Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 06 Jul 2011, 08:49
40gr TSX would be cool... Or just a copy or something similar to the ~27gr ss195/198 bullet.
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5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
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Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 06 Jul 2011, 19:18
or maybe something even lighter like a <25gr
What I've learned after just finishing up 1 pound of powder
Posted: 09 Jul 2011, 13:16
Gun is an AR57 with the standard 16" barrel. The powder is Blue Dot. Primers have mainly been CCI small rifle. Bullets have been 35, 40. and most recently, 52 gr SP Dogtowns from Midway. This is by no means a step-by-step guide. This is just what I've learned and done while reloading the round.
1. With an average charge of ~6 grains, I figure I've loaded up over a thousand rounds at this point. All of my brass has come from buying factory SS197 ammo. So far with some brass being reloaded at the 5X point, I have had no case problems.
I have noticed that I have a few loose primer pockets so I'll need to keep an eye on that.
2. My set-up is the cheapest Lee press and I use RCBS dies. I have yet to trim any case. I must say that the Lee quick-change collar thing is pretty good. Once you get it where you want it, you lock it down and the next time out just drop the whole shebang into the press. Fast.
3. When I first started the reloading and chrony'ing the loads it really didn't seem to make a lot of difference accuracy-wise how miuch powder I was using as long as the load was doing over ~2100 fps. All of these loads popped everything into a less than 1" hole at 50 yards. I chrony'd the SS197 factory 40 grain load right at this number.
4. I bought the 52 grain Dogtowns because they were really inexpensive and, according to the ballistics calculators, should have the perfect length for the 8.5 twist AR57 barrel. I loaded a few of these with 6 grains of blue Dot and my son shot a 0.8" 5 shot group at 100 yards. The gun has a bipod but no rear rest was used. This seems plenty good to me. I'll take the chrony next time out and post the results for this load. There was no indication of pressure or any other problems with this load. These are also flat-base bullets and that may or may not have anything to do with anything.
5. I've been cleaning the brass with whatever dishwashing detergent is in the house at the time. I soak for maybe 15 minutes then swirl then cases around by hand for maybe 10 minutes and let them dry overnite. I then clean the primer pocket and start loading. I have never crimped any load and have never had a failure to feed or a failure to cycle because of a pulled bullet with this gun.
6. I have two magazines for the gun. One is an ATI and it simply does not work. Now, this magazine is over two years old so maybe a newer one is OK. I also have a mag I bought directly from AR57 and it works flawlessly. As long as I load to an OAL of 1.57" to 1.59", everything feeds and cycles well. I have never applied any kind of a finish to the cases. When I was trying to load the 35 gr Hornady V-max's, they were just too short to work well. AT least in my gun, if the load length is too short the rounds jam up trying to make the turn in the magazine. These longer, lead-free 35 grain jobs look very interesting.
7. I have a load of brass that I neck/shoulder annealed at the 5x reload point. I'm keeping track of this brass in comparison to the 5x un-annealed stuff and it will be interesting to see if the annealing helps case life. Since it seems like everybody who shoots this caliber sees the dented cases and extreme shoulder movement (I'm no different), softening up that area seemed like a good idea.
8. I love shooting this gun!! It is accurate, soft-recoiling, and never fails to draw a crowd at the range. I'll post the chrony results with the 52 grain Dogtowns. I calculated that I was loading these for right around 13 cents a shot. Using the Hornady's and the Sierra's had the cost above this.
Again, this isn't being presented as some end-all and be-all loading guide, Since the header spells out the random reloading nature of things, this seemed like the best place to post this what I've seen. Maybe it will help somebody starting out.
Tony S.
1. With an average charge of ~6 grains, I figure I've loaded up over a thousand rounds at this point. All of my brass has come from buying factory SS197 ammo. So far with some brass being reloaded at the 5X point, I have had no case problems.
I have noticed that I have a few loose primer pockets so I'll need to keep an eye on that.
2. My set-up is the cheapest Lee press and I use RCBS dies. I have yet to trim any case. I must say that the Lee quick-change collar thing is pretty good. Once you get it where you want it, you lock it down and the next time out just drop the whole shebang into the press. Fast.
3. When I first started the reloading and chrony'ing the loads it really didn't seem to make a lot of difference accuracy-wise how miuch powder I was using as long as the load was doing over ~2100 fps. All of these loads popped everything into a less than 1" hole at 50 yards. I chrony'd the SS197 factory 40 grain load right at this number.
4. I bought the 52 grain Dogtowns because they were really inexpensive and, according to the ballistics calculators, should have the perfect length for the 8.5 twist AR57 barrel. I loaded a few of these with 6 grains of blue Dot and my son shot a 0.8" 5 shot group at 100 yards. The gun has a bipod but no rear rest was used. This seems plenty good to me. I'll take the chrony next time out and post the results for this load. There was no indication of pressure or any other problems with this load. These are also flat-base bullets and that may or may not have anything to do with anything.
5. I've been cleaning the brass with whatever dishwashing detergent is in the house at the time. I soak for maybe 15 minutes then swirl then cases around by hand for maybe 10 minutes and let them dry overnite. I then clean the primer pocket and start loading. I have never crimped any load and have never had a failure to feed or a failure to cycle because of a pulled bullet with this gun.
6. I have two magazines for the gun. One is an ATI and it simply does not work. Now, this magazine is over two years old so maybe a newer one is OK. I also have a mag I bought directly from AR57 and it works flawlessly. As long as I load to an OAL of 1.57" to 1.59", everything feeds and cycles well. I have never applied any kind of a finish to the cases. When I was trying to load the 35 gr Hornady V-max's, they were just too short to work well. AT least in my gun, if the load length is too short the rounds jam up trying to make the turn in the magazine. These longer, lead-free 35 grain jobs look very interesting.
7. I have a load of brass that I neck/shoulder annealed at the 5x reload point. I'm keeping track of this brass in comparison to the 5x un-annealed stuff and it will be interesting to see if the annealing helps case life. Since it seems like everybody who shoots this caliber sees the dented cases and extreme shoulder movement (I'm no different), softening up that area seemed like a good idea.
8. I love shooting this gun!! It is accurate, soft-recoiling, and never fails to draw a crowd at the range. I'll post the chrony results with the 52 grain Dogtowns. I calculated that I was loading these for right around 13 cents a shot. Using the Hornady's and the Sierra's had the cost above this.
Again, this isn't being presented as some end-all and be-all loading guide, Since the header spells out the random reloading nature of things, this seemed like the best place to post this what I've seen. Maybe it will help somebody starting out.
Tony S.
Re: What I've learned after just finishing up 1 pound of pow
Posted: 09 Jul 2011, 22:32
Awesome. I'd like to know how fast those 52grs are going. I was having mag pop problems with 6gr of blue dot and 55gr fmjs. IIRC I was getting close to 2k fps. If you are looking for a cheap way to reload, I would recommend looking into buying some pulled ss197 40gr vmax from EA. 15 bucks for 250 bullets! When I ordered my mag springs I just threw in 1k because they were so cheap. :thumb:Tony S wrote:Gun is an AR57 with the standard 16" barrel. The powder is Blue Dot. Primers have mainly been CCI small rifle. Bullets have been 35, 40. and most recently, 52 gr SP Dogtowns from Midway. This is by no means a step-by-step guide. This is just what I've learned and done while reloading the round.
1. With an average charge of ~6 grains, I figure I've loaded up over a thousand rounds at this point. All of my brass has come from buying factory SS197 ammo. So far with some brass being reloaded at the 5X point, I have had no case problems.
I have noticed that I have a few loose primer pockets so I'll need to keep an eye on that.
2. My set-up is the cheapest Lee press and I use RCBS dies. I have yet to trim any case. I must say that the Lee quick-change collar thing is pretty good. Once you get it where you want it, you lock it down and the next time out just drop the whole shebang into the press. Fast.
3. When I first started the reloading and chrony'ing the loads it really didn't seem to make a lot of difference accuracy-wise how miuch powder I was using as long as the load was doing over ~2100 fps. All of these loads popped everything into a less than 1" hole at 50 yards. I chrony'd the SS197 factory 40 grain load right at this number.
4. I bought the 52 grain Dogtowns because they were really inexpensive and, according to the ballistics calculators, should have the perfect length for the 8.5 twist AR57 barrel. I loaded a few of these with 6 grains of blue Dot and my son shot a 0.8" 5 shot group at 100 yards. The gun has a bipod but no rear rest was used. This seems plenty good to me. I'll take the chrony next time out and post the results for this load. There was no indication of pressure or any other problems with this load. These are also flat-base bullets and that may or may not have anything to do with anything.
5. I've been cleaning the brass with whatever dishwashing detergent is in the house at the time. I soak for maybe 15 minutes then swirl then cases around by hand for maybe 10 minutes and let them dry overnite. I then clean the primer pocket and start loading. I have never crimped any load and have never had a failure to feed or a failure to cycle because of a pulled bullet with this gun.
6. I have two magazines for the gun. One is an ATI and it simply does not work. Now, this magazine is over two years old so maybe a newer one is OK. I also have a mag I bought directly from AR57 and it works flawlessly. As long as I load to an OAL of 1.57" to 1.59", everything feeds and cycles well. I have never applied any kind of a finish to the cases. When I was trying to load the 35 gr Hornady V-max's, they were just too short to work well. AT least in my gun, if the load length is too short the rounds jam up trying to make the turn in the magazine. These longer, lead-free 35 grain jobs look very interesting.
7. I have a load of brass that I neck/shoulder annealed at the 5x reload point. I'm keeping track of this brass in comparison to the 5x un-annealed stuff and it will be interesting to see if the annealing helps case life. Since it seems like everybody who shoots this caliber sees the dented cases and extreme shoulder movement (I'm no different), softening up that area seemed like a good idea.
8. I love shooting this gun!! It is accurate, soft-recoiling, and never fails to draw a crowd at the range. I'll post the chrony results with the 52 grain Dogtowns. I calculated that I was loading these for right around 13 cents a shot. Using the Hornady's and the Sierra's had the cost above this.
Again, this isn't being presented as some end-all and be-all loading guide, Since the header spells out the random reloading nature of things, this seemed like the best place to post this what I've seen. Maybe it will help somebody starting out.
Tony S.
On a different note, has anyone with an AR57, that reloads or shoots EA, had issues with the magazine popping with full power loads?
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 13 Jul 2011, 13:02
Just checked out the latest article of Handloader magazine and they had a nice article on all the Accurate powders. What vexes me is they never even mention Acc#7, #5, or even #9's possible use in 5.7x28 despite the fact that Accurate/WesternPowders has published loads as well as the Lyman 49th manual... He went to great lengths describing how versatile the pistol and even shotgun powders were, but apparently either didn't do his research or felt it wasn't worth mentioning.
There was also an additional article on No. 9 specifically that was somewhat interesting.... describing how and when they switched over to the new manufacturer in FL. Unfortunately, the article was a bit iffy on whether he actually received the NEW No. 9 because there was a label on the canister marked 'made in Belgium'. Western Powders assured him that those were surplus labels and he had indeed received the newer powder. He noted no differences between the look/smell & velocities between old and (ostensibly) new No. 9. I dunno....seems strange to me, but this guy is well respected and I have trouble believing Western Powders would lie to a man like that.
There was also an additional article on No. 9 specifically that was somewhat interesting.... describing how and when they switched over to the new manufacturer in FL. Unfortunately, the article was a bit iffy on whether he actually received the NEW No. 9 because there was a label on the canister marked 'made in Belgium'. Western Powders assured him that those were surplus labels and he had indeed received the newer powder. He noted no differences between the look/smell & velocities between old and (ostensibly) new No. 9. I dunno....seems strange to me, but this guy is well respected and I have trouble believing Western Powders would lie to a man like that.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 13 Jul 2011, 14:53
:ponder:Grantness wrote:There was also an additional article on No. 9 specifically that was somewhat interesting.... describing how and when they switched over to the new manufacturer in FL. Unfortunately, the article was a bit iffy on whether he actually received the NEW No. 9 because there was a label on the canister marked 'made in Belgium'. Western Powders assured him that those were surplus labels and he had indeed received the newer powder. He noted no differences between the look/smell & velocities between old and (ostensibly) new No. 9. I dunno....seems strange to me, but this guy is well respected and I have trouble believing Western Powders would lie to a man like that.
The difference between old #9 and new #9 might not be that large when used in the 5.7x28 - SInce #9 is slow to begin with (in relation to this caliber) there might not be large differences seen when testing, especially in the pistol. However, the difference in the A#7 change I recorded was around 100 fps with equal charge and bullets - and the difference is noticeable in the visible 'look' of the powders.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 13 Jul 2011, 15:44
Yep, that's about the difference i've seen between their load data and what my new No. 7 gets.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 20 Jul 2011, 02:13
iFire, couple o questions for ya here;
have you tried VV 3N38 for the FsN? I was able to get to 7.8 grains max for the pistol. At 8.0 I had a case rupture and decided that was far enough lol With the PS90, pretty much any charge using 3N38 will pop the mag, so it's out for me. Shame, it's a fast powder.
What are the chances of making a list of powders that are unsuitable and/or dangerous so no one unknowingly tries them?
As for blending powders... I have reloaded for over 30 years. I read up on it some, but just never had the balls to even considder doing it lol With your background and education, it's not so bad, but still, I'll give ya the brass balls award here lol
have you tried VV 3N38 for the FsN? I was able to get to 7.8 grains max for the pistol. At 8.0 I had a case rupture and decided that was far enough lol With the PS90, pretty much any charge using 3N38 will pop the mag, so it's out for me. Shame, it's a fast powder.
What are the chances of making a list of powders that are unsuitable and/or dangerous so no one unknowingly tries them?
As for blending powders... I have reloaded for over 30 years. I read up on it some, but just never had the balls to even considder doing it lol With your background and education, it's not so bad, but still, I'll give ya the brass balls award here lol
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 20 Jul 2011, 07:57
I have been following the 5.7 hand loading threads for a couple of years now. I've been hand loading other calibers for a bit longer than I have the 5.7. It is of interest to me to know "why" the 5.7 round is continually pushed to find a maximum load--meaning one that gives maximum speed but not yet damaging the case or popping a primer. None of the other hand loading forums that I read--those dealing with everything from .380 Auto to 45-70 black powder seem fixated on achieving "the max". The emphasis in the other forums is to find the most accurate load, not the fastest speed. New bullets and new powders are evaluated to find the most accurate combination in the owner's firearms. Depending on the applicability (hunting, target, long-distance target, etc.) bullets are also evaluated their penetration and effectiveness. But not singularly focussed on speed for speed's sake. So what is there in the minds of the 5.7 guys (and gals) that cause the focus to be single-minded on speed? Surely finding a round that is the "fastest", while it might seem "good" for a few dozen shots, cannot be beneficial to the long-term mechanical health of the firearm. The abuse absorbed by the bolt, action, barrel, etc. with these rounds will eventually take its toll on the longevity of the gun. And it is of little value if the bullet doesn't go where it's aimed. Yes? No?
To illustrate a rational approach towards loading the 5.7, EA's emphasis seems to be geared to a round that meets a specific need or requirement. That's a good thing. EA doesn't fixate on speed. But most of what I read here is just more bang. Isn't the quest for "more speed" in the absence of more meaningful goals misplaced?
Shouldn't the focus be on accuracy (and some measured effectiveness)--which is what most of us care about for most situations?
To illustrate a rational approach towards loading the 5.7, EA's emphasis seems to be geared to a round that meets a specific need or requirement. That's a good thing. EA doesn't fixate on speed. But most of what I read here is just more bang. Isn't the quest for "more speed" in the absence of more meaningful goals misplaced?
Shouldn't the focus be on accuracy (and some measured effectiveness)--which is what most of us care about for most situations?
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 20 Jul 2011, 08:56
I know the answer to this. Basically 2 reasons
1) Most guys get into the 5.7x28 because they are 10mm fans. That is how I got into it in a round about way through another PDW round created about the same time as the 5.7. It was the BOZ. 10mm necked down to .223. It never went anywhere other then custom handguns it does not exist really.
10mm= Speed Freaks
This is why so many forum members have 10mm handguns also.
2) A very large percentage of 5.7 owners are engineers of some sort, heck we even have a few rocket scientists as members. Engineers like to explore and push limits of any given design even a light switch they just can't keep from fiddling with. Basically engineers love to re-engineer.
1) Most guys get into the 5.7x28 because they are 10mm fans. That is how I got into it in a round about way through another PDW round created about the same time as the 5.7. It was the BOZ. 10mm necked down to .223. It never went anywhere other then custom handguns it does not exist really.
10mm= Speed Freaks
This is why so many forum members have 10mm handguns also.
2) A very large percentage of 5.7 owners are engineers of some sort, heck we even have a few rocket scientists as members. Engineers like to explore and push limits of any given design even a light switch they just can't keep from fiddling with. Basically engineers love to re-engineer.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 20 Jul 2011, 13:34
The above + a few other things...
I really enjoy the PS90 platform - but it only comes in one caliber 5.7x28... If it came in other calibers one could simply move up to the largest caliber they wanted/needed ( ie AR's come in a whole bunch of calibers so you can pick the size that is right for your particular application)
Being stuck with the 5.7x28 in the PS90, it becomes the desire of many to push it to see just what it can do and the variety of applications it can be used for. For instance, I personally wouldnt want to use ss197 for deer, even though it would technically work with the proper shot placement. However, Max Hand Loads or EA's protector for instance have a substantially higher KE potential (in some cases almost 40-50% more) which makes it MUCH better (even though it may not be 'ideal')...
I really enjoy the PS90 platform - but it only comes in one caliber 5.7x28... If it came in other calibers one could simply move up to the largest caliber they wanted/needed ( ie AR's come in a whole bunch of calibers so you can pick the size that is right for your particular application)
Being stuck with the 5.7x28 in the PS90, it becomes the desire of many to push it to see just what it can do and the variety of applications it can be used for. For instance, I personally wouldnt want to use ss197 for deer, even though it would technically work with the proper shot placement. However, Max Hand Loads or EA's protector for instance have a substantially higher KE potential (in some cases almost 40-50% more) which makes it MUCH better (even though it may not be 'ideal')...
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 20 Jul 2011, 13:52
Yeah I could work on something like a 'bad" powder list - I would have to put some thought into what that would look like since some powders that are 'bad' for full power loads actually work well with subsonics...ehryk wrote:iFire, couple o questions for ya here;
What are the chances of making a list of powders that are unsuitable and/or dangerous so no one unknowingly tries them?
As for the mixing powders - I wont share data but yeah it can work really well, I have developed some really good loads, both in Speed AND in Low Standard Deviations. But it is definitely tricky and a recipe for disaster if done improperly - Thanks for the 'Brass Balls' award though :laugh:
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 30 Jul 2011, 14:01
Has anyone tried titegroup to reload with I am reloading 40 gr nosler ct and have been using accurate 5 it has been doing well but don't like it for my other weapons and want to try to stick with hogdon powder because it is easy to get in my area. I also use clays for some of my bullets but figured it is not the best for the 5.7 I have a ps90 so any help or input appreciated.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 02 Aug 2011, 19:47
Finally starting to put my shopping list together to start reloading. This could get interesting...
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 03 Aug 2011, 22:15
I do not have any experience with Acc #5; but if you want to use hodgdon powder, I would recommend getting some HS6. If you load 9mm its a good powder for it as well. I use it in 9mm, .40sw, 5.7, and .45 (not ideal for 45 but it is what I have.).kos1966 wrote:Has anyone tried titegroup to reload with I am reloading 40 gr nosler ct and have been using accurate 5 it has been doing well but don't like it for my other weapons and want to try to stick with hogdon powder because it is easy to get in my area. I also use clays for some of my bullets but figured it is not the best for the 5.7 I have a ps90 so any help or input appreciated.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 04 Aug 2011, 19:05
HS6 works very well, and is a very good functioning crossover powder between the FsN and PS90. Try 6.2 grs with your 40 grain bullets. 6.2 grains should give you around ~ 1800 fps from the FsN and ~ 2200 from the PS90.kos1966 wrote:Has anyone tried titegroup to reload with I am reloading 40 gr nosler ct and have been using accurate 5 it has been doing well but don't like it for my other weapons and want to try to stick with hogdon powder because it is easy to get in my area. I also use clays for some of my bullets but figured it is not the best for the 5.7 I have a ps90 so any help or input appreciated.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 07 Aug 2011, 18:32
Ok first stupid reloading question. I have spent the last hour googling and cant fine the answer to this. So you have brass from say SS197. It was obviously the right length before you shot it. So why does the brass OAL need to be resized or messed with at all AFTER it has been shot? Sorry for the dumb question but every website I have read about re sizing brass all talks about brass for one size of ammunition being re sized for a different caliber.
One other thing. Is there any reason to NOT clean your brass if you dont have intentions of loading it for say 3-6 months? Im steady building my loading bench and dont plan on having everything till the end of the year. Figured I would get my brass all cleaned while im buying everything I need. Will be doing 5.7 and 9mm to start off. I will be cleaning and polishing the 9mm and just cleaning the 5.7.
Bare with me guys. Im reading as much as I can get my hands on...
One other thing. Is there any reason to NOT clean your brass if you dont have intentions of loading it for say 3-6 months? Im steady building my loading bench and dont plan on having everything till the end of the year. Figured I would get my brass all cleaned while im buying everything I need. Will be doing 5.7 and 9mm to start off. I will be cleaning and polishing the 9mm and just cleaning the 5.7.
Bare with me guys. Im reading as much as I can get my hands on...
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 07 Aug 2011, 19:18
During the extraction process after a round has been fired, the brass softens and expands to the chamber dimensions. Due to friction, brass sticks to the chamber and when pulled out it stretches ever so slightly. You can see the result of this by just looking at the shoulder of a fired round compared to an unfired round, the neck is pushed forward during the extraction.
As for cleaning, doesn't really matter as long as it is cleaned prior to reloading it. Clean brass is happy brass.
As for cleaning, doesn't really matter as long as it is cleaned prior to reloading it. Clean brass is happy brass.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 07 Aug 2011, 19:21
Thanks man. I shell start cleaning my brass!
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 07 Aug 2011, 20:10
Welcome.MikeSantor wrote:Thanks man. I shell start cleaning my brass!
I'm cleaning some .308WIN brass right now in my ultrasonic cleaner. Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 07 Aug 2011, 21:20
What are you using in it? I am using 1:1 ratio water/vinegar and I am not entirely pleased with the results. (they are clean but are not very shiny after a day or two.) They stay decently shiny if I let the dry on their own, but usually i toss them in the even for a bit because I want to load them not wait on them to dry.f3rr37 wrote:Welcome.MikeSantor wrote:Thanks man. I shell start cleaning my brass!
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 09 Aug 2011, 19:03
Dumb Question #2 (you guys will get sick of me soon enough)
I can not seem to find the answer too this either. Do you ALWAYS have to trim, chamfer, and deburr brass? Im assuming the answer is yes. If the case stretches during ejection im assuming they all do this. So basically you would not sit and check the length of each brass before you load it. You just run all of them through the trimmer?
So if im right thus fur, is there any real scientific way of trimming this in regards to how much you are taking off? What I mean by this is I have seen a bunch of videos of people trimming with the TrimPro and drill and they are not measuring anything. They hit it with the drill for a second and go on to the next one. Again, is this just going under the assumption that they all need just a hair taken off so you zip it with the trimmer for a second and its good to go?
I can not seem to find the answer too this either. Do you ALWAYS have to trim, chamfer, and deburr brass? Im assuming the answer is yes. If the case stretches during ejection im assuming they all do this. So basically you would not sit and check the length of each brass before you load it. You just run all of them through the trimmer?
So if im right thus fur, is there any real scientific way of trimming this in regards to how much you are taking off? What I mean by this is I have seen a bunch of videos of people trimming with the TrimPro and drill and they are not measuring anything. They hit it with the drill for a second and go on to the next one. Again, is this just going under the assumption that they all need just a hair taken off so you zip it with the trimmer for a second and its good to go?
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 09 Aug 2011, 19:48
For consistency's sake you should always trim however, if you're just loading plinkers where you are not worried about the data and not really worried about accuracy (it will still be close) then there is a little leeway as long as it fully chambers the round. Anytime you trim, you need to chamfer & deburr.
Case trimmers have stop rings on them. On your first shell, measure it & run the trimmer up to the shell & set the ring (this is all in the trimmer's owner's manual), back off the ring a tad, lock it again & trim a bit. Repeat until you reach the correct length. Once there, the stop ring will make it so you trim to the same length on subsequent shells. It shouldn't move but you might wanna still check them occasionally
Its not that they are just hitting it for a second & that is "magically" the right length. They are trimming down to the length set on the stop ring.
Case trimmers have stop rings on them. On your first shell, measure it & run the trimmer up to the shell & set the ring (this is all in the trimmer's owner's manual), back off the ring a tad, lock it again & trim a bit. Repeat until you reach the correct length. Once there, the stop ring will make it so you trim to the same length on subsequent shells. It shouldn't move but you might wanna still check them occasionally
Its not that they are just hitting it for a second & that is "magically" the right length. They are trimming down to the length set on the stop ring.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 02:22
Anyhow a stop ring. I should have thought about that... thanks for the info!
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 08:53
For non-5.7x28 brass, I also use a 1:1 water/vinegar cleaning solution, I do this just to clean out all of the crap from the brass. I usually run it through a total of 5 cycles (8min each):VeTTeMaNC486 wrote:What are you using in it? I am using 1:1 ratio water/vinegar and I am not entirely pleased with the results. (they are clean but are not very shiny after a day or two.) They stay decently shiny if I let the dry on their own, but usually i toss them in the even for a bit because I want to load them not wait on them to dry.f3rr37 wrote:Welcome.MikeSantor wrote:Thanks man. I shell start cleaning my brass!
3 w/ cleaning solution
1 with a baking soda solution to neutralize the vinegar
1 with water to make sure everything is rinsed.
This gets the brass pretty clean, not sparkling, but clean enough for me. Then I'll trim/chamfer/debur and also run some steel wool on the outside and then they really shine nicely.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 10:42
Ok, Got brass now its time to order the first round of actual equipment. Picking up the Frankford Arsenal Quick-N-EZ Case Tumbler, some simple green, the RCBS Trim Pro with plate from ea and the spear loading manual.
In regards to cleaning, I know the Wiki mentioned the ultrasonic cleaner. HF has a 2.5 liter for 75 bucks. Do you use this in conjunction with something else like the arsenal tumbler or is it more less one or the other? If it is one or the other, Is there a general consensus on using something like the EZ tumbler compared to the ultrasonic cleaner? I have no problem buying both if it will be worth it.
Am I missing anything in the case prep stage? After this purchase I should have everything to get my cases ready to roll in the dillion 550b...
In regards to cleaning, I know the Wiki mentioned the ultrasonic cleaner. HF has a 2.5 liter for 75 bucks. Do you use this in conjunction with something else like the arsenal tumbler or is it more less one or the other? If it is one or the other, Is there a general consensus on using something like the EZ tumbler compared to the ultrasonic cleaner? I have no problem buying both if it will be worth it.
Am I missing anything in the case prep stage? After this purchase I should have everything to get my cases ready to roll in the dillion 550b...
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 10:56
I just use the ultrasonic cleaner. My experience with the tumblers is that they're noisy, and I'm living in an apartment, so it is kind of out of the question. The insides of my cases are still a bit dirty, but I'm still shooting sub MOA out of my Rem700 .308 (completely stock) @400-525 yards, so it doesn't bother me.MikeSantor wrote:Ok, Got brass now its time to order the first round of actual equipment. Picking up the Frankford Arsenal Quick-N-EZ Case Tumbler, some simple green, the RCBS Trim Pro which I am going to rig up to a drill and the spear loading manual.
In regards to cleaning, I know the Wiki mentioned the ultrasonic cleaner. HF has a 2.5 liter for 75 bucks. Do you use this in conjunction with something else like the arsenal tumbler or is it more less one or the other? If it is one or the other, Is there a general consensus on using something like the EZ tumbler compared to the ultrasonic cleaner? I have no problem buying both if it will be worth it.
Am I missing anything in the case prep stage? After this purchase I should have everything to get my cases ready to roll in the dillion 550b...
One thing about tumblers is that the media tends to leave a fine dust on the brass, and when you go to size the brass (this depends on if you size before or after cleaning) with lube, it makes a mess and the dies need to be cleaned way more often... that's just my experience anyway.
Here is how I used to process the brass I put in a tumbler (used my dad's):
Deprime
Tumble
Clean and remove the tumbling media from the flash holes
Size
Trim/chamfer/debur and polish with steel wool
Prime
Measure/throw charges
Seat bullet
Here is how I do it now with my ultrasonic cleaner:
Deprime/Size
Ultrasonic clean
Trim/chamfer/debur and polish with steel wool
Prime
Measure/throw charges
Seat bullet
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 11:11
Are you getting the tumbler for your other brass? With the 5.7 they are using the ultrasonic instead a tumbler to retain the lacquer coating. Or, at least, that is how I understood it
For trimming - did you get a 3-way cutter? It does the deburring/chamfering for you as you are trimming (although mine has been grabbing onto the brass as it is turning recently :wall:)
I would also recommend you get a collet type bullet puller with a .22 caliber collet. If you load something too hot then you can pull the bullets without really damaging them or losing the powder.
For trimming - did you get a 3-way cutter? It does the deburring/chamfering for you as you are trimming (although mine has been grabbing onto the brass as it is turning recently :wall:)
I would also recommend you get a collet type bullet puller with a .22 caliber collet. If you load something too hot then you can pull the bullets without really damaging them or losing the powder.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 11:11
Im assuming you dont HAVE to deprime before you clean? I say this because the Dillon 550b actually deprimes. So with the Dillon 550b the process would be:
Clean with tumbler or ultrasonic cleaner.
Lube
Trim/chamfer/debur
Then the dillon does the rest. Resizes/deprimes, etc etc.
Am I missing anything?
I also forgot im going to pick up that ABCs of reloading book everyone talks about. So im sure that will explain a lot.
Clean with tumbler or ultrasonic cleaner.
Lube
Trim/chamfer/debur
Then the dillon does the rest. Resizes/deprimes, etc etc.
Am I missing anything?
I also forgot im going to pick up that ABCs of reloading book everyone talks about. So im sure that will explain a lot.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 11:17
No you don't have to deprime before you clean (if your size die is what you deprime with, the die will get dirty or possibly dent the cases if you dont clean), but as was suggested earlier sometimes its nice to clean AFTER depriming as well to wash off case lube and help clean out the primer pocket some.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 11:19
Lube & deprime first then clean. You don't want that lube inside your cases when you drop the powder in. Also, this way it cleans your primer pockets as well. Plus, still having that lube on your casings is going gunk up you gun & chamber. The hassle with using the 550 on this round is why I use a single stage - well, its a hassle for me
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 11:27
I will be buying that 3 way cutter. And yes, the tumbler was going to be used for other brass as well.Rapier1772 wrote:Are you getting the tumbler for your other brass? With the 5.7 they are using the ultrasonic instead a tumbler to retain the lacquer coating. Or, at least, that is how I understood it
For trimming - did you get a 3-way cutter? It does the deburring/chamfering for you as you are trimming (although mine has been grabbing onto the brass as it is turning recently :wall:)
I would also recommend you get a collet type bullet puller with a .22 caliber collet. If you load something too hot then you can pull the bullets without really damaging them or losing the powder.
Got it. I just say the Dillon talking about depriming at one of the stations of the press so I thought it was always done at this step (this step being the actual loading process.)Grantness wrote:No you don't have to deprime before you clean (if your size die is what you deprime with, the die will get dirty or possibly dent the cases if you dont clean), but as was suggested earlier sometimes its nice to clean AFTER depriming as well to wash off case lube and help clean out the primer pocket some.
So to revise,Rapier1772 wrote:Lube & deprime first then clean. You don't want that lube inside your cases when you drop the powder in. Also, this way it cleans your primer pockets as well. Plus, still having that lube on your casings is going gunk up you gun & chamber. The hassle with using the 550 on this round is why I use a single stage - well, its a hassle for me
deprime
Lube
cut/debur/chamfer
clean
Then into the dillon it goes.
Am I getting it right? Its hard to visualize all this in your head when you dont have any of the stuff yet and have never loaded anything in your life...
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 12:12
The lube needs to be applied before you resize. Most sizing dies also deprime (aka decapping).
Lube
Deprime/resize
Clean or trim
Trim or clean
Lube
Deprime/resize
Clean or trim
Trim or clean
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 12:31
Now im confused.
Bah, Im getting conflicting steps with everything I am reading and watching on youtube with people using the 550B.
No more questions from me till I get my reloading books and read them cover to cover.
Thanks Guys.
Bah, Im getting conflicting steps with everything I am reading and watching on youtube with people using the 550B.
No more questions from me till I get my reloading books and read them cover to cover.
Thanks Guys.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 12:36
That's why I use a single stage press. I like to do things in steps, not all at the same time. :p
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 15:48
Problem with that is its great if you want to go slow and make real precise rounds but im looking to do this for plinking/range time ammo. Being a basically unemployed (worked about 20 days in the last year total) shooter, 40 cents a round for SS197 is still too much for just range time. Im looking for a way to make a decent amount of rounds in a decent time. If I could pump out 300 rounds an hour I would be tickled pink. From what i have read, you cant do this volume with a single stage press yet with something like the 550b you can work at a comfortable, relatively accurate pace and still push out 300 rounds an hour.f3rr37 wrote:That's why I use a single stage press. I like to do things in steps, not all at the same time. :p
You obviously all realize at this point all I can do is regurgitate what I have read off line. So please speak up if anything I am saying is way off the mark. Books will be here Friday. Then I can really get into this.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 17:00
If you're using a depriming only die and then a separate size die, do this:
Deprime
Clean
Lube
Size
Trim/Chamfer/Debur
Clean (optional, but suggested)
You MAY
Clean
Deprime
Lube
Size
Trim, etc
Clean (optional)
Deprime
Clean
Lube
Size
Trim/Chamfer/Debur
Clean (optional, but suggested)
You MAY
Clean
Deprime
Lube
Size
Trim, etc
Clean (optional)
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 17:06
Im going to end up going with your first option Grant. Only I wont be using a die for right now. Im going to see how slow it goes popping them out with a punch. I wanted to have the brass all ready to go by the time I got my press. So maybe Ill do the first big batch I have (4k+) by hand then get the die once I get the press.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 17:17
Do you have a shell holder at least? a punch may deform the brass a little if the base isn't supported.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 17:26
Ok bad idea. I seen other people popping out primers like nothing. this is defiantly not the case with mine.
Justin, I have nothing at this point but brass. I just placed an order for a few odds and ends but nothing real big. mostly books. I guess I will just slow down a little. Like I said before, My goal is to have everything by winter time. I just wanted to atleast have my brass all ready to go by the time I got my press...
Justin, I have nothing at this point but brass. I just placed an order for a few odds and ends but nothing real big. mostly books. I guess I will just slow down a little. Like I said before, My goal is to have everything by winter time. I just wanted to atleast have my brass all ready to go by the time I got my press...
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 17:34
I would wait and deprime them on the press. Don't rush into it. It doesn't take that long, plus you can resize at the same time.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 17:46
Just out of curiosity, how would this set up do? Im down to spend $60~ to get started on this...
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/40383-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/40424-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/56772-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ok Ill stop. Im a little excited.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/40383-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/40424-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/56772-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ok Ill stop. Im a little excited.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 17:57
That would work. Be sure to check local ads and yardsales. I picked up a rock chucker ages ago for 40 bucks, came with a pile of bullets too.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/de ... ber=261573" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; shellholder included.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/de ... ber=261573" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; shellholder included.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 18:01
*Ordering*
Thanks Justin.
Thanks Justin.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 18:11
The Lee hand press is VERY cheap. Lee also makes a kit w/ included dies (may be cheaper) that simply use a provided hammer to do all the work. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a depriming die for those. The Lee Challenger press (which I use for 5.7) is great because you can swap dies in seconds w/o having to mess with screwing them to the proper length each time...similar to Hornady Lock'nLoad. It's like $30-40 new. There's also an new Challenger cast press that's much much beefier...great for larger rifle calibers.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 18:13
When you get them, don't go all gung ho on it, deprime, clean, prime, and load up about 20-50 of them then go shoot them to make sure they function. You don't want to load a thousand rounds to catch a mistake at the range.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 18:13
The hand press sucks for doing anything more than 5 rounds, lol. Get the bench mounted press, you will thank me.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 18:19
I didn't mean for sizing tons of cases... I thought he was looking for something cheap to deprime with before he got his press (did you order a Dillon or did I imagine that?). W/ a simple depriming die it wouldnt take nearly as much energy to use the hand press. That being said, I've never used it so you would know more than me about that.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 18:21
I don't own one, I thought about it for a while to load target rounds at the range, until I tried one. Anyhoo, that press he is ordering is bench mounted and cheaper than the hand press kit. Can't go wrong with having a single stage around anyway.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 18:25
I edited my earlier post to recommend the Challenger breach lock press. It's cheaper than the Rock Chucker (although perhaps not as sturdy) but the Lock'nLoad type system its a huge advantage to not have to screw in the dies every time. Mute (sp?) point now if he's already placed the order...
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 18:27
Grant, I have NOT ordered the Dillon yet. My plan was to start ordering everything for reloading slowly. The goal was to have everything I need by winter. That being said, the first things I wanted to buy was all the stuff to get the brass ready since I already have a few thousand cases.
So I figured I would buy everything I would need for the brass up until the part where the brass goes into the Dillon. I.E. cleaning, trimming, etc, etc.
That way as soon as I do have everything I need I can rock and roll. First thing Im going to do is buy a small bag of 9mm and load that. Maybe 100 rounds or so just so I can learn the equipment and fundamentals and not blow my hand off. Then jump into the 5.7.
Edit, one more thing as to not confuse anyone. the Only reason I was looking at the single stage right now was for de priming. Again, for a total of 50 bucks or so I could get the single stage and de priming tool and at least get a jump on case prep.
So I figured I would buy everything I would need for the brass up until the part where the brass goes into the Dillon. I.E. cleaning, trimming, etc, etc.
That way as soon as I do have everything I need I can rock and roll. First thing Im going to do is buy a small bag of 9mm and load that. Maybe 100 rounds or so just so I can learn the equipment and fundamentals and not blow my hand off. Then jump into the 5.7.
Edit, one more thing as to not confuse anyone. the Only reason I was looking at the single stage right now was for de priming. Again, for a total of 50 bucks or so I could get the single stage and de priming tool and at least get a jump on case prep.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 18:29
Hey now, no raggin' on my hand press, I've loaded probably 2K rounds with it, besides, it gives you a pretty decent work out as well. 
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 18:32
I spend 5 days a week at one form of a gym or other. Im down to do it the lazy way...
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 18:42
MikeSantor wrote: The goal was to have everything I need by winter. That being said, the first things I wanted to buy was all the stuff to get the brass ready since I already have a few thousand cases.
You could always send some brass to me for case prep
I could also send you my own prepped cases for slightly more.Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 10 Aug 2011, 18:51
It takes forever. :pf3rr37 wrote:Hey now, no raggin' on my hand press, I've loaded probably 2K rounds with it, besides, it gives you a pretty decent work out as well.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 11 Aug 2011, 16:58
Anyone happen to have an extra Trim Pro Plate from EA they want to part with?
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 11 Aug 2011, 17:16
I think Jay might have an extra one laying around :laugh:MikeSantor wrote:Anyone happen to have an extra Trim Pro Plate from EA they want to part with?
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 11 Aug 2011, 17:19
Says on the site they are not taking orders for them...
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 11 Aug 2011, 17:29
Hmmm. Send them a PM, maybe you'll get lucky
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 13 Aug 2011, 13:38
So I got the ABCs or reloading yesterday. Read it twice. It has made things a lot clearer on all the steps and the different ways to do things.
I was curious. Does anyone have the Full Harnady LNL setup with the Bullet and case feeder? I have been watching videos on it and that thing really pumps out some ammo. I was curious how this works with the 5.7mm. I read from one of keymasters posts that priming and re sizing does not work on the LNL though. So all cases would have to be preped and sized. But once all that is done it is pretty much how fast you can load raw materials and pull levers...
Im starting to see a glimmer of hope that my poor butt may be able to shoot 5.7 on the weekly basis instead of once a month after I check for loose change in all the couches...
I was curious. Does anyone have the Full Harnady LNL setup with the Bullet and case feeder? I have been watching videos on it and that thing really pumps out some ammo. I was curious how this works with the 5.7mm. I read from one of keymasters posts that priming and re sizing does not work on the LNL though. So all cases would have to be preped and sized. But once all that is done it is pretty much how fast you can load raw materials and pull levers...
Im starting to see a glimmer of hope that my poor butt may be able to shoot 5.7 on the weekly basis instead of once a month after I check for loose change in all the couches...
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 13 Aug 2011, 19:34
Nothing wrong with the Lee Handpress as long as you don't over do it. More than enough for sizing 5.7 and pistol cases. .223 and .45-70 is fairly easy with it as well. I tried to use it for .50ae and thought I got the case stuck in the die. I will never try that again. Like to never have gotten it open.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 17 Aug 2011, 19:05
So what is everyone using for trimming besides the trim pro???
I got my lee press and decapper today. Not to bad of a set up. Got a couple hundred done. Got a couple thousand left...
I got my lee press and decapper today. Not to bad of a set up. Got a couple hundred done. Got a couple thousand left...
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 08:01
Just got off the phone with Hornady to get a LNL plate. The good news is he made an extra plate whenever the last order was placed, the bad news is it was a little more expensive than I thought. I thought they were like $119 shipped. I think my total came out to like $135 after shipping. Ahh well.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 26 Aug 2011, 21:07
Aren't you supposed to size seperately with that set up? I guess it doesn't matter if you are having to trim.MikeSantor wrote:Just got off the phone with Hornady to get a LNL plate. The good news is he made an extra plate whenever the last order was placed, the bad news is it was a little more expensive than I thought. I thought they were like $119 shipped. I think my total came out to like $135 after shipping. Ahh well.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 27 Aug 2011, 03:05
Vette, I really dont know as I am kind of flying off the seat of my pants. Never reloaded before. this is how I am doing it.
On singls stage:
Decap
Lube
resize
trim
clean primer pocket
clean
On LnL:
prime
charge
crimp
From all my research I believe this to be the correct order...
On singls stage:
Decap
Lube
resize
trim
clean primer pocket
clean
On LnL:
prime
charge
crimp
From all my research I believe this to be the correct order...
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 27 Aug 2011, 05:22
Might want to seat a bullet after chargingMikeSantor wrote:Vette, I really dont know as I am kind of flying off the seat of my pants. Never reloaded before. this is how I am doing it.
On singls stage:
Decap
Lube
resize
trim
clean primer pocket
clean
On LnL:
prime
charge
crimp
From all my research I believe this to be the correct order...
.Just messing with you. May I ask, how are you crimping?
And about the shell plate, it seems it has been posted before that the hornady LnL shellplate doesn't support the case enough (primer hole too big) and the case can get messed up. With the need to trim this caliber after basically every firing, I guess it doesn't matter.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 27 Aug 2011, 08:23
Bullets are too costly for my blood. I'm loading spitballs for practice.
As for crimping, Im getting a die that is made from Grantness. He moddifies a Lee crimp die to work on the 5.7.
As far as the lnl goes, I have heard conflicting stories. The keymaster says you just can not decap. Then I read another member who's name slips my mind, said he does everything on the lnl with no problems. Who knows. I guess ill find out soon.
As for crimping, Im getting a die that is made from Grantness. He moddifies a Lee crimp die to work on the 5.7.
As far as the lnl goes, I have heard conflicting stories. The keymaster says you just can not decap. Then I read another member who's name slips my mind, said he does everything on the lnl with no problems. Who knows. I guess ill find out soon.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 28 Aug 2011, 15:02
New to this forum, but not to volume shooting. I admit I've done far more pistol than rifle, but here is all I've done to successfully reload the 5.7:
Redding 2 die set
Hornady One Shot Spray
Single stage for now,rather than Dillon Progressive
RCBS powder measure
40 gr. V-Max bullet
Winchester AutoComp
The Redding dies are smooth and work well. Surprised how the bullet seating & crimp worked out (technique learned from Redding). Bottom line, all good (even without cleaning primer pocket). No case trimming to date after four reloads, just using Elite case gauge to tell me. Accuracy & reliability: excellent.
Redding 2 die set
Hornady One Shot Spray
Single stage for now,rather than Dillon Progressive
RCBS powder measure
40 gr. V-Max bullet
Winchester AutoComp
The Redding dies are smooth and work well. Surprised how the bullet seating & crimp worked out (technique learned from Redding). Bottom line, all good (even without cleaning primer pocket). No case trimming to date after four reloads, just using Elite case gauge to tell me. Accuracy & reliability: excellent.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 04 Sep 2011, 14:58
I've decided to use the new RCBS crimp remover tool (90386) in the case prep center. I can seat the primers w/o using it, but they seat easier, but still firmly seated, after crimp removal. And the primer will have a better seal in the case. I use a B&D cordless screwdriver and the Lee lock stud and cutter setup. I chamfer and debur on the case prep center with the new carbide tools.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 05 Sep 2011, 09:33
Heres a bit of data from a recent outing...
AutoComp in the PS90 is nearly un-touchable for consistency, smooth operation, and reliability in all of my testing - and all of these rounds came out of the Dillon, so it obviously meters well...
5.2-5.5 grs of AutoComp with a 40gr Vmax is my prefered 'sweet spot' in the charge range to pull the most consistency and reliability...
--------------
PS90 - Triple Rail
5.5 grs Autocomp
40 gr Vmax
CCI400
SS197 Brass
2280 fps Average
9 fps Standard Deviation
N=15
Notes: Very accurate, ridiculously consistent...
--------------
PS90 - Standard
5.5 grs Autocomp
40 gr Vmax
CCI400
SS197 Brass
2234 fps Average
10 fps Standard Deviation
N=20
Notes: New(er) gun than my TR, getting a little less velocity probably until it breaks in a bit more...
--------------
AutoComp in the PS90 is nearly un-touchable for consistency, smooth operation, and reliability in all of my testing - and all of these rounds came out of the Dillon, so it obviously meters well...
5.2-5.5 grs of AutoComp with a 40gr Vmax is my prefered 'sweet spot' in the charge range to pull the most consistency and reliability...
--------------
PS90 - Triple Rail
5.5 grs Autocomp
40 gr Vmax
CCI400
SS197 Brass
2280 fps Average
9 fps Standard Deviation
N=15
Notes: Very accurate, ridiculously consistent...
--------------
PS90 - Standard
5.5 grs Autocomp
40 gr Vmax
CCI400
SS197 Brass
2234 fps Average
10 fps Standard Deviation
N=20
Notes: New(er) gun than my TR, getting a little less velocity probably until it breaks in a bit more...
--------------
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 12 Oct 2011, 12:26
Grantness and all others. I suspect we could find a linear correlation between the bearing surface of a given projectile and the mass of the projectile. We already know two "sweet" spots in this function: SS195 and SS197. One possible complication is that the two bullets use different density cores. It appears to be all about a friction to mass relationship, no?
Many of the different bullets in the mid 30 grain wt. range appear to not work well in the blowback action because this relationship of bearing surface to mass does not allow the bullet to "tune" with the pressure cycle of the Fn pistol. Probably true for the rifle, have not gone there.
will think more on it, and maybe run some figure if I can.
Many of the different bullets in the mid 30 grain wt. range appear to not work well in the blowback action because this relationship of bearing surface to mass does not allow the bullet to "tune" with the pressure cycle of the Fn pistol. Probably true for the rifle, have not gone there.
will think more on it, and maybe run some figure if I can.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 19 Oct 2011, 09:55
im using the redding fl die, the shoulder looks nothing like the factory shoulder when i get done, are you guys getting the shoulders to return to their original shape?
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 26 Oct 2011, 20:22
iFire wrote:3 years of Various Physics, 2 years of BioChemistry, 4 years of Physical Chemistry and 2 years of Organic Chemistry - Im glad college is just a memory now for me...VeTTeMaNC486 wrote: We don't really learn much about that kinda stuff in my Electrical Engineering classes :laugh: . (Which I am finally starting to get into after taking so many freaking core classes/pre-reqs... 2 more years and counting...
iFire, if you do not mind, could you post a picture of the projectiles in question side by side (40gr vmax, 35gr nlf, 35gr nxt, and possibly the 28gr ss195), it would probably go well with our discussion.
Good luck with your final 2 years :p
Some where Nuclear Rocket Science is going to come inot play here and I'm going to fall back to STICKS and ROCKS :laugh: - but seriously - there is so much great info here, I find myself spnding days digesting -- so many great posts. Thanks to all - great pointers. :thumb:
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I have Lots of .224 bullets, including the few you mentioned - when i get the NTX's i will post a pic of as many of them as possible in a neat little line...
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 11 Nov 2011, 14:12
Best part about working for a construction company is when there is nothing to do, you get to build stuff.
Started my reloading bench. 1' thick MDF for the top with 1/16'' steel on the top. The will be a 1' deep cabinet and shelf across the back of it. Lets are getting made from 4''x 4'' green treated posts. All crap we have laying around the garage...
Started my reloading bench. 1' thick MDF for the top with 1/16'' steel on the top. The will be a 1' deep cabinet and shelf across the back of it. Lets are getting made from 4''x 4'' green treated posts. All crap we have laying around the garage...
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 16 Nov 2011, 21:01
looked at the Lee case trimmer system. Interesting, especially due to the possibility of using an electric drill to power the thing. Does anyone have some first hand experience using this system? I am concerned with the OAL changing with trash and such on the inside of the case at the primer flash hole. Most of my .308 cases have a a lot of "stuff" on the inside of the flash hole, and I suspect that would be a bad thing with this case.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 28 Apr 2012, 16:14
Max chamber pressure on PS90 is the same as the FsN right? (50KPSI)
When do mags start popping though? Anyone do tests on that for the PS90?
When do mags start popping though? Anyone do tests on that for the PS90?
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 28 Apr 2012, 22:01
Rapier1772 wrote:Max chamber pressure on PS90 is the same as the FsN right? (50KPSI)
When do mags start popping though? Anyone do tests on that for the PS90?
Some PS90's start popping at 38,ooo psi.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 28 Apr 2012, 22:10
Wow, that's lower that I thought. Thanks
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 28 Apr 2012, 22:26
Rapier1772 wrote:Wow, that's lower that I thought. Thanks
Older riveted stocks are worse. Add in the stocks with the mold defect and things go downhill fast.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 11:32
So, I'm reloading 40gr VMAX over longshot and I was using iFire's data, it has been performing great but I'm curious the opinion on if this looks like normal shoulder setback:
The case in the middle is a resized case as a reference. I've just read comments about shoulder separation and wanted to be sure I wasn't risking any issues before I loaded a couple hundred of them.
EDIT: I measured a resized case from the shoulder using a .28 comparator and the resized case was .932, the fired cases were in the .975-990 range. seems like a lot of movement to me, but I'm not sure how much is normal for this cartridge.
The case in the middle is a resized case as a reference. I've just read comments about shoulder separation and wanted to be sure I wasn't risking any issues before I loaded a couple hundred of them.
EDIT: I measured a resized case from the shoulder using a .28 comparator and the resized case was .932, the fired cases were in the .975-990 range. seems like a lot of movement to me, but I'm not sure how much is normal for this cartridge.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 13:58
Pretty normal. Shoulder movement will be greater even more when fired from P90/PS90
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 14:07
Those are fine. If the shoulder is about 1/2 way up the neck (more or less), that's when you should be concerned. But like Jay said, depends on the gun used (PS90/AR57/FsN/TC)
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 15:01
Yeah, this was with my PS90 so I guess I'm doing pretty well then. Time to ramp up the press! I have about 200 cleaned and trimmed cases waiting to go
Thinking I'll run 250 SS190s next, since I still have about 900 from my 1000 order. So many projectiles, so little time...
EDIT: is there a way to reduce the shoulder setback without affecting feed reliability, perhaps with a slightly stiffer recoil spring? I imagine if one was to be made it would be on EA's site, maybe I missed it... I think I saw there is a heavier weight for the bolt as well...
Thinking I'll run 250 SS190s next, since I still have about 900 from my 1000 order. So many projectiles, so little time...
EDIT: is there a way to reduce the shoulder setback without affecting feed reliability, perhaps with a slightly stiffer recoil spring? I imagine if one was to be made it would be on EA's site, maybe I missed it... I think I saw there is a heavier weight for the bolt as well...
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 21:49
We have both a heavier rate reducer and heavier springs. In this case I would leave the recoil springs alone! and go with the heavy duty rate reducer.
Oh Wise Grantness Loading Alliant Unique?
Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 15:20
Grantness, do you or any of your numerous followers have any data for Unique??
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 29 Oct 2014, 20:14
Grant hasn't dropped in for over a year unfortunately but from this thread: 5.7x28mm Reloading
Grantness wrote:The IMR powders are more than likely too slow... Unique is too fast.... Best powders I know of are HS7, True Blue, Blue Dot, Acc#7, VVN105, VV3N38, Longshot, and Alliant ProReach looks good so far, but Im still testing...
Browse the reloading subforum for more info. Try the search. Check out the forum wiki.
Re: 5.7x28 Random Reloading Discussions
Posted: 22 Jan 2017, 15:22
Recently worked up a decent subsonic 5.7x28 load for my AR-57 SBR (9" barrel) for use with my Gemtech SAR57 suppressor. Two powders worked pretty well, but case prep is a bear. Not an easy or quick round to reload. Used a single stage Hornady press I found on sale on Amazon. I do case cleaning one day (simple green/water soak and agitate for 10-15 min then water wash and dry), sizing and deprime second day, hand prime on third day and powder measure (with powder trickle by hand to get charges EXACT) and bullet seating on fourth day. Use Lee die set. I didn't crimp but Lee makes a crimper if you so need.
First:
Powder: True Blue 3.0 gr
Bullet: Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT
Case: once fired American Eagle
Primer: Winchester small pistol
COAL: 1.575
Second:
Powder: Power Pistol 2.8 gr
Bullet: Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT
Case: once fired American Eagle
Primer: Winchester small pistol
COAL: 1.575
The true blue is very fine grained compared to the round flakes of the power pistol. Both burn pretty clean and leave little residue with the TB being a little cleaner. These loads are just enough to cycle the heavy, heavy AR57 bolt (it's a simple blow back design) but remain subsonic through the 9" barrel. Be careful not to remove the case lacquer by tumbling them in case tumbler. However, I also apply a little dry lube spray to the rounds just before loading into the FN 50rd mags to help feeding. Seems to help a little.
As always: Use these loads @ your own risk.
First:
Powder: True Blue 3.0 gr
Bullet: Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT
Case: once fired American Eagle
Primer: Winchester small pistol
COAL: 1.575
Second:
Powder: Power Pistol 2.8 gr
Bullet: Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT
Case: once fired American Eagle
Primer: Winchester small pistol
COAL: 1.575
The true blue is very fine grained compared to the round flakes of the power pistol. Both burn pretty clean and leave little residue with the TB being a little cleaner. These loads are just enough to cycle the heavy, heavy AR57 bolt (it's a simple blow back design) but remain subsonic through the 9" barrel. Be careful not to remove the case lacquer by tumbling them in case tumbler. However, I also apply a little dry lube spray to the rounds just before loading into the FN 50rd mags to help feeding. Seems to help a little.
As always: Use these loads @ your own risk.