5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Reloading info for the 5.7x28mm

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Grantness
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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by Grantness » 19 Jun 2011, 16:50

I've never heard of anyone using a Small Rifle Magnum in a PS90 successfully w/ max loads.... Not saying its impossible, just prob inadvisable w/ standard loads.

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iFire
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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by iFire » 19 Jun 2011, 17:22

Grantness wrote:I've never heard of anyone using a Small Rifle Magnum in a PS90 successfully w/ max loads....
I haven't tried them yet but I will here at some point - looks like I'll be the first :D They would work well with the slower powders like Enforcer of AA#9...

There are just soo many possibilities that its hard to try everything :laugh:

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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by Grantness » 19 Jun 2011, 18:01

BE CAREFUL

VeTTeMaNC486
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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by VeTTeMaNC486 » 19 Jun 2011, 21:57

iFire wrote:
VeTTeMaNC486 wrote:Oh how bad I want a FsN to play with you guys. :(
Will probably be my first gift to myself when I graduate.
At least you have the PS90. (right?)

While the FsN is really fun to play with, the PS90 is by far and away my favorite gun/design :cool:

I have some top shelf AR's that often sit at home when I head to the range - While the AR's are 'better' in most aspects, that are not nearly as fun to play with :D
Yes, I know. I am fortunate to have it and am not being ungreatful. I honestly knew very little about the round and platform when I purchased it. I didn't really have much desire for a FsN until I started reloading and read some of the speed you guys are getting out of them. 2000+fps out of a pistol is smoking :thumb: .

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iFire
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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by iFire » 20 Jun 2011, 09:02

Turning back to random things: :laugh:

-----

Nosler 35gr Lead Free:

OAL: .736"
BRSF: ~ .320"

Hornady 35gr NTX:

OAL: .730"
BRSF: ~ .225"

Hornady 40gr Vmax:

OAL: .691"
BRSF: ~ .178"

SS195 28gr:

OAL: .814"
BRSF: ~ .325"

Barnes 45gr BS*:

OAL: .760"
BRSF: ~ .330" minus the 2 bands of .060" leaves approx .210" -

*This bullet is made from a different material, so its bound to work differently...

-------

BRSF = Bearing Surface - the best estimates i can make...

As you can see from the above the Nosler 35gr has a substantially larger bearing surface... From the Pictures I have seen it looks like the 35gr Hornady NTX will be much closer to the 40gr Vmax dimensions than the 35gr NLF dimensions.

What that means is yet to be determined in perfomance - It could be very different in the FsN and PS90...

I will post the exact measurements when i get the NTX's in hand :thumb:
Last edited by iFire on 23 Jun 2011, 11:14, edited 3 times in total.

VeTTeMaNC486
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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by VeTTeMaNC486 » 20 Jun 2011, 10:45

That is a biggg 35gr bullet. I wonder how it performs in tissue?

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iFire
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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by iFire » 20 Jun 2011, 15:01

VeTTeMaNC486 wrote:That is a biggg 35gr bullet. I wonder how it performs in tissue?
There's definitely a big bearing surface difference between the 35 gr NLF and 40 gr Vmax - thats for sure.

It would be interesting to put some of the new bullets like the 35 NLF and NTX up against say the 40 Vmax in a few different types of expansion and penetration tests in various media...

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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by VeTTeMaNC486 » 20 Jun 2011, 15:51

I'm curious, do you happen to have those measurements of the ss195 bullet?

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iFire
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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by iFire » 20 Jun 2011, 16:42

VeTTeMaNC486 wrote:I'm curious, do you happen to have those measurements of the ss195 bullet?
Added the info to the original Bullet comparison post above :thumb:

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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by ddouglas » 20 Jun 2011, 20:33

iFire...how is 'bearing surface' defined and how are you measuring it?

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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by iFire » 20 Jun 2011, 21:56

Alright - I whipped up a few prototype bullets to help explain bearing surface:

Image

Bearing Surface is shown in Black. 'Bearing Surface' could be defined as any part of the bullet that will contact the rifling.

Example (1) looks similar to a T6. It has the least amount of surface that will come into contact with the rifling.

Example (2) has one of the grooves removed. Because of this, it has more surface area that will touch the rifling.

Example (3) has lots of surface that will come into contact with the rifling. It has the most bearing surface of the three.

---

The best way to measure bearing surface is to take a set of calipers and set it to .222 (for a .224 bullet)

Slide the caliper (pre-set at .222) down the bullet from the tip end until it stops. Mark this point. Measure from the back of the bullet (or, if the bullet has a boat tail, from the joint of the boat tail and main body) to the mark you made in the front. This measurement will be the amount of surface that is in contact with the rifling - aka bearing surface. If the bullet has grooves cut in, subtract the groove distance(s) from your measurement, as this area will not touch the rifling...

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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by ddouglas » 21 Jun 2011, 05:38

Thanks. So your 'bearing surface' is a length measurement, not an area measurement. Since the bullet contacts the rifling over it's full 'bearing length', wouldn't the area be a better estimate of friction-related things? And since--using a Vmax, for example--it appears that the radius of the bullet is continually changing over the length, the "depth" of the engagement with the rifling (and thus the amount of friction) changes, doesn't that have an effect also?

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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by VeTTeMaNC486 » 21 Jun 2011, 05:44

His measurement is just an approximation, hence the ~ infront of the measurement. It is just to give us a reference to compare different bullets. I guess you could be all scientific about it, but there isn't really much of a point, considering the data is just being used to compare different bullets.

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iFire
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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by iFire » 21 Jun 2011, 06:24

ddouglas wrote:Thanks. So your 'bearing surface' is a length measurement, not an area measurement. Since the bullet contacts the rifling over it's full 'bearing length', wouldn't the area be a better estimate of friction-related things?

Well, technically since the Bearing Surface length measurement is for equal bullets of .224 diameter, then the length measurement is in direct proportion to the surface area in contact with the rifling...
ddouglas wrote:And since--using a Vmax, for example--it appears that the radius of the bullet is continually changing over the length, the "depth" of the engagement with the rifling (and thus the amount of friction) changes, doesn't that have an effect also?
I see what your saying about the radius/diameter changing - but in reality there is only a certain diameter of the bullet that will contact the rifling - the exact amount depends on the gun and the depth of the rifling. Often times in a .224 gun the grooves will run approx - .0025" I believe. That means that any portion of the bullet greater than .219" in diameter will touch the rifling - anything smaller than .219" will not touch the rifling. So, that means that any part of the bullet greater than .219" is consider the Bearing Surface of the bullet.

Also the material and hardness of the bullet play a role in friction too - the cuts seen in bullets like EA's T6 and Barnes 45gr BS not only relieve pressure by elimination bearing surface, but they also provide a place for the metal of the bullet to 'flow into' as it is being compressed by the barrel's rifling - further eliminating friction that would have been in the form of compressed resistance.

No need to get too complicated though :laugh: The whole reason behind the bearing surface topic is generally to get an idea of what to expect in terms of comparisson between different bullets.

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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by iFire » 21 Jun 2011, 09:10

A few more random prototype designs - now if I could only get to actually making some of these... That would be fun

Image

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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by VeTTeMaNC486 » 21 Jun 2011, 09:20

iFire wrote:A few more random prototype designs - now if I could only get to actually making some of these... That would be fun

Image
Projected weights? I'm assuming <40grs?

They look alot like EA's tridents, wouldn't it be easier to just purchase some for loading?

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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by iFire » 21 Jun 2011, 09:37

VeTTeMaNC486 wrote:
They look alot like EA's tridents, wouldn't it be easier to just purchase some for loading?
It would be fun to make them on a mini-lathe hooked into the computer or something like that for experimenting. And yes it would be way easier to get some similar bullets from EA or Barnes... I just thought it would be fun to make some as well one day for a winter time project or something like that...

The top ones look like EA trident's and the bottom look like the Barnes BS's - It would be tough to radically deviate from either of the two designs - obviuosly there is only so much that can be done. It would just be neat to fire up a lathe and turn out some bullets for testing. Load them up and see how they perform. Then wash, rinse and repeat :D

Maybe even make some turned wadcutters... Who knows :p

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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by Grantness » 21 Jun 2011, 10:25

Be fun to experiment with different metal too... (so long as they are legal).

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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by panzermk2 » 21 Jun 2011, 13:02

You do realize we have made all of those?


Image

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iFire
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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions

Post by iFire » 21 Jun 2011, 14:37

panzermk2 wrote:You do realize we have made all of those?
Well, I knew you made the 28gr for the T6... So yeah, I knew you made one like the top illustration - but I didnt know that you had so many different weights: 28, 30, 32, 36?

I had done some prototype bullets in illustrator a long time ago so i thought I would clean them up and post it just for fun...

Anyway I assume the 28 gr was the best and thats why you went with it?
Grantness wrote:Be fun to experiment with different metal too... (so long as they are legal).
Yeah it would be fun to play with different metals too (if their indeed Legit) - It would be a fun project for sure :thumb:

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