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Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 20 Jul 2016, 09:20
by Lucifer
I saw some gel tests where factory SS197SR expanded unreliably. I think the only one he got good expansion on was a random high vel round about 1770fps (most were closer to 1700fps). Hornady says in their literature expansion down to 1600fps, but the product page has 2000fps as the min muzzle velocity.

Anyone do research or tests on this?

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 20 Jul 2016, 10:31
by panzermk2
The issue is expand into what?

Even more so when the V-Max does not expand traditionally anyway.

Get it going past 1700fps and it will perform.

Keep in mind the Ft. Bliss shooter used SS197 that uses the same bullet but slower and he had no issues dropping people.

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 22 Jul 2016, 02:15
by spyderco monkey
panzermk2 wrote:The issue is expand into what?

Even more so when the V-Max does not expand traditionally anyway.

Get it going past 1700fps and it will perform.

Keep in mind the Ft. Bliss shooter used SS197 that uses the same bullet but slower and he had no issues dropping people.
I had read that he used ss192?

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 22 Jul 2016, 02:28
by DoubleJ
Dropping people? Only one person other than the bad guy was killed at Ft. Bliss.

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 22 Jul 2016, 04:59
by panzermk2
spyderco monkey wrote:
panzermk2 wrote:The issue is expand into what?

Even more so when the V-Max does not expand traditionally anyway.

Get it going past 1700fps and it will perform.

Keep in mind the Ft. Bliss shooter used SS197 that uses the same bullet but slower and he had no issues dropping people.
I had read that he used ss192?
Nope pretty much ALL 197

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 22 Jul 2016, 05:08
by panzermk2
DoubleJ wrote:Dropping people? Only one person other than the bad guy was killed at Ft. Bliss.
When one shot explodes a leg bone and the person drops, they are dropped.



When SS197 is the round the drug cartels get a hold of most often for their preferred weapon the FsN and uses it kill hundreds if not thousands in their drug wars so it works well enough.


Also spend some time searching the forum, the 40gr V-Max rounds from FNH and Elite Ammunition have been tested many times by members of this forum since the day they where installed.


You can also check out these youtube pages of members whom have tested ALL 5.7 rounds extensively.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BuffmanLT1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


https://www.youtube.com/user/AmendmentNo2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 22 Jul 2016, 08:39
by panzermk2
Here are some test vids from a few years back,






Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 22 Jul 2016, 09:49
by spyderco monkey
Given the boost of velocity provided by the 16" barrel, would you suggest the SS197 or SS198 for HD?

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 22 Jul 2016, 10:46
by panzermk2
Home Defense? What I refer to as night stand where other family members and neighbor perforation is not wanted?

SS197, the 198 from a PS90 is like me S4M from a pistol, overkill for inside the house. If you're worried about SHTF have a second magazine full of SS198/S4M.

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 23 Jul 2016, 08:45
by DoubleJ
panzermk2 wrote:
DoubleJ wrote:Dropping people? Only one person other than the bad guy was killed at Ft. Bliss.
When one shot explodes a leg bone and the person drops, they are dropped.



When SS197 is the round the drug cartels get a hold of most often for their preferred weapon the FsN and uses it kill hundreds if not thousands in their drug wars so it works well enough.


Also spend some time searching the forum, the 40gr V-Max rounds from FNH and Elite Ammunition have been tested many times by members of this forum since the day they where installed.


You can also check out these youtube pages of members whom have tested ALL 5.7 rounds extensively.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BuffmanLT1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


https://www.youtube.com/user/AmendmentNo2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Again, only one person was killed at Ft. Bliss besides by the bad guy.

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 25 Jul 2016, 08:19
by galexander
I think you mean the Ft. Hood shooting. Ft. Bliss involved a .380, no?

panzermk2 wrote:The issue is expand into what?

Even more so when the V-Max does not expand traditionally anyway.

Get it going past 1700fps and it will perform.

Keep in mind the Ft. Bliss shooter used SS197 that uses the same bullet but slower and he had no issues dropping people.

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 25 Jul 2016, 12:07
by panzermk2
DoubleJ wrote:
panzermk2 wrote:
DoubleJ wrote:Dropping people? Only one person other than the bad guy was killed at Ft. Bliss.
When one shot explodes a leg bone and the person drops, they are dropped.



When SS197 is the round the drug cartels get a hold of most often for their preferred weapon the FsN and uses it kill hundreds if not thousands in their drug wars so it works well enough.


Also spend some time searching the forum, the 40gr V-Max rounds from FNH and Elite Ammunition have been tested many times by members of this forum since the day they where installed.


You can also check out these youtube pages of members whom have tested ALL 5.7 rounds extensively.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BuffmanLT1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


https://www.youtube.com/user/AmendmentNo2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Again, only one person was killed at Ft. Bliss besides by the bad guy.

Dropped means OUT OF FIGHT. If so much of your leg is damaged so bad that the medical treatment for it starts at amputation, you are dropped, you are out of the fight.

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 25 Jul 2016, 12:09
by panzermk2
Of course again ignoring the 100s if not thousands of people killed with the FsN by the drug cartels.

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 31 Jul 2016, 02:56
by Fotis
Fort Hood or Fort Bliss?

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 31 Jul 2016, 20:05
by Buffman
Fotis wrote:Fort Hood or Fort Bliss?
Pretty sure he meant Ft. Hood..

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 01 Aug 2016, 08:16
by panzermk2
Both are in TX, Both been home to the ACR and yes I mixed them up. You got me.

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 31 Oct 2016, 08:26
by Fotis
DoubleJ wrote:Dropping people? Only one person other than the bad guy was killed at Ft. Bliss.
The bad guy is still alive

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 31 Oct 2016, 08:27
by Fotis
panzermk2 wrote:
DoubleJ wrote:
panzermk2 wrote:
DoubleJ wrote:Dropping people? Only one person other than the bad guy was killed at Ft. Bliss.
When one shot explodes a leg bone and the person drops, they are dropped.



When SS197 is the round the drug cartels get a hold of most often for their preferred weapon the FsN and uses it kill hundreds if not thousands in their drug wars so it works well enough.


Also spend some time searching the forum, the 40gr V-Max rounds from FNH and Elite Ammunition have been tested many times by members of this forum since the day they where installed.


You can also check out these youtube pages of members whom have tested ALL 5.7 rounds extensively.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BuffmanLT1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


https://www.youtube.com/user/AmendmentNo2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Again, only one person was killed at Ft. Bliss besides by the bad guy.

Dropped means OUT OF FIGHT. If so much of your leg is damaged so bad that the medical treatment for it starts at amputation, you are dropped, you are out of the fight.
I concur. The responding female officer was shot in the leg and her femur shattered in 63 pieces!

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 19 Dec 2016, 18:02
by Kiran04
The issue with 40grain V-max is not expansion. The ballistics tests I've seen have it clocked at 1700 fps. It does not fully expand, but it tumbles like a SOB and still generates more than lethal wound channels. It also makes adequate penetration depths. That's in standard blue box ammo.

Re: Min Velocity for Reliable Expansion w 40gr VMax?

Posted: 19 Dec 2016, 19:48
by Buffman
Kiran04 wrote:The issue with 40grain V-max is not expansion. The ballistics tests I've seen have it clocked at 1700 fps. It does not fully expand, but it tumbles like a SOB and still generates more than lethal wound channels. It also makes adequate penetration depths. That's in standard blue box ammo.
+1 @ 1700 fps