5.7 Reload using Blue Dot

[wilhun]

I'm using Hornady dies and have an issue with the die scraping off some of the polymer coating during resizing. I polished the inside of the die with FLIX but it didn't seem to do any good. I loaded up a batch of 10 using 40 gr. V-MAX, 6.0 gr. of Blue Dot and CCI small rifle primers with virtually no crimp. Casings were trimmed to 1.13 and OAL was 1.583-1.585. This was once fired brass and the rounds cycled well even with the slight loss of polymer. I noticed slightly less recoil than the FN factory rounds (SS197SR). I'm going to go to 6.1 to 6.2 gr. on the next loads and probably won't use this brass more than twice.

Cheers,
Vaportrail

[JollyRogers]

WElcome to the forum. This place is a wealth of information and the "tactical Search" up in the top right is very helpful in locating existing threads of interest.

Regarding the Hornady resizing dies scraping the lacquer coating, I had to polish a lot more then I thought I would to get mine to stop doing it. Also, not sure what equipment you are using, but the shell holder can play a part also. See if rotating the shell holder cases the scraping to change. And different case lube may have effect also. http://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic ... 19&t=15752" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I believe you meant 1.30 trim? I trim mine to 1.350" and seat to 1.580" I actually load mine @5.8grains w/ Bluedot and 40 grain VMax and just leave them there, only using for plinking and shooting possums that get in the chicken coupe/hen house (I have 5 this summer).

[shootinbuzzards]

I shoot my FN quite often and readily do mostly reloads. I will share my recipes for as per your request of load data for bluedot. I have tried the minimum to maxload with this powder and came up with what I consider to be the best results for me.

The following loads are for 40-45 grain ( any make or brand of bullet with the exception of 218 Bee ammo) 218 Bee ammo is a short 40 grain HP and has some issue entering the chamber upon successive shots after the first. They will usually hang before getting to chamber. Does not always hang but does happen.

Case trim to length: 1.135
OAL: 40 grain 1.525
45 grain 1.575
Bluedot Min 5.8 gr, max 6.5, suggested load and what I use is 6 gr for all bullet types

newest Powder I have tried and like much better than the blue dot as I can shoot up to 55 gr FMJ quite well is : Accurate 7 using 6.5 gr --- min 6.2, max is like 7 gr but I will verify or you can find the load data in Lyman reload manual

I have just recently obtained some Vihtavuori N340 and will post results at a later time

[panzermk2]

I would not go too 7gr of #7 behind a 55gr bullet.

Not at all!

5.7.9 are all have 10,000psi pressure spikes when you get over 40psi.

You are already over 50,000psi with a 7gr load.

[Rapier1772]

I assume the 40psi is meant to be 40gr but what is the 5.7.9?

[cvande]

I would guess AA #5 , AA #7, and AA #9.

I would read that as all three demonstrate pressure spikes in loadings over 40,000 psi

[Rapier1772]

That makes more sense, thanks

[shootinbuzzards]

I would not go to 7 gr either with AA7. I only included as a reference factor but thanks for helping to stress the point of how far is too far........

[panzermk2]

I would guess AA #5 , AA #7, and AA #9.

I would read that as all three demonstrate pressure spikes in loadings over 40,000 psi

Bingo I assumed any one playing around at this level would know what I meant. Otherwise........well Darwin award winner in the making.

[Fotis]

6gr BD with a 40 gr is my go to load

[Whiterabbit]

Old thread but comes up on google. Do you guys figure blue dot is too slow for a nosler 34 gr bullet? I won’t be getting true blue any time soon, i have blue dot and longshot. And long shot online seems to show high ES? I got tons of bluedot. But want to use 34 grain bullets...

[panzermk2]

Border line, You might not get 100% max velocities but it should work as a plinker

[Whiterabbit]

Can I trust quickloads with a modicum of a grain of salt? When using the right bullet, the 5.7 ctg, and Bluedot powder? you find it to be accurate? All I care about is the combo of planned OAL, the charge weight ladder, and resulting expected pressures. I don't plan on chasing max loads in this cartridge, but I do want to be able to plink at a 10" steel plate at 100 yards with the same ease I can hit it with my 45 cal revolvers. I feel like I shouldn;t need max pressure to achieve that. If I can trust the QL modeled pressure it gives solid confidence in the workup...

[Whiterabbit]

Here is what QL tells me. It passes the "smell test" based on what people are loading above with heavier bullets. That's all I can say. 8.4 looks like a reasonable "stop here" level based on the chart. BUT, given that folks here are using 6.0 for a 40 grain bullet, 34 is a 15% drop but a 15% gain in charge is just 7.0. Obviously it's not a linear relationship here, but in my experience for revolvers for small changes in charge weight it's OK. the gap from 7.0 to 8.4 is the only part giving me pause...

Cartridge : 5.7 x 28 FN
Bullet : File:\224nosler34 empty file
Useable Case Capaci: 10.877 grain H2O = 0.706 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.506 inch = 38.25 mm
Barrel Length : 5.0 inch = 127.0 mm
Powder : Alliant BLUE DOT

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 78 6.40 1577 188 23095 10376 73.2 0.465
-18.0 80 6.56 1616 197 24364 10790 74.5 0.454
-16.0 82 6.72 1656 207 25692 11207 75.7 0.444
-14.0 84 6.88 1695 217 27081 11628 76.9 0.434
-12.0 86 7.04 1735 227 28533 12051 78.1 0.424
-10.0 88 7.20 1775 238 30051 12476 79.3 0.414
-08.0 90 7.36 1815 249 31639 12902 80.5 0.405
-06.0 92 7.52 1855 260 33298 13329 81.6 0.395
-04.0 94 7.68 1896 271 35033 13755 82.7 0.387
-02.0 96 7.84 1936 283 36847 14182 83.8 0.378
+00.0 98 8.00 1977 295 38743 14608 84.8 0.368
+02.0 100 8.16 2017 307 40726 15032 85.9 0.359
+04.0 102 8.32 2058 320 42799 15454 86.9 0.350 ! Near Maximum !
+06.0 104 8.48 2099 333 44968 15873 87.9 0.341 ! Near Maximum !
+08.0 106 8.64 2140 346 47236 16288 88.8 0.332 ! Near Maximum !
+10.0 108 8.80 2181 359 49610 16698 89.7 0.324 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

See below. This data is NG.

[Whiterabbit]

Well this post did not age well!

I loaded 5 loads, 7.2, 7.5, 7.8, 8.1, and 8.4

First, it was too dark out for my chronograph to work. oh well, still wanted to see what I could get. I shot 2x 7.2's and stopped. The first one had a slightly cratered primer. A little more than factory. The second one pierced the primer and left an ejector mark. OK, we're done here. Some range days just don't work out.

Back in the shop, looks like the neck tension on these is huge. Pulled 7 with the impact puller and they left heavy marks on the rim. Need a collet for the RCBS puller. Some shop days don't work out either!

Try try again, 1.5 grains lower this time....

[Rapier1772]

Thank you for fixing it but you realize you could have just deleted the whole post & saved yourself some trouble?

[Whiterabbit]

Thought about it. I'd rather it be up so people can see the risk behind blindly using QL, creating an "inaccurate model", and going for it. Demonstrates the importance of working up.

BTW, of interesting note regarding bluedot specifically, while the pressure was high enough to pierce one primer and leave an ejector mark, the other got some pretty good cratering, the shoulder told a different story. The shoulder was blown out more than SS197, but less than American Eagle. Noticeably less. I'll have to mull over that one for awhile.

[Whiterabbit]

So, better progress this weekend.



You can ignore the wide ES and SD. it is an artifact of the tool/weather. What is critical is the comparison between loads. (if I shot using labradar, everything would tighten right up)

Two interesting conclusions:

1. the best load with bluedot is basically at maximum
2. Knowing that 7.2 grains shows heavy pressure signs, the fact that average velocity gains are linear across charge weight then jump at 7.0 is particularly noteworthy.

Overall, promising and an bummer at the same time. The best load is too close to max and shows an unhealthy bump in velocity. I don't like it. I'm thinking maybe try the same ladder but at a longer OAL and see if maybe the linear trend can be extended (and push max charge higher, where I don't want to go anyways). Another suggestion was to HBn coat the bullets (I have the kit for rifle bullets) but that just seems crazy to me. But is a typical solution for long range shooters....

Also noteworthy is that initial accuracy indications is that ALL the loads were more accurate than both SS197 and American Eagle, though best accuracy was obviously 7.0 gr, with 6.7 close behind.

Dunno if you guys have any thoughts besides push OAL longer. It'll make the cartridge look "a little" silly but not too bad. Just a little bit more drive band exposed than you normally see. The OAL above is pretty short due to the tiny nature of the bullet, maybe 15% of the drive band under the ogive is showing.

Success would be measured in achieving the same reduction in SD/ES/group while eliminating the sharp increase in velocity.

[Whiterabbit]

Another interesting conclusion is that SS197 is faster than AE despite the shoulder getting blown out on AE, much worse than SS197. Makes me wonder what class of powder is used for each, what is our closest equivalent.

[panzermk2]

Another interesting conclusion is that SS197 is faster than AE despite the shoulder getting blown out on AE, much worse than SS197. Makes me wonder what class of powder is used for each, what is our closest equivalent.

They use a hodge podge of powders.

[panzermk2]

What you are running into is that powders behave differently at the limits of the parameters they where designed to work in.

Your powder is behaving normally and somewhat predictably when you are in the 40k and below pressures.
Once you exceed 40k and get into the region of 45k powders behave completely differently.

[Whiterabbit]

Better results now:



I pushed OAL longer. No pressure signs anywhere. I suspect 6.9 is a very comfortable margin from max. ctg looks a little goofy because lots of bearing surface is exposed, but the neck tension is huge. I made a dummy load and chambered/extracted it a bunch of times with no meaningful change to OAL. (the OAL drop per chambering is measured in low tenths)

The debate now is 6.9 vs 6.3. 6.9 was favorable for on-target precision, but it is hard to ignore an SD of 14 for 6.3, even when using instrumentation that injects a lot of inherent measurement variability (suggesting the real SD is lower, even substantially lower). Precision was not THAT far behind the 6.9, but definitely measurably worse. But if I am being honest, the worse grouping could be the shooter, not the load. (6.6 shot a big group, as did 6.0, so they are both out)

[JHeckert1974]

I shoot my FN quite often and readily do mostly reloads. I will share my recipes for as per your request of load data for bluedot. I have tried the minimum to maxload with this powder and came up with what I consider to be the best results for me.

The following loads are for 40-45 grain ( any make or brand of bullet with the exception of 218 Bee ammo) 218 Bee ammo is a short 40 grain HP and has some issue entering the chamber upon successive shots after the first. They will usually hang before getting to chamber. Does not always hang but does happen.

Case trim to length: 1.135
OAL: 40 grain 1.525
45 grain 1.575
Bluedot Min 5.8 gr, max 6.5, suggested load and what I use is 6 gr for all bullet types

newest Powder I have tried and like much better than the blue dot as I can shoot up to 55 gr FMJ quite well is : Accurate 7 using 6.5 gr --- min 6.2, max is like 7 gr but I will verify or you can find the load data in Lyman reload manual

I have just recently obtained some Vihtavuori N340 and will post results at a later time

Do you have a good recipe to start off with for 35 gr vmax with blue dot powder?

[Whiterabbit]

data shown in the chart there is bluedot and a 34 gr bullet.

[JHeckert1974]

Thank you, I will start around the 6.3 range. The factory load i was shooting is AE and I pulled one of the bullets out and measured it, it is .025" longer than the 35 grain VMAX. So I was just going to subtract my measure OAL by .025" to seat the 35 gr VMAX. This will give me same seat depth and same volume in the shell as factory.

[Whiterabbit]

A warning reminder:

If you’re close to or over 7.0 AND run a short OAL, you will see heavy pressure signs.

I saw 0 pressure signs for 6.9 data above because I extended OAL. 6.9 had the tightest group on target. I consider it a max load for my bullet choice. Dropping OAL will likely push it over the top, just.