In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Discuss the FN Handgun lineup; the High Power, FNP, and FNX line.
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In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by Snaproll » 10 Jul 2012, 19:01

"... this is the coolest thing I have ever seen..."

Ok, maybe a bit of an exagguration, but... I picked up my black FNP-45 Tactical tonight.

It's all fitted out. I ended up going with the Triji RM06 because the Fastfire that came in was still the "II" rather than the "III" so that made it a nobrainer because of the locking screws. I swapped my Veridian X5L from the FiveseveN and put the original Veridian back on the Fiveseven.

My Fiveseven has the older Fastfire II on it. Between that and the Trijicon on the FNP, there is no comparison. Maybe the FFIII is better than the II, but the Triji compared to the FFII is like comparing a real laser or red dot to a $15 dollar WallyWorld variety made for paintball and pellet guns.

The thing that is amazing to me though... the Tridium sights on the FNP.... I liked the red dot concept, but once I removed the rear sight on the Fiveseven and mounted up the Fastfire, at first I thought it was a mistake. It took a while to get used to the sight picture. I had to keep hunting for the red dot. Eventually I realized if I just sink the front blade out of sight the red dot appears at the top of the frame. This made aquisition easy during the day, but still a bear at night. Without the light and laser, it would take me a while of hunting until I found the red dot. I have tridium sights on my 20 year old 92FS (just replaced them in the last year) so I'm no stranger to the glowing beads. On the 92 they are all the same color so registration sometimes is an issue, (which one goes where) but once sighted, then a squeeze and the Crimson Trace grip paints on target. The thing that is so neat on the FNP is being able to sight the tridium and the red dot just appears, no problem no matter how dark it is., then a touch just ahead of the trigger guard and the target would be illuminated and green lased. It's neat that they made the front tridium a slightly different color so there isn't even an issue registering which dot is which.

Tomorrow I'm breaking in a grand nephew and niece on 22's but I should get in a few plugs to test out the FNP and my old Colt Series 70 1911 (my first handgun like the day I turned 21).

I've cleaned the FNP and loaded the mags. Man, getting that last round in there... wow, like trying to compress a neutron star. Nothing looks amiss and everything should work as advertised. I really like the feel. I think this is the ugliest gun I ever bought, but it "feels right". I just hope it shoots well.

Anyway, any thoughts on proper break-in (other than not running WWB)?
Last edited by Snaproll on 10 Jul 2012, 19:54, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by MikeSantor » 10 Jul 2012, 19:25

Bad form Peter...

You don't talk about a sweet new gun you picked up without pics....

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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by Snaproll » 10 Jul 2012, 19:35

Peter? Name is Jim.

I would be happy to post some pics, but I'm not all that familiar with this forum so i'm not sure how to do it here :( I will though once get the time to figure it out :)

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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by MikeSantor » 10 Jul 2012, 19:47

Snaproll wrote:Peter? Name is Jim.
Sorry, I have a 5 year old.... Ecookie to anyone that knows what movie that's from.

Upload the pics to a website like photovucket which is free and they will give you links to the pic so when you post the link the picture will show up. It will be like (img) photobucket.com/ rest of picture URL(/img)

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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by blueorison » 10 Jul 2012, 20:10

awesome share... Jim!

:)

I've used Triji's MRD's in the past; could you elaborate more on your experience with the Trijis versus the FFII? What was it that made them so much more than the FFII?

The look and the reticle, perhaps? Not sure! :)
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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by Rapier1772 » 10 Jul 2012, 22:43

I'd say the movie is Peter Pan

Jim, there is a how to post pics link in my sig line. And yes, all new gun threads require pics :laugh:
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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by Esteves » 11 Jul 2012, 03:27

MikeSantor wrote:Ecookie to anyone that knows what movie that's from.
Hook
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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by jgreenberg01 » 11 Jul 2012, 04:30

MikeSantor wrote:
Snaproll wrote:Peter? Name is Jim.
Sorry, I have a 5 year old.... Ecookie to anyone that knows what movie that's from.

Upload the pics to a website like photovucket which is free and they will give you links to the pic so when you post the link the picture will show up. It will be like (img) photobucket.com/ rest of picture URL(/img)
I hate, I hate, I HATE Peter Pan!

Duh, Hook!



EDIT: Oops, Esteves beat me too it. Call me a nerd but I have that movie on DVD and I love it.


And to the OP: :ttiwwp:
0100001101101111011011010110010100100000011000010110111001100100001000000111010001100001011010110110010100100000011010010111010000101110

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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by MikeSantor » 11 Jul 2012, 04:54

Esteves wrote: Hook
jgreenberg01 wrote: I hate, I hate, I HATE Peter Pan!

Duh, Hook!

EDIT: Oops, Esteves beat me too it. Call me a nerd but I have that movie on DVD and I love it.

:
DING DING DING!


Nerd? I have it on DVD and 2 copies of VHS just in case one breaks...

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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by jgreenberg01 » 11 Jul 2012, 05:29

Good form Mike!
0100001101101111011011010110010100100000011000010110111001100100001000000111010001100001011010110110010100100000011010010111010000101110

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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by Snaproll » 11 Jul 2012, 20:22

I found the section on uploading images. I'll have to do it when I get time....

"The look and the reticle, perhaps? Not sure!"

Ok, the big disaster with the Fastfire II and the FNP is that there are locking screws on the very back of the FF2. This makes it a nobrainer to NOT mount it on the FNP. (It would make it very difficult getting to those locking screws since the FF would be in front of the rear sight).

I have the FFII on the fiveseven and it sucks to get it sighted in even on that. It is easier with the Fiveseven with a Veridian green laser on it but it's still an issue. It would really suck if you didn't have a laser, here's why... when tightening the two locking screws on the FFII, the aim point drifts. This means you have to anticipate where the point ends up when you get done tightening the locking screws. For me, this is pretty easy because I first get the green laser sighted in. Once that is dead on, then it's pretty easy to set the FFII to that point. This is where you notice the drift while tightening the lock screws. You put the red dot over the green laser dot on the target, tighten and... the red dot shifts off, say to the left, from the green dot. Ok, so then you have to loosen the lock screws, move the red dot to the right of the green dot, retighten the locking screws and hope that the drifting red dot ends up over the green dot. If it works, then you have to cut a few more rounds to make sure the aim points are holding on the light and the laser. If they're off, you have to redo the whole procedure. It would really be a royal PITA trying to sight this thing in without the laser to show where the impact point will be. If the gun is not in a vice, and you're trying to guess how to move the aim point and then having it drift while you're tightening those locking screws, it could be maddening. With patience you can get it done, but...

The FFII also has only one brightness setting. You also need to remove the entire unit to replace the battery. On other sights I've read that a "big problem" is recoil turning the unit off and that it is a "good idea" to glue the on/off slide switch on the left side in the "on" position. I have not experienced any problem with this on the fiveseven so I turn it off when not in use. The target frame view is smaller on the FFII and the coatings appear cheaper than on the Trijicon. The FFII would be fine for budget concious folks that don't mind dinking around with it. One important aspect, I think the FFII may be lighter than a Triji and therefore may be a better call on the Fiveseven than the Triji. Autos are sensitive to weight on the slide. I heard of a guy that had a red dot on his 5.7 screwing up the feed. I don't know what sight it was, maybe a Trigi, but I can say from experience the 5.7 still feeds reliably with the FFII on it.

The Fastfire III is supposed to address a lot of these problems and *may* be a good compeditor for the Trijicon line, but... since I've never seen one all I can comment on is some of the things I've read that are improvments... no locking screws in the back, battery can be replaced without removing the entire unit from the gun, multiple brightness levels, I guess it has an auto brightness too. The windage and elevation screws are supposed to be easier to use and 'click'. Basically the FFIII is supposed to have all the bells and whistles the Triji has, but I can't confirm that.

The Triji... everyplace I read, everybody raves about the Trijicon. The MR06, 6 mil dot is fine, 8 brightness levels, an auto adjust feature, built like a tank. There is the dual illumination model with fiber optics and tridium but I don't have experience with that one.

Ok, tonight I got a chance to use the Trijicon when I dialed in the FNP. Bottom line, is it "worth" and extra FOUR HUNDRED dollars over the FFII.....???? I about choked when I said, "Oh? The Fastfire that came in is the FFII? Ok, throw the Trijicon on instead, here' s the credit card..." Is it worth the extra $400 over the FFII? Yeah, no question, answer "yes" in a heartbeat. A red dot is a red dot, doesn't matter if it is from the Triji or FFII, they work the same from a functional stanpoint, so it isn't 'just' the dot. It's the solidness of the unit, the controls, the view frame size, the coatings, the thickness of the glass. Yeah, the Trijicon is worth the extra money over the FFII hands down. Is it worth the extra money over the FFIII? Again, I don't know. I would think at the very least, depending on the price of a FFIII, it will be keeping Trijicon on their toes. On the FNP Tac's mounting plate it is ROCK SOLID. You could easily cycle the gun by pulling on this thing without a doubt. It is, solid.

Now... my opinion on the FNP....


"This *IS* the coolest thing I have ever seen..."


or shot. Definitely a keeper.

Smooth, easy, great trigger pull in SA. DA, blah... long and heavy... but that's how I want a DA to be if I ever carry it that way. The ability to have the safety on AND cycle the gun, priceless. (Actually that was a main selling point for me). The decocker option, again a really nice touch.

Recoil, well, I'll know tomorrow as I'm digging out my old M1911 for the first time in about 15 years. Recoil was managable. All I can really compare it to is the fiveseven or the PPK/S, the two handguns I've been shooting since last summer. Less of a "crack" feel than the PPK/S and a slower cycle rate than the Fiveseven, more kick than the fiveseven, but not uncontrollably so. I like big grips like the Fiveseven and my FNP has the bulged backstrap. Two handed holding, no problem. I only did about 150 rounds and only one FTF, but... this was letting a novice shoot it. We have family visiting and I took a neice shooting. Yesterday was the first time she handled anything bigger than a beebee gun. She did about 50 rounds with the Fiveseven yesterday. I let her shoot the FNP once with no clip (I just had one in the pipe to be safe since she's kind of a wimp) and she stovepiped it. I'm guessing she broke her wrist. Her hubby, who's in the army, (he's a logistics guy and hasn't seen a gun since basic 16 years ago), cracked off five or ten without an issue. So... overall, very reliable so far, basically no feed issues other than that one.

I easily zeroed it at 15 yards, went to 25 and put 5 inside of a 4" pattern. "Well I guess it is sighted". Put a couple in the dirt at the 50, good. Put up a target at the 100, figured the drop at 100 and put a few in the paper there. Went to the 200 for grins and lobbed some out that way, kicking up dirt around the gongs. I was shooting Blazer Brass 230's, no problems what so ever.

So that's the scoop. Am I happy with the FNP? Yes. Do I want to carry it? Yes... within reason. It is heavy. Pretty light for all that firepower, but the ammo is like a bombload. It will be able to fit my fiveseven holster with the light/laser and red dot. I don't anticipate carrying the FNP that much, that will be the job of the fiveseven and Walther. This is definitely the vehicle/home/trailer/boat defense gun. It reminds me of an Uzi. I thought they were an ugly brick, but they "felt good" in my hand. Same kind of thing with the FNP. Compared to the flowing lines of an FS92, the Walther, or the Colt, this thing is well... ugly. Just not my style of gun to look at. But... it does "feel good", and it "shoots good", and if the lights are off, who the hell cares what it looks like it it can paint a target and hit it. This gun can do that :)

So that's the initial impressions...
Last edited by Snaproll on 12 Jul 2012, 06:32, edited 10 times in total.

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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by blueorison » 11 Jul 2012, 21:04

Great review, Snaproll! Thanks for taking the time to write one up.

I can see and agree with many points you made. I'm looking to see if the FFIII fixes the previous issues.
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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by Snaproll » 12 Jul 2012, 04:27

A couple of things I forgot. The FFII has a plastic cover that protects the unit from bumps and scrapes. That's a nice feature. Thr Trijicon comes with a clear 'bullet proof' case similar to a Pelican case, complete with little air valve like they have. Ok, I've put the sight on the gun, why do I need a really cool but forever empty case? I'm not taking the Triji off the gun, so why do I need a really good case? A cover like the FFII would have been much prefered for the Trigi. The FFIII has a sunshade attachment, but from what I read, it is useless on the FNP because the rear sight is in the way and it can't be used.

If course with the gun being new, it's well oiled, and the oil has been spattering on the Triji, but I guess that is to be expected. No problem cleaning it off with a soft cloth.

One thing I want to make clear, the gun itself, with all the doo-dads is really not that heavy. Given it is a 45, the gun itself is pretty light. But when I say the ammo is like a bomload, it really feels like that when you pop that clip in. Hold a box of Fivesevens. Then hold a box of 45 ACP. The difference becomes real clear.

Another funny thing... after making 380 holes, 5.7, 9 mil and 223 holes for years now, I forgot what 45 holes in paper look like. Not little rips or pencil pokes, but ripped holes where you can see daylight though them. The other funny thing. Plinking at the 200 yard range, when the 230's hit the ground, the dirt and sand puffs were impressive in themselves, like an M80 going off in the sand. Rather than the "plink/puff" with the fiveseven, the FNP was like, "pow... wait... wait... wait... THUMP-shower-O-dirt". Like throwing a rock 200 yards.

Once we eject our house guests, I'm off to Fleet Farm for another 200 rounds and back to the gun range. This time I'm going to compare the FNP to the Fiveseven and my old and loved Colt 45 Series Seventy I've had for 32 years.

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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by Snaproll » 12 Jul 2012, 06:03

Ok, photo. Turned out I did have a Photobucket account I found. Somewhere last year I must have uploaded a photo of my Rock River PDS AR pistol.

Anyway here's a photo of the 57 and a very oily FNP. I'm not quite sure how to post the image so here is the URL instead. FNP

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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by Snaproll » 12 Jul 2012, 06:38

I know holsters are always a bear to find for a lased pistol. One goofly one that works, and I bet it will work with the FNP is the Battlestar Galactica holster that "The Vest Guy" makes as a prop. The series used the 5.7 with some silly grenade launcher in the rail and the holsters they made for the show had to fit the launcher. The holster works great for my Fiveseven with the Verdian laser/light for open carry and I'll bet it will work fine for the lased FNP too.

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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by Snaproll » 12 Jul 2012, 14:04

Just got done banging away with the FNP and M1911. Honestly, I did not notice that much reduced recoil. The 1911 seemed to cycle faster and "sharper", where the FNP was slower and felt like the slide had more momenum. It could be a lot of things, the trigger reset, just getting used to the FNP. Really kind of a hoot shooting a century old gun that was revolutionary in its day, and a high tech contemporary piece, both taking the same cartridges. Both made the same size hole :)

One thing to note. the case the FNP comes in, all the pouches are velcroed in and can be moved and rearranged, except for the strap that holds the gun in place. There is a pouch to hold the front of the FNP, which is entirely too small to fit a light/laser, however... There is a pouch that holds the four backstraps and red dot plate. There is also one that holds the bogus slide lock they have to provide, (plus two that hold the extra mags). Since it is unlikely I'm going to be changing out the backstraps or taking the red dot off, I noticed that it is big enough to slip the front of the gun with light and laser into, to support it, so I moved that to where the front of the gun goes. I took the old front pouch and put some microfiber cloth to clean oil off the Trigi. The long lock case fits a bore snake for quick range gleaning.

What a hoot though, poping off a couple rounds with the Colt, setting it down, picking up the FNP, switching back and forth, red dot, iron sights, red dot... fun, a century of fun :)

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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by blueorison » 12 Jul 2012, 15:05

Great pictures, Jim! The FN TAC (FNP) looks really oiled up!

Still don't have the money to spend past $250ish on an MRD, but I'll take your word that the Triji is worth it!
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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by Snaproll » 14 Jul 2012, 15:33

You know... the more I hold the FNP, the more I look at it, feel its weight, its balance, the heft... and knowing the holes it tears in paper... for some reason the bar scene in Star Wars comes to mind and the bartender shouting "NO BLASTERS-NO BLASTERS!"

The FNP is doesn't strike me as an "elligant weapon", like a Colt 45, a PPK, a Beretta, even a Fiveseven. To me they have "elligant" lines, like a '69 Mutang or Shelby. The FNP is more like an M2 Abrams, just strikes me as a "brute"... that will get the job done.

I guess I won't be taking it into any off-world bars where they don't allow 'blasters'. Somehow, 'blaster' seems to fit it.

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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by Burt Gummer » 29 Sep 2012, 00:31

An RMR runs circles around a Fastfire.

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Re: In the words of Beavis and Butt-head...

Post by blueorison » 29 Sep 2012, 01:10

I've used both.

I won't comment, risking getting into an argument.. let's just say I'm never in the majority of the techniques I use to shoot, versus the "accepted tactical ways" of the shooting/internet community. Many times, people will read an AAR and go, "ohh, ok, I get it". I usually question everything, and go, "Nope, I don't get it, what do you really mean? Why do you think it has to be that way?"

I also don't see gear as companies, or names, or "reputations". I see them as wires and steel; each one as its own.

I use many of them, and know what breaks and what doesn't, from firsthand speaking with their owners.

It is interesting, the ways and patterns of breakage. Just putting it out there, not trying to argue.

Snaproll; I'm not sure what "elligent" lines are... but if you mean halfway between elegant and illegitimate..
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