New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

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Tachycardia
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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by Tachycardia » 15 Jun 2011, 17:06

Good video, thanks for all the work you put in on this

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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by VeTTeMaNC486 » 16 Jun 2011, 06:43

jgreenberg01 wrote:Blue: always looking on the bright side of irrationality!

Personally speaking, I have no problem with speaking ill of a gun I own. If I can't shoot accurately with it, it's either user error, a bad match for me or as in the case of this PMR-30...

I tryly believe it's a new platform with some serious bugs that need to be worked out. I've sold/traded guns I didn't like and I may do that at some point with this gun. My challenge now is to not let this experience sour me towards Kel-Tec because the RFB and KSG look damn sexy to me.

As far as the 5.7 naysayers... I don't take it personally, but I wouldn't mind converting one or two of them from the dark side. I suppose it's just one of those things that would give me a personal sense of satisfaction. Besides, one or two converts won't limit our ammo supply :laugh:
Id love to get my hands on a RFB :D
Have only seen one every in person though and they wanted like 1600 or 1700 for it :(

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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by jgreenberg01 » 20 Jun 2011, 14:25

*** UPDATE ***

I took it to the range again today and put 250 more rounds through it to see if there would be any improvement with use, 100 were CCI Maxi-Mag 40gr HPs and 150 were the JHP version. I keep hearing from KT enthusiasts that it takes 500+ rounds to get a reduction in failures. The gun is now up to 350 rounds. Here were the results:

Failures: 49 in 250 rounds

Keyholes (HP): 22 in 100 rounds

Keyholes (FMJ): 2 in 150 rounds

Accuracy: approx 2" groups which is a vast improvement over the 6" spread from first 100 rounds.

Most of the errors seemed to be caused by the rounds not being able to make the slide cycle correctly although there were a substantial number of failures to extract.

So it seems that it went from 7% failures in the first 100 rounds to 19.6% failures in rounds 101 through 350, while the accuracy actually improved. Interesting. It definitely keyholes a LOT more with the hollow point rounds as compared to the FMJs. All of the ammo was the one recommended ny Kel-Tec.

I'll put a link to the video when youtube gets the thing uploaded just in case anyone wants to sit through 14 minutes of shooting, well 14 minutes of trying to shoot the damn thing.

I'll keep posting updates and videos as more rounds go down range. We'll see if the Kel-Techies are correct in that the failures stop after billions of rounds...
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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by fzr confused » 20 Jun 2011, 16:17

I am not a kel-tec fanboy, but the 3 I have all function flawlessly. None of mine are this gun though. I have a sub-2000 .40 with prob 1500 rounds through it, a p-11 with a few hundred and a p3at with about 150 though it. Not all kel-tecs suck, but this one seems to have it's flaws :(
Last edited by fzr confused on 20 Jun 2011, 19:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by 57js » 20 Jun 2011, 16:40

jgreenberg01 wrote:*** UPDATE ***

I took it to the range again today and put 250 more rounds through it to see if there would be any improvement with use, 100 were CCI Maxi-Mag 40gr HPs and 150 were the JHP version. I keep hearing from KT enthusiasts that it takes 500+ rounds to get a reduction in failures. The gun is now up to 350 rounds. Here were the results:

Failures: 49 in 250 rounds

Keyholes (HP): 22 in 100 rounds

Keyholes (FMJ): 2 in 150 rounds

Accuracy: approx 2" groups which is a vast improvement over the 6" spread from first 100 rounds.

Most of the errors seemed to be caused by the rounds not being able to make the slide cycle correctly although there were a substantial number of failures to extract.

So it seems that it went from 7% failures in the first 100 rounds to 19.6% failures in rounds 101 through 350, while the accuracy actually improved. Interesting. It definitely keyholes a LOT more with the hollow point rounds as compared to the FMJs. All of the ammo was the one recommended ny Kel-Tec.

I'll put a link to the video when youtube gets the thing uploaded just in case anyone wants to sit through 14 minutes of shooting, well 14 minutes of trying to shoot the damn thing.

I'll keep posting updates and videos as more rounds go down range. We'll see if the Kel-Techies are correct in that the failures stop after billions of rounds...
I haven't shot a Kel-Tec before, but this is a real problem. Hopefully the enthusiasts are correct that the problems will go down once you hit 500 rounds. Have you tried different rounds by another manufacturer?

I remember many people here tell people who just bought the FsN that it takes a few hundred rounds to really break in this gun. Thankfully while that is true, there is usually only a few issues until broken in until there is usually no problems.

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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by jgreenberg01 » 20 Jun 2011, 18:09

My FsN had only one failure in the first 500 rounds. It was literally the first round through it and it was a FTF. I probably didn't let the slide slam home hard enough.

I've only used CCI ammo which is the one that Kel-Tec recommends. Ironically enough, they claim that other brands may not cycle the slide properly.
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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by Nickf150fx4 » 20 Jun 2011, 18:15

That's a rediculous number of failures! Thanks for the video and the review it was great! I was trying to convince my cousin to buy this as his first gun for target shooting to get into the swing of things but idk now...

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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by jgreenberg01 » 20 Jun 2011, 18:21

Nickf150fx4 wrote:That's a rediculous number of failures! Thanks for the video and the review it was great! I was trying to convince my cousin to buy this as his first gun for target shooting to get into the swing of things but idk now...
Who knows, I may have a lemon. If you sit through the video that should be up by tomorrow, you'll see why I say that...
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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by 57js » 20 Jun 2011, 19:25

jgreenberg01 wrote:My FsN had only one failure in the first 500 rounds. It was literally the first round through it and it was a FTF. I probably didn't let the slide slam home hard enough.

I've only used CCI ammo which is the one that Kel-Tec recommends. Ironically enough, they claim that other brands may not cycle the slide properly.
I had a few FTF the first time I shot the FsN. It probably was all me since it was only the second time I ever fired a gun when I took it to the range. After I went through a few magazines, and got the hang of the gun, I didn't have any more FTF. Very reliable gun. Unlike your Kel-Tec it appears. Hopefully it will get more reliable.

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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by 57js » 20 Jun 2011, 19:26

jgreenberg01 wrote:
Nickf150fx4 wrote:That's a rediculous number of failures! Thanks for the video and the review it was great! I was trying to convince my cousin to buy this as his first gun for target shooting to get into the swing of things but idk now...
Who knows, I may have a lemon. If you sit through the video that should be up by tomorrow, you'll see why I say that...
Have you contacted Kel-Tec about your problems with this gun?

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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by blueorison » 20 Jun 2011, 20:16

Let me CLARIFY something.

The FsN DOES NOT take hundreds of rounds to break in.

The issue is that the gun was designed as a COMBAT weapon to shoot COMBAT loads. FN watered down their ammunition and the springs were too heavy for the light ammunition. This one issue has caused many problems.

However, springs ALWAYS have a break in period, unless they are high quality springs and have been tuned. Even then...

That said, I had no issues with my FsN and never had to break it in.
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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by Mister Freeze » 20 Jun 2011, 20:50

+1

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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by jgreenberg01 » 21 Jun 2011, 04:25

For anyone who wants to sit through 14 minutes of shooting this thing, or if there anyone thinks they can diagnose the problem by watching a video, feel free. No fancy editing, no silly jokes, just 14 minutes of Kel-Tec FAIL.

Full disclosure, while I am certain there was no limp-wristing, I know I occasionally flinch with this gun because I can't get the videos out of my head of this thing going KB. I don't think it's enough to make if fail this often though.
57js wrote:Have you contacted Kel-Tec about your problems with this gun?
Not yet, I'm going to put 500+ rounds through it then go do the ballistic testing on July 16. If it is still experiencing the failures & keyholing then yes, I will certainly be contacting them. It's not like I'm going to be using this gem for HD/SD any time soon, so I don't mind losing it for a few weeks when they tell me to send it back...

Warning, the first 12:25 minutes of this video is just shooting the PMR-30 and counting all the failures... you may fall asleep, lol. The accuracy (benchrest) shooting is at 12:26 followed by a quick summary at 14:20:




And here are a couple of targets that show the keyholes. First a typical hollow-point target, it has 8 keyholes in 30 rounds:
Image

And a FMJ target, They do much better, this one has only one keyhole in 60 rounds:
Image
Last edited by jgreenberg01 on 21 Jun 2011, 04:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by Gramaton Cleric » 21 Jun 2011, 04:44

wow my Walther P22 has less issues! And is accurate to boot! Im astounded
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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by Gramaton Cleric » 21 Jun 2011, 05:00

the slide seems stiff like it needs nano'ed lol ! is it always that tight! accuracy on it, seems vastly improved!!
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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by jgreenberg01 » 21 Jun 2011, 05:49

Gramaton Cleric wrote:the slide seems stiff like it needs nano'ed lol ! is it always that tight! accuracy on it, seems vastly improved!!
Trust me, it is plenty lubed. Yes, it's ironic... accuracy is improving while reliability is going down the tubes. I'm hoping it just needs a break in period, but I'm leery of that. Of all my other handguns: FNs, XDMs, Taurus(es), none of them required a "break-in" period. And certainly none of them experienced issues like this.

I know that rimfire cartridges fail substantially more often than centerfire, and I have experienced that with my Henry lever action .22lr rifle on occasion, but it fails only a small fraction of the time in comparison to the PMR-30.
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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by Rapier1772 » 21 Jun 2011, 07:13

jgreenberg01 wrote:I know that rimfire cartridges fail substantially more often than centerfire, and I have experienced that with my Henry lever action .22lr rifle on occasion, but it fails only a small fraction of the time in comparison to the PMR-30.
:huh:
I can't remember a single instance of a .22LR failing since I started shooting - at least not one that couldn't be blamed on a loose operator nut :ponder: But then I also hadn't shot a .22 over a decade until I bought one last month. So far, no issues with that one :?:
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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by Prepper » 21 Jun 2011, 07:18

Rapier1772 wrote:
jgreenberg01 wrote:I know that rimfire cartridges fail substantially more often than centerfire, and I have experienced that with my Henry lever action .22lr rifle on occasion, but it fails only a small fraction of the time in comparison to the PMR-30.
:huh:
I can't remember a single instance of a .22LR failing since I started shooting - at least not one that couldn't be blamed on a loose operator nut :ponder: But then I also hadn't shot a .22 over a decade until I bought one last month. So far, no issues with that one :?:
I've had no issues with my S&W M&P15-22, Walther P22, S&W P22A, or Rugar 10-22.
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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by panzermk2 » 21 Jun 2011, 07:57

What a nightmare of a gun.
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Re: New Kel-Tec PMR-30 Purchase, for just one purpose...

Post by jgreenberg01 » 21 Jun 2011, 08:16

Just FYI - I called KT and told them exactly what was happening and they said that there is no way it should be performing like this and that I need to get it to them for repair.

I'll send it in after the ballistic testing on July 16, and I will report back after they return the gun to me...
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