SCAR vs HK 556a

Discuss the FN lineup of tactical rifles; the FS2000, SCAR, and the venerable FAL.
FNtacticalNUT
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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by FNtacticalNUT » 05 Dec 2011, 21:23

This is the cancellation of the MK16 [from Wikipedia]

On June 25, 2010 SOCOM announced that it was canceling the acquisition of the MK-16 citing limited funds and a lack of enough of a performance difference in another 5.56mm rifle to justify the purchase. Remaining funds would be expended for the MK-17 7.62×51 mm version and the MK-20 sniper variant.[27] "FNH USA believes the issue is not whether the SCAR, and specifically the [originally contracted] MK 16 variant, is the superior weapon system available today ... it has already been proven to be just that, ... recently passing Milestone C and determined to be operationally effective / operationally suitable (OE/OS) for fielding. The issue is whether or not the requirement for a 5.56mm replacement outweighs the numerous other requirements competing for the customers’ limited budget. That is a question that will only be determined by the customer." [28] FN Herstal though has stated that the 5.56mm variant will be retained by SOCOM, and that "The choice between the 5.56 and the 7.62 caliber will be left to the discretion of each constitutive component of USSOCOM's Joint Command (e.g. SEALs, Rangers, Army Special Forces, MARSOC, AFSOC) depending on their specific missions on today's battlefield." [29]

As of August 19, 2010 word from US Special Operations Command has not changed. SOCOM has decided to procure the 7.62 mm MK-17 rifle, the 40mm MK-13 grenade launcher and the 7.62mm MK-20 Sniper Support rifle variants of the Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle (SCAR) manufactured by FN. SOCOM will not purchase the 5.56mm MK-16. At this point the individual service component commands within SOCOM (Army Special Operations Command, Naval Special Warfare Command, Air Force Special Operations Command, and Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command) may or may not still buy the 5.56mm MK-16 SCAR for some or all of their respective subordinate units even with overall US Special Operations Command opting not to.[

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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by flyingirish04 » 05 Dec 2011, 21:36

Yep, that's the FN press release. And that is what FNH believes. I agree. And procurement will continue at a limited basis. It will not be adopted service wide like the HK in the IAR, nor will SOCOM be limited to it in its procurement. KAC and HK aren't excluded either. And the only thing clear is that a modified AR will be adopted by combat arms units of the military and the USMC has excluded FN from their procurement structure based on its findings in the IAR testing.

That was my point. The only proving ground exercise where HK went head to head with FNH, the HK was selected.

http://www.defensereview.com/us-marine- ... 49-sawlmg/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by blueorison » 05 Dec 2011, 22:06

I've seen many MOA and sub-MOA targets from the SCAR 5.56 and .308. Per your point, this has to be repeatable. So I will try to get my hands on a 16 or 17 and shoot it at 100 yards and see if it consistently holds that MOA and zero.

I'm really interested in the SCARs and would like to hear more facts about it. :thumb:

flyingirish04 wrote:The USMC just went through extensive trials with the military SCAR 17 and 16 along side HK's upgrade to the 416 and a 7.62 version. The HK blew it out of the water.

It is designed off the 416 design they had for the military which may be the best piston system on the market. It is a million times smoother than the SCAR or most ARs.

Irish do you mind citing some sources for these two points you made? Thanks!
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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by flyingirish04 » 06 Dec 2011, 06:37

See link above.
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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by fooschnickens » 06 Dec 2011, 07:12

Welp. There goes another member.

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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by flyingirish04 » 06 Dec 2011, 07:30

No, he is still here. All is well. And it seems he an energetic add to the forum. :thumb:

Unless you were talking about yourself, in which case GOOD RIDDANCE! :laugh: Seriously, just kidding.
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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by Cyberfly » 06 Dec 2011, 10:00

I still think the Ruger 556 is worth looking at.
Less money and a darn good rifle.

Hoodathunk I'd recommend a Ruger?!
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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by FNtacticalNUT » 06 Dec 2011, 13:08

You really thought you could get rid of me that easy?
Come on now it is not that easy.
I knew Mr IRISH would not agree with what I posted. But it is not from FNH nor from a invovled party. And yes KAC and HK were never excluded but this month removed themselves from the bidding contract. I can not reveal my sources on that matter. But you will see soon enough when it is let out of the bag. I can not speak for them nor do I claim to. But I do know that much.
The defense review article was dated 12/4/09. A full 2 years ago and it is only relevent to replace the FN M249 . And for the testing I know HK is a great product but I also know that SOCOM is still buying the SCAR. And yes every branch has the right to choose their own weapon of choice which is what USMC has done. But this still does not prove that every military branch is accepting it. This is only the testing of one branch of the military. How about the testing for SOCOM that it was the only platform then to out perform the competition.
I still know several SPEC OP guys in the NAVY and ARMY that are using the SCARS. These are battle proven and very reliable as are most FNH products.
But none the less this is getting away from the fact that you say that HK blows it out of the water.
My point is that the SCAR is a premium product that is priced at just that.
It is proven to be a leader in the industry and your personal opinion does not take that away from that platform.
This is nothing more than 1 man's opinion on this matter. The SCAR has been proven to be reliable and everyone that I know loves it that relies on it.
I hope that this information will be helpful for you to make an educated decision on purchasing the SCAR.
But you will need to buy where your heart is. Not where mine is at. :p :p

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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by FNtacticalNUT » 06 Dec 2011, 13:18

The Ruger 556 is a fine rifle. But to me it is very top heavy and nose heavy. After handling the SCAR and going to another platform is tough for me. The felt recoil is also much different. The only issue that I have with RUGER is it is INVESTMENT CASTING. I do not know if they do it wil the 556 but I would guess that they do because everything else they make is Investment Casting.
But I do like the platform of the RUGER 556 as they are a great value. :agree:

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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by Cyberfly » 06 Dec 2011, 13:49

I don't know if they cast or mill the Ruger. Another one I'd check on is the S&W M&P 556, but again, I don't know if they are cast or milled either. I handled one at a police shoot out and that is ONE AR platform that I would purchase on purpose.
True, it isn't a SCAR, nor is it an H&K, nor is it a Sig, but you could buy 2 of the S&W's for the price of one of those 'elitist' weapon systems! Hahahahaha...sorry guys, I had to!
But seriously, I really did like the M&P. Like I said, it's not an upper end shooter like those mentioned above, but I really, REALLY did like the way it felt and handled.
If I run across another Ruger, though...I'll check into whether she's milled or cast. That's a good thing to know.
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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by flyingirish04 » 06 Dec 2011, 15:08

She is forged like most mainstream ARs.

Great to see you back Fly!
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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by blueorison » 07 Dec 2011, 01:21

Cyberfly wrote: True, it isn't a SCAR, nor is it an H&K, nor is it a Sig, but you could buy 2 of the S&W's for the price of one of those 'elitist' weapon systems! Hahahahaha...sorry guys, I had to!
LOL. :thumb:

I like S&W M&P15's. I've shot them a bunch and would definitely recommend them.
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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by Cyberfly » 07 Dec 2011, 05:35

S&W got something right with them, didn't they? I can't quite put my finger on it, but there is something different about them. True, they still aren't a Sig, but they are light, tight and ready to fight. I loved the feel, the action and the way they handled.
One of the best feeling AR's I ever handled.
As much as I hate to say it, I liked it even better than the Colt M4.
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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by toyslr » 07 Dec 2011, 10:29

I've sold ALOT of the Ruger 556's and for the money, it is a good deal! You get a variable gas piston rifle with a troy battle rail, troy flip up sights, hogue grip, and 3 p-mags for just under $1400.00. Not a bad deal considering most other gas piston rigs will cost you atleast 1800-1900

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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by SamM » 19 Jan 2012, 15:36

If you guys are still looking at ARs, you need to be looking at Noveske. Add a piston kit and you've got something. I just bought a matched Noveske upper and lower and I'm putting it together myself. There's no better way to do it. The Noveske stuff is very well made.

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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 19 Jan 2012, 16:00

Go buy a Bob's Machine, Tool, and Muffler shop AR.... nobdoy beats the BMT&M stuff, hands down! Yeah, they've only been making piston uppers for 6 weeks, but they started years ago making AR accessories when the ban was lifted in 2004. If you know whats what and have been following their sponsorship on BARF.com, then you know BMT&M makes some sick AR parts. They have solved all the problems with AR's and make the 1960's armalite design into a completely modern rifle... and at least comparable or better than the 643 other AR manufacturers on the scene.

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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by flyingirish04 » 19 Jan 2012, 20:38

I know BMT&M. They are decent, but to say they are the best is not something you can do with intellectual honesty. They make a good reliable battle rifle, but no one, and I repeat no one sees them as anything more than the other custom billet guys. Great product though for sure, just not in a world of its own by any means.

Noveske was the game to beat, but they are now way less of a gun in comparison to the competition, for way more than those other manufacturers. It is the AR of 3 years ago. Not the best that is in the game now. Still great short piston uppers if you want to go Class 3. Only way I would buy them over some of the newer guys in the game like SI or JL or BR or LT.

The truth is, I can't pick one that is absolute best AR. There are several excellent, all encompassing custom AR manufacturers. Generally, billet machined ARs with a light weight yet smooth piston (or gas, some of those new systems are pretty good too and fit 99% of what people need) and most importantly a quality custom barrels is where to start. The rest is pretty much just white noise and marketing mumbo jumbo. IN the end it is a gun so the same principles apply. Accuracy, reliability, and durability.
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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by tombirdman » 03 Feb 2012, 23:02

Cyberfly wrote:I still think the Ruger 556 is worth looking at.
Less money and a darn good rifle.

Hoodathunk I'd recommend a Ruger?!
:agree:


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I second that !

I like mine as well as the HK.

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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by tombirdman » 03 Feb 2012, 23:10

FNtacticalNUT wrote:The Ruger 556 is a fine rifle. But to me it is very top heavy and nose heavy. After handling the SCAR and going to another platform is tough for me. The felt recoil is also much different. The only issue that I have with RUGER is it is INVESTMENT CASTING. I do not know if they do it wil the 556 but I would guess that they do because everything else they make is Investment Casting.
But I do like the platform of the RUGER 556 as they are a great value. :agree:

:thumb: :thumb:

They have a seperate investment casting business and make many things, including AR parts for other companies.
It is a very big business for them.

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Re: SCAR vs HK 556a

Post by tombirdman » 03 Feb 2012, 23:13

flyingirish04 wrote:She is forged like most mainstream ARs.

Great to see you back Fly!

:agree:

I agree !

They do forgings, not castings !

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