Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
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Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
I just started loading 5.7x28 for my Five-seveN. I fired 59 rounds at the range today through my brand new gun, and saw the slide short stroke a number of times. In addition, the flash, recoil, and noise from the fired rounds was very inconsistent. One round would produce a huge fireball, and the next would produce a more subdued "pop". Ejection distances varied from going 15 feet downrange to landing right in front of me. Several rounds barely cycled the slide, and left the spent brass in the chamber. These shots had noticeably less recoil than most others.
I used the following load:
Wolf Small Rifle Primer
Sinterfire 42gr bullet
5.8gr True Blue (weighed every charge)
1.130" Trim Length
1.585" OAL
The first 39 rounds were not crimped. The last 20 all received a light crimp with a Lee FCD. The failures were roughly evenly distributed with both crimped and uncrimped rounds.
The brass I used was all in good condition. I initially cleaned them with Simple Green, and followed up with a 1.5hr tumble in untreated corn cob media to remove the case lube after sizing. I am certain that the coating was fully intact.
The rounds all fired and did not exhibit any pressure signs. The groups weren't too bad either. I chrono'd them with a MagnetoSpeed chronograph with the following results:
Series Shot Speed
3 1 1784 ft/s
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 4 Shots: 8
Min 1752 Max 1843
Avg 1809 S-D 34.5
ES 91
Series Shot Speed
4 1 1782 ft/s
4 2 1803 ft/s
4 3 1841 ft/s
4 4 1843 ft/s
4 5 1826 ft/s
4 6 1843 ft/s
4 7 1752 ft/s
4 8 1782 ft/s
Series 5 Shots: 10
Min 1780 Max 1857
Avg 1816 S-D 21.8
ES 77
Series Shot Speed
5 1 1780 ft/s
5 2 1793 ft/s
5 3 1826 ft/s
5 4 1813 ft/s
5 5 1799 ft/s
5 6 1857 ft/s
5 7 1834 ft/s
5 8 1821 ft/s
5 9 1815 ft/s
5 10 1823 ft/s
Series 6 Shots: 9
Min 1798 Max 1862
Avg 1826 S-D 18.1
ES 64
Series Shot Speed
6 1 1862 ft/s
6 2 1829 ft/s
6 3 1823 ft/s
6 4 1841 ft/s
6 5 1813 ft/s
6 6 1818 ft/s
6 7 1798 ft/s
6 8 1819 ft/s
6 9 1833 ft/s
So there were a couple of shots that registered unusually low velocities. However, this does not seem to reflect to extreme level of inconsistency that I felt when firing the gun, as well as the multiple failures to extract. I'm guessing that some rounds experienced incomplete powder burn, but I can't figure out why that would happen.
I used the following load:
Wolf Small Rifle Primer
Sinterfire 42gr bullet
5.8gr True Blue (weighed every charge)
1.130" Trim Length
1.585" OAL
The first 39 rounds were not crimped. The last 20 all received a light crimp with a Lee FCD. The failures were roughly evenly distributed with both crimped and uncrimped rounds.
The brass I used was all in good condition. I initially cleaned them with Simple Green, and followed up with a 1.5hr tumble in untreated corn cob media to remove the case lube after sizing. I am certain that the coating was fully intact.
The rounds all fired and did not exhibit any pressure signs. The groups weren't too bad either. I chrono'd them with a MagnetoSpeed chronograph with the following results:
Series Shot Speed
3 1 1784 ft/s
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 4 Shots: 8
Min 1752 Max 1843
Avg 1809 S-D 34.5
ES 91
Series Shot Speed
4 1 1782 ft/s
4 2 1803 ft/s
4 3 1841 ft/s
4 4 1843 ft/s
4 5 1826 ft/s
4 6 1843 ft/s
4 7 1752 ft/s
4 8 1782 ft/s
Series 5 Shots: 10
Min 1780 Max 1857
Avg 1816 S-D 21.8
ES 77
Series Shot Speed
5 1 1780 ft/s
5 2 1793 ft/s
5 3 1826 ft/s
5 4 1813 ft/s
5 5 1799 ft/s
5 6 1857 ft/s
5 7 1834 ft/s
5 8 1821 ft/s
5 9 1815 ft/s
5 10 1823 ft/s
Series 6 Shots: 9
Min 1798 Max 1862
Avg 1826 S-D 18.1
ES 64
Series Shot Speed
6 1 1862 ft/s
6 2 1829 ft/s
6 3 1823 ft/s
6 4 1841 ft/s
6 5 1813 ft/s
6 6 1818 ft/s
6 7 1798 ft/s
6 8 1819 ft/s
6 9 1833 ft/s
So there were a couple of shots that registered unusually low velocities. However, this does not seem to reflect to extreme level of inconsistency that I felt when firing the gun, as well as the multiple failures to extract. I'm guessing that some rounds experienced incomplete powder burn, but I can't figure out why that would happen.
Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
What are you using to weight your charges? I had a similar issue with an electric scale that was having electromagnetic interferences and the weights were inconsistent until I isolated it and used an anti static spray on the parts.
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Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
I only have issue with the LFC on my rounds, but it does cause the behavior you describe. No idea the cause.
Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
One other thing that can cause the inconsistencies is the amount of crimp. If every case is not crimped with equal pressure and location on the neck and such can also cause that. Thats why crimping can be such a pita to get set right.
"Let us never forget that good intelligence saves American lives and protects our freedom."
-Ronald Reagan
-Ronald Reagan
Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
Could have something to do with the sinterfire bullets.
I seem to recall needing to use caution crimping them (i avoid it).
Also, the shooters grip can affect cycling.
I've never bothered tumbling 5.7 cases. Simple green and dish soap followed by a water rinse works great and u don't have to worry about damaging the coating or accidentally capturing some media.
I seem to recall needing to use caution crimping them (i avoid it).
Also, the shooters grip can affect cycling.
I've never bothered tumbling 5.7 cases. Simple green and dish soap followed by a water rinse works great and u don't have to worry about damaging the coating or accidentally capturing some media.
Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
What Grant said about the crimping. Sinterfire recommended no crimping. It could crack the brittle bullet. I glued mine and had no problems. Although it was a bit tedious gluing. Clear nail polish (nitrocellulose) was used to glue.
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Thomas Jefferson
Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
Tell us more about where you reload. Cold garage to warm house for any of the components? I've not used sinterfires with BD, but they work fine with AA7. Could be a powder or primer contamination issue.
Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
How did you glue it? Just apply it to the bullet before pressing it in? Did it take a long time and complicate the process? Worth? Yes/no? How long do you have to adjust bullet depth before the glue dries?LK45s wrote:What Grant said about the crimping. Sinterfire recommended no crimping. It could crack the brittle bullet. I glued mine and had no problems. Although it was a bit tedious gluing. Clear nail polish (nitrocellulose) was used to glue.
Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
Interesting on the eject issues.
Thats the only thing I noticed before my gun blew apart while shooting some reloads of unknown origin.
Thats the only thing I noticed before my gun blew apart while shooting some reloads of unknown origin.
Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
WOW! I hope you're okay, presume you are as there's no blood or "body parts" in any of the photos...jeffa wrote:Interesting on the eject issues.
Thats the only thing I noticed before my gun blew apart while shooting some reloads of unknown origin.
Great pity about the FsN a valuable lesson learned the hard way. I'd have a meltdown if that happened to mine.
Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
Where did you get the reloads from?jeffa wrote:Interesting on the eject issues.
Thats the only thing I noticed before my gun blew apart while shooting some reloads of unknown origin.
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Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
Damn how did I miss this thread????????
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition
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Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
It would be great to have those rounds torn down and analyzed.
Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
Spiderco, that makes no sense to me that the chrono results are relatively consistent, with inconsistent recoil. My amateur opinion is that you are pushing a 52 grain bullet pretty hard. I get roughly the same velocity with my reloads of 40 grain vmax bullets out of my pistol. That is a brittle bullet, and that weight is usually relegated to subsonic loads for the pistol. Jetta's comment was subtle, but I heard it loud and clear. I don't want his experience, even once.
You said there were no signs of overpressure, but to me, inconsistent recoil and ejection are signs that I watch for, along with flattened primers. I would back that load down. Just my $.02.
Mike
You said there were no signs of overpressure, but to me, inconsistent recoil and ejection are signs that I watch for, along with flattened primers. I would back that load down. Just my $.02.
Mike
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Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
Maybe your scale is improperly calibrated? I don't have any experience in media so I'm not sure what would happen if some media got stuck in the casing, loaded with powder, seated bullet and ultimately shot it with media in the casing? Any thoughts :ponder:.
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Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
The feel of the recoil will change if the case or the primer give out. You can get to a point where your FPS stabilize and not really change much for about .4gr of an increase. This is due to the case stretching out. Something to think about.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition
Pr. Elite Ammunition
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Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
:agree:NLVMike wrote: You said there were no signs of overpressure, but to me, inconsistent recoil and ejection are signs that I watch for, along with flattened primers. I would back that load down. Just my $.02. Mike
A safe, accurate and consistent loading is much more important than velocity. Good luck.
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Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
FYI this load is above max pressure.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition
Pr. Elite Ammunition
"Engineers, the oompa-loompas of science!"
Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz
Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
GONRA has trouble sorting out exatly WHAT his load was.
Can some one repeat it? THANX!
Can some one repeat it? THANX!
- Rapier1772
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Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
From the OP:
I haven't done 42gr bullets but on my 45gr bullets, 5.5gr of TB was max. There's a point where more powder works against you with speed & consistency, I think you hit it. Recommend that you drop your charge a bit & retestused the following load:
Wolf Small Rifle Primer
Sinterfire 42gr bullet
5.8gr True Blue (weighed every charge)
1.130" Trim Length
1.585" OAL
The first 39 rounds were not crimped. The last 20 all received a light crimp with a Lee FCD. The failures were roughly evenly distributed with both crimped and uncrimped rounds.
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Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
RCBS Lil' Dandy powder thrower and a custom drilled rotor or two are ideal for consistency and avoiding electronic scale/powder thrower issues on these small cases.
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Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
Holy cow! I am glad you are okay after that disaster. That is a reminder of how bad things can get if mistakes are made. Thank you Author for the recommendation. I have been very paranoid and I always double check my weights of my complete reloads so I do not fire a double charged round.
Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
GONRA is Olde and Paranoid - on weighing powder.
Setup my RCBS Chargemaster to tare on my "usual beam balance scale" Powder Pan.
Drop the Powder Charge.
Transfer Powder Pan back to my "usual beam balance scale" to double check weight.
You CANNOT SCREWUP on 5.7X28FN reloading.....
Setup my RCBS Chargemaster to tare on my "usual beam balance scale" Powder Pan.
Drop the Powder Charge.
Transfer Powder Pan back to my "usual beam balance scale" to double check weight.
You CANNOT SCREWUP on 5.7X28FN reloading.....
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Re: Inconsistent recoil, flash, and ejection
I like your style GONRA. I almost feel the need to have another scale to double check the weight. The beam balance would at least be a good accuracy check for my digital scale.
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