5.7mm pocket pistol?

Discuss the FN Five-seveN line of pistols and accessories.

Moderator: blueorison

Post Reply
Valorius
Banned
Posts: 615
Joined: 02 Apr 2010, 17:32
custom title: 5.7 proponent

5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by Valorius » 07 Apr 2010, 15:13

Hello all. I've been reviewing all the available info on 5.7mm ammo and terminal performance, and i think i'm going to convert my 5.56mm AR carbine into a 5.7mm AR-57, and sell my HK P7 9mm and buy a FN Five Seven.

My question is, does anyone know of any companies that offer a 5.7mm conversion kit for any of the popular pocket pistols on the market today? If not...someone should! :)

It would be nice to have one cartridge that literally "does it all."

Grantness
Senior Member
Posts: 4728
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 09:13
Location: Virginia

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by Grantness » 07 Apr 2010, 16:41

This has been discussed before...

Keltec may have been considering such a project, but no word yet.

The problem w/ a FsN pocket pistol is that you cant shorten the barrel too much before you start losing performance. Factory ammo is already watered down enough in the FsN; EA ammo or reloads would be needed to get sufficient performance out of a ~4-4.5 inch barrel. Also, the round itself is quite long and requires a long/wide grip. The magazine well could be shortened, as im sure 12-15 rounds would still be plenty for a pocket pistol. To improve "concealability", I dont think barrel length is as much an issue as is the length of the grip.

murphies_finest
Senior Member
Posts: 794
Joined: 21 Aug 2008, 05:23
custom title: King Thread Killer.
Location: At Your Uncles Sisters House

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by murphies_finest » 08 Apr 2010, 06:23

maybe a 57 derringer
Keep Working Millions on Welfare Depend on YOU.

User avatar
Rapier1772
Global Moderator
Posts: 12938
Joined: 20 Aug 2008, 09:00
Location: Benton City, WA

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by Rapier1772 » 08 Apr 2010, 16:42

A 5.7 shoe gun!
How to post pics & videos: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6363
Contrary to popular belief, you CAN fix stupid - it's just illegal.

s-industries
Gold Member
Posts: 288
Joined: 19 Nov 2008, 20:31
custom title: M.E.
Location: Nac

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by s-industries » 08 Apr 2010, 17:30

Man, if I had SolidWorks or ProE I would have at least two designs for an FsNc...wherein the 'c' stands for compact :)

PainKillaX
Senior Member
Posts: 3201
Joined: 08 Nov 2009, 21:01

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by PainKillaX » 08 Apr 2010, 17:33

I think someone said "5.7 Deringer" earlier. Man, that would be fun.

murphies_finest
Senior Member
Posts: 794
Joined: 21 Aug 2008, 05:23
custom title: King Thread Killer.
Location: At Your Uncles Sisters House

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by murphies_finest » 09 Apr 2010, 05:07

PainKillaX wrote:I think someone said "5.7 Deringer" earlier. Man, that would be fun.
I had said PKX I think it would be pretty slick! set it up like the police backup 357 deringer "pepper boxes" with the 4 barrels.
Keep Working Millions on Welfare Depend on YOU.

Grantness
Senior Member
Posts: 4728
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 09:13
Location: Virginia

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by Grantness » 09 Apr 2010, 05:40

might be cool, but like I said...the barrel will need to be at least ~4 inches long.

GONRA
Junior Member
Posts: 248
Joined: 25 Feb 2010, 14:33

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by GONRA » 09 Apr 2010, 13:23

Since everyone seems to want to shoot
“+P+ Red Blooded American Handloader” handloads,
GONRA suggests what is SORELY NEEDED is a LOCKED BREECH handgun
otherwise similar to than the FN - maybe a little heavier.

Then load the 5.7x28 FN cartridge with Small Rifle MILITARY primers (thicker cups)
to properly operate at the 55,000 PSI (CUP) pressures.

Uncrate your 20mm Solothurn S18-1000 Anti Tank Cannon and note the Stange
rotating sleeve locking system.
A variant of this
(Stange rotating sleeve THREADED onto barrel ahead of chamber, locking into slide)
would be perfect for our small bore 5.7x28 FN cartridge in a handgun.
Careful thread mount PITCH selection provides a
dynamite el cheapo “primary extraction” too.

Bear in mind that with the self loading firearms we are used to shootin’, items such as
“cartridge case / chamber wall friction force” and “axial strength of the cartridge case”
are secondary items (WAY down the list) that govern the self loading mechanical operation.

Current retarded blowback FN pistol is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT BALL GAME.
“Cartridge case / chamber wall friction force” and “axial strength of the cartridge case”
ARE THE MAIN OPERATING CONSIDERATIONS!!!

WATCHOUT +P+ Red Blooded American Handloaders!!!

Grantness
Senior Member
Posts: 4728
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 09:13
Location: Virginia

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by Grantness » 09 Apr 2010, 14:26

There are lots of locked breech hand guns being produced right now. That might work. The CZ52 (among others) has rollers that allow it to take very high pressure rounds (if Im no mistaken)....but it is heavy. There's a new Russian pistol (sorry, the name eludes me) that is being advertised as a russian combat pistol that can penetrate soft armor w/ high pressure loads from standard caliber cartridges (i think 9mm) and special hardened bullet cores. I think it uses a similar mechanism to the cz52.

somebody stop me if im completely thinking of something else...

s-industries
Gold Member
Posts: 288
Joined: 19 Nov 2008, 20:31
custom title: M.E.
Location: Nac

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by s-industries » 09 Apr 2010, 17:41

How about cutting the gun off even with the rail? Will that keep enough barrel length for reasonable performance? Also, if the rail were removable it would make it easier to carry. I was planning on leaving the action as it is...if it will still work on the smaller version. I'm trying to narrow the gun to the current width of the front part of the slide, with single stack mags and a 1911 style trigger. I'm just having a little trouble drawing precise components with my crayons :facepalm:

Valorius
Banned
Posts: 615
Joined: 02 Apr 2010, 17:32
custom title: 5.7 proponent

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by Valorius » 09 Apr 2010, 18:40

I don't see 4" as a necessary minimum.

There are loads of pocket pistols that have a barrel that is grossly mis-matched to the caliber/cartridge of the weapon.

Like all these .22 and .17 mags, and the .410 snub nose revolvers, etc, etc.

I would rather have a 2" 5.7x28mm than a 2" .22 or .17 magnum, that's for sure.

That being said, the HK P7 has a 4.1" barrel and is virtually identical in dimensions to the new Walther PK-380 .380 and Walther PPS 9mm, so it would very much be possible to greatly reduce the size of the current Five Seven (or better yet, introduce an entirely new platform intended from the ground up to be a subcompact)

User avatar
panzermk2
Forum Supporter
Posts: 12377
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 15:51
Location: Pr. CEO Elite Ammunition
Contact:

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by panzermk2 » 10 Apr 2010, 09:27

The issue is the recoil impulse. It is VERY high but very short. On a locked breach you destroy the breach face and yet not have enough residual energy to cycle the side and action. This was discovered the hard way many years ago with the BOZ round.

The solution is an aluminum framed FsN with a heavier recoil spring and hammer spring. This will hold the action closed long enough to allow the pressure to drop to a safe level and cycle the action.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition

"Engineers, the oompa-loompas of science!"

Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz
Image

Valorius
Banned
Posts: 615
Joined: 02 Apr 2010, 17:32
custom title: 5.7 proponent

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by Valorius » 10 Apr 2010, 20:42

I mentioned the HK P7 because of it's unique and highly successful gas retarded blow back system, for which all the patents have no doubt by now expired.

I suspect that might solve the 5.7x28mm's "issues" in short barreled guns.

Grantness
Senior Member
Posts: 4728
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 09:13
Location: Virginia

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by Grantness » 11 Apr 2010, 05:54

panzermk2 wrote:The issue is the recoil impulse. It is VERY high but very short. On a locked breach you destroy the breach face and yet not have enough residual energy to cycle the side and action. This was discovered the hard way many years ago with the BOZ round.

The solution is an aluminum framed FsN with a heavier recoil spring and hammer spring. This will hold the action closed long enough to allow the pressure to drop to a safe level and cycle the action.
I cant tell you how cool that would be. Im almost afraid such a gun would permanetly damage your ears if you ever had to use it in self-defense w/o hearing protection. I get ringing in my ears frequently after shooting reloads WITH hearing protection. ...and of course, if anyone wanted a smaller barrel thats another thing to keep in mind. It will be MUCH louder and the flash will be larger, possibly causing some disorientation.

Right now, as far as concealability goes...I dont have much of a problem with the FsN's size except for maybe the mag well length. The light weight makes up for some of the size issues. The issue I keep having (partially b/c I dont like to use a holster...I feel like holsters add more to conceal) is that it is a difficult weapon to draw b/c of that massive front sight. Also, its almost impossible to draw in a reasonable amount of time if you've added a laser. If a new frame or slide was being designed from the ground up, I think it would be nice to have space for an integrated laser so it can't catch on things.

s-industries
Gold Member
Posts: 288
Joined: 19 Nov 2008, 20:31
custom title: M.E.
Location: Nac

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by s-industries » 11 Apr 2010, 10:44

Grant, I'm with you on the integrated laser. My plan is to have a the dust cover shaped like most guns, only instead of containing a recoil rod/spring it will contain the laser. I just haven't decided how I want to actuate it.

I will also have provisions for easy adjustment of trigger take-up and over-travel. I'm a smaller guy so I am working at reducing the FsN size in every area, but overall height is a primary focus. A simple redesign of the trigger guard (to fit with my 1911 style trigger) will allow the hand to sit higher on the gun. Then I can easily trim a little length off the bottom. I planned on an aluminum frame in the first place just because It seems more likely that I could have something machined than molded.

I'm trying to get my brother to go in half with me on Pro/E...if he does I'll start design work pronto.

Valorius
Banned
Posts: 615
Joined: 02 Apr 2010, 17:32
custom title: 5.7 proponent

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by Valorius » 11 Apr 2010, 11:11

Grantness wrote:
panzermk2 wrote:The issue is the recoil impulse. It is VERY high but very short. On a locked breach you destroy the breach face and yet not have enough residual energy to cycle the side and action. This was discovered the hard way many years ago with the BOZ round.

The solution is an aluminum framed FsN with a heavier recoil spring and hammer spring. This will hold the action closed long enough to allow the pressure to drop to a safe level and cycle the action.
I cant tell you how cool that would be. Im almost afraid such a gun would permanetly damage your ears if you ever had to use it in self-defense w/o hearing protection. I get ringing in my ears frequently after shooting reloads WITH hearing protection. ...and of course, if anyone wanted a smaller barrel thats another thing to keep in mind. It will be MUCH louder and the flash will be larger, possibly causing some disorientation.

Right now, as far as concealability goes...I dont have much of a problem with the FsN's size except for maybe the mag well length. The light weight makes up for some of the size issues. The issue I keep having (partially b/c I dont like to use a holster...I feel like holsters add more to conceal) is that it is a difficult weapon to draw b/c of that massive front sight. Also, its almost impossible to draw in a reasonable amount of time if you've added a laser. If a new frame or slide was being designed from the ground up, I think it would be nice to have space for an integrated laser so it can't catch on things.
Honestly, in high pressure situations, you don't even notice the flash or or the blast until -after- the emergency is over. Ask any troop that's ever fought in a CQB environment (I have, but only in MOUT training, and even in training, when the adrenaline is pumping, it's a non issue. I've fired off belt after belt of 7.62mm blanks in a small room and it didn't even faze me at the time.)

At my size (5'7"), the FN is just way too big to carry concealed. I rarely even carry my P7. My 99% of the time carry gun is my Ruger LCP.

Grantness
Senior Member
Posts: 4728
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 09:13
Location: Virginia

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by Grantness » 11 Apr 2010, 11:17

even in the dark?

Valorius
Banned
Posts: 615
Joined: 02 Apr 2010, 17:32
custom title: 5.7 proponent

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by Valorius » 11 Apr 2010, 22:08

In the dark you can't see squat anyway, if anything a big muzzle flash gives you a momentary glimpse of what you're shooting at. Like a strobe light, i guess.

Of course a big muzzle flash can also get you killed cause it gives the other guy something to shoot at. Then again, an M-60 or whatever else rocking and rolling at night also tends to get people's heads down too. People are terrified to begin with in gunfights from what i gather, so a big muzzle flash and blast might actually help you to suppress the BG's fire or cause him to flee. Then again...it might not. ;)

Like many things in life, it "depends" if it's an advantage or disadvantage.

I had a mag-na-ported S&W 9mm with Trijicon night sights that i used to use to dazzle my uncles old timer buddies at their hunting camp at night time by plinking beer cans that would be totally impossible to hit without night sights. The mag-na-porting exhaust gas jets are not really even noticeable to the shooter, but they look mighty impressive to bystanders.

I really view muzzle blast/flash to be a very minor issue in a CCW or home defense weapon. But if i were to let it affect my decision making process i would probably be of the view that more blast/flash in a home defense gun would just scare the living bejesus out of the BG, and probably make them dump in their pants if you onloaded on them with a short barreled AR or something of the sort. :D

Afterwards you will be all disoriented and your ears will be ringing and all that, but they'd be ringing even if you were shooting a .38 snubbie, and you're going to be all disoriented from the stress of the event too, probably. I just feel like my ears ringing are the least of my concerns if i was just forced to use a firearm to defend my life.

Synthetic
Junior Member
Posts: 42
Joined: 05 Mar 2010, 14:55

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by Synthetic » 13 Apr 2010, 13:19

Valorius wrote:Hello all. I've been reviewing all the available info on 5.7mm ammo and terminal performance, and i think i'm going to convert my 5.56mm AR carbine into a 5.7mm AR-57, and sell my HK P7 9mm and buy a FN Five Seven.

My question is, does anyone know of any companies that offer a 5.7mm conversion kit for any of the popular pocket pistols on the market today? If not...someone should! :)

It would be nice to have one cartridge that literally "does it all."
How much do you want for your HK P7?

Valorius
Banned
Posts: 615
Joined: 02 Apr 2010, 17:32
custom title: 5.7 proponent

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by Valorius » 14 Apr 2010, 20:52

Here's a couple pictures of it.

Image

Image

Image

Make me an offer. (with or without the one of a kind Burris Fastfire II and mount. :)

gjeto
Junior Member
Posts: 2
Joined: 16 Apr 2010, 04:42

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by gjeto » 16 Apr 2010, 04:49

and how about boberg system guns? i think that w. be nice cc pistol.
here is the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-DATym2 ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Valorius
Banned
Posts: 615
Joined: 02 Apr 2010, 17:32
custom title: 5.7 proponent

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by Valorius » 16 Apr 2010, 10:30

I was just looking at those the other day. Very complex operating system, but also extremely compact as well.

2ndAMVa
Member
Posts: 266
Joined: 17 Nov 2009, 16:41
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by 2ndAMVa » 02 Jun 2011, 06:58

I'm not tall and I have a slight build. I'm able to easily conceals an FN 5.7 with a holster I made because I designed it to make the long and thick grip to hug very close to the body, canted at the right angle, carried at 4 o'clock with a light jacket and even a loose t-shit or sport shirt that is colored or thick enough not to see through. It is the grip that one needs to pay attention to.

Since I make my own holsters (I'm not a commercial holster maker...I have a good day job, but leather work is my favorite hobby), I was able to design a holster that works for me. A friend of mine who is tall and heftier tried my holster, and the concealability was even better.

It's all mainly in the holster and partially type/material of outside clothing.

I enjoy carrying the lighter FN 5.7 over my 1911 full size steel pistols (that want to pull my pants down with the weight).

With the right holster, if you can conceal a 5" 1911, you can just as easily conceal an FN 5.7.

My favorite concealed carry pair : FN 5.7 in a concealed holster, and a Kahr PM9 in a pocket holster as backup. Very few scenarios that I can't cover with that combination, or one of the two.

2ndAMVa
Member
Posts: 266
Joined: 17 Nov 2009, 16:41
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by 2ndAMVa » 02 Jun 2011, 07:13

Oh yes, when there is company around the house and yard, I sometimes carry the HK P7...only because it is the only gun design that goes from VERY SAFE to SINGLE-ACTION DEADLY in an instant (squeeze-cocking). It adds an extra margin of safety in a domestic environment where there are varied and multi-tasking activities (my wife's to-do list for me) and distractions (dog, children, doorbell, etch..).

But my favorite CCW pair are still the FN 5.7 and Kahr PM9.

Except when I'm hunting with a bow or muzzleloader where there may be bears...then, I take my 4" 44 magnum Mountain Gun (S&W), loaded with Garrett Hammerheads that can give one a heck of a carpal tunnel wrist problem.

I've been surprised by the versatility of the FN 5.7 (the latest, is the clever bipod attachment), but I cannot conceive of it as a Bear-defense gun. I would not trust my ability to shoot a bear in the eyes with a 5.7 while he's charging at me. I've never been that type of a gambling man. yes, I've heard of true accounts of bears killed when shot in the eye through the brain with a .22, but the odds for me would be slim to none.

Maybe if EA can conjure an exploding grenade bullet or a bullet with an instant-acting nerve poison...but that's simply daydreaming.

GONRA
Junior Member
Posts: 248
Joined: 25 Feb 2010, 14:33

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by GONRA » 02 Jun 2011, 13:26

gjeto mentioned:
"and how about boberg system guns? "

GONRA is on BOBERG's list 'cause its a
Really Crazy Item for my Reference Collection.
If they really PRODUCE and SELL ,
will eventually have one to testfire and report back.
Don't hold yer breath on this one...

GONRA
Junior Member
Posts: 248
Joined: 25 Feb 2010, 14:33

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by GONRA » 29 Sep 2011, 13:32

GONRA's Boberg will be shipped in 9 weeks.
Will testfire and report back.

User avatar
panzermk2
Forum Supporter
Posts: 12377
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 15:51
Location: Pr. CEO Elite Ammunition
Contact:

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by panzermk2 » 29 Sep 2011, 14:05

I am watching the animation of their feed mechanism.

Damn if I have not seen that before. I have and it's driving me crazy since I can't remember where. I think is was some form of auto feeder on a tanks main gun.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition

"Engineers, the oompa-loompas of science!"

Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz
Image

User avatar
blueorison
Competition/Training Mod
Posts: 10672
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 14:28
custom title: UT/EA Pistol Captain
Contact:

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by blueorison » 29 Sep 2011, 22:55

GONRA wrote:GONRA's Boberg will be shipped in 9 weeks.
Will testfire and report back.
Congrats, GONRA.

I was going to be order #69 :)

I couldn't afford it, so I requested that he skip me. I'm still on the list for the full-sized. Were you part of the first or second order release?

I was one of the early-birds to support his ideas, and he is an ingenious and honest engineer. And a very nice person!
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

GONRA
Junior Member
Posts: 248
Joined: 25 Feb 2010, 14:33

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by GONRA » 30 Sep 2011, 13:48

GONRA's Boberg appears to be the "second production run" of some kind.
(Didn't pay much attention to these details.
Its just such a CRAZY addition to my Junqe Pyle.)
Am getting confused on Boberg shipping - might be in a few days
instead of 9 weeks? ???
Looks like 90% of their back order list "chickened out" when $$$ are required?
Not sure of this either - difficult to sort it all out from their web site! ???
DO NOT get involved in the Social Network part of Boberg's web site.
(Unless you wanna make "some new girl friends".) Watchout!

User avatar
blueorison
Competition/Training Mod
Posts: 10672
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 14:28
custom title: UT/EA Pistol Captain
Contact:

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by blueorison » 30 Sep 2011, 19:02

I hope he removes those who backed out off of his Fullsized pistol preorder list.

It's expected that people will flake out. They always do.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

GONRA
Junior Member
Posts: 248
Joined: 25 Feb 2010, 14:33

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by GONRA » 19 Nov 2011, 13:15

GONRA received the 9mm XR9-S Boberg pistol a few days ago.
An authentic “mechanical marvel” fellas! First class fabrication.
From their website http://www.bobergarms.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; looks like its “taking off” as a “gun to buy”.

Shot several 5 round filled magazines of my usual 9mm Elderly Luger handloads also
hotter UZI Full Auto Blasting handloads. (OOPS! There goes the Factory Warrenty!)
Frequently hadan issue with “first round chambering”
(just hit slide with left hand to complete chambering)
that probably is a “breaking in” or “be careful to do the right thing” dealie
that I haven’t completely mastered yet.

You tough guys will have to supply any Rambo Type “evaluation”
with +P (and worse) ammo, special holsters, concealment issues, laser sights,
flash lites, potential for a Full Auto Switch, etc.

Have fun with your shiny new Boberg’s fellas! Get ‘em whilst ya’ll can!
Looks like Boberg Arms will “buck history” and continue on to a huge success!
(Startup gun ventures CAN vaporize overnite!) (Remember AUTOMAG?)

Meanwhile, will have lottsa fun verkin’ on the First Round Chambering issue,
checking over my Prize Winning Handloads for free chambering, etc..

nrv216
Member
Posts: 449
Joined: 09 Jun 2011, 18:23

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by nrv216 » 19 Nov 2011, 21:08

panzermk2 wrote:I am watching the animation of their feed mechanism.

Damn if I have not seen that before. I have and it's driving me crazy since I can't remember where. I think is was some form of auto feeder on a tanks main gun.
taken from their website:

These type of mechanisms had been successfully used in past weapons, but only in machine guns designed by Hiram Maxim, John M. Browning and others. The famous Browning 1919 machine gun is an example of a very reliable weapon of war using a pull-back feed mechanism. The first attempt at pull-back feeding in a pistol was done in the Mars pistol, just before the turn of the 20th century.

Is that what you were thinking of?

nrv216

User avatar
panzermk2
Forum Supporter
Posts: 12377
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 15:51
Location: Pr. CEO Elite Ammunition
Contact:

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by panzermk2 » 20 Nov 2011, 14:14

nrv216 wrote:
panzermk2 wrote:I am watching the animation of their feed mechanism.

Damn if I have not seen that before. I have and it's driving me crazy since I can't remember where. I think is was some form of auto feeder on a tanks main gun.
taken from their website:

These type of mechanisms had been successfully used in past weapons, but only in machine guns designed by Hiram Maxim, John M. Browning and others. The famous Browning 1919 machine gun is an example of a very reliable weapon of war using a pull-back feed mechanism. The first attempt at pull-back feeding in a pistol was done in the Mars pistol, just before the turn of the 20th century.

Is that what you were thinking of?

nrv216
No those above are to general and can be applied to any machine gun. No there is something in the specific details that remind me of a down sized design.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition

"Engineers, the oompa-loompas of science!"

Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz
Image

GONRA
Junior Member
Posts: 248
Joined: 25 Feb 2010, 14:33

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by GONRA » 07 Dec 2011, 14:23

GONRA’s following up on the Boberg pistol mentioned previously.
>> 3 important items below: <<

>> Item #1. <<
Field stripped pistol and reassembled with Molycoat (purchased decades ago)
(Molybdenum disulfide MoS2 ) grease at all key heavy duty sliding friction points.
As you know, this grease is Very Dirty.
NOT recommended for Stalwarts who carry or eyeballers who want the pistol to Remain Pretty.

Modern pistols frequently have stainless steel or aluminum alloy parts that can gall like crazy
if NOT lubed PROPERLY.
Many high priced CLEAR LIQUID “anti-galling” greases are available.
BUT - have no idea which ones Really Verk. !!!
Would appreciate any lube guy out there who can responsibily comment on these Modern Lubes.
(Long ago, contacted old Lubrication Consultant guy at work when I got my .44 AMP Auto Mag.
He said MoS2 is the time honored “anti-galling” grease” to use for stainless-on-stainless, etc.)

>> Item #2. <<
Practiced cocking Boberg pistol robustly –
jerking back slide as fast as possible to a definite clunk stop.
Website sez this is Very Important to reliably chamber the first round from the magazine.
(Just Like your Steyr AUG! !!!)
Ended up gymasticating Boberg action about a zillion times to verk in MoS2 particles
into sliding surfaces.

>> Item #3: <<
Used fresh commercial Winchester 115 grain Q4173 and
American Eagle 147 grain AE9FP ammo.

Shootin’ Results - incorporating all three items:

Mechanically complex Boberg action functions SMOOOTH as butter.
Loads, functions, shoots PERFECTLY!

Have no idea which of the 3 items are important.
Probably ALL THREE? ???

FNtacticalNUT
Junior Member
Posts: 133
Joined: 10 Nov 2011, 13:47
custom title: GOOD ole VIRGINIA
Location: Charlottesville VA

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by FNtacticalNUT » 07 Dec 2011, 18:18

Well if KEL-TEC is interested count me out. They suck. They mislead us to believe they are great. But when the proof is in the puddin they do not deliever. Where are all of the PMR30's they promised. Even though it is a piece of crap. But none the less where are all of those KSG shotguns. They are only opened from Mon-FRI from 10am -3 pm with a lunch.
What a company!!!!!

User avatar
blueorison
Competition/Training Mod
Posts: 10672
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 14:28
custom title: UT/EA Pistol Captain
Contact:

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by blueorison » 07 Dec 2011, 19:59

GONRA wrote:GONRA’s following up on the Boberg pistol mentioned previously.
>> 3 important items below: <<

>> Item #1. <<
Field stripped pistol and reassembled with Molycoat (purchased decades ago)
(Molybdenum disulfide MoS2 ) grease at all key heavy duty sliding friction points.
As you know, this grease is Very Dirty.
NOT recommended for Stalwarts who carry or eyeballers who want the pistol to Remain Pretty.

Modern pistols frequently have stainless steel or aluminum alloy parts that can gall like crazy
if NOT lubed PROPERLY.
Many high priced CLEAR LIQUID “anti-galling” greases are available.
BUT - have no idea which ones Really Verk. !!!
Would appreciate any lube guy out there who can responsibily comment on these Modern Lubes.
(Long ago, contacted old Lubrication Consultant guy at work when I got my .44 AMP Auto Mag.
He said MoS2 is the time honored “anti-galling” grease” to use for stainless-on-stainless, etc.)

>> Item #2. <<
Practiced cocking Boberg pistol robustly –
jerking back slide as fast as possible to a definite clunk stop.
Website sez this is Very Important to reliably chamber the first round from the magazine.
(Just Like your Steyr AUG! !!!)
Ended up gymasticating Boberg action about a zillion times to verk in MoS2 particles
into sliding surfaces.

>> Item #3: <<
Used fresh commercial Winchester 115 grain Q4173 and
American Eagle 147 grain AE9FP ammo.

Shootin’ Results - incorporating all three items:

Mechanically complex Boberg action functions SMOOOTH as butter.
Loads, functions, shoots PERFECTLY!

Have no idea which of the 3 items are important.
Probably ALL THREE? ???
Who knows? Too many variables. Could be combinations of some, etc. From experience, don't mess with what works!!!
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

GONRA
Junior Member
Posts: 248
Joined: 25 Feb 2010, 14:33

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by GONRA » 23 Mar 2014, 05:04

Looong ago: gjeto mentioned:
"and how about boberg system guns? "
GONRA's .45 ACP Boberg should be shipped in June, 2014.

JoJo
Member
Posts: 397
Joined: 07 Nov 2011, 09:07

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by JoJo » 25 Mar 2014, 08:36

Old topic but I just reread the whole thread. I still lust for a 5.7 pocket gun. Something on the order of the NAA Black Widow!

I have practiced quite a bit with my Black Widow and the single action has become instinctive. A four round single action 5.5 revolver would mandate an immediate purchase. BTW, A 4" barrel would be manageable.

GONRA
Junior Member
Posts: 248
Joined: 25 Feb 2010, 14:33

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by GONRA » 12 Jul 2014, 13:15

GONRA's .45 ACP Boberg should/may be in the first batch of the couple dozen pictured on Boberg's Arms' website.
These will be shipped Monday July 14, 2014. We'll see.....

GONRA
Junior Member
Posts: 248
Joined: 25 Feb 2010, 14:33

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by GONRA » 02 Dec 2015, 08:52

Boberg pistols have been mentioned occasionally on this site.
Bond Arms recently purchased Boberg Arms.
(Am sure Bond is a fine outfit, but GONRA is really sad to see Boberg go....)
Will be interesting to see exactly "what happens now", etc....
One way or another, am sure glad I the Bobergs while originals were available!

CPTKILLER
Junior Member
Posts: 123
Joined: 12 Jul 2009, 18:37
custom title: CPT Killer
Location: Austin, Texas

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by CPTKILLER » 19 Dec 2015, 07:57

I carried my FiveSeven concealed but honestly it is too large for comfortable concealed carry in most situations. I would welcome and accurate & reliable FiveSeven for concealed carry in Texas. A good example to look at is the CZ 2075 Rami (http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-2075-rami- ... 4-rd-mags/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

GONRA
Junior Member
Posts: 248
Joined: 25 Feb 2010, 14:33

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by GONRA » 03 Jun 2017, 13:55

GONRA' s "Bond Arms Bullpup" (Bond mfg 9mm Boberg) is in UPS transit now.
(Fellow Fanatics call it a "9MM Bondbery") will arrive here (LGS) 06/05/2017.
Plan to blast away with commercial Winchesrter White Box 9mm ammo first before testing my Prize Winning 9mm Handloads.

My ORIGINAL BOBERG MFG 9mm and .45 ACP pistols will probably end up as "Safe Queens".
If the 9mm "Bondberg" "verks gud", will encouage 'em to mfg a .45 ACP "Bondberg".

GONRA
Junior Member
Posts: 248
Joined: 25 Feb 2010, 14:33

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by GONRA » 03 Jun 2017, 13:55

GONRA' s "Bond Arms Bullpup" (Bond mfg 9mm Boberg) is in UPS transit now.
(Fellow Fanatics call it a "9MM Bondberg") will arrive here (LGS) 06/05/2017.
Plan to blast away with commercial Winchester White Box 9mm ammo first before testing my Prize Winning 9mm Handloads.

My ORIGINAL BOBERG MFG 9mm and .45 ACP pistols will probably end up as "Safe Queens".
If the 9mm "Bondberg" "verks gud", will encouage 'em to mfg a .45 ACP "Bondberg".

User avatar
blueorison
Competition/Training Mod
Posts: 10672
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 14:28
custom title: UT/EA Pistol Captain
Contact:

Re: 5.7mm pocket pistol?

Post by blueorison » 03 Jun 2017, 15:38

Ah, I was about to say that I remembered you had a (or a couple, it seems) Bobergs, already.

Been a fan of the concept since day 1... I believe it was 2008 back when. I followed up regularly with Arne and he was quite responsive, especially for his position.

I saw that Bond Arms purchased them and are adding some "upgrades", namely a coating and some "redesigns".

Hope that it cost a lot less now and that it works flawlessly! Although, since the G43 came out, it has lessened the appeal for me...but the velocity obviously is much better with the Boberg.

If they made one in 5.7 ... I don't know... even with that length of barrel, I'm not sure it would be effective; as it is, the main edge that the FsN has over conventional 9mm carry guns is a longer effective range, improved trajectory, accuracy potential, and most importantly, penetration of hard/armored targets with the solid rounds.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests