Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Reloading info for the 5.7x28mm

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smcharchan
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Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by smcharchan » 26 Oct 2009, 14:03

Hello all, I'm a long time reader but this is my first post.

I feel obligated to say thank you for all the great information and for all the time dedicated to developing safe loads for this cartridge.

I have read the wiki info posted regarding reloading this round, searched for and read every post that contained the word subsonic, and read just about every other post regarding reloading the 5.7, but I still can't find a suitable subsonic load.

Why do I want a good subsonic load? Here's why:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxxxxkq48Qk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Please help! I have tried loads with both 2400 and Power Pistol behind 55gr FMJ's, but they are not stabilizing and are keyholing at distances as short as 5 yards! I have managed to get some 45gr Hornady HPs meant for the Hornet to stabilize, but I want the little bit of extra energy that the 55gr projos will provide.

Does anyone have a good load that they can share with the group?

Thanks everyone! :thumb:

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f3rr37
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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by f3rr37 » 26 Oct 2009, 14:13

Welcome! I'm sure someone will pipe up soon enough with a suggestion for a load.

Why is it all these people are tempting me to buy another FiveseveN? :wall:

:laugh:

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Hobknob
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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by Hobknob » 26 Oct 2009, 14:41

Keyholing is a bit odd on a 55gr (even subsonic). Just out of curiosity, was the keyholing out of the FsN with or without the suppressor (wondering if it is having an influence on the stability).
I've had good luck stabilizing up to 62gr projectiles, so I'm curious why yours aren't. I don't have my load data in front of me, but I'll take a look later and try and get that for you.
You mentioned, you read any post relating to subsonics and didn't find what you were looking for - I personally haven't tried 2400 (I think I've tried PP but I don't remember). Are you locked into those two powders, or are you open to picking up a different kind?
There is a guy who posted some really heavy projectiles and had them stabilize, but I don't remember the post off the top of my head.

62gr stuff
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4907

55gr stuff
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=115

Hope that helps for starters
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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by Grantness » 26 Oct 2009, 14:43

1moreaug has done some nice work with subsonics. He had some success w/ AA57444 (but im not sure if he ever used a FsN), and a couple others I think. Maybe he could help you out?

Hobnob created some subsonic loads w/ HS7 & 62gr bullets: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4907&hilit=subsonic" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . He got close w/ 5gr bullets, but didnt go quite low enough. I'd be willing to bet you could get there with ~4.8gr.

I seem to remember tejohnson loading some subsonics as well :ponder:


Ive never really tried to create a good subsonic load, but I did dabble w/ N350 last fourth of july just to make something I could shoot off around the house. I cant really give you a specific load, but I bet if you went down close to 4gr or lower you'd be able to go subsonic w/ a 55gr bullet. Apparantly you can take True Blue that low as well.

I'll have to yield the floor to someone more experienced w/ subsonics than I.

Oh...one more thing. Welcome to the forum! :cya: There's a chance you might find more information as a silver/gold member :D

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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by smcharchan » 27 Oct 2009, 03:08

Thanks everyone. I'll answer a couple of specific questions:
Hobknob wrote:Keyholing is a bit odd on a 55gr (even subsonic). Just out of curiosity, was the keyholing out of the FsN with or without the suppressor (wondering if it is having an influence on the stability).
I saw keholing with the suppressor on the gun, got scared (of course!) and did all further testing without the can on.
Hobknob wrote:I've had good luck stabilizing up to 62gr projectiles, so I'm curious why yours aren't.
Yeah, I have read your posts and seeing that you got the loooong ss109 projo to stabilize gave me much hope for success.
Hobknob wrote:Are you locked into those two powders, or are you open to picking up a different kind?
I've got plenty of different powders sitting around, and I'm willing to buy more. I think I'll try HS7 next.
Grantness wrote:1moreaug has done some nice work with subsonics. He had some success w/ AA57444 (but im not sure if he ever used a FsN), and a couple others I think. Maybe he could help you out?
I read his posts regarding 5744 and Clays Grantness, but he wasn't too satisfied with the results. I'm hoping he'll also chime in with any new info.

Thanks for the warm welcome. I will certainly share my results with the group once I find a good solution.

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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by ChuckD » 27 Oct 2009, 09:38

smcharchan wrote: I've got plenty of different powders sitting around, and I'm willing to buy more. I think I'll try HS7 next.
I'm sure if you find more HS7, you should let the forum know as it was recently discontinued.

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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by njogi » 29 Oct 2009, 08:30

I am very interested and have loaded some for quite some time but my work has kept me too busy to go to range yet and also have time to chrono them..on the subs.



Medula Oblongata had posted on 1-20-2007 somewhere:
4.6 3N37 (can be pushed higher or lower depending if target load or suppressor use)
[ note: Medula Oblongata had written the loads were max loads, I am assuming 4.6g would be the max without suppressor]

Medula Oblongata wrote in another post.
"TB is safe down to about 2.2 grains; although ignition can be a little spotty down at those charges. Light loads are often better with a more voluminous powder like Power Pistol or Blue Dot."

"For a subsonic load, I'd start at 4.2 grains of TB and work down. Stop when the bullet stops coming out the BBL"

-------------------
Adding to Hobnob's True Blue data on the 55g FMJ. Maybe True Blue would a good try.

Also this Data, recorded using True Blue by someone:

Bullet: 55grn FMJ BT Primer: Small Rifle Primer
Powder Grains Speed Grains Speed Notes Ramshot True Blue 3.1 1129

Bullet: 55grn Nosler Bal Tip Primer: Small Rifle Primer
Powder Grains Speed Grains Speed Notes Ramshot True Blue 3.1 1144

Bullet: 55grn Sierra Primer: Small Rifle Primer
Powder Grains Speed Grains Speed Notes Ramshot True Blue 3.1 1072 Ramshot True Blue 4.4 1290 4.6 1328 Ramshot True Blue 5.0 5.2 1427 Stout
-----------------------

I am assuming you have already tried these using Power Pistol maybe...Posted by tejohnson - I do not know the barrel lenght on this load:

"Alliant Power Pistol - could be added to the list. 2.7gn of it with a Hornady 55gn flat base spire point (short projectile) at 1.589" OAL makes for a decent plinking subsonic. Quite a cheap load, and you get about a 2500 subsonic rounds from 1 lb."
---------------------------
I think Blue Dot might be good to try...

----

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f3rr37
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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by f3rr37 » 29 Oct 2009, 09:35

FiveseveN or PS90, if PS90, what barrel length?

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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by laztat » 29 Oct 2009, 12:29

Nice Video...We're all big fans of Pictures and Videos

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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by tejohnson » 02 Nov 2009, 06:30

I had some luck with 2.7 grain of Power Pistol with the Hornady 55 grain spire point projectile and CCI-400 primer. The spire points have a flat base and short length. With a longer/max OAL, it seems like a perfect combination for the 10" bbl.



I have also used HS6 and True Blue, but the loads seem quite a bit more dirty.

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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by Rapier1772 » 02 Nov 2009, 06:37

Nice! And a fun way to prune trees :laugh:
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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by smcharchan » 03 Nov 2009, 10:51

f3rr37 wrote:FiveseveN or PS90, if PS90, what barrel length?
I'm loading for the fiveseven pistol.

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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by Pete D » 19 Nov 2009, 01:57

Just saw this thread.
How subsonic do you want to go? Back in 2006 (data lost, I'm supposing) in response to another query, I tried IMR 4064 as a way of keeping velocity down.
9.4 grains of 4064, essentially a caseful - right to the neck - was loaded with a 45 grain bullet and a CCI-400 primer.
The five shot string was 920,931,956,971,882. There were no malfunctions. Accuracy at 25 yards was acceptable - no keyholing.
Not sure at all if that would be appropriate for the firearm in question; it worked in the pistol.
I did not pursue it further.
Pete

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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by Rapier1772 » 07 Sep 2010, 10:49

I am trying my hand at these so some useful advice would be appreciated :D

I have read on the Developing Subsonics page (I think Esteves provided the link) not to go below 30% case capacity.

Has anyone actually measured the capacity of a 5.7 case? Wikipedia :skep: says case volume was .9cm³ (14gr water) but I did my own water testing & my numbers didn't match. I'm not in a lab of course but I scaled the water & it was only 10.3gr which works out to be .67cm³. And yes, I had already cleaned them :skep:
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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by panzermk2 » 07 Sep 2010, 14:08

12.11 Gr .786cm³
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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by Rapier1772 » 07 Sep 2010, 14:38

Thank you!
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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by Rapier1772 » 08 Sep 2010, 12:44

satellitedr3ams wrote:apparently a 52gr hornady hp and gr of hs-6 give you a subsonic, there is a video of a guy shooting them on youtube.
How many grains of HS-6? :p
This linked page said not to go below 30% case volume http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/DevelopSubsonic.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm new to this so I don't want to push it yet. One guy said I could use cornmeal as a filler though, or washed wool.
I have found the following loads but they were all using 55gr FMJ. I am going to try 50gr V-max.
AA #5744 5.4gr
AA #7 3.2gr but there wasn't enough powder in the case (30% volume thing)
Clays 2.7gr
True Blue 3.0gr but there wasn't enough powder in the case (30% volume thing)
VV 3N37 3.4gr
HS-6 3.4gr Borderline on case volume :skep:
VV N350 3.2gr out of an AR-57 w/16" barrel & 45gr Sinterfire (don't have that powder anyway)
Power Pistol 2.7gr - don't have that powder
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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by Rapier1772 » 08 Sep 2010, 13:39

That's a lot of empty space in the case. I suppose I should start looking at what to use for fillers to keep the powder back if I am going to go that low. :?:
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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by panzermk2 » 08 Sep 2010, 20:23

Don't screw with fillers. You like your hand correct?
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Re: Ok folks, I need some help with subsonics

Post by Rapier1772 » 08 Sep 2010, 20:55

Of course I do, it does all my favorite things :laugh:

I was doing some more reading on fillers today - pretty much everywhere & everyone said don't use them in a necked case. So I guess I will just stick with the >30% rule for now.
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