kind of money for a gun, it should be finished right. Here's a link for what I was describing, and its not the only one like it if you google it. The bare marks are from the clamps Sig was using when they finished the slide. This happened for a short time, and enough people must have complained about it since it seemed to have stopped with the ones made after april/may 2011. We get the occasional left over one from our one supplier, and when taken apart they look just like it. Only seemed to be like this for one's made in a few months stretch like I said.

http://sigtalk.com/sig-sauer-pistols/12 ... -wear.html

(Not affiliated with this forum, and not a member there. Mods if you don't want the link up feel free to take it down).

This is what originally made me start looking at the frames in more detail at the shop (referring to the edges, rather then just checking on how well the barrel locks up to the slide).

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/ ... 045082/p/1


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 Post subject: Re: Sig now has 3 subcompact 9mm's
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:54 pm 
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Mtn Man in Flatland

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Forums don't count. Sorry. I am well aware of claims, and I have read those posts before. If you read them, you see that the claims of casting were wrong.

And the nitron finishing on the INSIDE of the pistol doesn't affect anything with a stainless pistol. With the old 228s it was necessary because they were carbon steel frames.

Again, you shouldn't believe everything you see on the internet.



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 Post subject: Re: Sig now has 3 subcompact 9mm's
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:04 pm 
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Just looked cast to me when I saw it in person as well at our store.

As far as the finish goes, it doesn't effect the reliability of the pistol, but if you're paying a premium for a gun it should come out completely finished. And if every other company on the market can finish the inside of a slide correctly, why can't Sig?

Like I said I carry my 220 every day, and trust my life on it, but Sig isn't without its issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Sig now has 3 subcompact 9mm's
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:40 pm 
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Mtn Man in Flatland

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No company is without issues. Sig is one with just about the fewest among firearms companies though.

And for what you pay for, you get plenty of gun. More than HK, Glock, Springfield, Ruger, S&W, and yes, FNH. Way more. I only wish FN made FsNs in the quality of a Sig 226.



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 Post subject: Re: Sig now has 3 subcompact 9mm's
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:54 pm 
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I have a West German Sig P228 that is magnificently reliable and dead nuts accurate.

I've heard of a lot of 238 problems though.


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 Post subject: Re: Sig now has 3 subcompact 9mm's
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:48 pm 
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My Sig P220 is my favorite gun. If I had to give up all but one of my guns, I would keep the Sig hands down. It is utterly reliable, match accurate, and fits in my hand like it was poured in there.

My Sig is old though. I bought it on my 21st birthday, which was, well... 21 years ago. My frame is made in Germany and has fantastic machine work.

I was thinking about getting a newer full size P220 that has a rail (mine does not have one). I also already ordered a Milt Sparks holster for my next Sig, which will be a P220 Compact Gen 2 SAS.

You guys have me worried with these supposed reliability issues, and second guessing my future purchases.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Sig now has 3 subcompact 9mm's
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:08 pm 
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Mtn Man in Flatland

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Don't be worried. The basis of the claims are bunk, and have been shown to be as much on the very forum threads that were utilized to support said claims.

If I see something that changes my opinion, I will let you know. I have the luxury of having a friend that is a collector of Sigs, old and new. Has every model save a few rare special editions.



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