Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x 40 FDE for a SCAR?

Discuss the FN lineup of tactical rifles; the FS2000, SCAR, and the venerable FAL.
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Re: Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x 40 FDE for a SCAR?

Post by srt-4_jon » 27 Aug 2012, 07:25

the low mounting of the leupold wont matter on the scar. you need something tall to get a good cheek weld. also with the nightforce, you are paying for durability as well as outstanding glass.

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Re: Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x 40 FDE for a SCAR?

Post by flyingirish04 » 27 Aug 2012, 10:01

srt-4_jon wrote:if you are using it for varmit hunting, you will want the magnification. look at the 6-24 viper pst, swfa ss 5-20, or the newer weaver tacticals. all are ffp and you can get all of them under $1000. ffp is such a great feature.
the only leupolds that are ffp are the er/t and they are much more money.

I agree on your choices, but FFP is really a gimmick in many ways. I wouldn't pay more for it, ever. If you can get it on a cheaper scope, great. But it doesn't make up for having worse glass.

To the OP, you will have a very hard time hitting varmit sized targets other than yotes at 400 yards, regardless of your glass. Best grouping I have ever seen with a 17s at 500 yards is just a hair over 6.5 inches.

That isn't bad for a battle rifle, but for varmint hunting, if you are missing chucks or dogs at 400, it likely isn't the scope that is causing that.
Last edited by flyingirish04 on 27 Aug 2012, 10:12, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x 40 FDE for a SCAR?

Post by flyingirish04 » 27 Aug 2012, 10:09

srt-4_jon wrote:the low mounting of the leupold wont matter on the scar. you need something tall to get a good cheek weld. also with the nightforce, you are paying for durability as well as outstanding glass.

NF 2.5-10x24 is what we had on Mk 12s and Mk 11s in the service. Hard to get now, as NF has gone to the 32mm Objective for their retail line, which is a larger, but still excellent scope.

Personally, I think NF is really the most money you ever need to spend on a scope, unless you have to go lighter for a hunting rig or something and still want that combo of durability and glass, like with a Swaro or Leica. Personally, I just go back to tried and true Leupold.

BUT...

NF is overkill on the SCAR IMO. I really see no reason to put anything more than a $500 scope on something like this and that may be pushing it.
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Re: Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x 40 FDE for a SCAR?

Post by blueorison » 27 Aug 2012, 10:14

Virginian wrote:blueorison - If I got with a NF, which reticle would you suggest? Also, what are my options to color the scope tan without voiding the warranty? I suppose some tan tape might be a viable option.

If I've read correctly on the 17s, that it's tough to get MOA out of the box. Now the reviews that I've read are all using factory ammo. I suspect that I can tighten that up quite a bit finding a load it likes. I'm hopeful for 1" at 200 yards. We shall see and I'll be sure to post a new thread with my success and failures.

I checked with Charles at A&A Arsenal and the long barrel is not available to the public at this time. If it was, I would jump at it. So the short barrel heavy is on my radar now.

Eric
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As for the FFP reticle; it is what you shoot most comfortably with. It also depends which magnification range you use, if you're using a rangefinder in conjunction (like a Leupold rangefinder), and how the rangefinder likes to work.

http://nightforceoptics.com/reticle-detail/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x 40 FDE for a SCAR?

Post by flyingirish04 » 27 Aug 2012, 10:52

You will not get 1" at 200 yards consistantly. Won't happen, even with handloads. The barrels are just not made that well. And the most accurate 308 loads I have experience with is with 175 SMKs. But the twist on the SCAR might not work well with them. It is marginal.

You want something that shoots .5 MOA, and is SA, you need to go with an OBR or a SR-25, or better yet, go with a bolt gun for far less coin.

I don't mean to pick on you, but I am really a bit tired of people buying a SCAR and thinking they have a long range precision weapon or varmint shooter. You don't. It wasn't designed for that. And everyone on the other forum that claims they get that kind of accuracy is lying through their teeth.

It is a great battle rifle, way overpriced, but functions better than just a simple Gas Operated AR. THat is about it.
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Re: Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x 40 FDE for a SCAR?

Post by flyingirish04 » 27 Aug 2012, 11:06

blueorison wrote:
Virginian wrote:
blueorison wrote:
Virginian wrote: Any others that I should look at in this range?


Thanks,

Eric
A lot.
Well that was helpful. :)
You didn't precede with criteria. I have a better idea, now. You have a lot of options for $1500 and under. You really don't need to spend that much, but if you want to, that is your prerogative :) The SCAR 17 will go easily to 1000 yards. It depends how far you want to shoot it.

I would not get over a 1-6x power optic; and personally I would get a 1-4x optic. The eye-relief will generally be better.

If you want a recommendation, you might look at Swarovski. Nightforce. U.S. Optics. I would pick all of these far above a Leupold. This is considering the design, etc. Not just glass clarity, but including thus.

Below the $800 range, which is completely fine for 1000 yard shooting, your options really open up, and many more players come into the arena. This is my opinion.

:)
Blue is pretty good on most stuff. I might step in a bit though on this topic, as distance shooting is kind of the only thing I do right now. Glass is something I have spent a bunch of money in lately. Also, my wealthier shooting buddies have a plethora of scopes around that I am always allowed to shoot. I have shot a ton of high priced scopes, in the past five years particularly, that all aim for that perfect mix of glass, durability, components, and price.

Leupold: for 90% of scoping needs, Leupold is the best option. If you want a cheaper scope, go with their Redfield lines, if you want a solid hunting scope, their VX-3 may be the most underrated line of scopes out there (and that is saying something because they are pretty popular already). YOu want clear as clear optics, their VX-7 glass is better than NF clarity, but for about the same price and less components. They aren't as durable as NF, but have an excellent warranty and replace scopes without question. They also have a line of Tactical scopes that are extremely well designed and built. Look for them to overtake Aimpoint, Trijicon, and Elcan in the future. The are making some fine, fine tac scopes. Great company.

Swaro, no way. Overpriced. Only marginally better than VX-3 glass with their Z-2s, and with only 1" tubes. Only if you have to go lightweight do they even enter the conversation. Their components are not great either, unless you go to there uber expensive Z6s.

NF, don't need anything more. Gold standard choice for tactical and LR sporting shooters. I have a NF NXS G7 5.5-22x50 ready to go on my new custom 338 Lapua Improved for a reason: It simply is the best LR Hunting drop turret scope on the market right now.

USO, Hensoldt, IOR, Premiere: very fine optics, way too overpriced for what you get over NF

Schmidt and Bender: If NF is gold standard, S&Bs are Diamond standard. Better glass than NF, noticeably, but HUGELY EXPENSIVE.

Options not mentioned in this thread yet:

Sighttron. EXCELLENT FOR PRICE. If you want a high magnification and great components and decent glass, VX-2 Leupold quality in fact, go with the SIII.

Minox. Comparable (if not cheaper) to Sighttron on price, not as good of components, better glass.

Again, nothing above the 'Options not mentioned' part of the post really fit your 17S IMO
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Re: Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x 40 FDE for a SCAR?

Post by srt-4_jon » 27 Aug 2012, 13:30

flyingirish04 wrote:
srt-4_jon wrote:if you are using it for varmit hunting, you will want the magnification. look at the 6-24 viper pst, swfa ss 5-20, or the newer weaver tacticals. all are ffp and you can get all of them under $1000. ffp is such a great feature.
the only leupolds that are ffp are the er/t and they are much more money.

I agree on your choices, but FFP is really a gimmick in many ways.
after using one, I Cant agree. whats the poInt of a varIable power scope If the retIcle Is only calIbrated at one magnIfIcatIon range? sure you can sit down and do math and figure things out with work, but ffp makes it soooo much easier. at 500 meters, I need to hold over 4 mil regardless of the magnification I am on. if I didnt, I would have to dial in or try to do math to figure out holdover. also, you dont really need a rangefinder. the reticle being the same size, you use it to measure and figure out difference.

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Re: Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x 40 FDE for a SCAR?

Post by flyingirish04 » 27 Aug 2012, 13:38

Which you can do without a FFP. Your factor just changes. Not that hard, particularly when the constant is provided to you in the manual.

I understand your point, I am just saying several companies try to make up for inferior quality scopes with a FFP reticle. It isn't that much of a game changer,and frankly, with the way I was taught to shoot, it doesn't really do anything for me.

Also, most off brand, second tier brand FFP scopes lose a bit of accuracy because their reticle isn't completely calibrated up with the zoom. I have heard several guys having issues like this with the first Vipers that came out. Why Vortex was slow to let loose with their inventory.


The best out there is an accurately calibrated drop turret. Can't get any quicker, all you need to have is horizontal wind holdovers, and well, the wind velocity too. ;)
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Re: Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x 40 FDE for a SCAR?

Post by srt-4_jon » 27 Aug 2012, 14:33

flyingirish04 wrote:
I understand your point, I am just saying several companies try to make up for inferior quality scopes with a FFP reticle. It isn't that much of a game changer,and frankly, with the way I was taught to shoot, it doesn't really do anything for me.

Also, most off brand, second tier brand FFP scopes lose a bit of accuracy because their reticle isn't completely calibrated up with the zoom. I have heard several guys having issues like this with the first Vipers that came out. Why Vortex was slow to let loose with their inventory.
you are comparing apples to oranges there. I am talking ffp vs sfp, not a good sfp to a sub par ffp. yes you can sit there and do conversions but which is easier/faster? well my reticle is cal'd for x12, my mag is at x20, so how much is the one mil the reticle shows? tIme to break out a pencil and paper. for ffp, it's one mil, all the time.

yes drop turrets are fast but with holdovers, you dont have to touch the scope at all. different ways to get to the same place, I guess.

back to the op, if you are using the gun for varmits, get something with high magnification. you will need it.

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Re: Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x 40 FDE for a SCAR?

Post by Virginian » 27 Aug 2012, 15:03

Ok, I have to think about how to respond to this recent flurry of replies...

flyingirish04 - Point taken on too much magnification. Point taken that over a $500 scope is a waste of $$. Point taken as well that this is a 'battle rifle' and a complete waste of $$ again for my intended purpose. I get it! You're tired of telling people that this isn't a long range and/or varmint rifle. I believe I stated that early in this thread say it was overkill.

Clearly I could go get a GAP precision long range shooter and put a two brazillion dollar LeuNFSchmZei scope on it and shoot fleas off a hound dog at 1,000 yards. That's not what I want to do. Has anyone really tried to dial it in and use in this manner? I'm sure you know some people but my ninja google skillz escape me trying to find real data. I also get it that many post on this rifle on the net are fertilizer. Heck, most of the post regarding guns and accuracy are fertilizer. There's a few places that you can get real intel/data, this forum being one of them.

Having said that, if/when I do this, I'll post up my cheers & jeers and you can post away with the I told you so. lol :) It wouldn't be the first or last time I made an arse of myself. FWIW, I never lie on my posts and I don't filter, meaning if I fail, so be it.

At the end of the day, all I can say it on the surface it appears to be fun! No other reason, my personal enjoyment. I hope you understand... This reply is 'not' pushback from me to you. I still enjoy your responses and wealth of knowledge. Carry on...

srt-4_jon - FFP is my first choice and I'm researching the lower end variations of it now. I agree with your perspective regarding the benefits of a FFP. I will find out and post my results. I agree with Flyingirish04 that to spend what I originally was thinking would be excessive.

Again, thank you for everyone's input. I read each and every one of them and take them into advisement.

Thank you,

Sometimes you have to think outside the box. Here's my 6mmPPC BR groundhog hunting.
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Re: Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x 40 FDE for a SCAR?

Post by flyingirish04 » 27 Aug 2012, 18:44

Most efficient round out there. 6PPC is the only 100 and 200 yard bench choice. Ever shoot any dasher? Love that round. What action is that btw? March scope?

Anyway, my best friend has a 17 and he tried dialing it in with 168s and didn't even get constant MOA groupings at 100 so good luck.

He even had bbl blank from Bartlein that he turned down and machined on his CNC to make his own version of a 17 DMR. It took him forever to tweak it but he was shooting in the sevens out to 500 yards. He swears he is going to rebarrel it again but this time chambering in 6.5x47. Way better round than the 308.

Love to hear your results. Several people claim shooting in fives and sixes at 100 with it. Never seen it but I guess it could happen once or twice.

Hope you are happy with it regardless. I know I don't just enjoy shooting my customs.
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Re: Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x 40 FDE for a SCAR?

Post by Virginian » 28 Aug 2012, 04:23

flyingirish04 wrote:Most efficient round out there. 6PPC is the only 100 and 200 yard bench choice. Ever shoot any dasher? Love that round. What action is that btw? March scope?
I'll post a my build thread on that rifle in the rifle section. A BR rifle was very low on my list and there's a story why I got into it. Hopefully I'll get some time to do the write up later this weekend.

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Re: Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x 40 FDE for a SCAR?

Post by Virginian » 29 Aug 2012, 15:39

Ok a few updates on this issue. A nice fellow bought my 5.7 off this forum and the $$ is in hand. I just got off the horn with A&A Arsenal and he got his hands on a FDE 17s. I'm going over to see Charles & pay for it this weekend and have him send off the pistol FFL to FFL. Charles is the man! Doh, now I feel like the dogthat caught the car I was chasing down the street. :facepalm:

Regarding the scope issue, I think I have read up on so many scopes that they start to bleed into each other.

I wound up going with a Vortex Viper HS Tactical Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 5-15x 44mm Side Focus 1/10 MIL Adjustments Mil-Dot Reticle Matte. This is a Midway exclusive with Vortex. Basically it's a PST minus the illumination and FFP. :( But! The retail on it is only $499. I got my B-day dealeo from Harry Potter or whatever his name is at Midway, came to $435 delivered. There's 16 pages of review on the Hide. Almost seems too good to be true.

Powder, dies, bullets and brass are ordered. Hopefully, I'll be posting some results here in a couple weeks.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/183567" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... roductDesc

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthr ... =14&page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for everyone input and several of you heavily swayed my decision.

Eric

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Re: Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x 40 FDE for a SCAR?

Post by Virginian » 02 Sep 2012, 11:12

The 17s is paid for and I suspect it will come in later this week. :clap: I won't be able to pick it till the following week. I'll have a few days to roll some rounds for in the mean time. When I get all the components, I'll document a review as I go along.

Eric
Last edited by Virginian on 05 Sep 2012, 04:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Leupold LR/T 3.5-10x 40 FDE for a SCAR?

Post by fooschnickens » 04 Sep 2012, 15:09

Good stuff. Can't wait to see your results. :)
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