FNP-45T Fails to cycle with Suppressor on

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SeaHawkDriver-B
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FNP-45T Fails to cycle with Suppressor on

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 26 Feb 2011, 19:31

Pistol: FNP-45T FDE
Suppressor: 2010 Gemtech Blackside .45

:skep:

Odd thing has happened. Pulled out my FNP, loaded up a mag, screwed-on the suppressor, and the darned thing won't eject a round. Spent casings are failing to properly clear the slide and jamming sideways in the receiver port, or else cycling back into the chamber as empty brass, almost like the gun is "under powered".

* Pistol works fine in normal operation without suppressor.

* It worked flawlessly last time the pistol was at the range, no issues.

* I cleaned the pistol throroughly thinking it was just dirty from about 300-400 rounds of .45, cleaning did NOT solve the problem.

*I've never cleaned the suppressor, the manual says not to, in fact, the dirtier the suppressor gets, the quieter its supposed to get.

*Before firing the suppressor on the FNP, I had it on another .45 carbine and put about 25-30 rounds through it, nothing major.

*I inspected the suppressor, there are no signs of any shaving the baffle edges or any round contact, no damage whatsoever, just dirty.

*Some suppressors have "recoil boosters", but I'm unable and not knowledgable enough to know if this particular "booster" is malfunctioning, or where/what the thing looks like/does to begin with, nor how it would necessarily malfunction to begin with. :ponder:

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Re: FNP-45T Fails to cycle with Suppressor on

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 26 Feb 2011, 19:36

Update... after careful study, I think maybe I need to clean and re-grease the recoil booster, its probably siezed. Somehow I missed that tid-bit of information.

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Re: FNP-45T Fails to cycle with Suppressor on

Post by jgreenberg01 » 26 Feb 2011, 20:59

Yes, you do need to clean the L.I.D. after a few hundred rounds. When mine hit 400, the spring in the booster was pretty dirty and required some serious cleaning.

What ammo were you using? I found that Federal 230gr #WM5233 caused that exact same problem: worked fine unsuppressed, but would not cycle the gun with the Blackside attached. I did not experience that problem with any other ammo...
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Re: FNP-45T Fails to cycle with Suppressor on

Post by Esteves » 26 Feb 2011, 21:17

TFM may help. :) http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/pdf/BLACKSIDE.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's from 2005/2006, but states that there's no booster (pg 2.) That's contradicted by the marketing literature http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/BLACKSIDE-45-2p66.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, so you may indeed have a booster. If you do have a booster, you may have damaged it when it was attached to the carbine http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/viewCo ... dpage=7#36" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What ammo were you using? Pg 3. recommends 230+ grains and hints that a lighter recoil spring may be necessary.

GemTech's support staff are very friendly and knowledgeable.
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Re: FNP-45T Fails to cycle with Suppressor on

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 27 Feb 2011, 07:50

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

:wall:

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Re: FNP-45T Fails to cycle with Suppressor on

Post by jgreenberg01 » 27 Feb 2011, 08:50

I don't know why Gemtech has an older version of the manual on their website, but the latest one is from 7/2008. This version does address cleaning the LID (booster). I scanned it to a pdf file but I have no idea how to link to it (photobucket won't do it), so here are the screen shots of the pages that discuss it:

Image

Image
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Re: FNP-45T Fails to cycle with Suppressor on

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 27 Feb 2011, 10:12

Thanks for the post up of the instructions, I figured this is probably what the problem is. My suppressor is locked-up in the safe right now while I'm out to sea, but next week I should be able to get back there and soak it in solvent, chip off the carbon, and re-grease.

My only concern is that I've been shooting the suppressor on a standard fixed-barrel .45 Carbine.. not too many rounds, maybe 100 total. The instructions obviously state not to use a LID suppressor on a fixed-barrel... which i don't see why it would matter, but I'm going to have to rethink my usage. I hate doing all the stupid ATF paperwork and tax-stamps and winding up with a suppressor that I can only use on one firearm.

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Re: FNP-45T Fails to cycle with Suppressor on

Post by srt-4_jon » 27 Feb 2011, 10:30

I don't really know why its not cycling but a suppressor will not get quieter as it gets dirtier.

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Re: FNP-45T Fails to cycle with Suppressor on

Post by jgreenberg01 » 27 Feb 2011, 10:44

SeaHawkDriver-B wrote:Thanks for the post up of the instructions, I figured this is probably what the problem is. My suppressor is locked-up in the safe right now while I'm out to sea, but next week I should be able to get back there and soak it in solvent, chip off the carbon, and re-grease.

My only concern is that I've been shooting the suppressor on a standard fixed-barrel .45 Carbine.. not too many rounds, maybe 100 total. The instructions obviously state not to use a LID suppressor on a fixed-barrel... which i don't see why it would matter, but I'm going to have to rethink my usage. I hate doing all the stupid ATF paperwork and tax-stamps and winding up with a suppressor that I can only use on one firearm.
You might want to call Gemtech's tech support as Esteves suggested. If you are using it on the FNP-45T, they recommend that you use the version with the LID. I believe you can also buy a kit to replace the booster with standard threads allowing you to use it on other guns as well.

Edit: here's an excerpt from their website regarding that:
The BLACKSIDE-45 is currently available threaded either M16x1-LH for the HK USP Tactical, M16x1-RH for the MK23/SOCOM, and 0.578-28 for the Glock 21, 1911, and other barrels. The recoil boosted (L.I.D.) version is currently available threaded 0.578-28 and M16x1-LH for the USP Tactical. Extra pistons to allow a change of threading may be ordered separately for $135.
http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/BLACKSIDE-45-2p66.htm
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Re: FNP-45T Fails to cycle with Suppressor on

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 27 Feb 2011, 12:20

Yeah I have an LID model suppressor, and I wound up having to buy the extra piston that fits the FNP-45. Changing it out was a snap, took all of 30 seconds. However, all of the guns they listed are of the "Browning blow-back design", which means they all essentially function identically. Mounting the suppressor to a fixed-barreled weapon like my H&K UMP45 adds the unintended consequences of having an LID on a weapon that doesn't require one. How this would "damage" the suppressor seems somewhat benign, but manufactueres tend to CYA for just about anything.

My original intent was to have a .45 suppressor designed for the USP-45 pistol, that I could quickly detach and thread onto a UMP-45 SBR, for caliber commonality and convenience. However, since the two weapons use completely different methods to cycle, this has thrown a wrench into my plan. If there were some sort of "kit" that I could replace the LID piston assembly with for use on fixed-barrel .45's, then that might represent an easy solution, but I still lack the ability to quickly transfer 'cans' between weapons.

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Re: FNP-45T Fails to cycle with Suppressor on

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 15 Mar 2011, 04:49

UPDATE:

I finally took the suppressor apart and discovered that the LID spring and piston assembly was completely siezed. I mean it was STUCK, not moving... had to soak it in solvent and then blast it with 'Breakaway' just to get the stupid thing unscrewed. The grease had turned into nothing but some thin white residue. I didn't have any good lithium or automotive grease to apply so I just hit it with a shot of Rem-Oil to keep it from siezing until I can go purchase some.

Note to self, these suppressors are NOT maintenance-free. I only had about 400 rounds through mine and it was in dire shape.

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Re: FNP-45T Fails to cycle with Suppressor on

Post by jgreenberg01 » 15 Mar 2011, 09:37

FWIW - I cleaned the spring in my LID and 200 rounds later it was caked on again and required soaking and SERIOUS scrubbing to get it clean. It's pretty interesting because I didn't use any artificial environment with those 200 rounds and it still was well on its way to getting clogged up...
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Re: FNP-45T Fails to cycle with Suppressor on

Post by Adjuster » 29 Apr 2011, 02:04

From what I have been told, and read, using synthetic axle grease, or just plain cheap vasoline is excellent on most suppressors.

Especially those with moving parts like the LID. Really cake it in there, and no more powder residue in places where you don't want it.

It becomes stuck on the vasoline or grease. (Same with in the baffels, the crap sticks to the "artificial envrionment" v/s the metal in your can.

Call me crazy, but I've also heard that using brake cleaner is an excellent way to hose out your suppressor of all the crap, and then you can re-apply the vasoline. (Use a large gauge syringe to squirt the vasoline in there, and its' much less work than trying to spoon it in with a stick, or common screw driver.)

I used brake cleaner on my AR for years. Works wonders with the gas tube and other parts that get clogged up with carbon fast. (Of course now with the FS2k, I traded my AR for a CX4, and have not missed it one little bit.)

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